Kitty 7/17 & 7/18 TID

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kse

kse

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7/16 First TID cycle

MDPS 397 shot 3 units
+3 325
+5 304
+6 308
+7 315

pmps 332
+2 ate
+ 4 272

7/17
amps 302 shot 3 units
+3 fluids
+4 276

7/17
mdps 364 shot 3.5 units fed 7 percent carb low fat
+2 271
+5 271
+8 597 ?????????--repeated test

7/18
pmps 597 shot 4 units
+2.5 401
+5 282

7/18
amps 372 shot 3.5

7/18
mdps 320 shot 3.5
+5 272

(new thread at pmps)



Whatever last night was, it looks like it has cleared. I dropped back to 3.5--will try to hold there--that would be close to reflecting her normal dose on BID. But, I still think it will take 4 units tid to get us in good numbers......we'lll see!

She is headbutting and talking this morning--acts GREAT!

I hope everyone has a Great Day!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Looks great, Kim! I'm so happy to see those lower numbers! Go Kitty!!! :RAHCAT dancing_cat
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Good job, Kim.
Things are looking good for Miss. Kitty.

no jinx, paws and fingers crossed.

Callie Mae says marwl. :smile:
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

+4 276


Getting very little drop on the 3 units--but it is holding her steady. On BID--3 units "normally" produced flat curves a pooped at +8--It appears we are in the same pattern---but, are shooting early enough to avoid the zoom.

Maybe the mdps should increase to 3.25, to try and get more drop. Truly---- I think optimaly, she will probably be 4 units TID.

I know I need to wait for the preshot--but, should I let the 3 units settle more or increase--assuming the numbers continue along the same pattern?

Thanks for the help!

SS updated!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

I think that sounds like a plan, Kim. Off to test Shaikha. She's been starving this AM. I may have to give her some more food in a little bit. You'd think I haven't been feeding her at all! Her brother got into her food this AM so he may have gotten more of it than I thought. I guess it is turnabout for her eating all his chow yesterday! :lol:

At any rate, I think you'd be fine going up that amount. Kitty is definitely doing better though, don't you think? Yellows are good to see, and the lack of zooms are a good thing as well.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Looks good to me! Good for Kitty & Kim! It's Nancy's birthday?

Happy Birthday Nancy! party_cat
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

She doesn't act like she feels as good this morning--she was GREAT yesterday. She isn't talking as much. I gave her fluids and the bupe an hour ago--maybe that will help.

I think she missed me yesterday and now she has had time to think about being in the vet and is MAD!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Remember you just got the diagnosis of pancreatitis. It doesn't tend to go away that quickly, so bupe if she seems off is a good plan, as are fluids. Hope she's feeling better soon! cat_pet_icon
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

mdps-----364 shot 3.5

I increased to 3.5 units-- not much drop on 3 units and her overall insulin daily dose bid was 10 U--with 3 U tid--short 1 unit of daily intake. Truly , I think she might be a 4 unit tid cat.

Hopefully, the 3.5 will be a good dose for avg. drop and 8 hour duration.

I fed 7 percent carb this cycle--normally feed 2 to 3 percent carb-did this to reduce fat for Ptitis.

She seems good--- Normally she drinks water during the day--not excessive, but noticeable---No drinking today and no noticeable urination. Very calm and quiet.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Looks good, Kim! I think the dose increase was wise. She may well be a 12U per day cat -- and a TID one too. ;-)
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Yeah, Wendy--- I hope this cycle gets more drop. I do know with enough insulin she will drop--she will go into the blues with enough! I really don't think the dose units effects the duration--it is almost always gone by +8--as long as I can head off the zoom I think there is room to increase.

Thanks again for the help!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

kse said:
Yeah, Wendy--- I hope this cycle gets more drop. I do know with enough insulin she will drop--she will go into the blues with enough! I really don't think the dose units effects the duration--it is almost always gone by +8--as long as I can head off the zoom I think there is room to increase. Thanks again for the help!
Click to expand...

If you are always seeing the insulin gone by +8, then you've definitely got a TID cat! The zooming is why I had to switch Shaikha over. She just can't go 12 hours between shots, period. Once in a while her pancreas will kick in, but usually it is AWOL.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Wow, very nice to see no reds or blacks, and some yellows creeping in. Looks like she may be a TID gal. ;-)

There are a couple TID fine points I'm not sure of and I wonder if anyone knows?

1) Should she move only in 0.2 increments? The 0.5 makes me nervous as it's adding 1.5 a day rather than the 1u it would add to BID, so proportionally it's almost like raising 0.75 for BID? Not that I'm worried the 0.5 is too much for any one shot, but just from an overlap perspective.

2) How long with TID does it take to reach "full overlap" so to speak? With BID, some cats never get it, with Bix I saw max results on cycle 3 or cycle 4. I was told with PZI BID most cats reach it in 2 or 3 cycles (barring those that never see overlap), and some take a little longer. But with TID...? I'm sure it's more than 2-3 cycles - is it 2-3 days? Or.... ???

I want to be sure Kim knows some of that stuff so doesn't end up increasing too rapidly and having an all-night "Dance dancing_cat of the Scary Greens". Particularly when Kitty *isn't* zooming it looks like by the +8s. Which is AWESOME, but also can be a sign of good overlap, and the trick is to get overlap that is good but not too good.

I just don't have enough TID experience to know. But I certainly did see Bix drop suddenly to the perfect nadir when the overlap got to where he needed it, which is good but can also be scary, and risky if overdone.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Joanna--first thanks for asking the questions above. Please ask anything that you can think of to keep me out of trouble!

Definitely, if tid is where we end up--I will revise the spreadsheet.

Thanks to all, for the support and help to get Kitty in better numbers.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

I found this interesting--on her mid cycle, I decided to get a +2 test to see if there was any overlap or if she was zooming and waiting for the mid cycle shot to kick in. At +2, she is already down @100 points to 271--that is with 7 percent carb food on board. I never feed food over 3 percent carb--so a definite increase in carbs to boot.

If she nadirs at +6, this might be a good cycle.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
There are a couple TID fine points I'm not sure of and I wonder if anyone knows?

1) Should she move only in 0.2 increments? The 0.5 makes me nervous as it's adding 1.5 a day rather than the 1u it would add to BID, so proportionally it's almost like raising 0.75 for BID? Not that I'm worried the 0.5 is too much for any one shot, but just from an overlap perspective.

2) How long with TID does it take to reach "full overlap" so to speak? With BID, some cats never get it, with Bix I saw max results on cycle 3 or cycle 4. I was told with PZI BID most cats reach it in 2 or 3 cycles (barring those that never see overlap), and some take a little longer. But with TID...? I'm sure it's more than 2-3 cycles - is it 2-3 days? Or.... ???

I want to be sure Kim knows some of that stuff so doesn't end up increasing too rapidly and having an all-night "Dance dancing_cat of the Scary Greens". Particularly when Kitty *isn't* zooming it looks like by the +8s. Which is AWESOME, but also can be a sign of good overlap, and the trick is to get overlap that is good but not too good. I just don't have enough TID experience to know. But I certainly did see Bix drop suddenly to the perfect nadir when the overlap got to where he needed it, which is good but can also be scary, and risky if overdone.
Click to expand...

Kim was saying she thought Kitty could take 12 units per day, so splitting it out to 4 units three times gave that. It think that's why she was making the changes she made. That said, for myself I only make smaller changes at a time, but Shaikha is more sensitive to insulin too. Kitty definitely seems to be more resistant and is a big gulper compared to Shaikha. As a percentage of Kitty's total dose, a 0.5U change isn't as big as a 0.2U change for Shaikha. I know we usually try to go for smaller changes, but when you get to big gulpers like Kitty (or Payne), I don't know what applies. Maybe Nancy can answer what works best for Payne? You do need to be cognizant though of the fact you are getting in one more dose on TID than normal, split out into threes of course, so you have to take the total increase into account for all day.

I'm not sure how to answer #2. Shaikha is so variable it is hard to tell, but my sense is it only takes two days at most. Her BG levels seems to settle down quickly once returning to TID dosing so I don't think the overlap effect takes long as all. Maybe Nancy has a better feel for this since she's been at TID longer.

Interesting questions!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

kse said:
I found this interesting--on her mid cycle, I decided to get a +2 test to see if there was any overlap or if she was zooming and waiting for the mid cycle shot to kick in. At +2, she is already down @100 points to 271--that is with 7 percent carb food on board. I never feed food over 3 percent carb--so a definite increase in carbs to boot.

If she nadirs at +6, this might be a good cycle.
Click to expand...

Very interesting, Kim! I don't do +2 tests that often, but they are a good way to test for overlap effects. Hope she does have a great cycle! I like seeing these lower numbers for her though. I know those scary reds and blacks only too well.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

We just got here, it is so beautiful!! I stopped and had wine with friends, so not sure how clear my answers will be :) traveling with a diabetic cat and an exotic bird, not that much fun! ohmygod_smile

Payne is a 12u a day cat, when things are normal, more when the ketones take off. Because of the ketones I change her dose in .5 increments, sometimes when I am using R by 1u .... Payne is a big gulper, as it seems so is Kitty.

I have tried smaller doses, it doesn't work. My problem in the beginning was treating Payne like a 1u 2x a day, find the sweet spot, kind of cat but she is way too complex, that's why she is here now, checking out the rooms!

I have been shooting t.i.d. for over seven months now and I don't see an overlap .... she nadirs at +5 or +6 by +8, for her there is nothing left .... but ECID and Payne is very different!

We are off to a party, bird is on her cage and Payne is? she is a cat!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

+5 271 same reading as +2

I still would like to see more drop---but, at least the cycle numbers are better. Maybe she can surf this area for 3 hours.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
Kim, you might want to copy Wendy's TID SS format - I love it! & I'm sure she'd be happy to share!
Click to expand...

I'd be glad to, with anyone who wishes to join the TID club. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Oh I forgot you are not official TID, I was so excited by her nice steady surfing today and no icky reds & blacks.

So you are thinking TID on weekends and BID during the week? I think this short experiment has gone really well. Tweaking of course needed to get better numbers, but overall it looks promising to me. Was it fun, lol? flip_cat
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Fun?! I am trying to stay awake for 30 more mins. so I can test and shoot.

I am going to continue this and see how it works---- seems better than BID at the present time!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

kse said:
Fun?! I am trying to stay awake for 30 more mins. so I can test and shoot. I am going to continue this and see how it works---- seems better than BID at the present time!
Click to expand...

LOL, I have the same problem sometimes. What I'll do if it is bad enough is just set an alarm and get up and feed/shoot when it is time.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID

Woohoo, staying with TID, I love it! I don't know how people do it, but I love it! I did it briefly when I wasn't working and it was still grueling. But then you are already getting lots of spot tests in anyway, so hopefully it won't be too much more to stick with TID. And the numbers are such a relief to see. :-D
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Okay---pmps 597----what do I shoot? And, where did this come from---up 300 points in 3 hours?????
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Wow, looks like a bounce to me. I'd be careful as to how much. You increased the dose by 0.5U on the mid-day one, right? I'd try staying with that since she's so high now and try to let it settle some.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Did you retest just to be sure of the reading? My guess is that she isn't used to the yellows and her liver decided to kick into gear, unless she went a lot lower during the period you didn't test. Did you feed anything unusual within two hours of the PMPS test?

PS: I've got to test Shaikha but I'll be right back -- promise!
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Yes---3 times....

I shot 4 units...She did fall off of the dresser right before testing--maybe "scaring" her--but, I wouldn't think that would increase her that much???


Didn't see your answer before shooting-----this is the highest reading in Months.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

What a trip---bouncing from the 200s?!


I did feed 7 carbs tonight with the mdps-- I never feed that high--twice as high as normal.

I always feed when I shoot, but she has gone back to bed-- is it necessary to feed?

Today--3 +3.5+ 4=10.5 units-- only .5 units more than she was getting......
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Well, that might have done it. BG also rises due to white coat syndrome at the vet, so falling off a dresser might definitely do it if it scared her. I'd imagine that would cause her liver to pump plenty of glucose into the system not to mention adrenaline. In case it is a bounce, Kitty's got company. Shaikha got some nice lower blues today and her liver kicked into overdrive. We were at 391 PMPS. Am going to feed and give insulin now. I'm going to hold her dose though because I'm sure this is a bounce. We got a decent pattern twice today so it was working for her. She's been starving all day however, which is odd. She's either camped out on my desk or sitting in front of it staring at me like "when's dinner?" Maybe it is that higher carb food she got today -- the little carboholic! :lol:
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

kse said:
What a trip---bouncing from the 200s?!

I did feed 7 carbs tonight with the mdps-- I never feed that high--twice as high as normal.

I always feed when I shoot, but she has gone back to bed-- is it necessary to feed?

Today--3 +3.5+ 4=10.5 units-- only .5 units more than she was getting......
Click to expand...

Yes, I would feed her. I don't like giving insulin without food in the tummy, and especially with the megadoses Kitty gets.

She's only getting 0.5U more, but you also increased the dose in the last few days and now added in TID. Overlap does make a difference. I'd be careful how much you go up each time for a little while until you see how she reacts.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

I probably shouldn't have gone up---but, sheeezzz----how can she rebound at these numbers?

If she is in decent numbers in the morning I will reduce back...... I was just scared she would stay Hi all night.

I did feed ---2 percent carb.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Well, you don't know how low she went after you tested last, plus you've got overlap working for you now. Like I said, you may be able to get away with less insulin on this schedule. It doesn't happen for Payne, but it does for Shaikha. You had a lot in play this round -- possible impact of adrenaline/glycogen due to being scared, overlap, dose change, and even feeding a higher carb food. Any of that could make her higher. It probably is a combination of things.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

When have you tested last for ketones? I'm sure she's fine, but it might be worth a check if you haven't done so recently.
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Tested today---negative!

She acts like she feels great....
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

She'll be fine. Shaikha acts normal even with insanely high numbers, though of course she gets thirstier. I'm sure part of what you saw was the dresser incident. Off to bed for both of us! Morning will come awfully early.... ;-)
 
Re: Kitty 7/17 TID---HELP pmps

Meet you back here in the morning?!!!

Good Night!

Thanks....
 
AMPS 372

Hopefully last night was some crazy bounce or the 7 percent carb food (so much for low fat--I am going to have to find a different route on that!)

I dropped back to 3.5--- will try to stay there!
 
Wow Kim, a lot of changes for you guys since I last checked in on you!!! You are the most dedicated Momma bean. TID sounds challenging but you are doing great.
All the best to you and Kitty. Glad she got some head butts in recently. Always a good sign :)
 
7/18 mdms 320 shot 3.5


Not Red or Black!!!

I will start a new thread at pmps--I was trying to make up for opening 4 on Saturday! :razz:
 
I was thinking you "earned" a new condo soon .....(I don't see why only the L's can use condo :)

At least Kitty is settling down a little, maybe knew Mama Bean could not take any more! I am glad you are going to take it one day at a time ...... :mrgreen:
 
Looks good today! Shaikha is keeping up with Kitty today level-wise. She's in the high 300s again. I am beginning to think we are dealing with more than a bounce. Will see how it goes. Am going to test her more frequently this cycle to see if she stays flat, so I know whether I need to bump up her dose again. I was going to take her to the vet on Friday and got busy, and since she was seeming to do so well, of course I didn't! Now I'm wishing i would have. Bleah!
 
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