Kitty 7/11 amps +4.5 +6 pmps +5.5

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kse

kse

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amps--changed time to reflect reality--we had gotten off due to shooting early

7/11

amps 471 shot 4 units
+4.5 340 pretty much stinks! last cycle was much better.....
+6 315 So, that is it for drop on this cycle

pmps 387 (45 min early) shot 4 units
+ 5.5 329 wish I hadn't of tested!



SS is updated--we hit blues last night and were in good yellows at +8--BUT, 471 at 11.5--shot 4 units. I am going to try and ride the 4 unit train and see if it will settle, I like the drop, but HATE the preshots.

She is feeling good and much more active--headbutting and grooming!

Any thoughts???
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule)

I think it's a good idea to hold the 4 units and let it settle. I wish she would give you better preshots though.
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5

+ 4.5 340 Pretty much stinks!

The last cycle was much better and saw blue....

I have to assume she zoomed for an hour or so after her preshot and is coming down...but coming from much higher than the 470 test.

This has to stop!

I think the lower doses are giving us more even numbers---no I don't like them, but I HATE these!

I might reduce to 3 units tonight.....I know that sounds crazy, but what is there to lose?

I am looking up the Vet School's number as I type......
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5

Darn it!
I like the reduction to 3. The results you saw on 3.5 had nicer preshots that's for sure.
Keep us posted (of course you will) on what the vet school says.
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6

+6 315

So much for any additional drop on this cycle........

I know a lot is going on with her...BUT.......ugh.......

The good news--only a few more hours and I can try again!
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6

I know it is so frustrating!
hang in there! Miss Kitty will get better numbers soon...
I hate to give advice, but maybe you should hold the 4 a little longer??

Just a thought....
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6

She sure is a mystery! At least she is feeling good. No ketones, right?
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6 pmps

pmps 387 (45 min early) shot 4 units

It doesn't look like a lot of movement today, but it also does not look like a zoom---or I caught it early. I gave fluids at +7, that could have helped the zoom. Who knows?

At least my test didn't reveal the high reds.

So, we will see what this does tonight!
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6 pmps

I'm not a big fan of letting it settle personally - from what I have seen it gives their body a chance to get ahead of the dose, insulin resistance builds up, etc., and things tend to gradually get worse and their insulin needs go up. I haven't used ProZinc though, and some say their cats have responded well to longer stretches holding a dose - I'm not sure I buy that, but I haven't seen it first hand so I can't really say for sure.

Of course you don't want to start up rebound either of course. Looks to me like you have room for more drop though w/o hitting the rebound point? I would follow your instincts.
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6 pmps

I don't claim to understand any of this, but I was looking at your SS and noticed she seemed to have somewhat better (no reds) pre shots when you were shooting 2u once a day. I know you have been concerned about ketones, but since that has not been an issue for awhile, is there any point at which you might consider a lower dose?
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6 pmps

Sorry, I see you were talking about a lower dose. I don't think it is crazy to try that out as long as you are keeping careful watch on the ketones.
 
Re: 7/11 amps (changed time schedule) +4.5 +6 pmps

Judy---- I really am thinking about just shooting a crazy low dose one cycle and see what happens. I will be on top on the ketones and test the cycle---it probably sounds crazy, but what do I have to lose?

The last few times I shot lower doses, it was pretty flat..but, who knows? I am about ready to try anything!

My illustrious vet thinks that early on her pancreas was helping out, thus needing less insulin and now she needs more. It is obvious, I haven't found her dose!

I don't know what role the Ptitis is playing at this point.
 
Re: Kitty 7/11 amps +4.5 +6 pmps

Y'all said 1 unit was the heart attack number.....I'm not going that low! If I do my trial, I won't tell you until it is over!!!
 
Re: Kitty 7/11 amps +4.5 +6 pmps

Well, perhaps your vet is right and that is why she had lower numbers early on. But Joanna, do you think a cycle of low insulin will really be destructive? I don't want to be mobilizing multiple heart attacks! How do you think these red numbers should be addressed?
 
Re: Kitty 7/11 amps +4.5 +6 pmps

I was thinking 2 units. What if I fur shot???? To be sure it wouldn't kill her for one cycle!
 
Re: Kitty 7/11 amps +4.5 +6 pmps

Am I crazy, desperate or realistic?

We went from 2 units a day to 6 units a day in one day after the DKA. She had a massive bloody UTI when the ketones reared their heads and she had only been only insulin for about 3 weeks--so naturally she was insulin deprived--more so than today.

Aahhhhh?????
 
Re: Kitty 7/11 amps +4.5 +6 pmps

I think you are crazy! It's like how many cats can you pull out of the bag. :roll: :roll:

If you notice the 2u a day led her into DKA ..... which she hasn't had since her dose was upped! now you add the CP and do you really want to push her farther the other way? She is a complex cat and probably doesn't have a sweet spot but she does need adequate insulin, I personally don't see the point.
 
Nancy, you and Joanna have a lot more experience than I. I am wondering, once a cat has had a dka episode, is there ever a way to safely experiment with lower doses? Or does that fact establish a higher need for insulin from then on out?
 
I am going to test in an hour.......we will go from there!

I think the pancreas is inflamed and just so many issues---it was hard enough to come up with a strategy prior to the Ptitis!

Last night's +6 was not good!
 
I have had no experience with DKA and touch wood I never will so don't listen to me. Nancy & Payne have dealt with it alot so take her advise to heart.
 
I just don't see any signs the dose is too high, that's why lowering makes no sense to me. It was when she was on 2u that she DKA'd, so if it were me, you could not pay me money to lower the dose to that level or lower without some really compelling evidence that her insulin needs have gone down. Which I don't see, in fact they look to me to have gone up.

In a non-ketone prone kitty I generally don't argue too hard with the dose reduction trials. I did it myself (disaster, by the way, though thankfully Bix tolerated it, poor guy), and I know that I was just so convinced at the time that it was the right thing to do that I wasn't listening to reason. So if someone feels like they need to try that and I don't see the need, I will usually sigh and go along with it.

But in a ketone-prone kitty it just makes no sense to me, in the absense of any sign the dose is too high. Why go there? It's like if you have a chronic headache and you say "hey, let's skip the pain killers today and see what happens, maybe today will be the day I don't need them!" And then you end up with a nasty headache and have to take more pain meds to get past it.

I doubt that 1 cycle or 1 day on a low dose is going to do her noticeable harm, I just don't see the point. She's gotten better numbers lately on the higher doses, the only issue is the steep drops. To me the way around that is either early shooting, creative feeding (which may or may not work), or a different insulin. Unless her numbers show improvement in the next few days from the new meds & stuff, I don't see how BID PZI is very likely to work well for her. Gosh, I feel so doom & gloom, sorry!!!! I really think she can do well actually, especially in light of the blues & greens we've seen lately, I just think she needs an alternate strategy to get out of the periodic high numbers.
 
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