Kitty 6/18 amps +3 +6 +10 pmps

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kse

kse

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6/17 pm cycle

pmps. 386. Shot a skinny 4. Ate 1 can FF
+3. 304 Ate Tbs. FF
+5. 216
+6. 180
+9. Ate 1/5 can FF


amps 458. Ate 1 can FF Shot a skinny 4
+3. 368
+6. 237. Ate 1/3 FF
+10. 298
Pmps 440. Shot 4.2


I am assuming the 458 is still some bounce? I am not scared to increase to 4.25, but if it is a bounce I don't want to make it worse.

I am sure the snack at +9 didn't help.

Shoot 4?

Any chance you are around Marcy?
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps

I shaved last night to a skinny 4.0--- maybe more U40s it is hard to tell.

How much would you shave off today?
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps

No conversion chart-- just eyeballing! I can get the other syringes and use the chart if necessary.

I shot less than 4-- somewhere between 3.8 and 3.9.

We'll see what it gives us!

Thanks for the help.

How is Klinger liking the new food?
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps

He's liking it ok so far, but we're transitioning slowly by mixing it in with his fancy feast.
Thanks for asking. :smile:
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps

kse said:
No conversion chart-- just eyeballing! I can get the other syringes and use the chart if necessary.

I shot less than 4-- somewhere between 3.8 and 3.9.
Click to expand...

Kim! I can't believe you haven't been using the U100 syringes?? How in the world can you see any of it? nailbite_smile
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps

I have mainly shot whole numbers or half units-- I haven't had any trouble. She is not very insulin sensitive, so I think I am okay right now.
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps

You won't believe the difference the U100 syringes with the half unit markings will make. They are so much easier to measure doses.

Very nice nadir last night. Every day that she see's blues, she will get more and more used to it and stop reacting to it.
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3

I might look into the U 100s.

Kitty FINALLY feels better. I could tell a big difference in her last night.

She seems happy and is actually showing some Zest for life!

+3. 368
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3

I wouldn't assume the red # is a bounce. Maybe, maybe not. And sometimes you have to live with some bounce to get the better #s. Not bounce from the dose being too high, I don't mean that b/c in that case you do want to reduce the dose. But liver training bounce, you basically want to just ignore it. Yes, don't shoot the bounce, but if they are in liver training there is always bounce for a while, so while you don't increase on the 1st high PS, you may still need to be on a dose increase path.

Looking at last night's cycle I don't see any low #s and I don't see a steep drop, so that means if there is a bounce, it is in the liver training category, so you wouldn't need to worry at all that raising the dose might make the bounce worse. If it made it worse, it would be if she sees better #s and reacts to them, which is fine - more liver training, and you just ignore it.

Where you don't want to raise on a bounce and make the bounce worse is if you are getting steep drops - then you set up a see saw pattern and you don't want that. Of course raising on a higher PS can start to set you up for that, so I'm not saying you *should* have raised this morning, just pointing out why it's not a big issue.

I think b/c we don't really have clearly separate terms for bounce that is caused by the dose too high and bounce caused by liver training, it can get really confusing what is going on, and what action to take. Dose too high bounce = lower the dose. Liver training bounce = do not lower the dose, hold the dose, and if a dose increase is in order anyhow, like if you've been at a dose a while and are barely touching good #s, go ahead with it.
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3

I would hold the 4u and not increase. Even if you ended up with a lower nadir, it would then become a steeper drop, and that drop probably wouldn't feel too good to go through imo.
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3 +6

Joanna I actually understand what you are referring too.

I like the gentle curves she is getting-- but would love to be in better numbers. Am I bring greedy?

My vet is of the same philosophy as Barbara's -- my vet--"350 perfect preshot, but anything btw 300 & 400 is good. Nadir is perfect in the 100s-- no threat of hypo and she us not too high"

Okay, so where do Kitty and I go from here? I am going to try to get the ss to load and update it. I am happy she is getting some drop, but.... What next?

Stay at 4 and wait it out or increase to 4.25?
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3 +6

Those were some nice numbers last night
So glas Kitty is doing better!

Denise and shakes
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3 +6

Yeah, I bet all the vets get the same chapter on diabetes from the same textbook. ohmygod_smile Hopefully they have updated it by now.

kse said:
I like the gentle curves she is getting-- but would love to be in better numbers. Am I bring greedy?
Click to expand...

Not at all, I think that is the goal for everyone. The thing is some kitties get gentle curves in good #s, and some don't. My thoughts are:

1) Experiment with feeding the drop to ease the curve in the 1st part of the cycle. That is a way you can have higher doses and still keep the curve from being too steep.

2) Consider a different insulin. I haven't used the Ls, but supposedly they are longer-acting and have gentler curves. I'm not sure that is true for all kitties, but a lot of cats seem to do very well on them.

The problem with not increasing the dose is that her numbers are too high. If you get boxed into a place where increasing gives you too steep a drop, then you are kind of stuck. I don't think settling for gentle curves in higher #s is the answer in most cases. There isn't really a super-simple answer though. Changing insulins means you have to learn a whole new insulin, and depending on how you tackle the dose increases, they can sit in higher #s for a long time until you get to the good dose and their shed builds up and all that. There are ways to deal with that so it's manageable, but still it's a set of new challenges.

There are other options too for PZI. You can try shooting earlier than +12s so the PSs aren't as high, and that way avoid the steep drops. But that's a pain in the a** to do, you need to do a LOT of testing to be sure you are always shooting on a rising number, and it consumes more of your time than is already dedicated to the diabetes! It can work really well though, like what Wombat right now is doing it has worked really great for them.

See what others say..... There's no one right answer.

As for your dose right now I think it may depend on how steep the drop is. You don't want to set her up for rebound. If it were me, I would probably try something like a fat 4 and experiment with some feeding in the 1st half of the cycle and see if I could coax good numbers out of it without a steep drop. That would be if I had the patience and wasn't sleepy :roll: which I don't know would be the case!!!!
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3 +6 +10

I think I would try Joanna's idea, go to a f4u and feed a snack at +3 to soften the drop.

Even with yesterdays curve you have a little more room to drop
 
Re: Kitty 6/18 amps +3 +6 +10

Kim,
Someone said recently, and I would give credit if my over-loaded and water-logged brain could find it ohmygod_smile that if we ran pzi like the L's run their insulin, we might see better numbers ...... and more off the juice? who knows? I spent 10 days in LL and everyone was very nice and helpful but it is a boot camp!! I could never test that much, nor would I want too. That's beside the point, sorry. They do get impressive results. For you Kim maybe, but you would need to be very aggressive in all of your testing because of the DKA. In the beginning you need to reduce your dose and that is what did us in .... had we started on a higher dose? I don't know? Also someone recently said that they used Lantus before all the protocol was put in place and treated it just like her last insulin (which I can't remember maybe HumN) and after a few? months? her cat went OTJ ....

We all do what we think might work. I am very aggressive in my dosing because my doses are so high/often but pzi can be shot t.i.d. very easily which I don't think you want to do, understand, trust me! But IMHO pzi is as good as the L's, if we treated it like they do .....

I know there were other things but I need to dry off. ohmygod_smile so I'll be back. Payne is good, it has been quite a ride! Nancy
 
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