Kitten is newly diagnosed and would love some advice!

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LILandKIT

LILandKIT

Member Since 2012
Hi all,

I am new to this forum, and am so happy that I found you! My husband's cat (and now is my pumpkin too) - Kitten (who is anything but...maine coon, pre-diabetes weighing in at about 20lbs) received a wonderful Christmas gift this year when he was diagnosed with FD. We had a feeling that this was going to be the case as he had all the classic signs: peeing out of the litter box, flooding when he actually used the litter box, drinking incessantly, losing weight etc. Unfortunately, we made a huge mistake and although reading that it could be a sign of diabetes, we blamed it on him being mad at us that we left on vacation this summer for 3 weeks (he had wonderful cat-sitters, but he's very attached to my husband). The in November, his lifelong littermate passed away, so we thought he was just upset at being alone for the first time. It took us until December to bring him to the vet, when we noticed that his back legs were slipping (neuropathy) and realized that it has to be diabetes and we need to go in. Feeling awful that we didn't trust our instincts and seeing him struggling with walking, we are trying everything possible to get him back on track.

Initial blood work showed a glucose reading of 23 -- we live in Toronto, and based on what I read, the US equivalent would be 414. She put him on Lantus 1u/2x daily and we spent Christmas eve learning how to administer the shots. Both of us were really relieved to see how easy it was to give the shots...easy compared to the anxiety caused visions we had between learning about the diagnosis and going in to learn. We waited a couple days to start because the clinic was closed over the Christmas long weekend, so we waited until the Tuesday in case hypo happened and we needed to go in. At first Kitten would sit well, but now as soon as we put him on the counter he wants to run away. We've resulted to giving him his shots while he's eating...I hope that's alright!

Food was switched over the Christmas weekend. I immediately plopped myself in front of the computer and started researching, and found the beloved Binky's charts. What a lifesaver!! So package of papers in hand, off we went to Petsmart in search of something low carbs. We ended up coming home with a case of Sophisticat, but now with more time spent reading over information, we may try something different. Kitten is not really picky and as long as its food, he will eat, so we're pretty lucky in that case. He seems better right away with just food - it was amazing that he was peeing normally and we didn't have to refill the water bowl a bunch of times during the day! It's just heart-wrenching that his back legs are not seeming to get better - i heard this takes time but with every step we feel more and more guilty that it took us so long to acknowledge his diabetes :cry:

Now the vet said to bring him back in to do a glucose curve, staying there the entire day. She said we can do this at home and recommended AlphaTracks glucometer for $200 and she will analyze the numbers for $30 each time. Now, this is where I am COMPLETELY confused and I've immersed myself in a whirlwind of information. I've read other newbies to this forum who seem to have the same questions, and I think I'm still overwhelmed. :? It seems like a lot of people just do home testing. Is this everyday? Is this in addition to a curve? Is this just a curve? What am I looking for? Do the numbers change what the dosage is? Do I still have to bring him in for this curve? Kitten is very very shy, despite his size, and will run and hide if you sneeze...I know that anxiety/stress causes elevated blood glucose levels, so I can only imagine the numbers soaring if he spent the day at the vet. Also, I read here that a lot of people use ReliOn from Walmart...is this a better alternative to the Alphatrack which seems quite expensive? (then again, i have NO idea how much a glucometer is supposed to cost).

Thanks so much for all your posts and I've learned so much just in the last couple days of going through some of the treads. I feel like there are people out there that know our anxiety and can help us during this difficult time. Kitten will definitely be happy :)
 

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Well first off congrats on what you have already done! Second you are 90% there.

You are right that many people use a human meter to test their cats. The walmart relion is recommended because it is inexpensive, requires a small amount of blood and gives a pretty accurate reading.

No, you don't need to buy the alphatrak. And no, you don't need to have the vet analyze the test results and no you don't need to take the cat into the vet for testing.

You are correct, spending the day at the vet, will not always give you accurate numbers as they will in the cat's home environment - vet stress is the leading problem with that.

If you are willing to home test, we can help you. Purchase a human meter (relion is fine) and here is the link to help you start: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

We test our cats at a minimum before each shot and can test several times a day, depending on what the numbers are looking like. On average, if you test daily, before each shot and get a two or three tests in - in between, you are doing well. Some days, you can test more frequently than others and I would suggest testing at different times throughout the day, so for example if day 1 you test 2 hours after the shot and then again at 4 hours, on day 2 test 1 hour after the shot and again at 3 or 10 hours after the shot.

Work the testing into your schedule and you will soon collect plenty of data to see what's going on with the insulin. Of course, we can help you interpret the numbers too.

Others will be along shortly with more helpful suggestions.
 
Thanks so much!! I will take a look through those resources and will head on out to Walmart tonight! I am happy to know that I can keep an eye on him myself and dont have to worry about a stressful day at the vet (incl a 30min struggle to get him into the cat carrier -- note to self: invent something that cats actually want to go and sit into).

So I guess my best bet is to keep a log of numbers for a couple of days and then try to make sense of them and go from there....yay! I feel like I'm already digging myself out of a hole...
 
Hello and welcome! My cat was diagnosed about a month ago, and the biggest thing I can tell you is that it gets easier! For my cat, the difference is night and day-he's gained weight, isn't drinking tons, and obviously feels pretty good.

Shooting while he eats is ok. I do the same thing, and Mikey doesn't even care.

Home testing is essential to getting your cat safely regulated and, depending on your goals, working toward getting him off insulin entirely. Most of us use human meters-the Alpha Trak is super expensive, the strips are super expensive, and studies indicate it's no more reliable than a human meter. Relion, Walmart's brand, is a popular one, because it has the cheapest test strips. I'm sure some of our Canadian members can chime in on what's readily available in your area. You will want to test several times a day, every day. If nothing else, it's essential to test before you give the shot (do this before he eats!) and when the insulin is at its peak (usually around +6 hours from the shot, but not always. It's important to test often early on to find out when the nadir is. It's closer to +4 in my cat. Knowing the nadir, when BG is lowest, is very important if the cat's BG goes too low, because you know how much longer he's likely to drop. You can set up a spreadsheet (there are directions in the tech section) to keep track of the numbers, and you can post a link so the great folks here can take a look and help you if and when you need it. Feel free to take a look at Mikey's; the link is in my signature. You can see that I test a bit less frequently now if I am satisfied that the numbers won't dip too low, but always get 3-4 tests each cycle. Some test more, a few test at preshot and nadir only. If your cat does hypo, home testing can help you catch it before your cat shows symptoms, which can save the kitty's life! There are plenty of videos available to guide you.

I do curves u(testing at preshot and every two hours until the next shot) at home and email the results to the vet, as numbers at home are less affected by stress, and if making dose adjustments, it's critical to have the most accurate numbers. I do one every week or so-just did one yesterday. I would discuss this with the vet as the more stressed the cat is, the more it can affect the numbers (most skyrocket, but some actually go lower), and if you adjust dosing based on the higher, stressed numbers, it's probably too much for your cat's normal numbers.

There are a ton of people here who will offer you great advice and guidance, and it is such a comfort to have this resource. You and Kitten have found a great place, even if you wish (as we all do) that you never had to find it.
 
Ah, we can help you with tracking the numbers. HEre is the spreadsheet we all use:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

AMPS - morning before shot
PMPS - evening before shot

Think of the clock in 12 hour increments, everything is x number of hours after the morning or evening shot - from 1-11 and then starting over at the AMPS or PMPS.

This way it doesn't matter what time zone you are in (as we are all in different ones) we are all talking the same language. So, if you shoot at 10 am/10 pm that is your AMPS and PMPS time.

Make sense?
 
Hi and welcome.

You've already been given some great advice. With regards the neuropathy it does take time but you can help move things along by adding MethylB12. Not regular B12 but Methylcobalamin. Unlike regular B12, MB12 helps heal damaged nerve cells.

Check out this link, per her website Laurie had started here on FDMB but went on to create this website dedicated just to neuropathy. http://www.laurieulrich.com/jasper/

When you went to the vet did they check teeth or anything else? What was Kitten's diet prior to the diagnosis?
 
Wow, thanks for all the quick info and advice! This is totally awesome and sooo helpful.

I downloaded the spreadsheet and will hopefully begin filling it in tomorrow for his AMPS (look, I already learned something! - provided that Walmart has what I need or an equivalent at least. The spreadsheet looks simple enough to fill in and will try this for a couple of days to see what sort of numbers I get. I am a little nervous about the blood testing - I watched about a hundred videos now, and it just seems like all those cats just sit there. I'm telling you, Kit runs with just a sneeze, so it should be interesting. I'm going to go to petsmart and grab some low-carb treats, so I dont have to result to Temptations which will probably defeat the whole purpose of treating diabetes to begin with.

I actually came across Laurie's website before as I was aimlessly searching the net for info. It seems like MB12 would be ideal! Is this something that I have to get from the vet? or can i find it somewhere else? I would love to have something that will help him with it...its so hard to see him barely being able to jump onto the sofa, or flying all over the place just to move around.

The vet did not check anything else such as teeth...should I be worried?? He did a complete blood test and it all came out normal.

Before diagnosis he was eating strictly dry food - Purina, Wiskas...twice a day feedings. Now we feed him before his AM and PM shot and a little lunch in between - only canned.
 
I can buy MB12 locally at the Vitamin Shoppe, but I think Lifelink has it online. http://www.lifelinknet.com/siteResources/Products/Xobaline.asp Maybe others can tell you where they buy it. One cat I'm working with got back up on all fours in just under 5 weeks once we added the MB12. The kitty was on his hocks when adopted so we don't know how long we was like that but very happy to see him jumping now.

Your kitty might get frightened by the click of the lancet device by his ear if he's super skiddish. Once you get your meter use the lancet device without the lancet it in a few times while you play with his ear and offer treats, it might help him adjust to it. With my own kitties, they don't mind the lancet poke, they minded the noise. Some chicken treats quickly changed that and they now sit through it nicely.

I asked about teeth because sometimes it's diet, stress or infection that can cause diabetes. I was wondering if maybe he had a toothache or something. At your next appointment have the vet peak at his teeth. Diabetic cats can get bad teeth because the sugar in the saliva is a breeding ground for bacteria. Some unregulated diabetics also get urinary tract infections for the same reason. Your kitty is probably fine, but just keep an eye on the whole cat. When you log BGs, write down other information, did he eat everything, did he seem sluggish or happy, did he vomit. These things will guide you in the future.
 
Just be sure to check the bottle of Methyl B-12 very carefully on the back for the
complete list of ingredients.

Some bottles will state Methyl B-12 on the front, but in the fine print on the
back there is only a very small amount of methylcobalamine and the rest is
some other form of B-12.

If you use Xobolomine (brand name), you can crush it and put it into Kitten's food.
 
So ReliOn doesn't appear to be exist in Canadian Walmarts - either that or the woman helping me doesn't know herself. We kept telling her it was for my father, and then Kevin (my husband) was on the phone and said, "I'm buying a glucometer for my cat" and the woman looked at us funny lol. I ended up buying a Bayer Breeze 2 only because it said it required only 1ul blood sample, and it was the lowest out of all the ones that were there. I am really really hoping that it is an ok one. I was so nervous when she said she has never heard of ReliOn. All I could think of was "oh no, i have no idea even what i'm looking for!"

So tomorrow we will start. I am not going to start until the evening, and because if its our first time, I dont want to rush because Kevin needs to get to work (luckily I'm on holidays until Monday - one perk of teaching!) Hopefully, it will be easy so that Friday morning we can test again, and maybe, maybe *cross my fingers* I will be able to test a couple times during the day by myself. I bought a whole bunch of freeze dry treats so *cross my fingers even more!* Otherwise, it will be a fun weekend for poor Kit as we will test away.

Is there a particular sequence for getting an AMPS or PMPS? I know its pre-shot, but its pre-feeding too right? And is it immediately before? Just making sure, cuz I'm so clueless. And this weekend, would it be a good idea to do a curve, and test every two hours?

PS. I found methyl B-12 is sold at a bunch of places right near my house...so hopefully we can get our hand on some tomorrow and Kitten can begin his way to walking again!
 
Yep the order is test feed shoot. You want to test before feeding because food will cause the numbers to spike as the food is digested but will then drop back down again, so you want to shoot on a number that isn't influenced by food. I shoot while Musette's face is buried in her food dish and she never even looks up or pauses her eating.

I try to get it all done within about 15 minutes of testing, some folks are a lot quicker, but I have 13 cats, a large dog and a husband to feed in the mornings...lol.

The usual morning routine is..roll over in bed grab the test kit, test Musette (I'm lucky she sleeps with us), get out of bed, take dog outside to potty, start hubby's breakfast, while it cooks feed cats, and shoot Musette, feed husband, bring dog back inside, feed dog, and then eat myself...all is accomplished in under 30 minutes most days.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
WOW, I'd love to learn how you manage all that in the mornings! I only have a husband and one cat and I can barely fit it all in lol. That's absolutely awesome!

So tomorrow, tester in hand....should I do the rice sock warmer? Or should I just shoot and hope for the best on the first try?

Time to go read the manual! I'm actually super interested in all this...its amazing how much I knew nothing about this. And its amazing how many times I've taught my classes about diabetes, etc - funny how that works sometimes.

Kitten is acting up this evening. When giving his shots, he is really fidgety now. Even though he has his face buried in food, he still flinches when the needle goes in and he begins moving around all over the place. We've tried treats, food, comfy spot, holding him, I dont know. Its getting worse with each shot. Anything else that I can try?

We just found out that he pee'd on the sofa. Must be because I had moved his litter box downstairs to its original spot in the basement and he has a bit of difficulty walking after using it, so knowing this, he just went in the easiest spot (I had moved the box upstairs for the last week, because of this difficulty, but didn't want the guests to be walking into it, so I moved it back today). I checked the box, and he had used it earlier in the day, so I dont know what changed this evening. After I moved it upstairs, he went again, and pee'd quite a bit again - not a flood, but a bit.
 
If you think it is interesting now wait until you start testing, it is fasinating to watch their BGs throughout the day....lol In the beginning I would try warming the ear first, that will give you the best chance of success.

I sneak up on Musette for shots, but she makes it easy, as the little Princess has deemed that it is beneath her to eat on the floor with the common housecats. So she eats on my husband's bedside table. So I just sit on the bed and pet her down her side, then quickly tent and shoot. Do you shoot in the scruff or on the side? Musette would fight me with her scruff but I can tent and shoot anywhere down her side and she doesn't even look up.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
In the scruff. Havent tried anywhere else cuz this is the only place the vet asst mentioned. Maybe ill try the side. Can it be anywhere down the side essentially? Just tent and shoot?
 
Pretty much, anywhere you can get ahold of loose skin, I kind of hit the neighborhood between where her ribs end and her hips begin. Musette hates to have her scruff grabbed but then again when I adopted her she had marks on her neck from a collar that was to tight, so I can see why she dislikes her neck messed with.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
So that was discouraging :sad: I spent all afternoon reading my new BG meter's manual and massaging Kit's ear, and placing the lacet device by his ear - anything I could to make sure that I calmed him (and myself more likely) for our first test this evening. My husband (Kevin) came home and we pet Kit and made sure he was comfy and...so far so good. I loaded up the lancet device, held it to his ear - he was actually staying! And click! Nothing. Hmmm. I pressed the button again in the air, and heard a louder click and realized that I hadn't pressed the button hard enough the first time. So did this not happen like 7 times!? I swear I was pressing it all the way, but each time I would realize that I wasn't. Poor Kitten, he kept staying, and we'd give him a couple of treats every other prick. Then finally, I said, "this button will be pressed hard if its the last thing I do today!" and "louder click" - bam! hit the hear. Only thing was that it was almost in the middle of his ear...not between the vein and the edge like it was supposed to. I guess I didn't allot for the space that the actual lancet device tip thing took up. By this time, I think I was traumatizing the cat too much so we let it go....little red dot in the middle of his ear and all. We will try again tomorrow. I dont know if maybe I shouldve kept going until I got it, but I was stressing myself out too a bit. Poor guy, I can't blame him for not wanting to sit still during his insulin shot right after (so even that got delayed 30 min b/c he just wouldnt stay).

All this time I was worrying that he wouldn't stay, when the actual problem it seems is that I dont know how to properly press a button lol. Hopefully tomorrow goes better. :YMSIGH:
 
Hi guys and welcome from us! You got a ton of great advice here and it sounds like you guys are really on your way! Don't feel to discouraged by the first few attempts at testing. It can be hard .. some people on here free lance poke, meaning they don't use the lancing device, but rather the lancet alone with just a quick poke on the edge of the ear.

It sounds like kitten is taking this all in stride .. much better then mocha ever did! She took her tests like a pro, but that silly cat certainly knew when we were coming for a spot check or to give her insulin! Every single day, twice a day she had us running from one end of this house to the other end trying to catch her .. It never failed that by the time we caught her, but me and peter were exhausted and breathing hard .. :lol: It took us 22 months of shots and spot checks, but thanks to the people on this board, mocha is now off the juice!

Give kitten some extra hugs and kisses tonight and know tomorrow starts a brand new day!
 
I agree with Devon - I could never figure out the darn device so I just free hand it. I find it's quicker and easier to do and I'm in control of how much pressure to use when poking. Now, I will suggest if you free hand, that you take the warming sock you made and place it behind Kitten's ear - this way if you pierce rather than poke - you stab the sock and not your finger.

As I have a tendency to place my fingers behind the ear when poking and well, I've stabbed myself many a time.

If you need to use the device - then put it on the highest setting and keep the cover off, these are tips I've heard may help.
 
This morning, after 3 attempts, I did get some blood, and I did poke it in the right spot! But it wasn't enough for a reading. And I think Kitten hated me after the process. We tried to burrito him at one point too, and he looked like he wanted to kill me... I'm going to try again today by being home alone. I'm going to try once again with the device and then attempt freehand (maybe? --- it kind of freaks me out that I may pierce and will really hurt him)

I read the entire thread with Teresa and Poopy - it made me feel a lot better to hear all the advice and to know that its hard for everyone at the beginning. I was so upset after I, once again, couldn't get a reading. Is taking a couple of days going to affect him in the sense of continuing his insulin at 1U/2x? My vet just emailed me reminding me to bring him in for the glucose curve and I responded that I will be home testing for the time being. I had a nightmare that Kitten suffered because he should have gone in for his curve on Thursday and it took me longer than that to get a reading.
 
The lancet device needs something to strike against. I put my finger behind the ear and let the lancet strike the edge of the ear but it's more like I'm trying to poke my finger. I'm not really sure how to describe it. If there's nothing to strike against the ear is floppy and the poke isn't successful. Without a backing the lancet is simply moving the ear back and forth and not poking.
 
tuckers mom said:
The lancet device needs something to strike against.
Click to expand...

I always held the rice sock under the ear and firmly poked from the furry side. Some people use a cosmetic square or a folded piece of kleenex or paper towel. You are not hurting your cat by poking the ear with a lancet :smile:

What brand meter did you buy? Are you using the lancet device that came in the kit? Have you tried all the depth settings? Some lancets are just too thin to give you enough blood from a cat's ear. Here's a lancet guage chart and what lancet devices they are compatible with: http://www.walgreens.com/marketing/library/centers/diabetes/lancets.jsp 28 gauge is a good size to use. You could even try a completely different lancet device with matching lancets. Some devices work better than others. I like the AccuChek SoftClix. Most pharmacies sell lancet devices. Don't buy the CVS generic one, though.

Are you warming the ear up really realy REALLY well? Warm ears bleed best. A rice sock works great and easy to make. Think floppy catnip square-like. Take a small sock or fabric square and fill with 1/4 to 1/2 cup of uncooked rice (not the instant/microwave/boil in bag type) or dried beans or uncooked oatmeal. Knot or sew the opening closed. Heat in microwave until toasty warm but not hot. Start with 10 seconds and adjust the time as needed. Apply the warm rice sock to the ear for a minute if you can. Then prick the edge of the ear.
 
When I first started testing mocha by myself, I had a hard time holding the lancing device, her ear, and something behind it .. So I learned to wrap up the finger that was going to be on the inside of her ear with a bandaid .. Just enough padding so I won't poke myself, but yet, something I didn't have to manage to hold either .. Over time I found that I didn't need the bandaid and had one square of toilet paper folded into a square and was able to hold that half on the inside of her ear and half hanging out of it .. that way, once I was dong poking (and gently massaging to get the drop of blood) I could easily fold the T.P. directly over the top of her ear, and press down with enough pressure to stop any bruising ..
 
I got blood today!! TWICE!! I did it without the cap, still using the lancet device tho (I tried without, couldn't do it...mostly cuz of me panicking). I think it was the warming that did it. I held the sock there longer. Thanks for your advice!!!!! I'm beginning to relax :)
 
so what's the results of the tests - don't tease us!

congrats on getting blood - now that you understand how to do it, it will get easier and you will even train the ear to bleed - also, sometimes one ear bleeds better than another.
 
I ROCK! dancing_cat . Sorry, just so excited that I figured out how to do this. I'm officially in the Vampire Club....heck maybe the most excited member at this time lol.

His numbers worry me, but I know I have to do this for a couple of days to see what the progression is. He started at 414 on Christmas Eve, and this is where we are today:

+5 385 (but he had eaten a tiny bit about 20 min prior...i didn't want to stop him cuz at this point, i thought it could be all day before i actually got blood)
+7 301
+9 391

So its still super high! Patience is something I'm not really good at....can you tell? I will test PMPS. Should I continue testing so often for the next couple of days? Yes right?
 
Congrats and sorry I had to laugh...Look at Musette's spreadsheet and you will see how often she is tested and its been 6 months...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
have you seen this?
file.php


and look at you! food switched to canned low carb, injections going and started on a safe low dose, testing done, meth B12 figured out, spreadsheet linked . . wahoo! doing the happy dance for you.

woot.gif


when you're ready, we can teach you about how lantus works and how to hopefully, work towards remission on it. in the meantime, pats on your back for mastering so much in a week!
 
Thanks!!!! It's been a rough ride....and quite a few tears -- but today I received some great words in the Relaxed Lantus forum and I got myself up, clear minded and determined. After the morning battle was over, it was happy dancing all the way!

Thanks for the pic! I've been good with one ear, and now I get blood almost every time (except AMPSs for some reason, but I think its because he wants food and not to sit, relax, and get stabbed). Would love to try the other ear, because this one is all red and yucky now, but a part of me doesn't want to jinx my luck.
 
And MethB12 bought and ready to be tried tomorrow! This, I'm excited for....mostly cuz its something that can help that doesn't involve blood or poking or shaking hands lol

If there's someone that knows a bit about MB12, I could only find 5mg and 1mg pills. I read about Jasper and she was giving 3mg. Kit's about 14lbs now, so he would be in that 3ish range if I keep things the same as was for Jasper. So I bought the 5mg and hope to cut them in half - so 2.5mg....think that's ok??? I thought cutting one in half would be easier than trying to crush and hide 3 pills in Kit's food. I guess we'll see what happens.
 
For a friend's kitty we are using the 5mg and cutting them in half and the kitty is doing great. Now able to jump on the bed, so I would say yes, the 2.5mg would be fine.
 
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