Kisa: Report 1

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Derek

Member Since 2013
I'm not exactly sure what I'm supposed to be posting here, but these are the tri-weekly progress reports of Kisa's home treatment. I haven't noticed much of a behavioral shift in him since he started his insulin, pretty much the only strange thing is that he purrs during the blood check and shot. His spreadsheet is listed in the signature, and links to previous posts are here

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=107271&p=1136328#p1136328

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=114177&p=1202735#p1202735

Since I put him back on his original 2 units dosage, his numbers have been getting lower more frequently, which means he hasn't had to have shots at certain points. When the new strips arrive, I'll be doing 4 tests a day, which will be listed on his spreadsheet
 
Hi Derek, and welcome.

I have read the material you posted, the previous posts, and your spreadsheet. I have quite a lot of thoughts on your dear Kisa, but before I give any advice, a couple of questions:

What does Kisa eat, specifically? What do you use for treats? What meter are you using to test with?

And finally (for now), we really need to talk you into getting some mid cycle tests. Dosage changes are based on the lowest number the cat reaches during the 12 hour cycle, (called the nadir) and we have NO idea what Kisa's is.

As mean as it might be to say, you might need to set an alarm and get up and do some tests, at least for a little while.
 
He eats Friskies canned food, flaked tuna, and flaked tuna with egg. Right now I think he has a friskies party mix for treats, though he's almost out of those. When I do his tests, I give him to my mother to hold, and if he's still there (without squirming loose) when everything is ready, he gets a treat. He gets two if he doesn't put up a huge fuss with his test. I use the meter supplied to me by DCIN, I'll have to check it a bit later, and I should have more strips by Wednesday to do extra testing with
 
Welcome Derek and extra sweet Kisa.

I have several thoughts as well but please forgive me this evening if I don't go into them at the moment as it is extremely late for me and I was about to turn in for the evening. But what Linda doesn't cover I will go over in the morning. But I did want to stop by and welcome you to Relaxed Lantus.

Again forgive me for making this short but The Fur Gang servitude begins early.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
FYI, Derek and his sweet boy Kisa are DCIN clients. He talks about the tri-weekly progress reports because under DCIN's assistance rules, a client needs to be active on a forum, which I have told Derek means talking to the folks on FDMB at least three times/week.

The meter they are using is the Arkray Glucocard01, which is the manufacturer's unbranded version of the Walmart Relion Confirm. DCIN allows its client 125 strips/month, so please be judicious about asking for BG tests.

Thank you all for helping Derek and Kisa.
 
Okay a couple quick things right off the bat if you are having to skip shots because of low numbers your dose is too high. Second we don't raise a dose by full units but by .25-.50 at a time. Jumping from 1 u to 2u may have skipped over his ideal dose. The tricky part is too much insulin and too little can look exactly alike.

Insulin is unlike pharmaceutical drugs as it is a hormone. More isn't always better.

I know you've already done this but I'm going to ask you to do it again...with a little extra testing. Please roll him back to 1u for a week once you get new strips. But this time I'm going to ask for 3 tests per day until you have a day off then I'd like you to run a curve where you test every 2 hours from one shot to the next. It's very important that we find Kisa's nadir when working with the depot insulins like Lantus and Levemir. It is that nadir that tells if the dose is too high or too low or just right. As far as the tests during the week other than preshots the other one per day can be anywhere and I actually suggest varying it. For example one day it might be right before you turn in for the night the next might be right as you walk in the door from work and yet the third day could be as your just hanging out with him. A lot of the time with mine I'll grab a spot check while we're hanging out watching t.v. All points of data right now is beneficial.

Now food and treats. The dry crunchie Party Mix/Temptation type treats have to go. They are no better for him that dry food. You'll want to replace them with something low carb. With my horde I use plain boiled chicken breast, chunks of raw chicken, sardines, plain boiled salad shrimp, water packed tuna and for a special treat tiny bites of low fat cream cheese. A lot of other folks use freeze dried pure meat treats just with my 17 they don't fix my budget.

Next food ...yes the two flavors you are feeding are low carb but they are also fish. You want to limit how much fish you feed to about once or twice a week, especially with a male. The rotation that I use here is Friskies Mixed Grill, Poultry Platter, Supreme Supper, Country Style Dinner, Turkey & Giblet, Liver and Chicken dinner and then a fishy flavors. You want to limit fish because of the iodine and heavy metals in fish. As well as some cats become addicted to it and just like with humans too much of any one food isn't healthy.

Now getting all the way back to your original question about what to put in your condos (our name for the daily posts) Probably the easiest way to explain is to say go read a couple of the other folk's condo. But in general...in the title, the date, the cat's name and the bg readings throughout the day as you get them. Then the body of the post can be anything pretty much. How Kisa is acting, questions or even funny stories about Kisa or anything else you want to share and will help us get to know you and Kisa better.

Okay any questions for us?

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Okay, MommaofMuse got you going well this morning (sorry, I had a busy morning on the phone trying to get a cable tv issue solved!).

The freeze dried chicken breast treats that she mentioned can be a bit more economical if you buy the same product, but in the dog section. The pieces are bigger, but easy to break up by hand, and then you get more for your buck. My cats now prefer their wet food garnished with it, so I run it through the blender and keep it in a canister, then I can easily sprinkle a bit on top.

Yeah, Temptations are Kitty Crack as a pet store person called them. I asked her why they are so addictive, and she said they are full of salt. Not good for anyone.

I agree that Kisa is likely getting too much insulin. I just wanted to add that I did read your notes on the spreadsheet and I do understand that the vet told you to go that way. Honestly, we hear about vets giving advice for too much insulin for cats all the time. My own vet told me to go from 1 unit to 3 after only a week on insulin. Had I listened to her I would have a dead cat, no question.

Roll on back to 1 unit, and get rid of the bad treats. Make sure any food you buy says Pate on it (which means its mostly meat). And yes, many cats are allergic to fish, and males can get urinary tract issues from too much fish, so vary that diet.

Feel free to pepper us with questions, that is why we are here! You are doing a great job, and we will be along for the ride.
 
Also, what time zone are you in, and what is your usual time of day to give insulin? We could see if one of us is typically available around that time to give advise if you are unsure as to shoot that shot or not. So in that case you would test 15 mins before shot time, post, wait for advise and go from there.
 
On more question and then I will leave you alone.. how is Kisa's health overall? Is he active? eating well? Have his teeth been checked recently?
 
He's as active as he's ever been, he'll have a dental checkup at the next vet visit. I tried to get advice on treats, but the vet basically told me 'no treats are good for diabetic cats'. I tried the freeze dried meat treats, and he won't eat them. Specific canned foods would be good, preferably friskies, as I can buy them cheap in bulk
 
I gave you a list of what I feed which is Friskies but in case you missed it.

Friskies pate flavors
Mixed Grill
Poultry Platter
Turkey & Giblet
Country Style Dinner
Liver and Chicken
Supreme Supper

Friskies fish Flavors
Mariner's catch
Salmon
Ocean White fish and tuna
Sea Captain Choice
Seafood supper

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Okay, Mel gave you a great list on the food. The treats, I have given you one, but there are other... there is freeze dried shrimps, chicken, beef. All are 100 percent protein, and no carbs. And sorry, but the vet is wrong. I know you are just trusting a professional, which usually makes sense, but we have real life day to day experience here, and cats who are not only thriving, but in remission and no longer insulin dependent. We know of what we speak.

Your 9am is 6am for me. I will be up some of the time, but not all of the time. I will sure watch for you though.

If you are in a pickle and need advice, please do add the 911 icon to your first post of the day. That will alert people to read your post first and offer help if they can. If the emergency happens after you make your first post, just go to your first post on the list, click EDIT and then add the 911 and whatever info you want to add.

This is also how you add information to a normal day... edit the first post, for example, to add another test result such as "AMPS 150 +6 125" etc.
 
Perhaps it would also help if we introduce ourselves like we ask newbies to so you'll have an idea of where our advice is coming from. :-D

I'm as you have guessed already am Mel ...short for Melody. I currently have 3 diabetics..Maxwell adopted from DCIN ...OTJ 4 years as of this coming November first, Autumn also adopted from DCIN...2 years well regulated but will never come off insulin. Cassanova adopted as a diabetic from a private party. He's been with me 6 months and has gone from the 11u bid his vet had him on to less than 1u bid currently. He was also up to 37lbs when I adopted him from prescription dry diabetic food. And lastly my foster girl Cali who my own vet placed with me while her owner, also a client of my vet had surgery. Cali has been with me two months and has gone from 7u bid to .1u bid and I fully expect her to also go into remission before she goes back to her owner at the end of June. Besides my diabetics, I also care for two with heart conditions, one who is deaf, one who is blind and one who is epileptic. Yep there are more critter meds in my medicine cabinet than people meds.

As Linda said we here live feline diabetes 24/7 unlike vets who have to know everything that can and does go wrong with a vast variety of species.

If we don't personally know the answers to a question we probably know someone on here that does and will hunt them down for you.

Your 9 is my 8 so I'll be up and watching for you. Since I shoot 7/7 and my day starts at 5:40a.m.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Hi Derek and Kisa

You are in good hands with Mel and Linda. They are really good advice givers. I can offer a suggestion about treats. My sugar was in no way interested in freeze dried treats. In fact his reward was a good brushing instead. Then I found the Orijen freeze dried treats for cats and oh my... my sugar actually sits on his testing table and begs for me to test and shoot him - all for these treats. I order mine from Chewy (although right now they are out of the Originals). There are other flavors and these are simple and no carb but still drive all my critters cravings. I have to hide them in the oven or my civvie will work on the drawers or cabinets to get to them.

I know that you will be testing Kisa a little more often in between cycles - that's great!!! Do the best you can. We look forward to looking at those numbers to get a better picture of Kisa's needs.

Robin
 
Hi and welcome Derek and Kisa. I'm Holly and my sweet sugar cat is Max. Max had been diet controlled until last November/December when his BG #'s started going back up. He's been on Lantus since mid-December and is pretty well regulated. I still feel pretty knew to how Lantus works, but, as Robin already mentioned, you're in good hands with Mel and Linda.
 
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