Kidney disease and Diabtes

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Benshuman

Member Since 2015
Does anyone on here have a cat that has both diabetes and ckd or kidney failure? Mine has both and was wondering if there are any places that offer support for owners that have a cat with both both conditions. I have also heard kidney failure or disease mentioned as Dx I think but I have heard so many new things I have never heard before I have no idea.

Thanks,
Windy
 
Getting the diabetes under control is one of the best things you can do for their kidneys....the sooner they're kept under renal threshold, the better it is for kidney function
How hard is it to get the diabetes under control if the cat has to eat a low protein diet because of the kidney issues?
 
It's actually "old school thinking" that they should eat low protein if they have kidney disease unless it's VERY advanced. Feeding low protein only adds to muscle loss

What's more important is feeding a good low carb, LOW PHOSPHORUS food and getting the BG under the best control you can

If you look along the top of this spreadsheet, there's a tab for LC/low Phos foods...hopefully you can find a few that Ben likes!
 
I agree with what Chris has said. I have a cat who is a diabetic and has early CRD. I feed her a high protein, low carb and low phosphorus diet. I do a home prepared diet but there are many canned foods on the market that are suitable for your cat. Have a look at Weruva brand.
The most important thing I think is to get the Blood sugars under control and that eases the burden on the kidneys.
Also make sure your cat is drinking enough water. Water is very important to CRD cats. Put some extra water in the cats canned food is a good idea.
And have a look for the low phosphorus foods.
It is very doable. Keep posting and we will be only too happy to help. Good luck and welcome to FDMB.
 
I just started feeding Wellness Grain Free Turkey. I saw that listed on the chart. I will print out the chart. I was feeding him DM Savory and he liked that alot but the vet said dont feed that to him anymore. I also have classic fancy feast on hand for him. He was drinking alot of water but, he had fluid therapy yesterday and isnt really drinking water today. He has been eating his wet food. I feed him every 3 hours. When I found him I took him to the vet the xray showed his stomach was empty except for a little pebble and air. He is still recovering from starvation and was severly dehydrated. The glucose levels are not under control yet. I am still working on that.

On the chart it mentioned MC and LC near some of the foods and I think HC. Does that stand for high carbs, low carbs, medium carbs? I couldnt find an exlanation.
 
Omg, I want that kitty. For some reason the most needy ones are the ones I always want. You're an angel.
Thanks, he is a very sweet boy. I am doing the best I can for him but its so tricky with the food and glucose. And I have to learn how to give fluids and poke him for glucose. Honestly I am a bit worried I will hurt him. I dont know how all of you are able to do this. I am trying though.
 
Thanks, he is a very sweet boy. I am doing the best I can for him but its so tricky with the food and glucose. And I have to learn how to give fluids and poke him for glucose. Honestly I am a bit worried I will hurt him. I dont know how all of you are able to do this. I am trying though.
He looks like a sweet boy and he is lucky he is yours. Do the best you can and keep asking questions. I have learned so much here.
 
On the chart it mentioned MC and LC near some of the foods and I think HC. Does that stand for high carbs, low carbs, medium carbs? I couldnt find an exlanation.

You got it! LC=low carb, MC=medium carb and HC=high carb!!

LC is under 10%
MC is generally under about 16%
HC is usually above 20%
 
And Fancy Feast, while low carb, is pretty high in phosphorus...there are better choices out there or if you can't find anything low carb/low phos that Ben will eat, you can use phosphorus binders that prevent the body from absorbing as much of the phosphorus
 
And Fancy Feast, while low carb, is pretty high in phosphorus...there are better choices out there or if you can't find anything low carb/low phos that Ben will eat, you can use phosphorus binders that prevent the body from absorbing as much of the phosphorus
I ordered Epakitin, I read about it on Tanya's site. He likes the Wellness Turkey. I will try some more food on the low carb low phosphorus list. Because he has diabetes and ckd does that mean he will only live another year or two? The vet said he probably only has that amount of time left but I am hoping he has alot longer.
 
China's had not so great kidney values since we started this dance and she's still going strong over 2 1/2 years later

It's not something we can ever guarantee, but you're taking the right steps now in getting Ben's diabetes under control and doing what you can to protect his kidneys

I think Max @tiffmaxee has been dealing with kidney disease/diabetes even longer
 
My baby max just found out today he's in the early stages of kidney disease. Scares me do bad.
He went in for test I thought he was going out of remission. Diabetes is great no problem there. Then we got the phone call the rest of his test were in. Took him off ff food on evo wet and wellness wet.
I'm scared worried and been doing so much reading today my head spinning.
 
Hi. Actually Max was just diagnosed with CKD about three months ago. I switched his food to Mauri kangaroo, Wellness Turkey, Friskies SD which unfortunately us discontinued, and Nulo chicken and Turkey which are all quite a bit less phosphorus than the fancy feast he had been eating but not nearly as low as I would like. He was diagnosed with diabetes almost two years ago after having chronic pancreatitis for six years. His BG is pretty well controlled yet he still got CKD but he is 18 years old. He makes 3/3 cats that eventually ended up with CKD. My other two passed on from cancer.
 
@Jeanne ....remember when you first got the diabetes diagnosis? I'm sure you were scared and overwhelmed then too, but just like the diabetes, kidney disease can be managed and Max could have many years of good quality life left to share with you
 
Funny to see another Max in the same situation. I've been through this before but I'm still rather upset.
 
Yes your right I was very scared then also. And thanks to all of you we made to remission and still there.
I guess we love them so much it hurts.
So many questions and being confused just makes it hard.
 
Hi Windy,
If you are not home testing the blood sugars I highly recommend you do. Most people in the US use the Relion Micro or the Relion Prime monitors from Walmart.
Here is a link how to test
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/testing-and-shooting-tips.85113/

Here is a link to setting up a spread sheet to enter the numbers. This will help people help you with dosing. If you have trouble setting it up, post and someone will help you.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

I see you are using Novalin insulin. That is a shorter acting insulin and is not really suitable for cats. Maybe you could ask your vet if you could change over to one of the long acting insulins which will be much better for Ben. Prozinc, Lantus or Levemir insulins are the ones that most of us use here for our cats and give the best results for your cat. And we dose the cat every 12 hours ie. Twice a day.

We have lots of cats here on the forum that have both diabetes and kidney disease and as far as I am aware they can live for several years after diagnosis with the kidney disease especially if caught early and if the correct treatment is started. So don't give up hope. Make sure your cat drinks plenty of water....very important, try and get the blood sugars regulated by changing to a better insulin and find a low phosphorus, low carb , high protein diet/ canned food he will eat.
Keep posting ....we love to help:):bighug:
 
ProZinc and BCP PZI are 2 other long acting insulins which may work well for cats, too.
If you go with Lantus or Levemir and are in the US, you may wish to purchase from Canada, at Mark's. Several of our members have had good experiences with them and the cost will be substantially lower.
 
I will ask again about the insulin, the last time I was told that Novalin is the recommended insulin for cats and dogs. I will write them down and ask that the vet looks them over. If I go in for fluids or glucose test I only get to talk to the techs. I am going in saturday for fluids.

Ben was being picky about food so I had to add DM savory to the Wellness Turkey. I am getting a glucose meter this weekend.

Is the protein in DM wet and dry food good quality? I was giving Ben the dry as treats since he cant have the same treats my other cats have. I am not sure which diet to cook for him now for the diabetes or the ckd. I know low phosphorus, low carbs and a good quality protein.

Whats odd is Ben seems to be more alert and perkier at night then during the morning after insulin and during the day.
 
My baby max just found out today he's in the early stages of kidney disease. Scares me do bad.
He went in for test I thought he was going out of remission. Diabetes is great no problem there. Then we got the phone call the rest of his test were in. Took him off ff food on evo wet and wellness wet.
I'm scared worried and been doing so much reading today my head spinning.
Hi Jeanne,

I hope Max will be okay. Its so scary when they have things like diabetes and kidney disease. I dont know about you but I feel helpless because I cant cure my cat from either health issues. It would be great if we could give them a shot or a pill and the diabetes and kidney disease goes away.
 
Novalin insulin is definitely not the best insulin for cats. If your vet thinks it is, he is way behind in the current treatment of feline diabetes.
If you are able to get your vet to swap to one of the better insulins, post here for the starting dose as your vet will probably not know that if he does not know the insulins.
Is the DM food you mention the prescription food? If so I don't think the protein in that food is as good as many of the over the counter cat foods and it is more expensive as well. Also dry food is not good for cats especially CRD cats who need moisture. It is usually much higher in carbs as well.
 
Novalin insulin is definitely not the best insulin for cats. If your vet thinks it is, he is way behind in the current treatment of feline diabetes.
If you are able to get your vet to swap to one of the better insulins, post here for the starting dose as your vet will probably not know that if he does not know the insulins.
Is the DM food you mention the prescription food? If so I don't think the protein in that food is as good as many of the over the counter cat foods and it is more expensive as well. Also dry food is not good for cats especially CRD cats who need moisture. It is usually much higher in carbs as well.
Yes the DM is the prescription one. Ben still wants to eat the savory selects wet food and I am having to add it to the other wellness wet food to get him to eat.

How much are the other insulins? I saw lantus listed at $288. The Novalin is $24.88. I am not in a financial position to be spending alot of money right now and am trying to do the best I can for him. I am having to use money I saved on Ben for when I first found him. And now I have to have him on fluids twice a week. I hate that I even have to look at the financial cost.
 
Yes the DM is the prescription one. Ben still wants to eat the savory selects wet food and I am having to add it to the other wellness wet food to get him to eat.

How much are the other insulins? I saw lantus listed at $288. The Novalin is $24.88. I am not in a financial position to be spending alot of money right now and am trying to do the best I can for him. I am having to use money I saved on Ben for when I first found him. And now I have to have him on fluids twice a week. I hate that I even have to look at the financial cost.
That always sucks when we have to weigh in the cost, but the reality is that we have to. Do the best you can as you have been doing. :bighug:
 
Epakitin is not a binder I would use. It is calcium based and could cause elevated calcium, should only be used for 6 months, and is less effective than aluminum hydroxide (ALOH). ALOH is a more effective binder and the one I use.

It would be very helpful if you could post the kidney values: BUN, Crea, also RBC, potassium, and phosphorus values----this will give me a better idea of where the kidney disease is currently and help guide appropriate suggestions. Also, as for water intake, it is imperative your cat continue to drink water. I bought a fountain bowl and that helped immensely so it is something you might want to consider. I too add water to Squeaker's food. I add 2 oz per 5.25 oz of canned food and run it through a blender.

Here is another group for kidney disease: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Feline-CRF-Support/info
 
That always sucks when we have to weigh in the cost, but the reality is that we have to. Do the best you can as you have been doing. :bighug:
Thanks. I hate reality. My situation is just temporary and in a year or two I should be better off. But its the here and now thats not so easy.
 
Epakitin is not a binder I would use. It is calcium based and could cause elevated calcium, should only be used for 6 months, and is less effective than aluminum hydroxide (ALOH). ALOH is a more effective binder and the one I use.

It would be very helpful if you could post the kidney values: BUN, Crea, also RBC, potassium, and phosphorus values----this will give me a better idea of where the kidney disease is currently and help guide appropriate suggestions. Also, as for water intake, it is imperative your cat continue to drink water. I bought a fountain bowl and that helped immensely so it is something you might want to consider. I too add water to Squeaker's food. I add 2 oz per 5.25 oz of canned food and run it through a blender.

Here is another group for kidney disease: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Feline-CRF-Support/info
I have to get all the values from the vet Ben wont drink out of the fountain, he will only drink out of a stainless steel bowl. I change the water several times a day and I still have the fountain with him in case he ever wants to drink out f it. Dont cats have to be tested first before using the ALOH? I read somewhere that there is something in ALOH that can cause elevation of something. I cant even remember what it is now. I do add some water to his food.
 
Can a cat with ckd and diabetes have cat grass or wheat grass? I have bought the wheat grass at the store for my cats and birds and they love it.
 
Also, just FYI, if you do switch insulins or have other prescriptions you need for your kitty, you can get a prescription discount card and call around different pharmacies to see which one has the lowest prices: http://unarxcard.com/create-card.php Using that card at CVS made the Lantus a lot cheaper for us, but the cost varies...
How much do you pay for Lantus and is it true it only lasts 28 days. Thanks for the link I will check it out.
 
I have to get all the values from the vet Ben wont drink out of the fountain, he will only drink out of a stainless steel bowl. I change the water several times a day and I still have the fountain with him in case he ever wants to drink out f it. Dont cats have to be tested first before using the ALOH? I read somewhere that there is something in ALOH that can cause elevation of something. I cant even remember what it is now. I do add some water to his food.

If Ben likes stainless steel that is great. Just whatever it takes to keep him drinking.

Yes you do need the labs, always get a copy everytime you have them run.

ALOH is the most effective and doesn't elevated anything. Epakitine is calcium based and can elevate calcium.
 
Epakitin is not a binder I would use. It is calcium based and could cause elevated calcium, should only be used for 6 months, and is less effective than aluminum hydroxide (ALOH). ALOH is a more effective binder and the one I use.

It would be very helpful if you could post the kidney values: BUN, Crea, also RBC, potassium, and phosphorus values----this will give me a better idea of where the kidney disease is currently and help guide appropriate suggestions. Also, as for water intake, it is imperative your cat continue to drink water. I bought a fountain bowl and that helped immensely so it is something you might want to consider. I too add water to Squeaker's food. I add 2 oz per 5.25 oz of canned food and run it through a blender.

Here is another group for kidney disease: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Feline-CRF-Support/info
Hi Anita,

I just talked to the vet. Ben's info is

Bun 79
Crea 2.8
RBC 6.29
Potassiusm 4.1
Phosphorus 6
Calcium 10.8
They dont do kidney function percentages.

He said Ben is inbetween mild and moderate and they dont do stages there.

Where do I buy ALOH and what brand? Amazon just brings up Epakitin when I type in aluminum hydroxide
 
If Ben likes stainless steel that is great. Just whatever it takes to keep him drinking.

Yes you do need the labs, always get a copy everytime you have them run.

ALOH is the most effective and doesn't elevated anything. Epakitine is calcium based and can elevate calcium.
I have a stainless steel pet fountain for him and the most he has done is sniff it. My other cats and dogs love there stainless steel fountains.
 
My Max only sniffs the water fountain also. But he does love to drink water out of pretty dessert bowls. So there now in a lot of rooms in the house. Also noticed he likes ice cubes in water he drinks more.
 
Hi Anita,

I just talked to the vet. Ben's info is

Bun 79
Crea 2.8

RBC 6.29
Potassiusm 4.1
Phosphorus 6
Calcium 10.8
They dont do kidney function percentages.

He said Ben is inbetween mild and moderate and they dont do stages there.

Where do I buy ALOH and what brand? Amazon just brings up Epakitin when I type in aluminum hydroxide

By the numbers, Ben is Stage 2 bordering Stage 3.

With a phosphorus of 6, you need to start binders. Your goal is to get the phosphorus under 6 if possible. The dosage is 14-28 mg per lb per day. (1/4 tsp of ALOH powder is approx. 300 mg). As an example, say Ben is 10 lbs so the dosage for the whole day would be 280 mg. So you would add 1/8 tsp to two meals ( a smidge extra is ok as it would be nearly impossible to get exactly 280 mg). The binder needs to be in the food as it is consumed or orally dosed after eating. I would use the higher dose of 28 mg per lb until you get the level below 6. You can get ALOH from a variety of sources, this from Tanya's site:
Thriving Pets in the USA sells 500g (1.1 lbs) of aluminium hydroxide dry gel for US$79.95 plus shipping. They also sell 1 oz at a time, as well as capsule or liquid (oral) formulations (these require a prescription, which the gel formulation does not) . If you enter the word "tanya" (without the ") in the promotional code box, you will receive a 10% discount on orders over US$55. Shipping is free for orders over US$55 after the discount.
I know a pound seems like a lot, but it will last for a long time.

Keep an eye on the potassium, it is fine now but can drop. Watch the calcium also it is getting on the high end of the scale. If it goes higher the first thing to try is changing food.

Anemia is another issue to be on the look out for. Ben's RBC is good but you can start now to add B12 and B Complex once a day into his food. B12 is 500mg and B Complex is 1/10th of a capsule. Given that Ben is also diabetic just like Squeaker you need to look for products without sugar. I use Solgar Brand from a local health food store. Make sure to get the B12 that is just cobalamin rather than the cyanocobalamin. Do not use the Yarrow B despite the fact it is the preferred methylcobalamin---------it contains sugar.

I also give Squeaker 1.25 mg of Omega 3 twice a day. I use the Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Pet formula. Again I get this at my local health food store.

I would also suggest that you begin to familiarize yourself with the process of giving sub-q fluids and begin to monitor Ben for dehydration----pull up the skin on the back if his neck and see how quickly it falls back into place and/or roll the skin between your fingers. If it goes back into place quickly hydration is adequate; on the other hand if the skin sticks together then he is dehydrated. You can also feel his gums if they feel tacky that indicates dehydration. You can find wonderful how videos on you tube.

I know that Tanya's website is overwhelming in the volume of information, start digesting it in little bits now. One of the many areas that will benefit you right now is the nausea and stomach acid information. This way you can monitor and be ready when the issue occurs.
 
By the numbers, Ben is Stage 2 bordering Stage 3.

With a phosphorus of 6, you need to start binders. Your goal is to get the phosphorus under 6 if possible. The dosage is 14-28 mg per lb per day. (1/4 tsp of ALOH powder is approx. 300 mg). As an example, say Ben is 10 lbs so the dosage for the whole day would be 280 mg. So you would add 1/8 tsp to two meals ( a smidge extra is ok as it would be nearly impossible to get exactly 280 mg). The binder needs to be in the food as it is consumed or orally dosed after eating. I would use the higher dose of 28 mg per lb until you get the level below 6. You can get ALOH from a variety of sources, this from Tanya's site:
Thriving Pets in the USA sells 500g (1.1 lbs) of aluminium hydroxide dry gel for US$79.95 plus shipping. They also sell 1 oz at a time, as well as capsule or liquid (oral) formulations (these require a prescription, which the gel formulation does not) . If you enter the word "tanya" (without the ") in the promotional code box, you will receive a 10% discount on orders over US$55. Shipping is free for orders over US$55 after the discount.
I know a pound seems like a lot, but it will last for a long time.

Keep an eye on the potassium, it is fine now but can drop. Watch the calcium also it is getting on the high end of the scale. If it goes higher the first thing to try is changing food.

Anemia is another issue to be on the look out for. Ben's RBC is good but you can start now to add B12 and B Complex once a day into his food. B12 is 500mg and B Complex is 1/10th of a capsule. Given that Ben is also diabetic just like Squeaker you need to look for products without sugar. I use Solgar Brand from a local health food store. Make sure to get the B12 that is just cobalamin rather than the cyanocobalamin. Do not use the Yarrow B despite the fact it is the preferred methylcobalamin---------it contains sugar.

I also give Squeaker 1.25 mg of Omega 3 twice a day. I use the Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Pet formula. Again I get this at my local health food store.

I would also suggest that you begin to familiarize yourself with the process of giving sub-q fluids and begin to monitor Ben for dehydration----pull up the skin on the back if his neck and see how quickly it falls back into place and/or roll the skin between your fingers. If it goes back into place quickly hydration is adequate; on the other hand if the skin sticks together then he is dehydrated. You can also feel his gums if they feel tacky that indicates dehydration. You can find wonderful how videos on you tube.

I know that Tanya's website is overwhelming in the volume of information, start digesting it in little bits now. One of the many areas that will benefit you right now is the nausea and stomach acid information. This way you can monitor and be ready when the issue occurs.
Ben weighs a little over 8.5 pounds. I am getting Phos-Bind, I saw it listed on Tanyas site. I am learning how to do sub q fluids and glucose testing, honestly those make me nervous doing them on my own. I will look into getting the vitamins. I am still working out his food right now.
 
Is it normal for the cat's needle puncture site to be leaking fluids after fluid therapy? It just seems to be leaking a lot but the vet tech said it's normal. I don't remember it leaking on Wednesday after treatment. Will a cat in Ben's condition need fluid therapy for life?
 
Is it normal for the cat's needle puncture site to be leaking fluids after fluid therapy? It just seems to be leaking a lot but the vet tech said it's normal. I don't remember it leaking on Wednesday after treatment. Will a cat in Ben's condition need fluid therapy for life?

When I remove the needle I slide it out and immediately pinch the skin. You can also use a cotton ball and apply pressure.

What needles are you using? The 18 gauge from the vet? I use Terumo UTW needles. If you want the link for them I can send that to you. I pay just under $9 plus shipping for 100.

I just noticed you said he gets fluid twice a week. How much per dose, the standard of 100 mL? It is actually better to give the fluids daily. So if Ben is getting 100 mL twice a week, consider giving 50 mL for 4 days.

Yes, once dehydration has begun fluids are typically a lifelong requirement. Something else to consider is asking your vet for a prescription for the fluids. You can typically get them cheaper by ordering online.
 
When I remove the needle I slide it out and immediately pinch the skin. You can also use a cotton ball and apply pressure.

What needles are you using? The 18 gauge from the vet? I use Terumo UTW needles. If you want the link for them I can send that to you. I pay just under $9 plus shipping for 100.

I just noticed you said he gets fluid twice a week. How much per dose, the standard of 100 mL? It is actually better to give the fluids daily. So if Ben is getting 100 mL twice a week, consider giving 50 mL for 4 days.

Yes, once dehydration has begun fluids are typically a lifelong requirement. Something else to consider is asking your vet for a prescription for the fluids. You can typically get them cheaper by ordering online.
I am getting his fluid therapy at the vet right now until I learn how to do it. I have no idea what gauge needle they use, I will ask. He gets 200 ml twice a week, this just started on Wednesday. Once I am able to do it on my own I was going to look into getting a prescription and buying the bags online, they are a lot cheaper then the vets office. On Wednesday the fluids lasted in him for 7 or 8 hours but today they seemed to get absorbed a lot quicker and to me it seemed a lot leaked out but that didn't happen last time. Are the Terumo UTW needles the ones that are required? I have no idea. Does it matter which lactated ringer solution I get?
 
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