Ketchie-Dental 12-7-12 Made it okay! UPDATE

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Jean and Charcoal

Jean and Charcoal

Member Since 2009
Hi Everyone,

I started my 17 yr. old Ketchie on Cyproheptadine yesterday, and since then she has been very weak and wobbly. She just fell off of my sink in the bathroom. :(

She had been on Mirtazapine, but she was not eating anymore, even with that, so I had her to the vet's yesterday and she put her on Clindamycin (instead of Baytril) and also the Cypro (instead of Mirtazapine).

She is down to 8.3 pounds (she was 12 pounds or so at her best weight). She has a terribly abscessed tooth in her upper right mouth, and that is why we think she is not eating, and she is in so much pain. I have some Buprenex for that, but I don't know if I am just prolonging the agony for her. I almost was going to put her down yesterday, but did not have the heart. She is my little sweetheart.

Has anyone else had problems with the Cyproheptadine? I just gave her another half before she fell off of the sink.

Tomorrow I will give her fluids, although she is drinking pretty well. She did eat some today.

Please pray for my poor Ketchie. She has been about the best furbaby I have ever had. I just lost my 11 year old May-Belle 4 weeks ago today. She had a massive tumor inside her that took her so suddenly. I am so sad. It is especially hard around this time of year.

UPDATE:
12-7-12 6:40 pm eastern standard time

Took Ketchie for her dental today. Vet was amazed how well she did. LOTS of PUS and bleeding though. She is sooo wobbly, just starting to calm down a little now. Just gave her some Buprenex. She licked at a little of her FF chicken mashed fine with water added. She bled so much for a couple hours here at home. I called the vet, and she said she should slow down.

Anyone else have their cat so wobbly and bleeding so much right after a dental? I have never had a cat with a dental before.

Thanks for all the prayers and thoughts, and I hope she continues to improve.

Sad thing is I am a nervous wreck. My dil told me that if I took her for a dental today rather than put her down, that she felt I was an 'animal abuser'!!!! I was a mess all night after she emailed that to me. We get along great most of the time, but she wanted me to knock off 17 year old Ketchie today. She said she is too old for a dental. Like my son in law married to my daughter, just said to me, "Stop letting people get into your head and mess up your own thoughts and what you know you want to do." He is really right. I worry too much.

Any advice on how long it takes to get over the wobbliness? I have to keep her in a crate. I have a large dog crate, and got it out of my attic, but near killed my back trying to put it together. I was here crying and just a wreck. I have her in her carrier, and keep letting her out while I am in the room with her. She is still falling over if she tries to move too fast.

Thanks!!!

Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

If she isn't eating, that may be why she is so weak. Can you syringe feed her?
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

My bottle of cypro has a warning sticker that says "May cause blurred vision".
I give 1/4 pill a day, as needed. How much are you giving her?
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Sending both you and Ketchie all my prayers that you two have some more quality time together.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

I had my civvie Trouble on the cypro and he reacted horribly!! I gave it to him at nite and he kept me up until 4:00AM with his fussing and shaking. I was getting ready to take him to the emergency when he finally fell asleep. He had just had his dental surgery about 2 months prior ( his teeth were not good!!) and the vet had given me the usual antibiotic which I gave him faithfully but he kept losing weight and actually had lost 2 pounds in 2 months so he was down to six pounds. The cypro did not work for Trouble so I took him off it. The vet finally gave me a course of nova cam(sp?) and I fed trouble the a/d for a month and it has worked for him but it was an infection in the mouth that caused all the problems so please when you can get Ketchie's dental done and encourage him to eat (anything)!!!!! FYI - Trouble was diagnosed with CKD at the time of his dental also - but he is on a low phosphorus food and is doing great (and gaining weight!!)

Best of luck!! And big prayers!!
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

I will not give Ketchie any more Cyproheptadine. She was so weak and wobbly from it, that she fell off of my bathroom sink onto the floor and onto her side. She could not even catch herself, her legs are so weak. I had given her a half of a pill the day before, then yesterday, 1/2 in the morning and then 1/2 in the evening right before she had fallen.

I cannot syringe feed her. Tried that. She has a bad abscessed tooth and is in pain, so it is hard to get anything into her mouth. I gave her some Buprenex late last night. She has been picking at her food once in a while, but nothing that will help put any weight back on to her. She is very bony now.

Today I will give her some fluids, and the Clindamycin (in a capsule), as I did not have the nerve to give her the Clindacure, as it tastes like 100% grain alchohol. I think that would really do her in.

Just called my vet's, and she will be there today, tomorrow and Saturday. I have pretty much decided at this point to put her down. It is not fair to keep her going like this. She is so old and has so many other things wrong with her.

To Alix, how old is your kitty, Trouble? Ketchie was born in my bathroom on August 1, 1995, and so now she is 17 years, 4 months, and 5 days old. She is a tortie.

Thanks to all of you who will keep us in your thoughts and prayers.
12-4-12Ketchiemovies003.jpg
Ketchie on December 2, 2012

Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

(((((((JEAN)))))))

My thoughts and prayers go with you. You're the bestest momcat . Ketchie knows that.You both have had some time together havent you?

holding you both close in my heart,
jeanne
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Jean

I am so sorry to hear about poor Ketchie. My prayers are with you and all the kitties. She sure is a beautiful girl. I do know that the Cypro is an antihistamine, I think thats what the vet told me? Could whats making her weak and tired. Might want to give her a day or two. Do you have any Mirtazapine left?

Terri
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Thanks, Jeanne!

To Terri,

Yes, I do have the Mirtazapine, which I think I will try in a little while.

I just spoke with my regular vet, and she seemed upset that I would want to put Ketchie down without giving her the Clindacure that tastes so awful, and trying to clear up this abscessed infection in her mouth. She said to put it in the fridge and it makes it not taste so awful.

Anyone here use the Clindacure? Any hints on giving it to the cat? Now I feel really awful, as I told her I might have this other vet come to the house to put down Ketchie. She feels I am 'jumping the gun' and that I should wait a bit longer. Oh, dear, I think I am going to have a stroke over all of this. My heart is pounding, and I just feel like I am in the Twilight Zone. There are never any easy answers. UGH.....

Well, I will go and try to give her the Clindacure in a short while, and then later give her the Mirtazapine again. Maybe try the fluids too.

I suppose because Ketchie is so old, at least to me, that I feel I am torturing her by giving her such awful medicines, and causing her to be so weak.

Thanks for any and all thoughts and ideas.
Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Jean

I would call her back and ask her if Clavamox could be given instead. I know I gave it to Arthur after he had 9+ teeth pulled last year at this time and well as the buprenex. It does not taste as bad to them, I tasted it myself. She should be willing to do whatever to help Ketchie at this point. Maybe the Clindacure is upsetting her stomach and if it tastes bad, well then of course she would not want to take it. I am so sorry all this is happening. Will be watching for updates.

Terri
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Hi Terri,

Well, I just gave Ketchie a dose of the Mirtazapine a short while ago. She ate a tiny bit of food. Then I just got done giving fluids to her (100 mls). First time by myself here at home. All went well, until I changed the dumb needle after I was done with her. I put the new one on and the lid came off and don't ask me how, but I stabbed my right index finger. Not too bad, I quickly rinsed off the needle with alcohol and my finger, then I put Polysporin on my finger and a bandaid. I feel so clumsy today.

Now I am going to have to try the Clindacure with her. I have not tried it yet. I was giving her a capsule with powder from Clindamycin measured out. Stuff I had here for Woodee when he had an abscess under his chin a short while back. She seemed to tolerate that okay, but I think the vet wants me to use the stronger liquid stuff. If it does not work, or she vomits or anything, then maybe tomorrow I will call about the Clavamox. I remember, though, that I always had trouble with that with Ketchie. That was the reason we went for the Baytril.

Would Ketchie be knocked out long if I took her to have that tooth removed? Doesn't she seem too old to have something done like that? I would take her and pick her up the same day.

Thanks!
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Jean

They think Arthur is about 15, he was a stray. He had 9 teeth removed this time last year in emergency surgery. He does not have any other health problems though. Jean, you are not giving Ketchie Clindamycin and Clindacure both are you? They are the same thing and she could get to much. Clindacure is a oral dose of the Clindamycin pill.
I would ask the vet about having the tooth removed. I mean maybe thats why she won`t eat. Arthur Stopped eating altogether, would not eat anything so I took him to the ER and they said all his teeth were rotten, I felt so bad, it was right after I lost my other two kitties within five days of each other.
I would ask the vet if she thinks Ketchie would make it through anesthesia. Which of her teeth is it? Some of the teeth are harder on them to have removed. Something else I did with Arthur is when he had the teeth removed I got some baby food to get him to eat, Beechnut makes a Chicken and Chicken Gravy. She might like some of that.
Please hang in there, its hard and upsetting I know.

Terri
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

I'm so sorry you and Ketchie are going through this.

I think I would have a heart to heart talk with my regular vet. I would ask if treating the abscess (surgery) would give Ketchie back her quality of life and whether the vet thinks Ketchie would tolerate the surgery. Then you would have some idea as to treatment. Surgery may be possible and may really make a difference in how she feels.
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Jean and Charcoal said:
...Would Ketchie be knocked out long if I took her to have that tooth removed? Doesn't she seem too old to have something done like that? I would take her and pick her up the same day. ...
Click to expand...

There are special anesthetics which may be used systemically in a cat with some compromised function. Additionally, they can use some nerve blocks to the dental area to reduce pain and perhaps lessen the total anesthesia needed. This is something to discuss with your vet.

I've had great success with Pill Pockets in getting tablet/powder type meds into my cats. I make the tablet bits small - ex quartering Clavamox - and wrap each bit in about half of a Pill Pocket. The cats I've done this with find the smell/taste fairly appealing. With a powder, I'd probably take half the pocket, flatten, and mix into the powder, then make small balls wrapped in unadulterated pill pocket to cover the medicine smell.
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Hi Terri,

I am giving Ketchie just the Clindamycin, but did not give her any today, and will try the Clindacure instead.

Just spoke with the vet again, and decided to let her take the tooth out tomorrow. She said it should be fairly fast, since it is the only tooth in her mouth besides one fang. This has probably been her whole eating problem and I was planning to put her down tomorrow anyway, at 1 pm, and odd thing is, the vet said to me, can I bring her in at one pm tomorrow for the tooth out? I said, yes, and if she should not make it through the anesthesia, well, then I will know it was meant to be her time to leave me. But, if the tooth comes out, and she heals okay, maybe she will have a few more days, weeks, or months left before the final farewell.

You sure went through the ringer losing your two cats so close, and then with your boy with his bad teeth, and yet, he made it through okay too, which was good. Thanks for the advice and your story about Arthur. Glad he did so well.

So, I will take her tomorrow, and I am going to wait there for her to be done, and wake up, etc. I will take my crocheting with me. :)

Thanks everyone for all your advice and wisdom!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

We will have all our fingers, toes, paws and tails crossed for Ketchie tomorrow...and as you know that is a lot of things crossed ;-)

I'll be watching the clock and waiting to hear that she came through with flying colors...Please update us as soon as you can tomorrow.

Come on Ketchie hang in there pretty girl.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Jean

That sounds like a very good idea to go ahead and have the tooth out. I would buy some baby food like I said just to get her started eating maybe pick up a couple jars just in case, its always good to have on hand for kitties that don`t want to eat. Best wishes for her surgery tomorrow. I will be home so please post when you can.

Terri
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Hi Jean,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner - work got in the way!! My Trouble turned 14 in February (right about the time when he started to go bad big time) and Trouble had a bunch of teeth taken out (pretty much all uppers and bottoms on one side) my regular vet was fantastic but when I took Trouble back after stopping the cypro he was really worried about Trouble but he still went on holidays to Italy (what's up with that??? Lol) and I had to put up with his partners - one of whom was informing me that Trouble was going to crash and die and in the next breath commented on how good his coat looked. That vet also put Trouble on a steroid and that also helped - I was told he may have to stay on it forever but he didn't and he is doing well (He is a grey Tuxedo)


I hope Ketchie does well tomorrow and that he rebounds the way Trouble did - Trouble is still not fat by any means but he has meat on his bones and he enjoys eating again !! I have my fingers and toes crossed and my 3 kitties have their paws crossed. Sending healing vibes and major hugs!!!!!
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Jean, I have not Googled those drugs (pardon my ignorance!) to see if any are antibiotics, but presume one is - because of the abscessed tooth?

I can relate to tooth abscesses because I just went through a "weekend from hell" with an abscessed molar, and although I had antibiotics they took 3 days to kick in and I've never been in so much pain in my life - ever! (OK now, but will get it pulled next week because it has already had a crown and a root canal and re-doing the latter is too much of a gamble for my liking)

Sorry to digress, but I am glad you are getting Ketchie's tooth pulled, because (a) that might just make all the difference to her and (b) as you said, if by any chance she didn't pull through the anesthetic, you would be able to accept it not so badly.

You have had such an awfully sad and worrying time lately. I am so VERY sorry for you - and poor little Ketchie :sad:
 
Re: Ketchie- Cyproheptadine- Need advice please!

Thank you all so very much for all the paws and toes crossed and thoughts and prayers! I sure hope Ketchie comes through okay, but I am prepared for the worst, but praying for the best!

Dear Allie, you poor sister of mine! I know what you mean with a tooth like you have and went through, and that happened to me many years ago, and I had a fever, and a terrible staph infection in it. Finally got that sucker pulled out after a root canal, etc. I have two other teeth now, where parts of the fillings fill out, and I am just going to say to pull them out. I just hope they hold on, and don't start hurting before I get to the dentist myself! I hope you will do okay, and I will be praying for you! We have a birthday coming up again in January! EEEK!!! They come and go so fast! But, at least we are here for them still.

I will post as soon as possible. I have to wait till I get home, as I don't have any of the new fangled apps phones, or anything. So, I am using my old fashioned desktop computer. :)

Take care everyone! I hope I will be able to get some baby food, but at least I do have some pate foods here, plus some a/d cans.

Hugs to you all along with all your furbabies!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
You asked: "Any advice on how long it takes to get over the wobbliness? I have to keep her in a crate. I have a large dog crate, and got it out of my attic, but near killed my back trying to put it together. I was here crying and just a wreck. I have her in her carrier, and keep letting her out while I am in the room with her. She is still falling over if she tries to move too fast."
It can take hour or even a day for an older kitty. It depends upon the kitty and the anaesthesia used. If they uses ketamine for induction that takes awhile to clear the cat's system.
 
She'll be calmer if you just sit with her. If she needs to walk, rig a sling under her belly so you can support her. That way, you can protect her from falling.

The pus and bleeding was probably from a large abcess; now that it is empty, it should begin to heal and she should start feeling better.

As far as the dil goes - you had a choice to treat or euthanize and it was YOUR choice, not hers. Doing nothing at all is what would have been inhumane.
 
:RAHCAT Ketchie made it through her dental okay :RAHCAT

Doing a Happy Dance here, now that all that pus and infection is out she should start feeling a ton better!!!

Hugs to you both.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Let the anesthesia wear off. Ketchie will be less wobbley as time goes on. Hopefully Ketchie will start eating more tomorrow.

Sandy
 
Wow - I am exhausted from reading this condo! Sending healing vines to Ketchie. Hopefully she gets some good rest tonight and has a good appy in the morning. Sounds like she had quite a mess with that awful toof! Don't forget to take care of yourself, too Jean :YMHUG:
 
the wobbiliness is most likely from anesthesia. it took my girls overnight to get over it and get back to normacly.

my girls never had abcesses so can't offer any insight into it. but it reminds me of when I had my wisdoms removed and they bled afterwards. the doctor said to leave it alone and it would slow down and stop and it did. i just had to not touch it.

I would suggest that if it is still bleeding tomorrow, cal the vet and have him check it out to make sure it;s not anything to be concerned about.

and as for a dental being cruel....it is actually more cruel not to treat a dental condition and if you have a cat that can medically handle anesthesia and the dental process then you are doing what is best for the animal. do not listen to unneeded negativity! it is a waste of time and not anything you need to deal with!
 
SO glad Ketchie got through that dental - and as others have said, it's the anesthesia that's made her wobbly. Myrtle had a dental, and two separate anal gland abscesses that had to be drained under anesthesia and on those 3 occasions she was wobbly till the next day.
I do think once she has healed you will be able to truly judge how Ketchie is, healthwise. That awful, painful tooth had to be taken out - probably causing her lack of appetite and general misery. Poor little soul! :sad:
Feel confident in yourself that you have done the right thing not to PTS until you have done the most obvious thing you could do to help her get better.
Hoping and praying you will soon have the joy of seeing Ketchie prove to you that you were right to do this, and your DIL proved wrong!
I am personally an advocate of putting an animal to sleep sooner rather than later IF nothing can be done that won't cause greater suffering than the actual complaint, but in your case, it may just have been this simple (admittedly risky) treatment that was all she needed to get better.

I know you would never let a cat suffer just because you couldn't bear to be without him/her - you have taken this hard decision many many times when it was necessary.
You are very brave, so try not to feel sad and conflicted at what your DIL said. Just think that she meant well, and that might help.
 
Thanks to you all for your encouragement and prayers!

Update on Ketchie at 11 am, Saturday, 2 hours shy of when she had the surgery yesterday.

Bleeding seems to have totally stopped. She has eaten more since last evening (souped down FF), than she has in the last four weeks!

She has used the litter box when I let her out of the carrier. I am still trying to keep her in it, well, rather, she wants to sleep in it when she is done drinking water and using the litterbox.

She is on Clindacure, which she hates, and knocked the syringe in my hand away from her, and I got about half of it into her. I am not attempting more, till 12 hours from now, since I really can't say how much went into her mouth. She is getting more feisty today!

I am giving her some Buprenex in a few minutes.

Take care everyone!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Hi Allie,

You know me by now, I believe as you do, about when to let go, or when to hang on.

Look what happened to me in 2009. I am not afraid to let the cats be pts, when I know I did all I could for them. I wanted to give this last chance to Ketchie, even though it was highly risky considering her health problems, and age, but even if I ended up having to put her down a week or more from now, at least I have seen her enjoy eating again, and hopefully, as she gets stronger, she will be with me for a tad bit longer. She is like an 86 year old lady almost! I can't imagine being that old, and doing as well as she is. :)

Take care! How is your tooth doing?

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Jean and Charcoal said:
Hi Allie,

You know me by now, I believe as you do, about when to let go, or when to hang on.

Look what happened to me in 2009. I am not afraid to let the cats be pts, when I know I did all I could for them. I wanted to give this last chance to Ketchie, even though it was highly risky considering her health problems, and age, but even if I ended up having to put her down a week or more from now, at least I have seen her enjoy eating again, and hopefully, as she gets stronger, she will be with me for a tad bit longer. She is like an 86 year old lady almost! I can't imagine being that old, and doing as well as she is. :)

Take care! How is your tooth doing?

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
Click to expand...


Glad to read that Ketchie is showing signs of improvement already! :thumbup :RAHCAT
Getting over the anesthesia and the infected tooth might take a little time but she is headed in the right direction!

My own tooth has settled down really well thanks to the antibiotics I'm still taking, and is not painful, but I have no choice than to have the root canal re-done by going in through the gum (I think) or have it pulled. I've Googled to see what experiences others have had from the root-canal re-do of a crowned molar and opted for the extraction. The first procedure is a 4 figure sum, the extraction will be about $NZ450, which is a lot dearer than an ordinary extraction by an ordinary dentist. Gooing to an oral surgeon on Thursday. He said he'll cut the tooth in half to extract it. Yikes! I might be unable to feel it but I'm going to hear it - unless they can give me industrial strength ear-muffs!
 
Thanks, Jeanne!

To Allie,

Don't worry about getting your tooth pulled and hearing it. I thought the same thing when I had four big molars pulled (at different times) that had been root canals. I had to go to a dental surgeon also.

My biggest suggestion is to wear sunglasses. Sounds goofy, but my surgeon got a charge out of me wearing them, and said "Hey, we have a movie star here!" HAHAHA!!!

But, he numbed the area well, which I did not even feel him doing, and then I only felt some pressure, did not hear anything (and he took mine out in two pieces) and BINGO! He asked me if I had any pain, and of course, dentists and dental surgeons always ask if you feel anything when you have all the paraphernalia in your mouth, and I was going to try to answer, but he said, "You are all done"..... I was amazed how I had gotten myself so worked up over the first time I had the one pulled without being knocked out, but due to my age and high blood pressure, he could no longer do that. So, I made it through, and I think, hope and pray that you will have the same experience with not hearing anything. Some dental surgeons do let you put on headsets, though, and listen to music. Best wishes, and prayers for this Thursday, which will really be our Wednesday. Let us know how you do!

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
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