Kelly and Ak

Hello all-
I’ve never written here yet, so sorry if I get the lingo wrong or if I’m typing in the wrong section. I’m Trying to catch on as best I can. My cat AK was just diagnosed almost two weeks ago. We’re on Novolin
2 units a day

So I applied for the savings card out of Canada considering I’m in Florida. I Filled everything out properly and they sent a copy of the card saying you can use it right away. I know to ask for the pens, right? Tell the vet to put use as directed instead of the units, right? I read on here it takes 7-10 days though, and then the card I got said I can use right away? So I’m a bit confused. Not to worried right now at least because I just got this insulin for him and I can continue with it, but I’m getting from here that lantus would be better.

I’m not with all the lingo yet but, since Thursday we shot at (am & pm)
386/300
to Friday 280/295
Saturday 236/204
Sunday 182/174
Monday we’re at 112/ 115 . fed wet pate syringe feeding still and he’s eating dry hills prescription on his own.
I’m not conpeltely worried considering it’s right at normal but with the dosage now at a good point I don’t know what to do. He’s been high last week one time 389 to 300 to 200’s but now we’re Going down

so yeah just thinking if I should go ahead to cvs now and see if this card is actually active and then at my next check up see about either getting him off novolun or stay on it. There’s just so many questions. The vet told me not to test at all and I saw him Thursday, well I just called him and told him I’ve been testing and was concerned with the 115- he basically said don’t give him insulin for a week. Do a curve next Monday and then maybe he’s not even diabetic if he’s low and then we will know he is if he’s high. Then I read him numbers I’ve gotten from the last week and he’s like ok give him insulin
Like- hello- anyway that’s where I’m at. I sure could use some help. He also told me when he gets instantly sleepy after insulin to always give him a little honey? But if he’s higher numbers or lower numbers or both. For instance he’s low and sleepy right now.
He’s on fluids. Denamarin-ursodoil- mirtazapine-
Thank you for listening (fresh meat here)
He told me to give insulin at 115- is that accurate.
he’s only eating what the other cats have here bc he seriously hasn’t eaten in two weeks. I’ve been syringing for about a week and a half. But a few days ago he decided to eat. Royal canin weight care dry food. He’s so much better now but I just want to understand what’s going on. A good fella here told me that’s a big No no with the dry food and I do realize that but was happy he was eating. He was sick back in 2018- Feb 2019 liver failure and jaundice. He did the same thing with not eating and me having to feed him. I’m kinda overwhelmed and finally learned how to post I think! Any help would be great thank you.

 

I'm not sure what savings card you're talking about. The Lantus Savings Card is for US customers only....and as soon as you apply you can print out the card and try to use it at your local pharmacy. The "deal" is a month's supply for $99....but it doesn't work at a lot of pharmacies because a month's worth of Lantus for a cat is usually a lot less than even 1 pen. Also, a lot of pharmacies want a special registration number that veterinarians can't get. I have heard some people in the Facebook group having some success at CVS pharmacies if you have one nearby.

A lot of us are buying it from Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada but they have nothing to do with the Lantus Savings Card. When I originally found Marks, Lantus didn't even offer a savings card so getting a 5 pack of Lantus for 1/2 as much as the price here was a lifesaver for China so I started spreading the good news for others like me who couldn't afford over $500 for a 5 pack of pens.

Another nice thing about Marks...once they have a copy of the script, you never have to get another one. In the US, you have to get a new script every year. For a lot of us that gave up on our vet's way of treating diabetes, being able to get refills without a vet in the picture was wonderful. This is the Information on Buying insulin from Marks

 

WELCOME TO FDMB! BOY AM I GLAD you found us! whoa theres no diplomatic way to say this...YOUR VET IS WRONG.
Good on you for getting in there and testing on your own. wow
You've found the right place! We will get all your questions answered and then some. You have landed in a safe place to get allhe information you need about feline diabetes. You may want to start here:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

This is a great group of people all tied together by this disease. The collection of practical knowledge here is second to none. WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY
jeanne

ETA: My goodness AK is stunning! Hes a lot of cat! Beautiful cat!

 

For the most part dry food is a no no for a diabetic. BUT he needs to eat. So let him. Have you ever tried Fancy Feast pates? They are all under 10% carbs. Ideal for diabetic cats. You ca transition AK off the dry slowly with mixing it into the can food then little by little add less and less dry. A LOT of people do it that way.

For a vet to tell you "if your cat gets instantly sleepy after insulin to give honey" like its no big deal is an INSULT. A hypoglycemic episode is not only deadly its frightening. I'm aghast at your vet. This is very serious. I would be looking for a new vet.

I find this rather disturbing. WTH? sorry I shouldnt be so blunt but...hold on for more replies and please know. You and AK deserve better and here is where you will get...BETTER.
jeanne

 

I should rephrase..for a hypo incident honey IS used ...Its just the manner of the way its presented. Please excuse my outrage. sigh

 

These numbers are too low to shoot. Not only are they too low on their own, but with high carb dry food thrown in, you should expect to see much higher numbers.

I'm tagging @Marje and Gracie to look at your labs.

Not all cat show symptoms of a hypo – and then by the time they do, it could be too late. Thank you for taking the initiative and testing.

Read these and print them out to have handy.

• How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
• jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX

We are data driven and use spreadsheets here. If you could take a bit of time and enter what numbers you have, we can help you find the best dose for AK.

• FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions
• Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

Welcome to the best place you never thought you would be.

 

Thank you for all the replies.
Ak went up to 170ish after I sent this out.
He is on FF pate and has been since he got sick, but he won’t eat it eat it.. I have to syringe it. He tolerates it and most likely appreciates it too. He’s not drinking on his own either. This is something he does when he’s recovering. I have old lab work when he got jaundice and fatty liver and infection diagnosis a while back. I’m certain he will eat and drink again on his own ( back to wet food on his own) but for now if he’s taking literally 4 pieces of dry food every couple hours I can’t complain I’m just glad he’s eating. I can figure out the spreadsheet when I have a minute. Does marks help out for Florida residents I’ll definitely look.
Yeah it sucks because I didn’t give him insulin until like 6pm and he was supposed to have it in between noon and 1pm. So 12 hours from now it’ll be 6am and then 6 pm and I’ll be working. then he told me don’t test, ok test, honey blah blah
So we’re a little screwed but we will figure it out. He seems okay. He told me in general to give honey not even if he was hypo just in general when he takes it. Ok, not doing that. He looks sleepy every time he takes it and chills on the bed. No need to perk him up right?
Ahhh well I’m looking for some diabetic dry food at least for now. My gf has two cats and he’s under our care here. He was at my sisters house bc my family so obsessed but since he got sick he got sent back to me. “I was allowed to have him back”
I had been begging my sister for him and now this is how we get him.
Ah well. Yeah if someone can check out the labs and I’ll try to make a spreadsheet. I’ll look at the links. Yeah new vet for sure. He has a diabetic cat so it sounded so promising on the phone

 

Yes. You just need a prescription from your vet. Then you can fax the prescription to them.

What is your preferred shot time?

Since you gave insulin at 6 p.m., you cannot give insulin again until 5 a.m. at the very earliest. Vetsulin gives you a bit of leeway with the shot but since his numbers were so low, I'd be leery of shooting early. Shooting any early can have the effect of double dosing and then you are in big trouble.

The other alternative is to skip the next shot (you're at work anyway) and then shoot at your preferred time of noon and midnight.

 

Yeah noon and midnight it is for me.
I never give it early, is just like to get back on the normal schedule considering I work tomorrow so I’ll start his insulin tomorrow at noon. Also I’ve heard a lot of people give different numbers but what would your preferred number be to not shoot? Around where we were today? And I’ve also heard skipping a dose is no good. I just want to gather as much as I can. When we’re in the 200’s are we ok? Or is that not good. When we’re in the 100s is that ok? It’s just all so confusing I’m not the medical type at all.

 

If you'd like help with it, I'd be happy to set it up for you. Takes me about 60 seconds once I have some information. Just click on my name and choose "start a conversation" to send me a private message.

Mark's sells to the entire 50 states in the US. Temperature is important when shipping insulin so it's a good idea to pay the little extra for a cooler. They always pack it in a special envelope with medical grade ice packs, but with all the hijinks going on with the post office right now, I think it's worth a few extra bucks to add the cooler.

Novolin is a harsh, hard hitting insulin. You don't want to give it if he's below 250 for now because you don't have enough experience or data to safely give it any lower. (if you get the Lantus, it's a whole different ballgame)

Here's some information on using Novolin though until you can get the Lantus

 

My girl was on Novolin N and she had a very difficult time regulating. She went into DKA shock and nearly died. I also wasn’t fully home testing at first and it’s terrifying to think of all the times Alice got really sleepy after she ate and had her shot. Something so much worse could have happened.

After Alice had DKA, to regulate her better I started having to give the Novolin N every 8 hours.

After a short time of doing that three times a day, we switched to Lantus. She has been much better off since we switched, even though she has other health issues.

Given our experience, I would always recommend against Novolin N/NPH if there are other options available. At the time I thought it was all I could afford.


I agree that your cat must eat, most importantly. So if for now he must eat some dry food, that’s better than nothing.

Besides testing before you give a shot, are you getting a test maybe a couple hours after the shot has been given?

I know feline diabetes is very overwhelming at first! There is a steep learning curve, but later on it does get easier. I was anxious to fix everything fast, because we had been struggling with diet change then crappy insulin then DKA. Someone once told me FD is a marathon, not a sprint. Test and gather data and that will help guide you in future treatment decisions.

Glad you found this place. It has saved my cat’s life probably a gazillion times over by now.

 

Ugh, it sounds like your vet doesn't have a clue about diabetes. There's absolutely no need to give a cat honey unless it's exhibiting hypo symptoms - see the helpful handouts linked above. You know better than anyone what's normal for AK, so you need to look out for abnormal behaviour, especially anything that indicates distress.

Maddie is on ProZinc (a slow-acting insulin, similar in Lantus), and she often naps after breakfast. However cats sleep a lot anyway, so I figure that if it's a normal-type sleep, i.e. she's curled up in a favourite spot, she's probably fine. If she were to lie on her side stretched out - something she only does when it's really hot and she's desperately trying to stay cool - or if she failed to respond if I stroked her, then I would worry. I think if AK is just chilling out and responds normally when you pet him, he's probably not hypo, especially if the test numbers look OK.

I confess that for the first few days after Maddie started on insulin, I was like a mother with a new baby, checking on her day and night, but we soon got into the swing of things!