Kathy's Cleo - Newly Diagnosed - Oceanside, CA

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Kathy-and-Cleo

Kathy-and-Cleo

Member Since 2012
Hello all,

My name is Kathy and I started poking around on this website last night after finding out my 14 year old cat, Cleo, was most likely diabetic from our vet. I decided to come out of lurker mode and say hello since we have made the decision to pursue treatment and now have lots of questions, and I'm sure only more questions as time goes on.

Just as a bit of background, as I mentioned, Cleo is 14 years old. She has always been a bit of a chubby cat, but in the last year or two she put on another 4 lbs. despite being on food labeled for weight control-hairball control for indoor cats, with the exception of the times we could not find her usual food and resorted to "regular" cat food. She now weighs 13 lbs. At ideal weight she would probably be a small-ish cat of 7-8 lbs. Recently (approximately 6 weeks ago) we noticed her water consumption and her output had gone way up. After noticing urine scald this week we decided it was time to take her into the vet to see what was going on, since she was not doing well without intervention.

Cleo has been a dry food only cat her whole life. Back when she was a kitten I had tried wet food for her and she literally just ignored it until it dried out! Based on that, I never bothered to try to feed her wet food.

After reading up a lot last night and more this evening, we have switched her to wet food. Happily, for her first wet food meal tonight, after a few cautious sniffs she caught on pretty quickly and ate the half-can of Purina DM we gave her. I have already bought some Fancy Feast Classics (the poultry ones) and plan to visit our specialty pet store tomorrow to try out some Merrick's. I plan to have her on low-carb, high-protein wet food only from now on. That's the easiest part of the treatment to deal with.

At our vet appointment yesterday, the vet did a blood glucose test at the appointment and based on the result (410ish) and the obesity, excessive water consumption and urination, he made a preliminary diagnosis of diabetes. He also drew blood and urine and had labwork done. At our consultation today we went over the bloodwork which he said confirmed diabetes - blood glucose of 411 and glucose present in the urine. The good news was there were no ketones in the urine.

In discussion with the vet he said that because Cleo is recently diagnosed and he thinks we caught the diabetes relatively early, she stands a good chance of going into remission if treated properly. He's absolutely in favor of an immediate switch to low-carb, high-protein wet food. He was ok with the Purina DM but did not push it, by any means. He also recommended the regularly available EVO 95 or Merrick Before Grain.

I did ask about starting with just a diet switch first, and he strongly recommended doing both a diet switch and starting insulin. Although I'm a little dubious of doing both changes at once, I am going to follow his recommendation and we are taking Cleo in tomorrow morning for her first insulin shot. We are going to be doing Lantus insulin. They will be showing us how to do the insulin shots and test blood at home. He was in favor of home testing, so that's a positive. Cleo will spend tomorrow at the vet for a "mini" glucose curve (they are not open long enough on Saturdays for a full one) but it should be ok in combination with doing our own testing at home. I'm hoping Cleo doesn't get too stressed out by being at the vet that it throws all the readings off and causes more harm.

I guess mostly I just wanted to establish where I was coming from with questions etc.

I feel like I've gathered a lot of information already from this board and other good websites. Incidentally, my vet even recommended this website, which is a good sign, although ironic since I had already found the website and forum last night :lol:

Anyhow, my first question revolves around what glucose meter to get. I know there's the starter kit available above, and lots of recommendations for some of the human glucose meters. However, when I asked the vet about it he said that he strongly suggested getting one of the glucose meters calibrated (coded?) for cats since they store glucose differently in the blood. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? Is it a legitimate concern? He was recommending the AlphaTrak (2 I guess, not sure, I will ask tomorrow), which is what they use in the vet's office. However, it's pretty pricy - even on Ebay it looked like it would be about $100 for the meter, 25 test strips and 30 lancets. The test strips themselves would be about $1/strip in the future (almost 3x the price of the ReliOn ones). I would really like to know if it's going to be worth it to get the coded-for-cat meter and if anyone else knows about the made-for-human meters not being as accurate because the glucose is stored differently.

Thanks in advance for any insight!
 
Kathy, I am completely impressed with you and your vet! You have really done your homework.

Some vets want to start kitties on insulin in their offices. I think that's reasonable, but no, you won't be able to rely on any numbers gained there. And we strongly suggest starting at .5 - 1 unit twice daily anyway. You can always increase as your hometesting numbers suggest. Hopefully your vet will start at a safe, low dose.

Very few people here use the AlphaTrak. It is too expensive for the meter and strips, and if you run out of the strips on a Saturday evening, you have no place to get any. We use human meters. We are looking for general ranges and trends, rather than numbers. Whether the kitty is 230 or 260, you will be giving the same dose.

Continue to read and ask questions. We'd be here to help with your sweet Cleo.
 
Kathy-and-Cleo said:
Anyhow, my first question revolves around what glucose meter to get. I know there's the starter kit available above, and lots of recommendations for some of the human glucose meters. However, when I asked the vet about it he said that he strongly suggested getting one of the glucose meters calibrated (coded?) for cats since they store glucose differently in the blood. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? Is it a legitimate concern? He was recommending the AlphaTrak (2 I guess, not sure, I will ask tomorrow), which is what they use in the vet's office. However, it's pretty pricy - even on Ebay it looked like it would be about $100 for the meter, 25 test strips and 30 lancets. The test strips themselves would be about $1/strip in the future (almost 3x the price of the ReliOn ones). I would really like to know if it's going to be worth it to get the coded-for-cat meter and if anyone else knows about the made-for-human meters not being as accurate because the glucose is stored differently.

Thanks in advance for any insight!
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No, you don't need the pet meter at all. It's no more accurate than a Human meter. Plus it's expensive. A Human meter works well and all you need. It can't tell Human blood from animal blood.

The FreeStylebrand of Human meters and any meter with "True" in the name (usually a generic store brand) do not give accurate readings so don't buy any of these. Wal Mart's Relion brand of meters is what many people here use.

Kathy-and-Cleo said:
I did ask about starting with just a diet switch first, and he strongly recommended doing both a diet switch and starting insulin. Although I'm a little dubious of doing both changes at once, I am going to follow his recommendation and we are taking Cleo in tomorrow morning for her first insulin shot.
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If you want, you could try diet for week first and then start insulin. Doing a diet switch while on insulin can be tricky especially if you are not testing blood glucose levels.


We are going to be doing Lantus insulin. They will be showing us how to do the insulin shots and test blood at home. He was in favor of home testing, so that's a positive. Cleo will spend tomorrow at the vet for a "mini" glucose curve (they are not open long enough on Saturdays for a full one) but it should be ok in combination with doing our own testing at home. I'm hoping Cleo doesn't get too stressed out by being at the vet that it throws all the readings off and causes more harm.
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You are starting insulin tomorrow (Sunday) at the vet's office and the vet will also do a curve? The curve isn't needed. All it will show is that the blood glucose levels are high, in part because your cat will most likely be so stressed out that blood glucose levels are further elevated. One Lantus shot isn't going to have any effect on blood glucose levels. It takes Lantus a few days to "build up a shed", as Lantus users here call it, before it has any effect on blood glucose levels.

Once you are testing blood glucose levels at home, you can do your own curves. You test aprroxinately every 2 hours. Record the numbers and email it to your vet. I wouldn't do a curve on Lantus until a week or so after starting it.
 
Hi Kathy! I have both the Alpha Trak 2 and the Relion Micro. The Alpha Trak tends to read a little higher (marginally) but I have found no advantage to using it over the Relion Micro. Most people on this board use human meters, and are used to evaluating spreadsheets and giving recommendations based on those readings - so from that standpoint, the Relion may be more beneficial to you in the long run. My vet talked me into the Alpha Trak early on -- saying human meters could not read cat blood (I think she read this on the back of the box), so I bought it just to make her happy. Otherwise, she has been a great vet. But when I ran out of test strips and couldn't find any at 7am, I switched to the Relion Micro meter as I could get those strips at Walmart, 24/7 -- at 1/3 of the price, I might add. Other vets, like Dr. Lisa Pierson who is a feline diabetes guru and posts to this site from time to time, recommend human meters -- so it's not just the crazy "internet" people who are recommending this. Another poster, Russ, commented recently he never tells his vet that he got advice from an internet message board -- as the vet's eyes tend to glaze over and they they discount everything he is saying as nuts. LOL!!! But the people on this board (the senior people that is...not newbies like me) are experts at this and have helped save the lives of thousands of cats over the years. Some enlightened vets, like Dr. Lisa, actually recommend the FDMB as a good resource for newbies. That said, I now use my Relion Micro exclusively and just don't tell my vet so she does not have to stress about it (LOL!!). I send her the readings and she works with me to make decisions about my cat's Lantus dosage increases. Everyone is happy.

PS: Though I am pretty new myself, I agree with Squeem3 above about getting no value from a mini curve at the vet tomorrow; and also agree that doing the diet change for a few days with at-home blood glucose testing before deciding on the Lantus dose might make a lot of sense (not for more than a few days though...see below). One of the first things I learned on this site was that Diabetes is a disease that kills slowly (if left untreated) but that too high an insulin dose can kill quickly. That's the whole point of the "start low, go slow" recommendations. Cleo's blood glucose readings at the vet are unreliable due to the stress of being at the vet (poked, prodded, in a cage and an unfamiliar environment). Even a normal cat can have significantly increased blood glucose levels in this setting (I believe it is called stress hyperglycemia). So Cleo's 411 reading at the vet could have been 311 at home. Also, as you learned, most cat's BG levels drop significantly just from a diet change alone. So a week from now, Cleo's at-home reading could be (as an example) 250 instead of 411 -- necessitating a lower starting dose of insulin. (Senior posters, please correct me if I am wrong on this).

Here is an excerpt from veterinarian Dr. Lisa Pierson's excellent article on the subject (entire article can be found here: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes )
-----------------------------
"Many cats that are in a diabetic state no longer need any insulin when they are finally fed an appropriate low-carbohydrate diet. Others will always need some insulin but the amount necessary to maintain proper blood glucose levels is nearly always significantly reduced once the patient is on a low carbohydrate diet.

Please re-read the previous two paragraphs carefully. If you change your diabetic cat's diet to one with lower carbohydrates, he will, in all probability, IMMEDIATELY (not days or weeks later) require a reduction in his insulin dosage. He may also immediately go into 'remission' and not need any insulin at all.

If this warning is ignored, you may very well end up with a cat in a hypoglycemic crisis (dangerously low blood sugar) which can result in death, or brain damage.

If you take only one point away from this page, it needs to be the understanding that if you stop pouring carbs into your cat by switching to a low-carb canned food diet (or even a dry food diet with lower carbs than you have been feeding), you MUST be aware of the probable immediate and significant impact on your cat's insulin needs."

Dr. Lisa also says in the same article:

"Unless the patient's clinical signs warrant immediate insulin administration, I try a diet change - with no insulin - for 5-7 days to see what impact the new diet will have on the blood glucose. In most cases, I do not agree with waiting much longer than a week to start insulin. This is because you will have the best chance of getting your cat into remission (cease needing insulin) if both diet and insulin are used very early on. The longer your cat's body is under the effects of glucose toxicity, the more his body will be damaged and the less chance of remission he will have."

---------------------------

These are all things you may want to discuss with you vet. Welcome to the board!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hi guys ... I just want to say welcome! I am very impressed with both yours and your vet's research. This board can honest to goodness be a life saver! I went through three vets before we finally found one who was competent enough in the world of FD to help us out, but 98% of our information came from this site and we now have a "diet controlled" diabetic cat ..

We used the relion micro with mocha because it took such a tiny amount of blood, plus we could turn off the "beep" at the end, which really bothered her .. Also, we feed her walmart brand special kitty because it fit into our budget .. you can get a 5.5oz can (she LOVES turkey and giblets) for .45 a can! I do believe it's right around 4% carbs .. most people on this board like to stick with 5% or less on carbs ..

Anyways, continue reading, continue asking questions and make yourself at home!
 
My vet talked me into the Alpha Trak early on -- saying human meters could not read cat blood (I think she read this on the back of the box)
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"I think she read it on the back of the box...." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Kathy and Cleo, and a big warm welcome to FDMB. It sounds like you have one of the "good vets", which is awesome. It's also great that he knows about "us"!

You've got a great diet plan, and a great insulin planned. If you haven't already paid for the insulin, I'm agreeing with others that you could start with just a change in diet to see how beneficial that is to her BG numbers. Insulin is pretty pricey, and if you don't need it, no sense buying it yet. If you do need it, you'll be able to pick it up immediately at the pharmacy.

Try to find out what dose the vet has in mind. If what you said is right, that she seems way overweight and should only weigh 7 or 8 pounds, her dose would most likely be lower than a chubby 13 pound cat. This is from the AAHA guidelines to treatment of diabetes in cats:
Most cats are well regulated on insulin at 0.5 U/kg q 12 hours, with a range of 0.2 to 0.8 U/kg. The panel recommends a starting dose of 0.25 U/kg q 12 hours, based on an estimate of the cat’s lean body weight. This equates to 1 U q 12 hours in an average cat. Even in a very large cat, the starting dose of insulin should not exceed 2 U per cat q 12 hours.
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Like I said, it sounds like your vet knows what he's doing, so he probably already knows that.

Carl
 
Thanks for all the welcomes and input!

Cleo is home from the vet now. Her levels were down already at the vet's all day - in the mid-200s. When we tried out the human glucose meter I bought today with the vet (a ReliOn Confirm) she tested at 161 - so a lot lower than she had been all day, which makes me wonder why the big difference, though it was also late in the day and she hadn't eaten since the early morning. Anyhow, her levels are still high, but better than the 411 from Friday! She did get her first shot of Lantus this morning and we're about to give her the 2nd dose now that she's had dinner.

My vet is still pretty down on the idea of the human glucose meter - he was also very down on the idea of using human lancets to get the droplet of blood and I don't know why. He also wants her to come back in all day on Monday for another curve, and I'm a little hesitant - from what you all have said there won't be much of a difference yet since Lantus needs a few days to build up. I could tell she was pretty stressed from spending today at the vet so I don't want to do it unnecessarily, plus it's like $200 each time which adds up entirely too quickly.

On the flip side, I'm pretty hesitant to keep injecting her with insulin without the vet's supervision to make sure her glucose levels aren't going too far down. The last thing I want is for her to end up with a hypoglycemic emergency. I do work Mon-Friday, so I can't stay with her Monday to do a curve myself.

Her initial dose of Lantus is 3 units measured on a 3/10 cc needle.

How often do you think it's necessary to check her glucose levels right now while everything is adjusting? I don't want to *not* monitor and end up with an emergency, but I also don't want to be torturing her (or me) by trying to test too often (especially with being new to this). I feel like I need a quick start guide on this :) kind of in information overload with all I have read.
 
Hi Kathy,
I see others have been answering you today. I just popped in this evening.

You have a meter tonight right? You gave Cleo 3U of Lantus this evening?

If so, you will need to test her blood glucose several times during the night to make sure she's safe.

3U is a very hefty dose and with readings in the 100s earlier, it is dangerous to give that much insulin.

Did you test before giving the shot? You must always test before giving a shot. We recommend delaying or skipping shots if the BG is below 200, at least until you get some more experience under your belt.

I am going to pop over on the Lantus Insulin support group and get some help for you.
 
Dang it, I'll take back some of my praise for your vet. 3u? Based on what? Even if he went with .25u per kg of her current "chubby weight", the dose would have been less than 2u. Totally not your fault, I'm just venting. :smile:

She was at 161 right before eating? If you haven't shot yet, please don't until someone from Lantus gets here to help? If you have shot 3u already, please do what Vicky said and get another test around 2 hours after the shot was given?

Carl
 
My vet is still pretty down on the idea of the human glucose meter - he was also very down on the idea of using human lancets to get the droplet of blood and I don't know why. He also wants her to come back in all day on Monday for another curve, and I'm a little hesitant - from what you all have said there won't be much of a difference yet since Lantus needs a few days to build up. I could tell she was pretty stressed from spending today at the vet so I don't want to do it unnecessarily, plus it's like $200 each time which adds up entirely too quickly.
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If you are home testing, there is zero need to bring her in for a $200 day at the vet's clinic. His numbers won't be more accurate just because he's got a fancy expensive meter. They'll likely be higher because Cleo won't really want to be there having strangers poke and prod her all day.

If he doesn't want you to use human lancets to get the sample, did he say how he'd like you to get it? Or does he just not want you testing her at home?

Carl
 
I tested at the vet's office, with the vet at about 6:30 PM PST - at that time her reading was 161. I questioned the vet if we should still give her the insulin tonight, and he said yes, as long as she eats a full meal. He seemed very certain that because of how the human meters are calibrated the 161 was actually lower than her real level. I did ask him what a bottom level reading would be before we should not give the insulin and he said 150 (so she was close).

She did eat a full dinner of wet food and we waited about 20-30 min after that to give her the insulin so the food would have time to hit her digestive system.

For the dose, I realize this may make me sound like a moron, but I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing. The syringes they gave us say they are for U-100 insulin only and they are 3/10 CC. The syringe markers go up to 30 units, but the dosage we give her is only 3. Am I referring to the dosage correctly as 3 units as measured that way? Is this high? I have no standard of comparison, though based on the guidelines posed by Carl, this does seem high if the units we are talking about are the same.
 
Carl, he gave me some lancets from his office, but looking at them they don't seem all that different, they just don't fit in one of the lancet pen things. They are 25g I think - the tube says 25 x 5/8A.

I don't think he's necessarily against home testing, but I kind of get the feeling that he's not really open to a lot of outside input.

I'm very open to looking for a second opinion for Cleo, especially if anyone has a recommendation in my area (Oceanside, CA).
 
For the dose, I realize this may make me sound like a moron, but I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing. The syringes they gave us say they are for U-100 insulin only and they are 3/10 CC. The syringe markers go up to 30 units, but the dosage we give her is only 3. Am I referring to the dosage correctly as 3 units as measured that way? Is this high? I have no standard of comparison, though based on the guidelines posed by Carl, this does seem high if the units we are talking about are the same.
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Okay, I'll try to give you a quick "syringe tutorial".
U-100 - those are the right syringes for Lantus, which is a U100 insulin. The "U" value is sort of like a potency thing. Someone else can probably explain it better than I can, but bottom line, you have the right syringes for your insulin.
3/10cc - that means the syringe will hold a total of 30 units, or three tenths of a cc of insulin. One CC of insulin is the same as one milliliter of insulin. And there are 100 units of insulin in 1CC or 1ml.
If the correct dose was 3u, then you should have pulled insulin into the syringe up the the third line past the "zero" line (assuming your syringes have 1 unit markings and not 1/2 unit markings.) If you did that, then you gave the amount he told you to.

We usually advise people just starting to not shoot a number below 200, but we tend to be more cautious since nobody is sure yet how a newly diagnosed cat will react to insulin.
Yes, 3u is "high" to us, especially when just starting out. Many cats never go that high in dose. Some do. But we advocate "starting low and going slow" for new members and kitties, so we usually advise a max starting dose of 1u at least until data from home testing can be collected for a week or longer.

What Vicky, and I, are concerned about is that nobody really knows how Cloe will react to Lantus, not yet. That's why we advised that you get a couple of tests in tonight. You're on the west coast, so it's 10PM there? How late do you normally stay up on a Saturday night?

Carl
 
Thanks for the quick reply! Yes, that's what I did - I gave her 3 lines past 0 worth (3 units), which is what they told us/showed us to do.

I will get a reading from her in the next half hour or so and post it, and one more at least before I go to bed. I can stay up til midnight or 1 pretty easily and get up periodically if necessary. She just came down and jumped up on my desk and sat with me for a bit, so she seems to be feeling fine right now which makes me feel better. I will get my husband to help me out getting a reading and post it when I get it.
 
The lancets he sent home with you should work great. Lancets come in several different sizes. The 25 is the gauge of the lancet. The higher the number, the smaller the diameter of the poker. 25 would be about the biggest ones you can find. Most human meters come with 30 or 33 gauge points, which are much smaller (well, they are all pretty small, but 33 is REALLY tiny in comparison). I'm glad he gave you 25's, because getting blood at first is a challenge, and those will help you to succeed more easily when poking the ear for a drop of blood.
Have you watched any YouTube vids on how to test BG yet?
Carl
 
Kathy-and-Cleo said:
Thanks for the quick reply! Yes, that's what I did - I gave her 3 lines past 0 worth (3 units), which is what they told us/showed us to do.

I will get a reading from her in the next half hour or so and post it, and one more at least before I go to bed. I can stay up til midnight or 1 pretty easily and get up periodically if necessary. She just came down and jumped up on my desk and sat with me for a bit, so she seems to be feeling fine right now which makes me feel better. I will get my husband to help me out getting a reading and post it when I get it.
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Good on the insulin amount. We're talking the same language!

I'll keep an eye out for your posts. I'm on the east coast, but I don't have to work tomorrow so I'll be up for a couple hours anyway.
She just came down and jumped up on my desk and sat with me for a bit, so she seems to be feeling fine right now which makes me feel better.
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Good! Try to include observations like that when you post. Sometimes we get so caught up with the "numbers" that we don't notice (or forget to ask) what we refer to as the "whole cat report". How they look, how they are acting, etc. If she's looking good, that matters. Also, remember that she doesn't know she's "sick". She just knows something isn't quite right, and that sometimes she feels good and other times not so good. In the days to come, she'll understand that for whatever reason, she's getting a lot more attention and in different ways than she's used to. And she'll figure out that getting poked by sharp things leads to treats and feeling better more often.
Carl
 
Ok, just did a reading and her blood sugar is down to 84. This is about 2 hours past when we gave her the insulin.

She seems to still be feeling fine though - she's alert, tail swishing around. She's not running around or anything, but she never did pre-insulin either. At what point do I need to be concerned? Should I be giving her some extra food to get blood sugar up?
 
Please test her again in about 20 minutes?
What kind of canned food do you have available? Any that isn't low-carb, like a gravy style? Don't feed yet. If her numbers keep dropping, you'll need to feed her, but only in small amounts at a time so her tummy doesn't fill up too quickly.

Carl
 
I have a bunch of different canned foods available because I wasn't sure what she'd eat. Unfortunately, she completely refused to touch the only gravy-style I've tried with her so far (Merrick Cowboy Cookout). I tried to give her that for dinner and she wouldn't even touch it.

All the varieties I have I bought since her diagnosis though so they're all low-carb/high-protein styles, since she was strictly on dry food previously. What I do have are Fancy Feast Classics (3 differently poultry ones), about 3/4 of a 5.5 oz can of Purina DM, two cans of EVO 95 (duck and beef varieties), a can of Weruva chicken (I think it's a gravy style, but unfortunately based on the Merrick experiment earlier I have no idea if she'll eat it), and I have samples of a bunch of different freeze dried whole meat style foods. I hit up the specialty pet store earlier today and they were great with giving me samples.

I'm going to keep a super close eye on her and plan to retest in about 15-30 min (about 45 min to an hour from when we did the 84 reading test). Will post when we do the reading.

Thanks for virtually holding my hand.
 
You are welcome Kathy. Virtual hand-holding is what we do on occasion. :smile: I've asked someone with more Lantus experience than I'll ever have to take a look as well.

Carl
 
Kathy,
Not saying you will need to go this route, but do you have karo syrup or honey in the pantry?
Carl
 
I'm on the east coast too and it's about 2 am now, but if we can't find anyone to sit with you, I'll stay around. I don't want to scare you, but Cleo's BG could -- *could*, but I hope not -- drop to a low level due to the amount of insulin she was given. Do you have any karo syrup, honey, or even ice cream? Would she lick some ice cream? She needs to have more carbs in her to help offset the insulin. If you have cat food with gravy, squish the gravy out and give her just the gravy. That's where most of the carbs are.

MJ

eta - I see I'm basically repeating what Carl said, but I don't want you to become complacent about her BG levels. They can continue to drop, so you need to keep monitoring her. She may not show any symptoms of hypo at all. My Donovan never did. But that doesn't mean those low numbers aren't dangerous to her. Keep on top of it and she should be fine.
 
Yep, we have Karo syrup, honey, maple syrup... all the quick sugar fix things except molasses. She's still very alert and acting normal for her. She just jumped up on my desk again... in fact she's laying in front of me as I type this.
 
MJ, thanks. She actually LOVES ice cream and would be overjoyed if I gave her some. I plan to retest her within the next 15 minutes. I may just go ahead and do it now since she's been so kind as to lay down in front of me.

Incidentally, your picture of Donovan looks exactly like my Cleo. Black and white tuxedo kitties with white front paws.
 
Ok, just retested and her level is still dropping - at 69 now. She is still acting fine though. Hanging out on my desk, tail thumping (normal for her, I'd worry if it wasn't moving!), alert and paying attention to what's going on.

I've been giving her tiny (kibble sized) pieces of freeze dried turkey as treats whenever I do the ear prick and she's liking those as treats.
 
Thanks for the update, Kathy. Not too bad, the drop to 69, but you'll need to stay on this, ok? It's important since there's not much data on Cleo yet, so we can't be certain where her nadir (lowest point in the BG curve, lowest drop) is.

It'd help to have the info on what "+ hour she is on right now. Please can you answer the following:

What is your local time NOW?
At what local time did Cleo get her shot?
At what local time was your last BG-test (the 69)?

Thanks!
Jane
 
You want to test her again in 30. Normally, you won't reach nadir until +6 after the shot. Because this is her very first day on insulin, nobody really knows what to expect in terms of the low point in the cycle timing. She could go down to 40 and you'd never know it by looking at her. But we don't want her going quite that low.
Carl
 
Treats are great, and they do learn quickly to expect them at pokey time, but those freeze-dried turkey things are like zero carb, so get some SUGAR into that girl as soon as you can. The insulin could kick in very soon.

Can you post a time course of what has happened so far?
i.e.
PS 161, gave 3U Lantus
+2 = 84
+?? = 69

etc

thanks!
MJ
 
Carl & Bob in SC said:
You want to test her again in 30. Normally, you won't reach nadir until +6 after the shot. Because this is her very first day on insulin, nobody really knows what to expect in terms of the low point in the cycle timing. She could go down to 40 and you'd never know it by looking at her. But we don't want her going quite that low.
Carl
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Hi Carl :-)
You posted in the alert-thread in LL that the reading of 84 was at (+2). That would put the reading of 69 at approx. (+2.5), yes? Just trying to stay on top of the timing :-)
Are you in Kathy's time zone? (We're in Cape Town. 20 to 9 in the morning here.)
Jane
 
Local time now is 11:38 PM (I'm PST).

Let me see if this helps summarize where we're at:

Pre-Insulin Level at 6:30 PM PST (-1.75 hours): 161
Dinner at 7:30 PM PST (-.75 hours)
Insulin Shot (3U) at 8:15 PM PST (0 hours)
Level at 10:30 PM PST (+2 hours): 84
Level at 11:30 PM PST (+3 hours): 69
 
Kathy-and-Cleo said:
Local time now is 11:38 PM (I'm PST).

Let me see if this helps summarize where we're at:

Pre-Insulin Level at 6:30 PM PST (-1.75 hours): 161
Dinner at 7:30 PM PST (-.75 hours)
Insulin Shot at 8:15 PM PST (0 hours)
Level at 10:30 PM PST (+2 hours): 84
Level at 11:30 PM PST (+3 hours): 69
Click to expand...

Perfect Kathy, thanks! Breathe :-) We're here.

Please re-test BG as Carl suggested, at (+3.5)--- at the witching hour, as it were :-) Until then, please make sure Cleo is in your line of sight, and just make sure she's acting normally.
Jane
 
I think i'm going to see if I can get her to eat some karo syrup with a treat. I hate spiking her sugar, but I don't want it to fall too low.
 
Hi Jane,
I based my guess on this:

Ok, just did a reading and her blood sugar is down to 84. This is about 2 hours past when we gave her the insulin.
Click to expand...

That was at 10:30 or so her local time? So Cleo should be at +3?

Carl
 
Kathy-and-Cleo said:
I think i'm going to see if I can get her to eat some karo syrup with a treat. I hate spiking her sugar, but I don't want it to fall too low.
Click to expand...

We should be at (+3.25) right now - if you want, you can test BG again before giving karo. Otherwise, give a drop of karo and go ahead with re-test at (+3.5).

Carl - are you in agreement with the timing sequence? Kathy posted it just a moment ago. (+3.5) = Midnight Kathy's time, yes?
Jane

P.S. Lots of First-Cycle-Excitement :-)
 
Good idea on giving her some sugary stuff. The insulin probably hasn't fully kicked in yet, so there may be more action on the horizon.

Thanks for clarifying the timing. And please do not, no matter what tomorrow morning's pre-shot level is, shoot another 3U. You may be advised not to shoot at all and see where her BGs are with a diet change first before adding insulin to the mix. There should be a number of experienced people around tomorrow to help you with that.

MJ
 
Ok, karo syrup on treat didn't work, she wasn't going for that! I did get a fingertip full of karo syrup in her and she's happily eating about two big teaspoon fulls of ice cream at the moment. I understand the fat in ice cream will make the sugar take longer to hit her system, but I figured it beats nothing and I really really don't want her blood sugar to get too low.

I do have honey straws that I could try if it looks necessary.

As an update on the whole cat - she's very alert, walking fine and was super excited to get the ice cream... outwardly she's showing no signs of trouble.
 
Kathy-and-Cleo said:
Ok, karo syrup on treat didn't work, she wasn't going for that! I did get a fingertip full of karo syrup in her and she's happily eating about two big teaspoon fulls of ice cream at the moment. I understand the fat in ice cream will make the sugar take longer to hit her system, but I figured it beats nothing and I really really don't want her blood sugar to get too low.

I do have honey straws that I could try if it looks necessary.

As an update on the whole cat - she's very alert, walking fine and was super excited to get the ice cream... outwardly she's showing no signs of trouble.
Click to expand...

Sounds good, Kathy. For future reference: If you rub a drop or two of karo on Cleo's gums, it will get into her system without her having to do any actual "eating", ok? You're doing great. Get ready to test in a few minutes, right?

Jane
 
Some cats show no hypo symptoms at all at low numbers. Good thing she's awake. Typically Donovan would throw low numbers at me in the middle of the night, and I'd have to keep waking him up every 20-30 min to feed and test him. He was like "Woman, just let me SLEEP already".

MJ
 
Hey, Kathy -

Lots of excitement! Just up for Hershey's +7 test and I read your post. I see you have several more experienced people helping you - especially Jane who is fresh and alert since it's morning in S Africa and Carl (3am our time) who I'd trust my kitty to even when he's tired, not sure if MJ is still here or not, but all of them have been at this longer than I have. Anyhoo - I mainly just wanted to wish you the best and say Hershey won't eat karo, either, but you can rub it on his gums - that'll get it into him (or her in your case) quickly.

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Hang in there. Hopefully this is as low as she will go. Sorry you have to go through this tonight, but very glad you found FDMB.

Are there enough other eyes here that I can hit the sack? Starting to get a little bit loopy.
And my PC is acting wonky now, so I'm afraid my connection is going to drop.

MJ
 
Kathy
Just curious.. have you been able to get blood on the first poke? If so, I'm really glad your vet gave you those 25g pokers today:-)
Carl
 
MJ,
I'm still here too. Thanks for coming:-)
This place ROCKS!
Carl
 
Keep breathing, Kathy :-)

A couple of things to look out for: Does Cleo have any hypo symptoms? Dilated pupils? Drooling? Shivering?

Also, and *I do NOT think you'll need this*, have you got a bulb syringe in the house? How many test strips have you got left?

You're doing great. Remember next BG test is coming up, k?
Jane
 
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