Just started ProZinc at 7units every 12hrs

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That's okay. It is in the same range as 131 and not in that more dangerous (50-60)range. What time zone are you in? If Pacific, is your pmps at midnight?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
So what is your schedule for shooting? 6am and 6pm? Sorry you are having a long night. It is 8:30 my time (MDT)
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I feed him at 430-445 and give him half hour to eat. Then 30-45 minutes after that I give the shot. So shot is between 5:30-545am and pm. This is only his 3rd shot. First one was last night. His bg was 464 and +2 was 406. Then this morning I gave him 3 units because he only ate half his food. Didn't take bg. Vet returned my call saying he gets full 7 units no matter how much he eats. So after eating about half a can for dinner I gave him the full 7 units against my gut feeling. He was sleeping sound and I had plans to test him at +4 but got on here once I read the info on PZI again. And here we are... just tested again 147! And a VERY annoyed kitty!
 
So glad he's come up! Usually we test, then feed, then shoot, all in about 15 minutes or so. Make sure he's had no food for 2 hours before that preshot (PS) test so that the number will not be food influenced.
 
Good that it is still going up. Being cautious, you might do one last test before going to sleep.

Do you have a treat he loves? We like PureBites and Bomito flakes at my house. They are both low carb. Save them only for the test. The idea is that he will look forward to getting the treat and put up with the test.

So, tomorrow at amps, he could be lower, under 200. If under 200 you can skip or stall. Stalling is waiting 20 minutes, without feeding, and retesting. You want to see if the number is rising, not falling, and over 200. Skipping is okay if the number is low. Not the best option long term, but might be wise if you won't be around to monitor.

Or he could be very high - because of the low number causing a bounce and/or because of the high carb he got. Regardless, you want to give less. I would be tempted to do a restart and give one unit. Test before each shot and get midcycle numbers when ever you can. If he is high and flat, raise the dose slowly and carefully.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Good that it is still going up. Being cautious, you might do one last test before going to sleep.

Do you have a treat he loves? We like PureBites and Bomito flakes at my house. They are both low carb. Save them only for the test. The idea is that he will look forward to getting the treat and put up with the test.

So, tomorrow at amps, he could be lower, under 200. If under 200 you can skip or stall. Stalling is waiting 20 minutes, without feeding, and retesting. You want to see if the number is rising, not falling, and over 200. Skipping is okay if the number is low. Not the best option long term, but might be wise if you won't be around to monitor.

Or he could be very high - because of the low number causing a bounce and/or because of the high carb he got. Regardless, you want to give less. I would be tempted to do a restart and give one unit. Test before each shot and get midcycle numbers when ever you can. If he is high and flat, raise the dose slowly and carefully.
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Just tested again and he's at 144. He's acting like he's starving which is better than sleeping like a log!
 
I will do a restart. I will test him before feeding and if over 200 give him 1 unit, right? I will get on my laptop and start the chart tomorrow. Idk what I would have done without you all!! I'm so thankful and appreciate all the help! Do you use neosporin with pain relief on your Kitty's ears? His poor ears look like a pin cushion! He doesn't seem to feel it just doesn't like me squeezing it a little to get a big enough sample.
 
That's right. One unit over 200. It may not be enough, but it's safer to increase slowly based on your testing than try to figure out how much to reduce. Yes, you can use Neosporin with pain relief. Also, hold onto the ear for a few seconds after you get the sample. That can help with bruising.

You did a wonderful job as did Bobbi and Sharon. Hope you can sleep well, knowing you probably saved his life. And now you have survived your first hypo - low numbers won't be so scary next time.
 
You've survived a trial by fire! Congrats to the folks helping you out. There's a nice write up in Sue's signature on using Prozinc and there are some useful links in my signature as well.

Do continue checking for a bit longer just in case he has a later nadir from the too high dose.

Also, some cats become more sensitive to insulin if they've experienced a hypo or near hypo period. Be very watchful tomorrow and only shoot if he is at or above 200 mg/dL on a human meter.
 
Morning all! Satan was 199 @5am. Last huge shot at 535pm yesterday. I'm not going to give him any insulin so should I still check it +6 from feeding? He ate 3.4 oz of food this morning and is on the table 15 minutes after I picked up his food, expecting more food. Vet said not to leave it out for him during the day... I feel like everything he told me is tainted now so what do you recommend doing with the rest of his wet food after he eats?
 
Good morning Steph, 199 is a great AMPS number! As far as food, many of us feed our cats small meals throughout the day, but others do the twice a day routine. @Bobbie And Bubba can give you an equation to use to figure calories needed. If you can check him today, that would be good data to have.
 
Hey Steph, here is the formula I like. Use the cats ideal weight in the formula
cat's weight X 13.5 + 70 Using a ten pound cat as the example 10 pounds X 13.5 = 135 +70=205
Take 205 and divide up the calories in to several meals. If your cat needs to gain weight, use that weight in the formula or if weight loss is needed, use what the ideal weight should be. This formula is a guideline to start with and depending how active your cat is, you might need to increase a little.

I feed by cat 6 times a day using a automatic feeder that is times when I can't be home. It is believed that several smaller feedings a day are better on the pancreas.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey Steph, here is the formula I like. Use the cats ideal weight in the formula
cat's weight X 13.5 + 70 Using a ten pound cat as the example 10 pounds X 13.5 = 135 +70=205
Take 205 and divide up the calories in to several meals. If your cat needs to gain weight, use that weight in the formula or if weight loss is needed, use what the ideal weight should be. This formula is a guideline to start with and depending how active your cat is, you might need to increase a little.

I feed by cat 6 times a day using a automatic feeder that is times when I can't be home. It is believed that several smaller feedings a day are better on the pancreas.
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He was healthy at 13 pounds so that would be 245.5. 6 oz of 9lives tuns and egg is about 255ish. So the 3oz per meal should be enough. A little over 1 can a day. Vet wanted him to have 1.5 cans a day but that works out to be target weight of 17 pounds! Too heavy for him.
I have another cat, Kitty aka Kitty-cow or O'bobo. He is a tuxedo and he's 19 pounds! He's down 1 pound since July. I'm trying to switch him to wet food from 4 health grain free dry on a 12 hr schedule but on a whim I checked him and his bg was 55. So I feed him his normal restricted amount throughout the day to keep him from going too low. Getting better at not forgetting I to cover his food so Satan can't get. Same for the dog's food!He is not diabetic. He has been tested. Just fat and happy. But I would like to prevent him from developing.
A lot of changes in our house but we will manage. I'll check his bg again at 6 hours after feeding and hopefully get the ss going. I feel so much more at ease after finding this forum. Thank you all.
 
Hi Steph - wow you certainly had some excitement last night - Depending on your schedule (are you home during the day?) one of the nice things about Prozinc is that the timing is somewhat flexible - so if you test Satie again in an hour or two, and it is really high- you could give the 1 unit then (and then the next dose is 12 hours later) What are you going to do about the vet? Are there others in your area?
 
You found yourself in the best place to get the help you need. You did a great job last night. It is really hard when you get bad advice from someone you're supposed to trust. Now that you're here things will get better.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Hi Steph - wow you certainly had some excitement last night - Depending on your schedule (are you home during the day?) one of the nice things about Prozinc is that the timing is somewhat flexible - so if you test Satie again in an hour or two, and it is really high- you could give the 1 unit then (and then the next dose is 12 hours later) What are you going to do about the vet? Are there others in your area?
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Yes I am home all day today. I worry about changing the insulin time because I'm always home at 530 am&pm I'm not always be home after 6am or before 5pm so that time just works perfect for my hubby and I. I will check him and see if he's high.
I am calling the vet today and giving him a piece of my mind. Odd thing is, my normal vet there is on maternity leave so I got stuck with Dr Fetterman. There are a bunch of different offices near me. Cornell University is only about 40 minutes away too! I will call the vet my old dog use to go to and see if she handles Feline diabetics. I'd love to go cause a scene but I know it wouldn't help my situation. I will warn all others about him and his major screw up!!
 
Sounds like you have things pretty much under control - it's okay to skip today - but since Prozinc is an in and out insulin - you do have some flexibility in timing and dosing -
The American Association of Feline Practitioners has a find a vet who is a member of the organization feature here It's no guarantee they are feline diabetes experts but at least it is a marker that they are interested in feline medicine. With the issues your cat has (do you really call him Satan? do you have a nick name for when he is sweet?) IBD and the like - he can be a complicated patient. I know because my cat also has IBD and the host of issues that go with that. It can get complicated and requires someone who is up to date. It would be great if you could find a great feline vet well versed in diabetes and IBD. By the way, when you get a chance, check out this website on IBD - it has a ton of valuable information Things will definitely get better now that you are on this forum - it would help to set up your spreadsheet today - I think Sharon sent you the instructions last night

Welcome Steph !!
 
I tend to call him Satan or baby kitty all the time. My hubby calls him Chuck but we originally named him Satan. My step dad's name is Chuck so I never used the name Chuck for him. A lot of people cringe when they hear the name but he got the name because his eyes glow red in pictures and he was a hellian as a kitten.
I tested him at 11am. It was 429! So it's up 230points 6 hours after eating.
 
It could also be high because of the low number and rapid fall he had yesterday The body then overcompensates by putting out glucagon to raise the blood sugar It's called a bounce If You want, you can shoot a little earlier tonight to get some insulin in him sooner
 
I set up the spreadsheet. My vet called back. Said he was giving me the dose for "cats who aren't responding to prozinc". Uhm. No excuses!! He also said that the correct dose he should be on is 3 units. I'm going to go with the recommendation of 0.1 per pound. I understand it is 0.1 to 0.3 and the 0.3 would be a total of 2.7 units so it is close to 3. I'm going to start with 1 unit this evening and monitor his levels at +2 hour increments for the whole 12 hours unless it starts to drop too low. He said if he's under 200 before eating to "maybe give him half" of the 3 units because the 429 this afternoon after no insulin is too high. I didn't bother getting to deep into conversation with him since we won't be back.
 
I started the process earlier tonight. Took bg at 3:55. He's eating now. Will shoot when he's done eating. I added about a half ounce of water to his food since he barely drank anything last night.
 
Eek! That's terrible am so glad you both got through it unscathed! Well done! :) keeping everything crossed for you both. :)
 
StephG said:
I set up the spreadsheet. My vet called back. Said he was giving me the dose for "cats who aren't responding to prozinc". Uhm. No excuses!! He also said that the correct dose he should be on is 3 units. I'm going to go with the recommendation of 0.1 per pound. I understand it is 0.1 to 0.3 and the 0.3 would be a total of 2.7 units so it is close to 3. I'm going to start with 1 unit this evening and monitor his levels at +2 hour increments for the whole 12 hours
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To be quite blunt, your vet is an idiot. Since you had barely started Satan on insulin, there was no way for the vet to say that he wasn't responding. He obviously has NO idea what he is doing and was just covering his butt with excuses. Please look for another vet ASAP.

Starting at 1 unit is the safest approach. With the help of the wonderful people on here you were able to avert a possible tragedy last night and with the help of the wonderful people on here, you will find the right dose that works best for Satan.

Major kudos on doing your own home-testing and for following your instincts on not trusting the dosing the vet suggested.


:bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
 
I agree Tuxedo Mom!
+2 BG was 473 up 18 points from pmps. Hopefully it will go down at least a little
 
Steph - don't worry if his numbers are high for a while until we get the dose sorted out - diabetic regulation is not usually an immediate occurrence (although it is for some lucky kitties) -
 
StephG said:
I agree Tuxedo Mom!
+2 BG was 473 up 18 points from pmps. Hopefully it will go down at least a little
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Also with having hit lower numbers last night and this morning this could simply be a "bounce" where the body releases counter-regulatory hormones in response to lower numbers that cause the glucose levels to go higher. This can take up to 3 days to settle back down. Starting low and slowly going up is the safest approach..
 
I read the info on ketones... so much info and so much stuff to worry about. The ketones thing scares the life out of me. Triggers anxiety because I don't have a way to test yet. I don't know if my very tested for them on 9/18 when he was Dx. They did $170 worth of blood work. Hopefully it was tested. I have a hard time shutting off my worrying.
Went down for +4 but didn't plummet so that's good. Low and slow works for me.
 
StephG said:
I read the info on ketones... so much info and so much stuff to worry about. The ketones thing scares the life out of me. Triggers anxiety because I don't have a way to test yet. I don't know if my very tested for them on 9/18 when he was Dx. They did $170 worth of blood work. Hopefully it was tested. I have a hard time shutting off my worrying.
Went down for +4 but didn't plummet so that's good. Low and slow works for me.
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Regular blood work would have a ketone reading done. If nothing was said, then "hopefully" there is no problem. One thing you should do is request a copy of all the tests that you have had done. You have paid for them and it is your right to request a copy. If the vet has a problem with giving them to you, just tell him you want them on hand in case you ever have to go to an ER.


You should be able to buy ketodiastix at most pharmacies.


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You either collect a sample of urine or put the strip into the flow as your kitty is peeing and read the results according to the instructions.
 
The ketostix are very easy to get - any drug store or even some grocery stores would have them - any place that sells diabetic supplies
Get some tomorrow and one less thing to worry about - everyone worries about ketones
Although one of the ingredients for DKA is lack of insulin - with those 7 units sweet Satan was getting, he did not have a lack of insulin. :bighug:
 
A bit off topic but do you know if I can change my view on the forum to see the latest response first?
 
StephG said:
A bit off topic but do you know if I can change my view on the forum to see the latest response first?
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Unfortunately this is the only way to view responses. It is actually better this way since anyone coming in to offer advice has to read through the posts and gets all the information that way.
 
AMPS is 474. Didn't get below 400 yesterday with a 1 unit shot. Should I try 1.5 today or stick with the 1? I will be able to check him at +5 and over. He ate almost a whole can. Around 4.5-5oz.
 
I gave him 1.25, estimated the best I could with the syringe. He ate a whole 5 oz. I weighed what was left with my kitchen scale. I'll check at +5 or earlier if I can. I don't think the additional .25 units will make a big difference since he ate so much and started at 474. Now I have to get ready for the day. Hope you all have a great day!
 
StephG said:
I gave him 1.25, estimated the best I could with the syringe. He ate a whole 5 oz. I weighed what was left with my kitchen scale. I'll check at +5 or earlier if I can. I don't think the additional .25 units will make a big difference since he ate so much and started at 474. Now I have to get ready for the day. Hope you all have a great day!
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Sorry no one was up when you asked for dosing advice. The 1.25 unit should be safe enough. Even though you see higher numbers it does not always mean that the dose should be increased. If Satan is "bouncing" into higher numbers from having gone low, it can take a few days before the "bounce" clears. Sometimes the hardest part of treating diabetes is learning to be patient and waiting to see how the insulin will work. Since you gave 1.25 units this morning you should stick with that for a few days and get some tests during the cycle as you are able to, in order to see how much of a drop that dose gives.

Satan may well need more increases, but it is safer to go slow and do small increases as needed. Good luck with the numbers today! :bighug:
 
Omg that vet is a moron!!! Thank God you test at home. If you had trusted him and didn't test your cat would have most likely died. That is a crazy high dose. Good job getting through that.
 
I think your 1.25 is fine, as there weren't any levels low last night. Good job getting those numbers!. Please do get some levels today so we can see whether he drops or stays flat. You can make your way back up by increasing every three cycles, if he stays high and flat.

There may not be anyone up as early as you some mornings. The member from the Netherlands has the same issue. One way to help this is to get some choices the night before - if he is here, do this. If he is here, do this. If you are ever unsure about shooting a lower than usual pre shot, you can stall without feeding and wait for advice, post on Health and ask (although you are less likely to get someone there who will give advise on an insulin they don't use) or skip.
 
Tested again at +8 and he was back up to 457. I am fighting with myself to not want to increase his dose. I will keep it at the 1.25 for 2 more shots (1 shot is a cycle right? or is it two?) and then I'll be asking away! After reading the ketones thing I'm paranoid. I haven't made it to walmart yet and and trying to think of how i'm going to get a urine sample! I'll have to remove the lid to his box. I think I read on here somewhere that you can put plastic wrap on top of the litter to catch a sample? I'll look again on here so we don't get into stuff that's already been answered. I feel like this site is the only thing keeping me somewhat sane right now.
 
StephG said:
Tested again at +8 and he was back up to 457. I am fighting with myself to not want to increase his dose. I will keep it at the 1.25 for 2 more shots (1 shot is a cycle right? or is it two?) and then I'll be asking away! After reading the ketones thing I'm paranoid. I haven't made it to walmart yet and and trying to think of how i'm going to get a urine sample! I'll have to remove the lid to his box. I think I read on here somewhere that you can put plastic wrap on top of the litter to catch a sample? I'll look again on here so we don't get into stuff that's already been answered. I feel like this site is the only thing keeping me somewhat sane right now.
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Yes you can spread saran wrap on top of litter. You can also use aquarium gravel and rinse it off after to use it again.
 
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