Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic kitty.

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JoeyB

Member Since 2013
I have a 12 year old, short haired tuxedo girl kitty. She has been healthy her entire life, but the last 2-3 weeks have been a turn around for her.

From my reading online, it seems to me like a sure bet on the diabetes. Excessive thirst/urination. Sweet smell to the urine. A slight peripheral neuropathy. Fatigue. It took me almost a week to figure out which one was doing this as I have 2 cats, and there were no obvious symptoms shown at first other then the change in litter box remains and water usage.

She was raised on dry cat food, so the first thing I did was begin making a transition to the wet cat food. That in itself was effort, but she is mostly on wet now. For a week or so, she gained a little weight, and seemed to be stabilizing on change in diet alone as I had hoped, but the last day or two have been a bit downhill again.

I haven't gotten a vet diagnoses yet due to cost, and was hoping she could possibly be non-insulin dependent, and have it dealt with in terms of diet.

She is not in obvious discomfort, though the change is easy to see. Less energy, coat a bit duller, starting to urinate/drink alot again, (which had gone way down in the last week). Diarrhea has also begun in the last 2 days as well.

I'm guessing I have to go to a vet if it gets much worse, but was hoping to find out if there were other more affordable options I could investigate on my own that wouldn't break the bank? I do have some cash available to work with in terms of food, supplements, etc. But the hundreds of dollars for diagnose are going to be hard for the time being.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for those that take the time to help. First kitty diabetic owner here, and uncomfortable not knowing everything I should.
If a bad call on the 911, I'm sorry. But this is really driving me nuts having seen her come back a bit, only to falter again.
JoeyB
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Hi Joey,
Can you buy a BG meter and test your cat's blood to see what it reads (although by what you wrote, it sure sounds like possible diabetes) There are lots of folks here who can help you learn to home test your cat. It is just a tiny poke in the ear on the 'sweet spot" and then the test strip will tell you what the sugar reading is.

I would take my kitty to the vet though. I hope you figure out a way. Is there a low cost vet/clinic in your area that goes by your income? If your cat gets worse, neuropathy and worse could be the outcome and you don't want that to happen. Also, if he is losing weight, the worst thing could be that he is throwing out ketones and that is a medical emergency and the cat could end up in serious trouble. Please bite the bullet and take him/her to the vet asap. Sorry, but you really need to find out what is going on.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Hi JoeyB, and welcome to FDMB,

It certainly sounds as though your cat is diabetic. If it is the case that she has some peripheral neuropathy (is she showing back leg weakness? Walking on her hocks at all?) then she has likely been diabetic for some time.... If diabetes is diagnosed then do rest assured that diabetes is treatable, and that there are ways of keeping the costs of treatment down.

The vast majority of newly diagnosed cats will need insulin shots twice a day. We also recommend that you learn to test your cat's blood glucose at home. This isn't nearly as hard as it sounds and will bring numerous benefits: It will help you to understand your cat's diabetes; it will help you to keep your cat safe from hypoglycemia (once she is on insulin); and it will save you a heap of money in vet's bills because you will be able to do all of the ongoing blood glucose monitoring yourself. Post diagnosis, most of us here only take our diabetic cats to the vet for general check-ups and things unrelated to the diabetes.

Regarding blood glucose meters, most of us here use ordinary meters that human diabetics use. Where are you in the world? Folks in your country will be able to give you meter suggestions.

Well done for transitioning to wet food. What exactly are you feeding? There may be a lower carb food you can switch to.

You will need a vet visit to confirm what is going on with your cat, and (probably) to get a prescription for insulin.

I strongly suggest that you nip out to a pharmacy and get a tub of Ketodiastix strips ASAP. These little strips are for dipping into urine to test for glucose in the urine and for ketones. Sugar in the urine would be indicative of diabetes (though a blood test should be done also to confirm dx). Any ketone reading above 'trace' is a reason for an urgent vet appt.

Here are a couple of links that give basic info on urine testing and 'hometesting' (testing cat's blood glucose at home).
http://www.sugarpet.net/urine.html
http://www.sugarpet.net/bloodtst.html


Eliz
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Where are you located? there may be members close by who can provide in person help, make vet recommendations, etc.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Joyce--Thanks for the reply! On my list of things to do, a BG meter is probably one of the first things to do. And believe me when I say a vet visit would be the first thing I would have done if I had the money, but I probably won't be able to do that until the first week of July. I'm not sure about low cost vet clinics around here, but have been looking into it.

Eliz--I'll deal with you questions in order. In regards to the peripheral neuropathy, it's not that bad. She has a tendency to settle to her hocks when giving her petting, or sometimes when drinking and eating, but as far as walking and jumping, she still does so on her paws. I do notice a lessening of strength in her rear, but that is more because I'm aware of her then obvious symptoms.

I am in Delaware, USA. So have many choices for BG meters. Best I've found so far for price is one at Walmart for approx 15 bux, and more for test strips. Probably be the way that I'm going.

As far as the wet food. I started with the Meow Mix wet since she was eating that dry food all her life. But upon further reading on-line, I found out it was basically junk food for cats so I started her on the Wellness wet packets today, but still have the problem of her drinking the juice, and not eating the meaty bits like she does with any other wet food. I've tried pureeing it in the blender, but once that is done, she won't touch it at all. I'm pretty much spending 3 times the necessary amount on food at the moment to make sure she is getting the calories she needs.

I also feed her Whiskas Temptations dry kibble treats because she likes them, and they are chock full of protein. This is done just to try and add to her calorie count to try and overcome any weight loss.

Also, thanks for the heads up on the Ketodiastix, will get them asap and start testing.

FYI, she seems to be doing better today then last night. I've noticed with her there are times during the night she seems extremely tired and lethargic yet seems to bounce back the next day. She was always a 24 hour kind of cat with her energy levels not varying much day to night. Is this something brought about by the illness perhaps?
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Hillary & Maui said:
Where are you located? there may be members close by who can provide in person help, make vet recommendations, etc.

Delaware USA.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Ok, where in DE? Near Wilmington by any chance? We have a great member who is in Wilmington and actually may be able to help you with supplies, as well as suggest a low cost vet, to confirm diagnosis.
She runs DCIN (diabetic cats in need) and is integral here.

Her name is Venita and I'll alert her to your post.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Hillary & Maui said:
Ok, where in DE? Near Wilmington by any chance? We have a great member who is in Wilmington and actually may be able to help you with supplies, as well as suggest a low cost vet, to confirm diagnosis.
She runs DCIN (diabetic cats in need) and is integral here.

Her name is Venita and I'll alert her to your post.

Just outside Wilmington, yup.

DCIN was how I found out about this board! Thanks for the alert sent her way.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Great, well Venita runs DCIN and whether representing DCIN or just being another care giver, she should be able to recommend a vet, as you will need to be working with a vet in order to get insulin from DCIN. Plus it's good to have a good vet on board, in case of emergencies.

We obviously can help teach you a lot - food, home testing, insulins - options, doses, etc. But we are not vets and while we know a lot, always good to have that professional support.

As others already mentioned, changing to low carb wet food is a great start, getting an inexpensive meter kit, strips and lancets and learning to home test will help you figure out if the BG (blood glucose) is too high and if food alone will or won't work.

You can go to Walmart and buy the meter, strips and lancets - Relion brand is the least expensive.

So, how else can we help you.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Hi Joey! The Walmart ReliOn meters have the of the cheapest test strips around so many of us use them here. The Confirm/Micro test strips are around $36 for a box of 100 and the Prime are around $9 for a box of 50 (they don't sell boxes of 100 for some reason. :roll: )

JoeyB said:
As far as the wet food. I started with the Meow Mix wet since she was eating that dry food all her life. But upon further reading on-line, I found out it was basically junk food for cats so I started her on the Wellness wet packets today, but still have the problem of her drinking the juice, and not eating the meaty bits like she does with any other wet food. I've tried pureeing it in the blender, but once that is done, she won't touch it at all. I'm pretty much spending 3 times the necessary amount on food at the moment to make sure she is getting the calories she needs.

I also feed her Whiskas Temptations dry kibble treats because she likes them, and they are chock full of protein. This is done just to try and add to her calorie count to try and overcome any weight loss.

Great job on already switching her off the dry food and onto wet. Here's a fantastic food list that many of us use around here. You want to find foods with less than 10% carbs (the lower the better).

As to treats, the best option are the freeze-dried meat treats since the Tempations also contain a lot of carbs. My cats also love a bit of raw chicken or boiled chicken breast.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

I also feed her Whiskas Temptations dry kibble treats because she likes them, and they are chock full of protein. This is done just to try and add to her calorie count to try and overcome any weight loss.

And chock full of carbs which is not a good thing for a possibly diabetic cat to eat. Kpassa give you a list of good low carb treats to choose from. I would recommend using one of those.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Joey,

What is your cat's name?

I am in North Wilmington, near State Police Troop #1. I can drop by sometime and give you a hometesting lesson; I'll even bring a Relion starter kit along. Or if you are available this Friday at 4pm, I am doing a training session with the shelter staff at Faithful Friends Animal Society in South Wilmington. You could go as my guest and listen to the spiel and then we could go try out the testing on your girlie.

I don't know any low-cost vet opportunities around here except for spay/neuter. I use the Chester County Cat Hospital in West Chester PA, and treating my diabetic there was relatively inexpensive because the vet trusted me to handle the insulin therapy on my own with hometesting and the education/guidance I received on the FDMB. After awhile, the vet and I didn't even talk about my cat's diabetes at his vet visits. Depending on finances, I may be able to talk to the clinic owner about cutting you a break on the diagnostic procedures.

You can email me at Venita@dcin.info to make any of those arrangements.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Venita and Ennis93 said:
Joey,

What is your cat's name?

You can email me at Venita@dcin.info to make any of those arrangements.

My sick kitty is Trinity, and the other I have who is healthy is named Nubi. Both 12 years old. They were 6 and 9 months old when I got them.

I've sent the email, and want to thank you again for your offer of instructions and supplies to start me out!

I look forward to finding more out soon, and appreciate everyones attention to my earlier questions.

Quick update, She doesn't like the Wellness packets like I hoped, but still manages to eat a good portion of the Fancy Feasts classics. She does still munch on a little bit of dry food, but not alot. I let her do it at the moment to keep her calorie count up since her appetite hasn't been the best as of late. I mix in a couple Hartz Precision Nutrition vitamin tablets to her wet food to help as well. Tomorrow I will probably be finding some suitable treats from the above list tomorrow, (Thanks Kpassa!)
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Fancy Feast classics are a good food if she will eat that. Sounds like you are in good hands with Venita. I am sure that you will get your kitty feeling better soon. The Vet visit is imperative though as you can't get insulin if kitty needs it without a prescription. Also, you need a definitive diagnosis. Best to you and Trinity! You came to the right place to get help. These people are amazing and go the extra mile for you.

Edited to add that I think those Temptations treats are what sent my Simon into diabetes. My hubby was giving him way too many and they are very high in carbs. If your cat is as carb sensitive as my cat, that could send his BG way up. Hoping you can find a better treat from the list. My cat loves the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken. You can buy the big bag made for dogs and break them into small pieces and they will last a long time if you just give them at test times. My Simon actually goes to his test spot just to get some of them. He loves them that much that he will put up with the ear poke to eat some ;-)
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

I buy chicken when its on sale and cook it a package at a time. Then I dice it up stick it in a bowl in the fridge. Instant treats anytime. My kitty dont like the chicken cold so I warm it up to "mouse temperature" for her. In the long run I thinks it cost less than buying treats since I buy a lot when its on sale. Keep the packages frozen until I need one. Its worth a try! bcatrun_gif
Welcome!!
Terriy
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

I visited with Joey and Trinity and civie Nubi today. Nice fellow; cute kitties. Trinity's BG was 311, her ears bleed like a veteran's. That BG level, together with her clinical symptoms--PU/PD, lethargy, disinterest in food, poor coat at times--indicate that she is diabetic, although fairly new to the dance. Trinity will be going to my vet soon for a full workup and a Lantus prescription. If Joey can get her transitioned to a low-carb wet food, a little difficult right now because of her inappetance, she is a great candidate for a quick remission.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

I don't know you Venita, but you are a legend around here and even a Newbie like me knows that. What a wonderful thing you did for Joey and his Trinity. You and people just like you are what makes me come here day after day to help my cat get OTJ. I know it can be done because of those of you who have come before me and have shown us the way. Thank you. I am sure that Trinity will get great care now.

Joey, thank goodness you stumbled on this site. It is a God Send! Welcome!
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

If Joey can get her transitioned to a low-carb wet food, a little difficult right now because of her inappetance, she is a great candidate for a quick remission.
If Venita thinks you can get Trinity to remission, we here on FDMB will try our very best to help you anyway we can to get there.

Please, ask any questions you may have. Someone will know the answer. If our first suggestions don't work, ask again. We often have Plan b, c, d, e, f, g, h, ................. waiting in the wings.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Deb & Wink said:
If Joey can get her transitioned to a low-carb wet food, a little difficult right now because of her inappetance, she is a great candidate for a quick remission.
If Venita thinks you can get Trinity to remission, we here on FDMB will try our very best to help you anyway we can to get there.

Please, ask any questions you may have. Someone will know the answer. If our first suggestions don't work, ask again. We often have Plan b, c, d, e, f, g, h, ................. waiting in the wings.

I can't say how much I appreciate Venita's help in all of this! Trinity is doing well now that I've got her off the high carb stuff, and despite her dislike for the meaty bits, she'll lick the juice dry on any wet food I give her! She eaten 4 cans like that in the last day, and has shown a marked improvement in her coat, personality, and playfulness! I'm looking forward to getting her to the vet on monday, and you can be sure I'll post here afterwards to let everyone know how she is doing!

and yes! Simon'sMommy...you're right. Venita was a godsend! I've not had a decent nights sleep in the last week and a half over this, but slept wonderfully last night, and plan to do so tonight as well knowing that my Trinity is on the right path now!

Deb & Wink ... Venita did such a good job answering my questions and filling me in, I'm actually without a question at the moment. You can be sure that once the vet visit is done come monday, and I begin to make a serious effort to get both of my girls on a straight wet diet, I'll have lots of questions on how to make it easier, and which directions to go in for foods.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Simon'sMommy said:
Fancy Feast classics are a good food if she will eat that. Sounds like you are in good hands with Venita. I am sure that you will get your kitty feeling better soon. The Vet visit is imperative though as you can't get insulin if kitty needs it without a prescription. Also, you need a definitive diagnosis. Best to you and Trinity! You came to the right place to get help. These people are amazing and go the extra mile for you.

Edited to add that I think those Temptations treats are what sent my Simon into diabetes. My hubby was giving him way too many and they are very high in carbs. If your cat is as carb sensitive as my cat, that could send his BG way up. Hoping you can find a better treat from the list. My cat loves the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken. You can buy the big bag made for dogs and break them into small pieces and they will last a long time if you just give them at test times. My Simon actually goes to his test spot just to get some of them. He loves them that much that he will put up with the ear poke to eat some ;-)

I've tried the Fancy Feast classics, but Trinity won't do a thing with them, it's almost like she doesn't even consider it food. The only way she's eating wet at the moment is to lick the juice out of pouches and the like. I'm spending way too much at the moment making sure she's getting the calories she needs, but have to eventually stop. Vernita brought by some of the dried chicken bits, and though she's eaten 2-3 at times. Trinity doesn't seem thrilled with them much. Nubi on the other hand seems to eat just about anything I put in front of her, so I see the change over to wet for her being a piece of cake.

Maybe after I see the vet and get some insulin in Trinity, her appetite will improve and she'll begin eating all that is put in front of her. One step at a time as I see it now. Push the calories and lower the carbs now, and take care of the food transition later. Whewww...
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

terriy said:
I buy chicken when its on sale and cook it a package at a time. Then I dice it up stick it in a bowl in the fridge. Instant treats anytime. My kitty dont like the chicken cold so I warm it up to "mouse temperature" for her. In the long run I thinks it cost less than buying treats since I buy a lot when its on sale. Keep the packages frozen until I need one. Its worth a try! bcatrun_gif
Welcome!!
Terriy

I've not tried the cooked chicken with Trinity, but know from the past when offered bits of chicken from a chicken finger I had, she wasn't really all that interested in it. Nubi however, she'll eat anything as I've mentioned above. I'm going to have to watch her weight I think, Vernita mentioned that Nubi might be just a bit overweight.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

I found it challenging getting my cats to eat the canned food. I thought Maui would be the problem and well it did take several weeks of my spoon feeding her canned food to finally understand that this is good stuff and to eat it.

The bigger problem it turned out was my civvie Buster who ate canned and dry and when the dry disappeared, she refused to even eat the canned food at all. I had to trick her into eating, by adding dry pieces to the canned food and even giving her small handfuls of dry because she would refuse to eat at all and I couldn't let her not eat for more than one day.

Dr. Lisa offers lots of suggestions and tips on how to transition a cat to eat canned/wet food. check it out, you may find that one or several of them work for you. http://www.catinfo.org

Here is the excerpt:


Resign yourself to the fact that you will be very frustrated at times and you will be wasting canned food as they turn up their nose at it. Also, you may want to immediately switch your cat to a dry food that has fewer calories from carbohydrates than most dry foods. (e.g., EVO)

Keep in mind that different tricks work on different cats:

If your cat has been eating dry food on a free-choice basis, take up the food and establish a schedule of 2 - 3 times per day feedings. I really do prefer just twice-daily feedings when trying to transition them. A normal, healthy hunger response after 12 hours goes a long way to convince them to try something new.

Once the cat has transitioned to canned food, I prefer to either free-feed them (if they are not too fat) or to put out a meal 3-4 times per day. Small cats in the wild eat 8-10 small meals per day. I do not worry about leaving canned food out for up to 12 hours at a time. Keep in mind that a lion is not going to eat his entire prey immediately.

If you want to take the transition very slowly, you can feed the amount that your cat normally consumes in a 24 hour period - split up into two feedings to get him used to meal feeding. Many people, however, are unsure as to how much their free-fed cat really eats so I would start off by figuring out the calories that your cat needs to maintain his weight if he does not need to lose any weight.

Again, most cats only need 150-250 calories/day. The dry food bag should tell you how many calories are in a cup of food but if it does not, you can call the company.

Leave the dry food down for 20 minutes, and then remove any uneaten portion. Repeat in 8-12 hours depending on if you are feeding 2 or 3 times per day. During the first few days of transitioning to a set schedule, you can offer canned food during the dry food meals, or in-between meals. The stubborn ones, however, will not touch it. Do not despair - all cats will eventually eat canned food if their caregiver is determined, methodical, and patient enough. Once your cat is on a schedule you will notice that he is more enthusiastic about food during his proper mealtimes and will be much more inclined to try something new.

Once you have established scheduled mealtimes, you will most likely need to start feeding a bit less at each mealtime in order to get the normal sensation of hunger to work in your favor. Again, we are trying to use the normal sensation of hunger to help us out. We are not trying to starve the cat into the diet change.

Once your cat is on a schedule of meal-feeding instead of free-feeding, try feeding a meal of canned food only. If he will not eat it - and the very stubborn ones won't - try not to get frustrated - and do not put down dry food. Try some of the other tips listed below. If he still will not eat the canned food, let him get a bit hungrier. Offer the canned again in a couple of hours - or just leave it out. Some cats will be more apt to try something new if they keep walking by it and seeing/smelling it. Try a different brand/flavor or a different 'trick'. Once it has been ~18 hours since he has eaten anything, give him just a small amount (1/4 of a cup - or less if it is EVO) of his dry food - keeping track of his daily caloric intake.

Remember to be patient.

Exercising your cat with a tassel toy before feeding can also help stimulate his appetite.


Cats' noses are much more sensitive than ours are. They can smell the dry food in the cupboards. I suggest either putting it in the refrigerator or putting it in a tightly sealed container. If they can smell it, they will hold out for it. Some people recommend getting it out of your house completely, but this is not possible when you are dealing with a very stubborn cat that needs a bit of time and patience to make the transition happen.

The following worked for my cats: Sprinkle a very small amount of tuna – or any other favorite treat (some cats do not like fish and would prefer cooked chicken) - on top of the canned food and then once they are eating this, start pressing it into the top of the new food. (The “light” tuna is better than the fancy white tuna because it has a stronger smell. Or, Trader Joe’s makes a Cat Tuna that is very stinky.) Be careful to decrease the amount of fish as soon as possible. Health problems can occur with a predominantly fish-based diet. Plus, you do not want to create a situation where your cat will only eat very fishy foods.

Make sure that any refrigerated canned food is warmed up a bit. Cats prefer their food at 'mouse body temperature'.

Try offering some cooked (or raw - whole meats, rinsed well or partially baked) chicken or meat baby food. One of the goals is to get your cat used to eating food that does not crunch. He needs to get used to a different texture. Also, chicken is a great source of protein to point him in the proper direction toward a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. If he eats the chicken, he may head right into eating canned food. Then again....he may not.

Try sprinkling some parmesan cheese on the canned food. Most cats love parmesan cheese and this trick has been very successful for me.

Try a product called FortiFlora - feline version. Most cats LOVE FortiFlora and this has recently become my favorite trick. This is a probiotic made by Purina but you are not going to use it for its probiotic properties. You are just going to use it as a flavor enhancer. The base ingredient in FortiFlora is animal digest - the very substance that makes dry food so very enticing to cats. The directions say to use 1 package/day - and you can use this much if you want to - but this amount is not usually necessary. You may only need ~1/4 of a package - or much less - with part mixed into the food and part sprinkled on top of the food just as you would use salt and pepper on your own food.

FortiFlora can be purchased online but an easier product to find is Temptations treats. I trap a lot of feral cats for spaying/neutering purposes and this is one of the best baits that I can use. These tasty treats can be found at most pet stores. Put a few in a baggie and crush them with a hammer. Use the crushed treats as described for the FortiFlora above.

There are numerous freeze dried meat treats on the market that you can also sprinkle on top of the canned food. Halo's Liv A Littles is a popular choice.

Speaking of texture, a common question is "can I just soak the dry food in water?" I hedge more than just a bit at this question. Dry food often has a very high bacterial content. Mold is also often found in dry food. Both organisms flourish in moist environments. There have been many deaths of dogs and cats secondary to eating mold mycotoxins, vomitoxins and aflatoxins which often contaminate the grains found in dry food. If you want to try the trick of wetting down the dry food to alter the texture, please leave it out for only 20-30 minutes then discard it.

Try dipping some dry food pieces in the juice from the canned food. Some cats may refuse to eat it if the dry food even touches the canned food. But if he will eat it with a bit of canned juice on it, try the 'chip and dip' trick. Scoop up a tiny bit of canned food onto the piece of dry food. Put them on a separate plate from his small portion of dry food. Some cats will eat their small portion of dry and then go investigate the dry food with a tiny bit of canned on it.

Going one step further, try adding a few small pieces of the canned food to the small portion of dry food. Your cat may pick around the canned food but will get used to the smell - and texture - even if he does not eat any pieces of the new food.

Crush some dry food and sprinkle it on the top of the canned food.

If you do not think it will upset your cat, try gently rubbing a bit of canned food or juice on the cat's gums This may get him interested in the taste and texture of the new food - but do it gently. You do not want to make this a stressful situation and create a food aversion. (This trick is commonly used to get just-weaned kittens used to eating canned food.)

If you do not think it will upset your cat, use your finger to put a tiny bit of canned food or juice on his paw for him to lick off. This has not worked for me in the two cats I have tried it on but it is another idea. Make sure you do it without stressing your cat. Again, you do not want to create a food aversion.

If you have a multiple cat household, some cats like to eat alone in a less stressful environment, so you may need to take these cats into a separate, quiet room to think about the error of their ways - their carbohydrate/dry food addiction. Once in a quiet setting, away from the other cats, two of my cats would eat canned food/tuna ‘meatballs’ by hand. Not from a bowl, mind you, but only from my hand. I’m not sure who was being trained. They did eventually start eating from a bowl after a few hand feedings.

Try various brands and flavors of canned foods. Try Friskies, 9-Lives, Fancy Feast, etc. Many cats prefer the foods that are all by-products and turn their noses up when offered the by-product-free diets like Wellness, etc. You can worry about feeding a a different canned food later if you want to and you can always mix different types of food together. The initial goal is just to get your cat used to eating canned food and not dry kibble. And remember what I said above. I would much rather see a cat eating a canned food like Friskies, 9-Lives, or Fancy Feast rather than any dry food.

Syringe-feeding is also another option but has to be done with finesse and patience so as to avoid a food aversion. If you choose to syringe-feed, your goal is not to feed him a full meal. Sometimes just syringing a 1-2 cc's can 'jump-start' your cat into eating the canned food - maybe not the first time but it will at least get him to taste the new food and experience a foreign texture. The best way to syringe-feed is to kneel on the floor with your cat between your legs so he is facing the same way as you are. Then, using a small (1cc/TB) syringe, slip it in the side of his mouth and give about 1/2 cc at a time. He may spit it out but you are just trying to get him used to the taste and texture, not stress him.

Few canned foods will make it through the tip of a syringe but human meat baby food works well for this trick. You can also water it down a bit if you need to.

If you want to use canned cat food instead of baby food, you will need to cut the end off of the syringe so that the opening is as big as the barrel. Make sure that the tip is smooth. If you do not want to cut the tip of the syringe off, you will need to puree a pate (versus chunks) type of food. I puree Wellness for this. I run it through the blender with a small amount of water (~3-4 tablespoons/5.5 ounce can). Then I strain it to remove anything big enough to clog the small tip of the syringe. Wellness is also a balanced diet - unlike human baby food.

Even though human baby food is not a balanced diet for long-term use, it is a great tool that can be used to help transition a cat to a texture that he is not used to.

I did have to take drastic measures for a foster cat named Molly. She was dangerously obese (20 lbs - double what she should have weighed) and would not eat canned food even after two weeks of syringe-feeding her. She needed to go in for a dental so while she was under general anesthesia, I put in a feeding tube. This took the stress off of both of us. After two weeks of feeding her via the tube she started licking the canned food from my fingers then suddenly decided it was time to eat it. She then started to finally lose weight. Before the 7 lbs weight loss, she could barely walk, could not clean herself, and was quite possibly headed for diabetes.

Don't give up. One of my barn cats ate dry food for the first 12 years of her life. She would never touch the canned food that the other cats ate. Then, one day, she found her 'inner carnivore' and started eating canned food out of the blue! I was shocked. That was 4 years ago and she has been on a 100% canned food diet since she made the switch.

These are just a few tricks that you can try. Different tricks work on different cats. The key is to be patient. Remember, it took me three months to get my cats on 100% canned food. Most cats, however, will not take this long.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Venita and Ennis93 said:
I visited with Joey and Trinity and civie Nubi today. Nice fellow; cute kitties. Trinity's BG was 311, her ears bleed like a veteran's. That BG level, together with her clinical symptoms--PU/PD, lethargy, disinterest in food, poor coat at times--indicate that she is diabetic, although fairly new to the dance. Trinity will be going to my vet soon for a full workup and a Lantus prescription. If Joey can get her transitioned to a low-carb wet food, a little difficult right now because of her inappetance, she is a great candidate for a quick remission.

One further update before I take my Trinity to the Vet at 6:30pm.

She's been doing great over the weekend, energy levels up, appetite coming around although she is still not thrilled with the wet food, lapping the gravy up, and leaving the meaty bits. I'm not too concerned with this due to her having come around to the dried chicken, so I know her protein intake is improving.

She's actually gained a little weight, and her coat is back to the silky smooth it was before all of this began as well.

I've not tried the BG test again since my earlier failures since I know by her reaction to the meds that she is doing better. I will speak with the vet while I'm there to maybe try and improve my skill at that. I've been so happy to see her doing better, I didn't want to taint it too much by continuing to fail at the testing until I've had a chance to be shown how to do it again properly.

Thanks again to everyone that helped, and a special blessing to Venita for all of her help during this rough period. I don't know what I would have done without her!

I will update after the vet appointment to let everyone know how things are going, but I don't see anything strange popping up that we don't already know about. At least I'm hoping so!
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

OMG you gave me a fright!! a candle means the cat has passed on...

Please take the candle down and let us know how the vet goes tonite! Be prepared for conflicting advice unless your vet is awesome which I always hope. Come back here and lets discuss ;)
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Wendy&Tiggy said:
OMG you gave me a fright!! a candle means the cat has passed on...

Please take the candle down and let us know how the vet goes tonite! Be prepared for conflicting advice unless your vet is awesome which I always hope. Come back here and lets discuss ;)

I'm so sorry about the candle. It was obviously not what I meant!

Things went well at the vets! Diabetes was confirmed with the blood test and exam. Insulin was prescribed, and she is already on an upturn in her personality, appetite, and energy levels!

They couldn't get urine the first time around, so I went back the next day and had that taken care of, still waiting on the results from that.

The blood tests came came around 300 again on the BG level. The only other numbers that concerned the vet were her calcium, phospherus, and something to do with her liver. Fatty liver I seem to remember her saying. Potentially, but also a possible side effect from the recent diet change from strictly dry food to wet. We'll look into those numbers again in a month or so she said.

In regards to the conflicting opinions, I know exactly what you mean. The vets seem to deemphasize the BG testing for awareness of her numbers, as opposed to keeping an eye more on her clinical signs. I've not had alot of success with the blood letting part of the BG testing yet, but am committed to getting better at it so I can be more aware of where she is going with the treatment. I'm hoping with a transition to a far better diet, my new sugar kitty will come around to not needing the insulin.

Time will tell I guess, but I've come through the darkest part of this tunnel and have re-emerged into the light finally. I know I've got alot of work ahead of me to get her diet changed over, and to care for her diabetes with insulin if that is what it comes to.

I'm so happy I found this place, and the people in it during my internet travels. You helped me through the worst, and it gets better now. You can be sure that I'll always have a bookmark to get back here to make sure I'm up on the most recent information.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

So happy to hear that you and kitty are on your way. What type of insulin did the vet prescribe by the way? There are special threads for the different types of insulin as they are all different in the way they act on a cat. If it is ProZinc, then go to the PZI area. If Lantus or Levemir, there is an area for those too. If it is anything "other" than those three, then we will likely be advising you to speak to the vet about a change as those are the 3 that work the best in a cat. Either way, you have accomplished a lot and your sugar dance has officially begun. May it be a short and fast number rather than a long slow waltz. ;-)
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Ok well now we know we can take some actions..

1. is she still eating any dry? If so , try and get her off it - assuming you are testing - see 3 below

2. what kind of insulin did they prescribe and what dose?

3. Home testing! What are the issues? Are you getting any blood at all? Did you see these tips? https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub
Key things
1. Big lancets - 28g or 29g. The ones that come with the meters are usually too fine at first
2. Ear has to be warm
3. Something firm behind the ear to press against like a small flashlight or pill bottle lid.

Fatty liver is usually from not eating enough. If you cant get her to eat enough Fancy feast then maybe we need to try a low carb dry. How much is she eating now?

Wendy
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Simon'sMommy said:
So happy to hear that you and kitty are on your way. What type of insulin did the vet prescribe by the way? There are special threads for the different types of insulin as they are all different in the way they act on a cat. If it is ProZinc, then go to the PZI area. If Lantus or Levemir, there is an area for those too. If it is anything "other" than those three, then we will likely be advising you to speak to the vet about a change as those are the 3 that work the best in a cat. Either way, you have accomplished a lot and your sugar dance has officially begun. May it be a short and fast number rather than a long slow waltz. ;-)

The vet prescribed Lantus, and Trinity's response to it has been amazing. In a matter of days the turnaround has been almost complete. The BG is still high, but her appetite and personality have fully returned. I'm going to be pushing both the cats hard towards a wet diet now.

It's somewhat funny, Nubi, my other cat, has probably gained as much as Trinity has lost during this whole thing. Now I have to bring her weight back to normal since she has been enjoying being able to finish up what Trinity didn't. They'll both be on full wet soon enough, I just have to convince them of that. With Trinity's health better, I don't mind pushing as much in that direction as I did before.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Wendy&Tiggy said:
Ok well now we know we can take some actions..

1. is she still eating any dry? If so , try and get her off it - assuming you are testing - see 3 below

2. what kind of insulin did they prescribe and what dose?

3. Home testing! What are the issues? Are you getting any blood at all? Did you see these tips? https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub
Key things
1. Big lancets - 28g or 29g. The ones that come with the meters are usually too fine at first
2. Ear has to be warm
3. Something firm behind the ear to press against like a small flashlight or pill bottle lid.

Fatty liver is usually from not eating enough. If you cant get her to eat enough Fancy feast then maybe we need to try a low carb dry. How much is she eating now?

Wendy

1. Still eating dry, but that's just to finish what they had left in the bag. I'd say about 3/4's of what she eats is wet now.
2. Lantus, 1 unit 2/x a day.
3. Haven't gotten back to testing yet, but will be doing so over the weekend.
4. Eating fine, but still mostly only juice on the wet. I've got her on vitamin supplements to help with what she is missing. And some chicken treats to make up for the lack of protein.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Hi Joey, Would you be so kind as to put some information in your signature to help us help you better?


Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better. This will take about 5 minutes of your time.
Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts. One reason we like to see this information in your signature is because if there is ever an emergency situation like a possible hypoglycemic episode, we don’t have to ask a lot of questions like what meter you are using to give you the best advice. Doing this signature update is totally optional, but it does help us to help you better.
If you are willing to do this, would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.
Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Profile.
Go down to the location field and enter your country, state/province, and city if you are willing to share that info.
Click on submit to save this change.

Still in the User Control Panel, Profile tab, this time select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
A free form text box appears.
We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)

Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.

There is an additional document you can create to provide even more information about your cat. This is also optional to create this google document and link it into your signature. The profile is in addition to the synopsis info in your signature. See this link on the how to's of profile creation. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79123
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Deb & Wink said:
Hi Joey, Would you be so kind as to put some information in your signature to help us help you better?


Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better. This will take about 5 minutes of your time.

All done and now everyone can see my beautiful girls too!

Thanks for the heads up, and cross your fingers for me with my jump into BG testing starting tomorrow into the weekend?
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Pictures!!!!! We love to see pictures of other people's cats. Now we need a who's who. The one on the left is Trinity and the one on the right is???

Thanks for the signature info.

Thanks for the heads up, and cross your fingers for me with my jump into BG testing starting tomorrow into the weekend?
Good luck with the BG testing tomorrow.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Deb & Wink said:
Pictures!!!!! We love to see pictures of other people's cats. Now we need a who's who. The one on the left is Trinity and the one on the right is???

Thanks for the signature info.

Thanks for the heads up, and cross your fingers for me with my jump into BG testing starting tomorrow into the weekend?
Good luck with the BG testing tomorrow.

Busy day at work and too frazzled for the BG testing tonight. Will probably do it in the morning before her shot.

Nubi is the black kitty on the right. I suspect her to be Bombay from her features, but bought her along with Trinity at a pet store in Bear Delaware, 2002. They were 6 months for Trinity, and 9 months old for Nubi when I took them to the vet for the first time soon after getting them. I've had them since, and they've both been pretty healthy cats until just recently with Trinity.

There was an eye infection they both got when I lived in Las Vegas for a couple years, but aside from that, nothing.

This took me by surprise, and you don't know how much I appreciate all the support I got from here! And more into the future that I look forward to!

Venita was nice enough to have a small box of Fortiflora shipped to me to help with the transition to wet food full time for both of my cats. Nubi is taken reasonably well to it, but Trinity is taking a bit longer. Now that she is much more healthy then when all this started, I'm going to be working much harder to get Trinity completely off the dry due to her diabetes, and wanting to further take better care of her to try and help her into remission if possible.

A-lot of work in front of me, but their both worth it for all they've given me over the years!
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Let us know how we may help you more. Ask questions, cry on our shoulders, rant and rave.

We can answer most if the diabetes related questions you have. And some other conditions too.

Hope to be seeing more of you on the board. Good luck with the food transition.

My Wink was a dry food addict so I have tried almost all those tips in Dr. Lisa Pierson's article on transitioning dry food addicts to wet food. It can be a long difficult journey but the payoff was worth it. I got Wink OTJ!
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

So hows things going? How did the home testing go? Some cats are easier than others but they all "learn" to bleed in a week or two.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Wendy&Tiggy said:
So hows things going? How did the home testing go? Some cats are easier than others but they all "learn" to bleed in a week or two.

To be honest with you, I've not tested much as of late.

I've been putting most of my attention towards changing the diets of both cats to strictly wet, and it has been going slowly due to both of their addictions to dry food but progress has been made.

Trinitys energy, personality, and appetite levels have been somewhat normal the last couple weeks, and I haven't wanted to push the testing on her due to my own inexperience. The few times I've tested, it seems that the meter always errors out. This is despite the fact that a test on my own blood has always come out somewhat close to normal.

There have been a couple nights during this period that Trinity doesn't seem normal in regard to clinical symptoms. Lethargic, not herself, that kind of thing. But mostly she has been good. She has regained most of the weight she lost during her initial reaction to the diabetes, so I'm not overly concerned with the current dose, but I do know I have to eventually get around to testing her on a regular basis to ensure that she is taken care of to the best of my ability.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Anytime you see lethargy, you need to check if the glucose is low and if ketones are present (urine test). Either can be fatal.

Hypoglycemia - too low glucose - kills quickly. The cat may show few to no signs until actively seizuring. The most important tests are before shots to make sure it is safe to give insulin, plus around the expected nadir to make sure the insulin dose is optimal.

Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), a potentially fatal, very expensive to treat (thousands), complication of unregulated diabetes. If you use KetoDiaStix, you'll get info on both ketones and glucose spilling in the urine since the last void. Glucose in the urine also indicates that the insulin dose may not be optimal.

It may help to shift to a lower carb dry food as part of your transitioning, so you get the diabetes as well controlled as possible while making the food change. Young Again 0 carb (5% calories from carbohydrate, internet sales only), Wellness Core in gold and tan bag (11% calories from carbohydrate), Evo Cat and Kitten (after 6/10/2013 recall date) and Stella & Chewy's freeze dried (intended to be rehydrated, so may help with transitioning) are some options.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

I agree with BJ - the change of food could mean her needs for insulin have dropped and her blood sugar is dropping too low. OR she could be going too high. Its important to always get a test before giving insulin just to keep her safe and to test around the time she is acting odd so that you see why. She may need a dose change.

Whats the error message you are getting on the meter?

Wendy
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

Wendy&Tiggy said:
I agree with BJ - the change of food could mean her needs for insulin have dropped and her blood sugar is dropping too low. OR she could be going too high. Its important to always get a test before giving insulin just to keep her safe and to test around the time she is acting odd so that you see why. She may need a dose change.

Whats the error message you are getting on the meter?

Wendy

I keep getting the e-7 message that it wasn't enough blood. Annoying but I'll get over it eventually. Started a new job this week and getting used to a new schedule doesn't help much either.

I did forget to mention one thing, I do have the ketone test strips, and her urine has consistantly shown none. I suspect her blood sugar may still be on the high side, but not so much to start kicking ketones.

I realize I've put off regular BG testing due to life issues, and will be dealing with it sooner then later.
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

You might want to get a relion micro or confirm as they dont need a lot of blood. Also there are tweaks you can make to get more blood - are you using the tool or freehanding?

1. Make sure the ear is very warm
2. Use bigger lancets (28 or 29g)
3. Poke two holes beside each other
4. put something hard behind the ear to press against ie pill bottle lid


no ketones is good but it doesnt mean her BG isnt out of control.
Wendy
 
Re: Just signed in with un-diagnosed potentially diabetic ki

If you're getting enough blood but it doesn't seem to be sucking up properly, you can also try transferring the blood drop to your fingernail or a piece of foil first and see if you're more successful with that.
 
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