Just FYI - Low numbers AT2 vs. Freestyle Lite

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Toro & Ovi

Toro & Ovi

Member Since 2017
Good Morning, this just info if somebody is trying to switch AT2 to Freestyle Lite:

AT2=74
FL = 41

We already started to adapt the human meter spreadsheet to these numbers, based on out AT2 spreadsheet.
Now that we know the minimum green we will look for the maximum blue - as long as Toro is surfing these beautiful numbers it's all we need to know.
It seems like starting yellow and up, comparing AT2 and FL numbers is nearly impossible - the difference between them is too big.
Cheers.
 
You really can't compare the AT meter to the human meters. AT are calibrated for feline blood and human for well..humans. The protocol was written with a human meter so it's easier to follow the protocol with them IMHO. We just used the AT as a back up after the switch. My suggestion is pick one meter.....

With the 41 last night Ovi earned a reduction to 1.75u. Please reduce tonight per the protocol especially with the limited testing you are able to do during the day cycles.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
You really can't compare the AT meter to the human meters. AT are calibrated for feline blood and human for well..humans. The protocol was written with a human meter so it's easier to follow the protocol with them IMHO. We just used the AT as a back up after the switch. My suggestion is pick one meter.....

With the 41 last night Ovi earned a reduction to 1.75u. Please reduce tonight per the protocol especially with the limited testing you are able to do during the day cycles.
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We will pick the human FL after we collect more data. In our AT2 spreadsheet Toro will earn a reduction once he goes lower than 68 (equivalent of 38 on FL), that's what we followed from the beginning and seems to work fine.
Crazy how the human meters differ one from the other (ReliOn from FL for example). Unfortunately here in Canada we can't find ReliOn which seems to be the closest one to the numbers from protocols - so we don't have any other solution than to adapt the spreadsheets to which meters we find here.
 
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Doodles & Karen said:
It's certainly your choice but sorry, I don't think it's a safe one especially with the limited testing. Under 50 on a human meter earns a reduction...just my 2 cents.
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In our opinion a failed reduction is not one, not two...but a lot of steps back. We feel like we can't heal him being afraid of low numbers especially that he proved he's fine with them. We stay on target for three times on three different days under 68 on AT2(or 38 on FL), as the TR protocol calls. He didn't touch that number yet. Thank you for your concern.
 
Toro & Ovi said:
We feel like we can't heal him being afraid of low numbers especially that he proved he's fine with them.
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But you are going entire cycles without any testing between preshots. How do you know he's not going below 68 on those days? I would also mix up the test times at night a bit. Often kitties will go lower earlier than usual if they are asking for a reduction. Waiting to +4 or +5 before testing may miss the lows.
Toro & Ovi said:
Good Morning, this just info if somebody is trying to switch AT2 to Freestyle Lite:

AT2=74
FL = 41
Click to expand...
Just so you know, meter manufacturers can be 20% out, so you can't pick one individual number on at AT and say that is what it is on a FS. After collecting a lot more data, you might be able to say something about your particular AT and your particular FS. We have had people do tests and see variations between ATs. I'm sure the same is true for the FS.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
But you are going entire cycles without any testing between preshots. How do you know he's not going below 68 on those days? I would also mix up the test times at night a bit. Often kitties will go lower earlier than usual if they are asking for a reduction. Waiting to +4 or +5 before testing may miss the lows.

Just so you know, meter manufacturers can be 20% out, so you can't pick one individual number on at AT and say that is what it is on a FS. After collecting a lot more data, you might be able to say something about your particular AT and your particular FS. We have had people do tests and see variations between ATs. I'm sure the same is true for the FS.
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I agree, this is true for any meter out there, regardless of the brand. We already have 2 days of data, some of the numbers during these days coming twice - once we get minimum green and maximum blue compared twice, we shall be fine. What is in between them is for our information only, anyway.
Testing the BG numbers during days......agree, the ideal way to go....we'd like to be able to do that, unfortunately we shall rely on the numbers from our nights tests and hope everything will be good.
Thank you.
P.S We even check BG numbers with FL strips on our FT2 - but I'll leave that out for now as the results were surprising and the discussion will become a never-ending one. :-)
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
Often kitties will go lower earlier than usual if they are asking for a reduction. Waiting to +4 or +5 before testing may miss the lows
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This is an important point that Wendy makes, George would usually nadir at +5+6, but it was not unusual for him to nadir at +2+3 on a reduction earning cycle.

It's entirely possible/probable that you are missing lower numbers. I used a freestyle lite for a while, took reductions when George went below 50. He held them. I wasn't afraid of low numbers but I was respectful of them, and I tested a lot, so I knew where his usual nadir/onset were, and what patterns signalled me to pay more attention, and even then he through the occasional curve ball, respectfully with the data you have it is impossible to say what Ovi cycles may look like.

I understand that you feel a failed reduction would set him back, but consider what a symptomatic hypo would do, the consequences could be tragic, we've seen it happen.

TR, is already an aggressive method, the reduction point is 50, using a human meter, any human meter, it works at both pushing the numbers down and also keeping kitty safe, I think what we are all very concerned about is that you are pushing the limits even further, if I'm honest I would be concerned even if you were testing more, but with your limited availability and very limited data I fear you are playing with fire.
 
Gill & George said:
This is an important point that Wendy makes, George would usually nadir at +5+6, but it was not unusual for him to nadir at +2+3 on a reduction earning cycle.

It's entirely possible/probable that you are missing lower numbers. I used a freestyle lite for a while, took reductions when George went below 50. He held them. I wasn't afraid of low numbers but I was respectful of them, and I tested a lot, so I knew where his usual nadir/onset were, and what patterns signalled me to pay more attention, and even then he through the occasional curve ball, respectfully with the data you have it is impossible to say what Ovi cycles may look like.

I understand that you feel a failed reduction would set him back, but consider what a symptomatic hypo would do, the consequences could be tragic, we've seen it happen.

TR, is already an aggressive method, the reduction point is 50, using a human meter, any human meter, it works at both pushing the numbers down and also keeping kitty safe, I think what we are all very concerned about is that you are pushing the limits even further, if I'm honest I would be concerned even if you were testing more, but with your limited availability and very limited data I fear you are playing with fire.
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Toro's feeding schedule is @+1 & @+2, when he's eating almost half of the food (the rest will be consumed during the next 10 hours)- and so the chances of seeing a nadir before +4 are very low......that's the reason we test him regularly @+4 to +6, when the food influence starts to dissipate.
 
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Toro & Ovi said:
Toro's feeding schedule is @+1 & @+2, when he's eating almost half of the food (the rest will be consumed during the next 10 hours)- and so the chances of seeing a nadir before +4 are very low......that's the reason we test him regularly @+4 to +6, when the food influence starts to dissipate.
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I fed George at ps, then at +2 on days he earned a reduction, o could often predict it by what number I got at +1, i would feed at +1 and even higher carb food would not always stop him from dropping.

My point is still the same, you are assuming his BG will respond in a certain way, you don't have the data to make this assumption. Cats can and do nadir at any point in the cycle, George did so as early as +2 and as late as +13.
 
Gill & George said:
I fed George at ps, then at +2 on days he earned a reduction, o could often predict it by what number I got at +1, i would feed at +1 and even higher carb food would not always stop him from dropping.

My point is still the same, you are assuming his BG will respond in a certain way, you don't have the data to make this assumption. Cats can and do nadir at any point in the cycle, George did so as early as +2 and as late as +13.
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Toro earned a reduction last night.
AT2=61
FL = 34
We have to do assumptions as we can't test him more often.
Thank you for your input, we may move his +4 to +3 during night...we'll see how it works.
 
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Toro & Ovi said:
We have to do assumptions as we can't test him more often.
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I understand about your limited availability that's fine, I don't expect you to do more than you can do, you are doing more than so many others would be prepared to do already. Just trying to advocate a little caution, given your personal situation.

Congratulations on the reduction.
 
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