Just did a check at +3...59

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Beth & Atlas

Very Active Member
I've already taken steps to provide dry food, canned food, and corn syrup.

Half hour later we're at 70.

Humilin N with lowered dose, repeat lowered dose already...5.5 units from 6.5.

Full update in Humilin Board.
 
i'll look for you in H but post here if it's slow there ok.
 
ok, i don't see you there, and i don't see a spread sheet for you so....
i'll give you my 2 cents. jumped the gun there. a little medium carb or high carb. just a little. you shot with all 3 guns and this was not a dire need situation.
your dose is high but without spread sheet i can't see the situation.
be prepared for a big bounce up, a very high next shoot #. we usually do not react to that as you brought it on...wish i knew more about you two.
 
We're now back up at 147.

Will check back again in 15-30 minutes.

Sorry 'bout no fancy spread sheet...I don't get how to make them pretty google things.

I keep my own on excel.

Yesterday's curve is in the other forum.

Atlas has been a long hard struggle for a shelter cat. You can see his start from my tag line.

Thanks for taking the time to check in on us.
 
Blue's mom, may i ask your name?
you know those spread sheets are really not fancy or hard, altho i needed help getting mine up and i think we could get someone to walk you thru.
sounds like you rescued a diabetic shelter kitty? that' wonderful
i know your keeping your own records which is great for you but sometimes in order to get your kitty to optimal diabetic status, even remission, it's nice to have 2 or 3 folks who've been there done that to walk thru it with you.
like tonights episode...59 was not a number you needed to get the guns out if i understand you correctly. did you do all three things.
i know you may not think so,,but it is good to have help.
i'd like to help you even tho' i'm not experienced with H.
do you want me to find someone to walk you thru setting up your spread sheet on the phone?
 
I've looked at the google thing several times and just shake my head. I don't know why it seems so ...difficult.

I am Atlas's foster mom. So I didn't adopt him...I was selected due to my background with diabetic cats. He has been an exceptional case.

I reacted that way with the reading as H is a fast acting insulin and we still have several hours to go before nadir...

H is notoriously fast.

Spread from yesterday on 6.5 units.

AMps: 454 (pre-feeding)
+2 310 (post-feeding)
+4 92, retest 5 minutes later 122
+6 108
+8 225
+10 367
 
looks like yesterdays nadir was +4..curious about your backround with diabetic kitties?
and especially curious about the high dose. is atlas an acro kitty? and your his foster? bless your heart.
well i shook my head and gave up too when looking at how to set up my ss, then i got someone to talk me thru on the phone. it's amazing how differently you see the numbers as they light up different colors on the chart and begin to look like a pattern.
i could find someone maybe. would you take a call? your in ohio right?
 
That's a pretty high dose of insulin, but I can't help much without seeing all the numbers on a sheet.
Someone will need to help you set up a spreadsheet as it's the only way that others can offer help when able to see how the dose was increased, and what numbers were the results.
 
lori and tom said:
and especially curious about the high dose. is atlas an acro kitty? and your his foster? bless your heart.
Click to expand...

He was at my home for 36 hours...(see the thread at the tagline).

He then spent 5+ weeks in intensive care at a the vets own home/clinic going through surgery, being regulated etc. He went from being nearly starved to death at only 6lbs. ....

Any way he came back to foster care at 8 units BID. We checked for rebound about 6 weeks ago and have worked back up to 6.5 units. Yesterday we started to finally decrease the dry food. I realized a hypo event "could" happen, so I decreased the dose 1 unit too.

I don't think he is an acro kitty, but I do think he had been so neglected that he needed a slightly altered treatment plan until such time he was healthy enough to really tackle the BG. Until then a higher dose of insulin was necessary to back up his nutritional needs and his surgical recovery.

So we're now entering the final leg of his journey.
 
ahhh i see, your name is so familiar...were'nt you the one who posted the guardian angel poem on venita's thread? made me cry....
anyway, never answered my question about accepting a call walk thru for SS.
also that his nadir is about +4 looks like.
what do you mean final leg of his journey, is he going to a furever home soon?
 
Gayle and Shadoe said:
That's a pretty high dose of insulin, but I can't help much without seeing all the numbers on a sheet.
Someone will need to help you set up a spreadsheet as it's the only way that others can offer help when able to see how the dose was increased, and what numbers were the results.
Click to expand...

Gee, what did we do in the days before spreadsheets?

If a newbie or anyone comes here asking for help and reports their numbers, it is insensitive to suggest that no one can help them unless they put their numbers on a spreadsheet. We need more data, yes, but there is no rule here that it must be presented in spreadsheet form.

Sorry for the tangent. Blue, I understand N is fast acting, but those swings between highs and lows are huge and taking their toll. Please suggest that the shelter move to a gentler insulin for this kitty, such as PZI, Lantus or Levemir, the latter two being the most gentle. The goal in managing feline diabetes is not simply to get to double digits, but to remain there or at least below renal threshold for as long a period of the cycle as possible. The best insulins capable of that are Lantus and Levemir. His curves are going to continue to look like this on N I'm afraid. It's difficult to manage for some cats no matter how much you fiddle with the dose, rebound checks, etc.
 
omg vickie, nobody here is being 'insensitive'
before we had spread sheets we had a long list of #'s on a profile to look at.
i'm sure blue is ok with our offers of help to better read her situation as it is done with kindness and caring. don't know what your reading but it's not this thread.
 
I would have intervened on a +3 of 59 on N myself. Those faster acting insulins can get away from you, well, fast. But I would have probably just fed medium carb food and tested again in 30 mins. The important thing now is to not increase the dose again IF he is higher than normal tomorrow am.

On the old board we could put numbers in our profile so folks could quickly check them. Here, what I have seen done in to list the numbers, as you have, in a first post and update the same post (edit it) with daily numbers. I used to list my numbers on a Word doc so I could easily copy and paste them into a post.

Is he still getting dry food? That N dose is so high. It gives me a bit of caution, but yesterday's numbers looked good - good nadir, but started and ended rather high. Those 400s are typical of a dry food eater, but also typical of rebound. I think the low tonight is a good indicator to drop the dose a smidgen, maybe another .5u. And if you are phasing out dry food slowly you will have to continue to drop the dose slowly.

If he was on Lev or Lantus I would be comfortable with a 59, but not so much on N or vetsulin. I never "aimed" for lower than 80 on vetsulin because there was no wiggle room on the low end and there always seemed to be a corresponding "bounce" to higher numbers.
 
so nice to have eyes here..i know she is phasing out the dry and mixing both. at least that was my understanding. the trouble is not too many folks using this insulin so i think it's good that we on health can help as much as needed.
 
"...a spreadsheet as its the only way others can offer help...?"

That does seem rather limiting. I guess, I would just ask Gayle to "hear" the actual meaning of her words. I'm sure she didn't really mean there would be no help given without a spreadsheet.

A SS might be what we are most used to now, and it has all those pretty colors..... but it isn't necessary.

Lori, yes, not very many using N or vetsulin these days. Most of the experience here is with the L's and PZI. I find it hard to believe that vets are still using these fast-acting insulins for cats. My vet doesn't and hasn't for over 2 years (Beau got started on vetsulin just before they stopped using it. Can't imagine why they didn't suggest a switch).
 
well it is what it is so lets work with it if she'll still have us ok? galye was correct in what she said
no one here is denying help in any way at all.
hope to see you blue.
 
Vicky & Gandalf said:
Gayle and Shadoe said:
That's a pretty high dose of insulin, but I can't help much without seeing all the numbers on a sheet.
Someone will need to help you set up a spreadsheet as it's the only way that others can offer help when able to see how the dose was increased, and what numbers were the results.
Click to expand...

Gee, what did we do in the days before spreadsheets?

If a newbie or anyone comes here asking for help and reports their numbers, it is insensitive to suggest that no one can help them unless they put their numbers on a spreadsheet. We need more data, yes, but there is no rule here that it must be presented in spreadsheet form.

Sorry for the tangent. Blue, I understand N is fast acting, but those swings between highs and lows are huge and taking their toll. Please suggest that the shelter move to a gentler insulin for this kitty, such as PZI, Lantus or Levemir, the latter two being the most gentle. The goal in managing feline diabetes is not simply to get to double digits, but to remain there or at least below renal threshold for as long a period of the cycle as possible. The best insulins capable of that are Lantus and Levemir. His curves are going to continue to look like this on N I'm afraid. It's difficult to manage for some cats no matter how much you fiddle with the dose, rebound checks, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm with you, Vicki, about the spreadsheets. Sometimes a person can post with a real emergency, give all the data they have in another form, and get no advice except "You need a spreadsheet." As if there were time in an emergency situation to monkey with the computer.

My own OS doesn't support Google Spreadsheets, but a wonderful member is being my guardian angel and doing it for me. I'd suggest that anyone who criticizes another person for not using the "magical" spreadsheet form should offer to do the same!

You're right about the insulins, too. Back in the days before vets knew about feline diabetes, my poor, beautiful 16-pound Siamese Weng Chiang was put on Humulin N, once a day - and all his food for the day within a 1-hour period beginning eight hours after the shot. In other words, he ate all his food after the insulin wore off. It's just incredible that he managed to survive more than 4 years on that crazy regimen (no home testing, either) and died of something else - in fact, died of his vet's stubborn refusal to follow up a shot of Amox with oral Amox for a severe infection of the pancreas.

Thank the Lord, I now have Dr. Jen, this board, and Lantus, and people know what they are doing.

Blessings!
 
Hi Atlas's mom,

wow, you're getting great help here.
Hopefully your kitty's progress can be followed easily without a spreadsheet and that these amazing folks can guide you along.
It's gonna be ok - you're in good hands now! Lots of experience here!

oh yeah, I meant to add, but forgot to add, glad you posted over here in health - gets you more eyes.
 
Oh Boy here we go...what is wrong with you people fighting here on health. this was a perfectly nice conversation till you two came and made it stupid. i'm outta here. blue pm me if you want, i'm here for you.
edit to add: not you ronnie
 
lori and tom said:
Oh Boy here we go...what is wrong with you people fighting here on health. this was a perfectly nice conversation till you two came and made it stupid. i'm outta here. blue pm me if you want, i'm here for you.
edit to add: not you ronnie
Click to expand...

Lori, I don't see that anyone is fighting. We are pointing out that it sometimes does not help the OP with their issue if there are more posts about spreadsheets in the thread than posts about the issue at hand. There is plenty of time for spreadsheets later.

For example, no one has posted the link to the Humulin N primer. Here it is: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 27,1026927
 
ahh ya got me vickie, i was about to go to bed. the 'emergency' was handled in the first 2 or 3 posts. but like ronnie said, hopefully your kitty's progress can be followed easily without
a spreadsheet...by the amazing folks....note the sarcasm. you amazing folks go ahead and keep peeps in the dark and just take care of their 'emergencies' and do whatever it is you do. which is pick pick pick...it's really a little embarrassing that i even came back here.
who needs a ss? actually who needs to follow any of what your doing? just come back when you have a problem k? always here. sheeeesh!
 
the saddest part. blue has to read all this nonsense. shame on me for participating.
 
Hi Blue,

As you know I've been watching you and Atlas from the beginning, and it's been a tough road. I'm glad to see him as well as he is right now.

It has been mentioned in the past that Lantus or Levemir would be a more gentle insulin. You let us know that the shelter could not afford it. DCIN offered to make some available, and you said the shelter Board would have to clear that donation. Has there been any progress on that?
 
I also will step back from here as I am insensitive and know little.
I'll stick to my 2 acros, and not mention when I see something that triggers a recognition familiar to acro.

I don't know this insulin, and cannot work 'the old way before spreadsheets', so I'll leave it to the wise old-timers.

Good luck with Blue.
 
would appreciate that if people come here needing what they consider emergency help we remain sensitive to keeping the situation as calm as possible.
get the info you need, without insisting on format immediately (beyond what you need to know what's going on). we can talk about format and other things we do here on the board later once the crisis has passed.

if you have a problem with someone, please do them the courtesy of taking it off board via PM (private message).

really does sound as if the crisis is past. next time you might want to feed a teaspoon or so of canned food to see if that stops a steep drop (or a drop to a number that's too low for your comfort) at the early part of the dosing cycle. then test again in 15 minutes. (but let your cat be your guide here. if he is acting ravenous let him eat. not to fullness, tho, because if the numbers don't go up significantly or comfortably you may need to give food again and pace it out so he's not too stuffed to eat.)
 
SS, Profiles, etc

Remember ECID? (Every Cat is Different)

Well, ECID2. (Every Caretaker is Different, Too)

Not everyone has time for spreadsheets or detailed profiles. I learned over long years of medical practice that you do have to tailor treatment to capabilities/interests/personalities/time constraints. You do the best you can.

It may not be optimal, but low tech often works. Please be gentle with caretakers who are reluctant. Cajole but don't harass. Take small steps to move them toward the more intensive treatment.

Thanks,
Rebecca
Founder & Webmaster
 
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