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cocoa bear

Member Since 2013
We took our cat to the vet today because of a urinary infection. Only to find out that she has diabetes. Panic set in!!! Can we afford it? Should we have her put to sleep so she won't have to suffer? We were just so overwhelmed. And didn't know where to turn. So we went online. After reading about this group. And now we've decided that we're going to beat this thing. I'm not well off by any means. So this is going to be tough. But we love Cocoa. As she is a big part of our lives.
She'll be going on insulin. And a low carb diet.(15.3 lbs.) First I'd like to ask every and anyone about food. They're trying to sell me a 8 lb. bag of dry food for $45. And from what I read is that there are several other brands of dry food that are low carb. And a lot cheaper. Ultimately we're going to get her on a total wet food diet. But I've read that we need to wean her off of the dry. So any help you can offer would really help us in our struggle. Thank you all!!! confused_cat
 
Hey everyone,

This was originally posted in the "Announcements" forum so I copied it here so that everyone could see it and respond.

Carl
 
Thank you Carl. We're new to the "FORUM" thing. So We're still learning the how to and where to!! So thank you for moving it!!!
 
Ideally, if you can make the switch to canned food before you start insulin, that would be great.
Many times, the switch has a very positive effect on blood glucose levels. In some cases, there have been cats that were switched over, and ended up not needing insulin at all.

There is a dry food, available only online, called "Young Again Zero Carb" that has little to no carbs. It is pretty expensive, but there are members who have joined recently who are using it, and it does seem to help more than other dry foods would.

Here is a link to a chart containing nutritional info for canned foods, put together by Dr. Pierson (who is a member of the board). Her website, catinfo.org also has some great tips about converting a dry food junkie to canned food.

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Feline diabetes does not have to break the bank. The major expense is the insulin itself. Hometesting using a human glucometer can keep costs down, by avoiding repeated trips to the vet for "glucose curves". And canned food that is low carb can be bought off the shelves at the grocery store. There are also organizations like DCIN (Diabetic Cats In Need) that offer financial assistance with vet costs for those who qualify. People here are very resourceful, and have all sorts of money saving tips to offer.

This all does seem overwhelming at first, and most of us found ourselves "in your shoes" when our cats were diagnosed. I am so happy that you found this site so quickly, especially when you found yourself asking questions like this: "Should we have her put to sleep so she won't have to suffer". Diabetes is in no way a "death sentence" although unfortunately too many people think that at first. A kitty can live a normal lifespan with diabetes, and many - those that go into remission eventually - don't have to live with it forever. My kitty, Bob, was 12 when he was diagnosed. He's no longer on insulin, he's 14, and I plan on having him around for many more years to come. :smile:
 
The majority of people here feed wet food - for various health reasons including the fact that dry food is almost always higher in carbs.

See catinfo.org
The chart on the same site lists carb content for various canned cat foods: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
There's also lots of advice on transitioning to wet food.

I switched my 3 cats to wet food when Honey was dx with diabeties.
I try to keep costs down and, luckily for me, my 3 like Friskies. But it has to be the pates - the others have more carbs.
FancyFeast classics are also fine - but again, just the Classics (pates).

Good luck!
 
Welcome aboard!! I feed my diabetic cat Fancy Feast. A lot of folks on the board also feds the Fancy Feast however you have to feed only the "classic" Fancy Feast. I only buy chicken and turkey classic and I boil chicken to feed as treats. I buy a lot of the chicken when its on sale and freeze it and cook up a batch about once a week however I do not have a picky eater.
My Chicken Little will eat just about anything I give her!!
Yes we were all in your shoes at one time. Every time I'm at my vets office they are so impressed with my home testing and shooting! They always remind me that I fell to my knees swearing that I could never give a injection!! :lol:
 
Welcome to the board!

First you should be aware that any kind of infection can spike blood sugar and cause diabetes. Once the infection is clear she may go back to normal. However it would also help her blood sugar to feed a low carb diet. Many people here feed the fancy feast classic pates, friskies pates or wellness grain free canned as they are reasonably priced and low carb (less than 10% calories from carbs)

What are the plans around when to put her on insulin? assuming she has no ketones (? did the vet mention this) you could test a diet change for a week or so before starting any insulin..

Wendy
 
Hi sugar kitty Cocoa and your caregiver. Would you share your first name with us please?

I'm Deb and that tuxie pictured on the right is my sugardude Wink.

You've already gotten some great advice on the food. That change to low carb food can make a big difference. It certainly did for my foster cat Wink.

Keep asking questions. There is a lot of experience here.
 
My name is Shaleko and my better half is Michele. And Cocoa is 8 years old and 15.3 lbs. She had a urinary infection. And that was the reason we took her in to the vet. The vet told us that we caught her diabetes early.
I picked up for insulin and syringes today. And our home testing kit will be here tomorrow. So we will be able to start texting her glucose level ourselves. We took her off of dry food 2 days ago. And she is now on a low carb wet food diet now. We went with fancy feast classic. Chicken and the turkey ones. So our hopes are high that we can beat this.
I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone here for your help and support. Without groups like this. I think that we might have made the wrong decision. And that decision would have been to not fight this fight. So, "THANK YOU!!"
 
Hi Shaleko and better half Michele!

With the UTI, that can keep the BG (blood glucose) higher than normal. The low carb food can bring the BG's down. You might want to try just the food change for now, see how the UTI clears up and get some BG readings when you get your meter.

Unless there are extenuating circumstances like ketones present, you may want to consider holding off on starting the insulin for a week or so.

Here is a link to testing tips for when you get your glucometer. Most of us here use a human glucometer, because its accurate enough and the test strips cost so much less than a pet meter like an Alphatrak.

What insulin are you using?
 
Deb & Wink... She was prescribed lantus. Cocoa got her first injunction this morning. (1 unit) We didn't have the meter yet. But our vet said that it's such a small amount that Cocoa should be OK. Her diet has been solely low carb wet food now.
I'm hoping that this new diet will reduce glucose levels. Our meter literally just got here. So well start testing today.
 
Ok, thanks for letting us know that you are using Lantus. That's a good insulin, I used it myself for Wink.

Let us know if you need help with the testing. It can be scary and a challenge but so worth the effort to know how your kitty is doing.

I gave you the testing tips already, so I think the keys to testing are.

1. Stay calm, deep breathing exercises if you need to relax. Cats pick up on our stress and we need to be as calm as possible.
2. Warm the ear or rub vigorously to get the blood flowing.
3. Bright light! Helps those of us with aging eyes to see better. You may not have that issue but I sure did. ohmygod_smile
4. Have all your testing supplies out and ready to test.
5. 3 tries and you're done for this try.
6. Always give a treat. Low carb pure protein like some little bites of cooked chicken or the freeze dried treats available at pet stores.

Let us know how the testing goes, and we can try and figure out suggestions if you have a problem getting blood. The ears will learn to bleed with time. It's called angiogenesis as they grow new capillaries in the area you poke.
 
Thats great you got the meter. My Bailey had a hypo on 1/4 unit so its not correct that she cant have a hypo on 1 unit. Anyway since you are testing you should be ok!

Let us know how the testing goes. Some cats can be easier than others so dont worry if you arent successful at first. Three tries (give treats each time) then walk away and try later.

I usually recommend 4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Wendy
 
I'm sorry I haven't been a good newbie. We're still abit overwhelmed.
We just started checking today. We've been a bit nervous to start. Michele is afraid to do it. She's afraid she'll hurt her. I did it on her ear. (I'm still trying to find the sweet spot)I've seen vids where people use the spring lancet tool to poke. But I think it was easier to pull the cover off. And do it manually.
I really don't know what, "GOOD" readings would be. It's kind of confusing. Is there a chart or something that I can use as a guide line? I just checked her BG @ 11:30pm and it was 316. I think it's just abit high. But not to bad(?). I work nights, So Michele is the one giving Cocoa her shots @ 7 am & 7 pm.
Wendy, you used the term "nadir". What is that? Also thank you for your last post. That's a good base for us to follow. I'm usually sleeping during her 1st shot. But I'm going to have to have Michele wake me up so I can check her BG before she gets her insulin. At least until she watches me do it more. And feels more comfortable doing it with out me around. Michele does great with Cocoas shot. But the BG is harder for her.
Thank you everyone!!
 
If your aiming for the "sweet spot", there aren't many nerve endings there so you're not hurting kitty...most problems come out of them just not wanting anybody fooling with their ears period. To get them used to it, pick one place in your home that will be your "testing site"...put your supplies there, take the cat to this place and just rub their ears..even if it's only for a split second, they get a yummy reward (like boiled chicken or freeze dried chicken if they like it)....the more you do this, the more they associate that one place with something good and not anything bad. When you do start to actually stick, never stick more than 3 times...if you still can't get it, go ahead and give the treat, and walk away and try again later.

As funny as it sounds, most of our cats now come when they're called to get tested, or start bugging us when we're late!!

Diabetes is a scary disease, but what I've found during our time on this dance that the relationship between me and my sugarcat has grown so much closer! It's a very special relationship you'll enjoy too!!

Picture of sweet spot
pubimage



Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.

, you used the term "nadir". What is that
The nadir is the time in each cycle where Lantus is working it's BEST..the lowest BG reading of that cycle.....usually between +5 and +8...but even that can vary from cycle to cycle
 
Hi Shaleko and my better half is Michele!!....and of course your supersweet Cocoa

We'd like to get you to go ahead and add somethings into your signature line so some of our questions won't have to be repeated.

Go to the top left side of the page and find "User Control Board:"....that will get you to the "User Control Panel"....then click on the Profile tab.
Then on the left side of that page, you'll see Edit Profile
Edit Signature....once this is found, you can add YOUR NAME & CATS NAME (age?)
DATE OF DX
Where you live
Meter you are using
Type of insulin
Other health Problems
What your feeding
When you see this, if it doesn't make ,much sense, just find others to show you how. As soon as I am done, you can see the stuff I have in that signature block
 
Here are some testing tips that might help https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub
It doesnt hurt them - the ear has less nerve endings than the finger - and you wouldnt think twice about poking your childs finger if they were diabetic so tell Michelle not to worry.

The nadir is the lowest blood sugar of the day - usually occurs 5-7 hours after the shot:

Example of an active Lantus cycle:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.

It would be helpful for you to track trends, and us to advise if you set up a tracking spreadsheet - we can help with this : http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Wendy
 
So Michele is getting better. She keeps doubting herself. I just keep reassuring her that she's doing a great job. Tomorrow I'm getting kicked out of the house so they can have a day together. She's going to do a curve with Cocoa.
Wendy I notice you start at +0 then move up to +1, +2, +3...... is that because you're checking BG every hour? I thought that we'd only have to test every 2 hrs. It seems that every hour would give a more detailed test.
 
There is no need to test every hour to do a curve test. A full curve is testing every 2 hours from the pre-shot test to the next pre-shot test 12 hours later.

The "Cycle" numbers that Wendy gave you, are an example of what happens typically for a cat at each of the hour increments. It is not to be confused with a testing curve. ECID (every cat is different) though. Some cats have an earlier nadir, some later, some drop low really early. That is why we suggest some of those random tests every day, to find when YOUR cat has a nadir, when the insulin kicks in, how the food is impacting the numbers.

For example, my Wink always nadired around +4 (an early nadir).

Let us know how the curve goes today.
 
Sorry for not being on. This is our 1st attempt at a curve.
Sat 9/28/13
Cocoa ate 3/4 of a can of Fancy Feast Classic. Waited 30min. Then began testing...
5:50am BG 259
6:00 2 units on insulin
8:00 BG 235
10:00 BG 184
12:00 BG 189
2:00 BG 159
4:00 BG 166
5:50 before meal(1/2 can) BG 180
6:20 BG 188
Are these #'s still to high? The vet told Michele that Cocoas BG should not go below 200. But that doesn't seem right. What are normal BG levels for a cat?
Just a note. We changed meters. Walmart didn't carry test strips for the one we had. And they needed a prescription for them if we wanted to order them. Same with the lancets. So we got one that we could get supplies for over the counter. Switched to ReliOn MICRO BG meter.
 
If you are testing, you can keep Cocoa safe at lower numbers. And lower numbers may allow the pancreas to heal and resume workinging.

Take a look at the chart posted previously, at the numbers for a human glucometer. You'll notice at the top that < 50 mg/dL is when we may give a dose reduction for new diabetics (new = less than 1 year), and we suggect you not give insulin if the pre-shot test is under 200 mg/dL. Those numbers are for safety. Until you have test data showing how low your dose is taking the cat, shooting below 200 mg/dL may send the cat into hypoglycemia, which kills quickly. Likewise, a glucose level below 50 mg/dL is on the border of hypoglycemia, and if your cat goes below that, you'll want to intervene by giving Karo and high carb gravied food in small amounts every 30 minutes, re-testing, and repeating until back up in safe numbers. (A "Be Prepared" Note: have a few cans of high carb gravied food in the cupboard, marked HC, plus Karo/honey/glucose syrup just in case you might ever need it, along with an oral syringe, and directions to the nearest 24 hour Veterinary ER facility.)
 
:-D
Here's an up date on Cocoa. 2 units given Sunday 10/12/13 @ 7:45pm
Mon 10/13/13
8:30am BG 85
12:15pm BG97
2:45pm BG152
6:30pm BG163
11:00pm BG157

Tue 10/14/13
4:00am BG 183
9:30am BG 136
1:00pm BG 101
6:00pm BG 162
8:30pm BG 177
The best part is that Cocoa hasn't had insulin since Sunday @ 7:45pm. She's only been getting 1 injections about every 2 days. Her BG hit 222 on Sunday. That was the highest its been in quite awhile. We're keeping or fingers crossed!!!! She's been GREAT!!! Playing like her old self. I owe a lot of it to the forums. Without you guy and the support you gave us. We might of given up. THANK YOU GUYS!! And she's lost 1 1/2 pounds!!
 
She is a little high - normal cat levels are 50-130. You might want to try giving her a small dose every 12 hours to help support her pancreas and ease her into remission because any dose only lasts 12 hours, and 2 units is likely too much at these lowish blood sugar levels. Do you want to try 1 unit?

Also i think you will need to learn to shoot low - the mantra here is shoot low to stay low.... but without a spreadsheet with data its not safe because you dont know how low a number you can shoot at and ensure she wont drop too low. Otherwise I would recommend you reduce your no shoot level to 175 for now.
For example I regularly shoot my Tiggy when he is as low as 60 and I know his blood is rising, but on the other hand I wouldnt shoot Bailey under 180 because he will likely have a hypo - its a case of get the data and know your cat.

Can we help you with a spreadsheet? Also maybe read this primer: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147
Wendy
 
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