Just diagnosed with Diabetes last week

[Brandy]

Hi Everyone,

I am not even sure if I am posting in the right place! My very sweet calico Brandy was diagnosed last Tuesday with Diabetes. She will be 8 in October. Her weight has been around 14 pounds for several years. I have been trying to get her to loose weight this past year, but all of a sudden in the last few months she lost a lot more weight than was normal. We just moved 3 hours away from our old place in the spring and are in the middle of building a house. I had both of my cats to the vet in May for all their shots and they were both healthy. I had just said to my husband a couple of weeks ago that as soon as we move into our new house next month, that I wanted to find a new vet and get Brandy checked over because of her weight loss. Other than the weight loss, she was her normal self. A week ago Monday I went out of town for 4 days. The first night I was gone, my husband came home to a small puddle of blood in front of the litter box and Brandy had blood in her urine. Of course he went hysterical and called me, so I was surfing my phone to find a vet near our new place. I called and got the emergency number. I phoned it even though we were not current patients and he agreed to see my car. She was kept overnight and after some tests, we got the devastating news. She went on 1.5 units of insulin last Thursday and I stopped feeding dry food and went to all canned food. I used to give both cats wet food in the morning and about 1/2 cup of dry for the rest of the day. I am so stressed out right now, my day is consumed with getting her to eat. I suck at giving the injection, my poor baby freaks every time. I actually stuck myself with an empty needle tonight to see why she freaks. After sticking myself about 7 times, I realized that if I angle the needle more I could not feel it. I am so confused as to how much to feed both of my cats. The vet sold me a case of Royal Canin low calorie food and told me to feed her 2-3 cans a day....like omg! I can barely get her to eat 1 1/2 cabs a day. She hides behind the sofa, it is breaking my heart to see her like this. I have never been as close to a cat as I am to her, I love her so much and just want her to feel better and I blame myself for her becoming diabetic. I am in Huntsville, Ontario. I would love some opinions as to the amount of food that seems normal as well as how many times a day should I feed my cats. Getting Brandy to eat has always been a chore because she is very finicky and likes to be catered to. She wants me to keep moving the bowl for her to different locations, my husband thinks I have lost it....lol I have always really spoiled my cats, but now it takes me almost an hour to get her to eat. This whole situation is consuming my life!

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

First of all, breathe!!! You've come to the right place!!

It's good that you're working on transitioning her to canned food, but the Royal Canin is expensive and looks like it might be higher in carbs than we'd like to see them eating. What a lot of us feed is plain Fancy Feast Classics (I think they're called "Pate's" in Canada), 9 Lives and Friskies!! As long as they're the pate versions, they're going to be less than 10% carbs which is what we want. If you look at the ingredients, you'll see that there's nothing fancy or "therapeutic" about the Royal Canin either and the ingredients in other foods are comparable (and sometimes better!) I see the "weight control" food has rice flour as the 3rd ingredient! Rice is a carbohydrate! It also looks like it's main protein is pork...a lot of cats may eat it at first, but they tire of it quickly and with the options you have in other foods, you can offer some variety!

However, you don't want to lower the carbs in the food unless you're testing first! Lowering the carbs can drop their blood glucose up 100-200 points, so it's important that you do it safely. (in your numbers, that's a drop of 5.5 to 11 points!) Most of us here are from the US and we have a different scale, but it's easy to convert...just divide our numbers by 18 and you have your numbers!

What insulin are you using? The only really good ones for cats are Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc, but lucky for you, living in Canada you can buy insulin over the counter! (except ProZinc which is veterinary only)

You'll want to learn how to home test too (and yes, it sounds scary, but it really isn't and there's no better way to know what's going on inside her body than to test!) It's also the only way to keep her safe. Human diabetics don't ever give insulin without knowing their blood glucose first, and it's the same with our sugarcats!

We have quite a few members in Canada that can lead you in the right direction on blood glucose meters. In the US, we use the Relion brand from WalMart a lot because it's cheap and the strips are affordable, but in Canada, you're limited on which meters are available

Don't want to overwhelm you at first, but trust me, you're in the BEST place you never wanted to be here and we've all been where you are! Keep asking questions and keep posting and you'll get all kinds of help! The people here are very generous with their time and experience!

 

[BJM]

Welcome to FDMB.
It is a shock to get the diagnosis for most folks and certainly requires some changes to the routines you had.
You can manage this, though, with patience and persistence.

 

[Brashworks]

Hi Brandy's Mom, I'm Melanie and welcome from another Canadian! You have come to the right place.

After sticking myself about 7 times, I realized that if I angle the needle more I could not feel it.

I have to say, oh my, what dedication you have! That is truly above and beyond.

I have some questions for you, though. First, and please know I am not a vet, but I'm curious if they found a reason for the blood in Brandy's urine. I am not aware (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) of blood in the urine being a symptom of diabetes. Drinking lots (PD) and peeing lots (PU) plus weight loss and a funny gait were Genghis' symptoms.

I'm also curious why the vet would prescribe a low-calorie food if Brandy is underweight. Was it perhaps low-carb food? It was my experience that a vet-prescribed food was not necessary to helping manage diabetes (and way too expensive!). I will say that if you are drastically changing her diet (what was she eating before?) it is VERY important to monitor her blood sugar at home as Chris has already mentioned. Please note that I changed Genghis from a dry free fed diet of 17% carbs with a half a can of wet to an all wet diet under 10% carbs and the insulin dose first prescribed was way too high. The diet plays a huge role in diabetes - had I not found this place and been testing her sugars, I'm sure she would have had to go to the emergency. I ended up having to halve her dose inside a week, so be aware.

I am feeding the Fancy Feast Pates - there are several that are good choices and right now Petsmart and Walmart have them on for about 60 cents a 3.5 oz can. Avoid anything with "gravy" in the title - there is Turkey & Giblets in the olive coloured can, Chicken Feast in the dark pink can, and Tender Liver and Chicken in the gold-yellow coloured can. I have also bought some of the seafood varieties but only feed very occasionally. Stick to the Pates and check out the food link Chris gave you. If you have a case of the Royal Canin, it's possible you can return it telling the vet Brandy won't eat it. As a tip, my Genghis (whom I used to call FattyCat and would eat anything) seemed to take forever to eat the canned, even when I broke it up with a fork for her. I got a great tip here which was to add hot water (a tablespoon or more) to the food and mix it up into a slurry. That does a few things - makes it "mouse temperature" and also releases more smell (more enticing!) and she laps it all up in one brief sitting.

The way you feed Brandy will depend on how she does. Some folks are strictly twice a day, at or slightly before shot time but try for no food from 2 hours before you take her blood sugar reading so the food doesn't influence the BG or "blood glucose." I myself feed Genghis several times a day (morning, noonish, at her afternoon shot time and before bed - she was underweight so I feed her as much as she will eat - typically 3 or so cans a day broken up over the day.

I'm not sure how progressive your vet is - I was actually prescribed Caninsulin at first, which I did try to make work but I have had incredible results with Lantus. You can get it over the counter but if you were prescribed Caninsulin you will need to change the syringes the vet gave you. Let us know what insulin and what dosage if you can.

Meters - the strips are insanely expensive but I just ordered some for cheaper than I can get in any store from Diabetes Express. The shipping was fast and it came with a free meter! I started with the One-Touch Ultra but switched to the Bayer Contour Next (not the EZ) and found I needed substantially less blood to test and overall a much nicer experience. Getting the readings at first was... an adventure, but trust me, it does get easier.

I don't want this to become a novel but the last thing I will say is to echo Chris: BREATHE. I'm sure your beautiful Brandy is well-attuned to your mood. I know how nerve-wracking this whole thing can be, but take deep breaths before injecting and testing to calm yourself and she will be calmer too!

 

[Brandy]

Thanks everyone for your support, at least I do not feel alone anymore. Misery loves company....lol First off, someone tell me where in Canada you can buy insulin without a prescription? Brandy was prescribed 1.5 units of Lantus twice a day. The vet gave me 4 needles and I bought a box of 100 at Shoppers Drug Mart. The insulin was $89 and the needles were $142. The needles that I bought are way smaller than the ones the vet gave me. The needle is not only finer but it is half the length which is way better, it also has the marking for the half unit on it, whereas the needles from the vet you had to eye ball the half unit. When I told my husband that I practiced on myself last night, he looked at me like I needed to be sent away with the men in white...lol I told him t hat I actually stuck myself in my stomach and did it on an angle that I could not even feel it. However, this morning when I tried to do the same thing on Brandy, it seemed to work well when the needle went in but as soon as I injected the insulin she jumped. My husband has given her 2 shots so far and when he does it she seems much happier. He told me I need to do it quicker,but when I tried that, quicker turned out to be too much force and I felt so guilty. Brandy has been close to 15 pounds and I was supposed to try and get her to loose weight the last couple years. I started measuring the amount of dry I was giving her the last year and it did help a bit. Another issue we discovered about 9 months ago was that she had lumps on her back. The vet did an xray and ultrasound and she said they were fatty tissue and that some cats are prone to getting it. It was deep in her muscle so they could not remove it. With her loosing weight, I have noticed that they have gotten smaller.
I was feeding both of my cats a quarter can of wet food in the morning (friskies pate foods) and then I was leaving a quarter cup of dry for each of the cats. However sometimes if they ate all the dry by the late afternoon/early evening, they would meow at me until I put a bit more in the bowl. They were used to there always being something to eat. When I found out she was diabetic, I took the dry food away cold turkey. I gave them their normal breakfast but increased the amount to about 1/3 of a can. I give them another third in the afternoon and the rest of the can in the evening before I give Brandy her insulin. I am a later sleeper so the cats are on my schedule, breakfast for them is between 11 and noon every day...lol So I have been giving them their lunch around 4:30 or 5 and then dinner around 10:30 at night. Brandy gets her second insulin after she is finished eating which is around 10:50. I am going to try and get up earlier and get the on a different schedule, but I have had a habbit the last 8 months of so of staying up late at night playing on my computer and then sleeping late, so the cats are used to my schedule. My friend has had multiple cats for years and she told me that she feeds them 1/2 can in the morning and 1/2 can at night. Her cats are very healthy and not overweight but not skinny either. I am going to keep the rest of the food I got from the vet, it wasn't a full case anyhow and Brandy seems to really like it. It has reduced calories. He wanted me to put her on the Royal Canin food for diabetic cats, the can is 1/2 the size and the same price as the larger can. I'm glad he didn't have any in when we were there. I am going to mix the expensive food with the normal friskies food that she is used to eating until it is gone and then just keep feeding her the normal friskies that she likes. I really don't think she needs the reduced calories since she is not getting the carbs anymore from the dry food. When she went to the vets for her emergency appointment a week ago Monday night, she weighed 13.6 pounds. We took her to the vet this past Tuesday she was down to 12.7 pounds. I think her normal weight should be around 11 pounds. I have noticed a huge difference in her face, as well as her backside. She used to be much larger. My friends used to tease me and call her Tubby, but I honestly didn't think she looked that huge. But when I look at pictures of her from a few years ago, she was a big girl! I have not tested her blood yet, I have to get a meter. The strange thing is, I have 3 of them in our storage locker along with a bunch of test strips. All of our stuff is in a storage locker until our house is ready, hopefully in another 2-3 weeks. Brandy had to go to the vet on Tuesday and spend the day there. The vet is going to test her blood every hour. I will talk to the vet and ask him his opinion on what meter I should get. Damn I wish I knew where they were in my storage locker. The meters are cheap, usually free when you buy the test strips, however the test strips are almost 100 bucks! My husband is diabetic but he is on metformin. His doctor told him he didn't have to check his blood sugar which I think is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard of. He also doesn't eat right either, but that is another story.
As far as Brandy bleeding, anyones guess is as good as mine as to what it was????? This Monday it will be 2 weeks since it happened. When Mark got her to the vet that Monday night she was no longer bleeding and has not had one drop since. I think it was some devine intervention or something because if it had not of happened, we would not have found out that she is diabetic. Mark told me on the phone that the vet said it was probably a bladder infection, but when he picked her up the next day he didn't give her any antibiotics or anything. Then when we both took her to the vets this past Tuesday, I asked him myself why he thought she had blood in her urine and he said it was because of her weight????? Like what???? I have never heard of anything like that happening to a cat because it was overweight. Plus, she is 4 pounds lighter than she was a year ago, so I honestly think he doesn't know what it was. Whatever it was, thank god it stopped.
Tonight when I fed them, I was sitting on the floor next to Brandy. She needs some coaxing to eat and always has, but before it was because she was not starving because she had dry food to munch on. I have noticed that she eats her meat better now. I have never given my cats cold food out of the fridge. If I open a new can it is the perfect temp. but if it is in the fridge, I put both bowls in the microwave for about 12 seconds and then give it a good stir and it is luke warm. Whiskey is not fussy but Brandy is very fussy. She only likes it when the food is fluffed up in a neat little pile. Once the food is licked flat onto the bottom of the bowl, she looks at me with this weird look on her face. I am sure if she could talk she would say "ok, you may fluff it up now" So of course I fluff it up....lol Sometimes this happens about 4 times during her meal. Tonight when I fed her, she was really funny. I put her food down on the floor and sat next to her. I was patting her really gentle and telling her she was a good girl for eating her dinner. About 20 times during her dinner, she stopped eating, walked over to me and rubbed her wet cat food face right across my nose. She was purring her head off. Then she would go back to eating for a few minutes and then walk in a circle over to me and do the same thing. It's like she was thanking me for taking such good care of her. It was so cute because this is the first time in about 2 weeks that she seemed happy. She has been hiding under the sofa a lot, but this morning she surprised me by jumping on the bed and sleeping with Whiskey and I for a couple of hours. Mark gets up way earlier than I do, so they both like it when they can hog the bed....lol Actually right now, both of them are in bed with Mark (on my side of course) but I preheat my bed at night, I turn on my mattress heater to high until I get into bed. I cant believe how warm their stomachs get from laying on top of the comforter. They love it in the winter time. Anyhow, since I spend most of my day with the cats, I don't really notice a big difference in Brandys behavioiur. Mark spends the entire day working on our house, and when he comes back around dinner time he said he has noticed a big differebce in Brandys behavior the last 2 days. He said he can tell she is feeling better. I just want her back to the happy cat she was, with her and Whiskey running up and down the hall after breakfast acting like a couple of little kids. That was their morning ritual, then t hey would give each other a few smacks upside the head and pounce on each other. When they were finished, they come and sit in front of the patio door and watch their chipmunk friends on the deck. I put peanuts out every morning and the chipmunks are very friendly. The blue jays up here are huge and they will also land on the deck. The 2 cats watch out the patio door just quivering watching the wildlife. I am waiting for that to happen again, then I will know that Brandy is back to her old self.

Well, sorry for writing a novel but I didn't want to forget anything. I am really curious as to what her blood sugar will be on Tuesday. It was 19.5, so I am hoping it comes down with getting rid of the dry food. I really want to be able to decrease her dose and I am really hoping that her diabetes can be controlled with diet and no insulin. I know that might be withfull thinking, but not unheard off.
Thank you so much everyone, I dont feel alone anymore and I know if I am having a hard day or something is not working out, that I have people who truly care to talk to.
Thanks again everyone!
Janis

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

You can buy Lantus at any human pharmacy in Canada...you just have to ask for it! Also, you're going to be better off getting the Lantus Solostar pens because most of our kitties end up on less than 2 units every 12 hours, and a vial is 1000 units....you end up throwing most of it away because the insulin starts to poop out. The pens are like "mini-vials" that hold 300 units each and a box of 5 is going to last you until the expiration date on the box...usually about 2 years. You still use insulin syringes on the pens (not the special needles they say you have to use!) and just pull the cap off the pen and there's a rubber stopper just like a vial. I don't know how much it costs for Canadians, but I know it's a lot cheaper than it is here in the states!! Here, a box of 5 pens runs $460+!! That's why a lot of us are buying our insulin from Canadian pharmacies where we can get it for about $150. From what I understand, it's even cheaper for you that live there!

I totally understand your "schedule" because that's where we started too!! I've always been a "night person" so when China got the diagnosis, I just said "no problem, I'll shoot at 11/11 and then I don't have to get up early and I'm always up past midnight anyway so no problem!!"

That was until I spent a few nights up all night long because China went too low....those hours between 1-6 go really slow when you're waiting for the next test and worrying in between!!

So I sucked it up and switched over to a 6/6 schedule...yes, 6 AM!!! Do people really get up at that hour?? But it has worked out better than I could have hoped because I can almost always go back to sleep in the morning if I want to, and by shooting at 6pm at night, I'm still up until at least midnight (usually later) so by the time I actually go to sleep, China's on the last half of the cycle and I know I can sleep without worrying about where her blood glucose is going to go. It also means if I have to go someplace (like take my mom to a doctor appointment) I can get a test at +2 (2 hours after the shot) which lets me know if she's going to stay safe while I'm gone or if I need to make sure to leave extra food down for her so she can eat if her glucose drops too low

Having your vet do your testing not only costs you more than home testing, but it's also not reliable at all....most cats will react to stress by having their blood glucose go up....up to 200 points higher! It's much more reliable to test at home when your cat isn't stressed out and you'll get the numbers she's REALLY at.

Lantus dosing is based on how LOW it takes them, not the high numbers, so knowing how low the dose is taking her is the only safe way to give insulin. It's important to know where you're starting too, so getting a test before shooting is very important

SO funny on having to "fluff up" her food! I thought China was the only cat in creation that required her food to be "fluffed"!!!! Open a cat, dump it in the bowl and leave?? OH NO!!! I have to sit there for about the same 20 minutes and keep "fluffing"!

 

[BJM]

We strongly encourage home blood glucose monitoring with an inexpensive human glucometer as the pet ones will break your budget! This may save you the cost of going to the vet for curves and done regularly, removes the need for a fructosamine test.

 

[Brandy]

Just wanted to give everyone a bit of an update. Today was the first day in almost 2 weeks that Brandy wanted to play. She actually started throwing her toys around in the living room and then ran down the hall and jumped up on the back of the sofa. This is the most energy I have seen her have since prior to being diagnosed with diabetes. She is also extremely lovey dovey with me. She always was really loving with me, but lately she has been extra snuggly. I honestly think she knows that I am trying to make her feel better. I am still worried about the amount I am feeding her. The food that the vet sold me, the Royal Canin low calorie food, I honestly do not think that she needs reduced calories. With losing several pounds in the last couple of months, I would rather have her eating just canned food and seeing if that is enough to keep her weight either the same or maybe loose 1 more pound. I am worried about her not getting enough calories, so I have decided to keep her on the friskies pate foods which is what she has been used to eating. She does like the taste of the vet food, so I have been mixing it in with her normal canned food until the cans are gone. I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who not only has multiple cats but she also used to foster cats. I asked her how much she feeds her cats who are the same weight as Brandy. She said she gives them 1/2 can in the morning and 1/2 can at night. I am talking about the small cans that are (I think) 156 grams. I don't think Brandy should only be fed twice a day right now so I have been splitting her meals up into 4 different times during the day. I would rather feed my girls 3 times a day, does anyone have an opinion on which is better for a diabetic cat? I will be glad once Tuesday is over so I will know how her blood is through out the day. I realize that her blood might be messed up with being at the vets and I am definately going to get a meter. The one good thing is, at least I know how to use one because my husband is diabetic.

I am totally amazed and my cats water consumption. There was always water on the floor, and Brandy would play in the water with her paws and then go in the liter box. It was like someone walking from the beach in their wet feet and walking across my floor. I have seen Brandy drink once out of the water bowl in the last 3 days and I have not seen Whiskey drink at all. They might drink a bit when I am not looking,but it doesn't look like it. The litter box is another miracle! I clean it every day and the bag is usually pretty heavy. Especially when Brandy was drinking so much water, she was peeing like crazy and there were numerous very large clumps of pee. The bag was so heavy once I cleaned it that I couldn't believe it. When I cleaned it the last several days I have noticed that there is not much in it at all, and there isn't the huge clumps of pee from Brandy anymore.
I am really curious as to what her sugar is right now.

I called in script to the pharmacy today and I asked them about the insulin. I was amazed, you guys were right, you don't need a script for insulin in Canada. They didn't bother to tell me that when I took the script in though, guess they wanted to collect their $12 dispensing fee. She told me that if I got the insulin without the scipt that my government trillium plan would not cover it. I said "well I didn't think the government was going to cover my cats medication anyhow"....lol I'm glad I know that now, so much easier and it saves me money as well.
I really need some opinions on the amount of food to feed. She is between 12 and 13 pounds, I will know exactly how much on Tuesday.
I am so thankful that my baby is feeling better and not hiding behind the sofa anymore. She has been sleeping either in her own bed or on my bed. She has been getting smothered in kisses the last few days and she made sure my face was good and wet today

 

[BJM]

There is an entire section on feline obesity and feeding amounts at Cat Info.
If you get a digital baby scale, you can weigh her and then evaluate her body condition using this scoring chart. If she needs to gain weight, you feed a bit more; if she needs to lose, you feed a bit less (like 1-2 teaspoons.