Just Diagnosed-Need dose info.

[MachoZeCat]

Hi guys thanks for letting me join. My cat, Macho, (neutered 6 years old) was diagnosed today. Glucose over 300. Vet prescribed Glycobalance food and Vetsulin at 3 units once a day. Facebook people are telling me that is WRONG so I am feeling overwhelmed. I have been working my guy slowly over to wet food vs. dry, still working on that. Vet said we will do insulin once a day and retest blood Friday AM to see if its the correct dose. Don't worry- I now know NOT to give 3 units.

I want to call tomorrow and request Lantus. What dose should he actually start on? Are there any cats out there who are started once a day vs. twice? ...I know a lot of people do home curves and are recommending this to me but I am just not sure it will be possible to handle him that way to get it done. I HAVE to assume there are some people out there who choose not to do home testing and let the vet check levels, etc. If I choose not to do home testing, at what dose do I start and after 3 days should vet test glucose again?

Vet wants to test Friday at 8am only once, not a curve throughout the day- however I can have him do the whole day testing at his clinic if this is recommended. Once we find an insulin level that works, how often should he be tested to make sure we are still good?

Please do not respond convincing me how bad dry food is, that the ONLY way to successfully manage diabetes is home testing... I know lots of people do not home test and right now I am feeling too overwhelmed. I need realistic doses and a plan for what I can do right now. (I have not decided I will not home test, just do not want to be told I HAVE to) Thanks.

EDIT: He has had a few UTIs since December, with crystals at least once. I got him from a friend in December who was not taking care of him, so since the day I got him it seems we have been fighting recurring UTI. Bladder is thick - but urinalyses show no bacteria. Blood was present once. Protein has been high each urinalysis until this most recent one, and WBC was high once. Saturday he had a urinalysis and it indicated NO UTI, Could the glucose levels be wrong and he is not diabetic? How do I find out?

Anne

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Vetsulin at 3 units once a day.

Too high for a starting dose and cats need twice a day dosing because they metabolize insulin quickly. Also Vetsulin can have a relatively short duration of only 8 - 10 hours.

I want to call tomorrow and request Lantus. What dose should he actually start on?

Lantus is a good insulin for cats. One unit twice a day is a good starting dose.

Vet wants to test Friday at 8am only once, not a curve throughout the day-

That wouldn't yield much useful info. If he ate only a short time before the BG might be elevated because of food. If he's stressed at the vet's BG could be elevated because of that. An 8 AM test won't tell you how low he goes on the dose. That usually happens 4 to 6 hours after Vetsulin is injected. A full curve would give a lot more info but the numbers might be inflated because of stress caused by being at the clinic.

right now I am feeling too overwhelmed.

We all understand. Read more here and learn. Ask any/all questions you have any time.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I want to call tomorrow and request Lantus. What dose should he actually start on? Are there any cats out there who are started once a day vs. twice?

At the very bottom of THIS THREAD is a link to the only published protocol using Lantus, but we actually have two dosing methods we use here.....the Tight Regulation Protocol (in the link) and the Start Low, Go Slow method

Both start at .5 to 1 unit twice a day....Cats metabolize insulin faster than people do, so it needs to be given twice a day. Yes, we have had people only give it once, but they end up going to twice when the insulin wears off long before the next shot time.

Please do not respond convincing me how bad dry food is, that the ONLY way to successfully manage diabetes is home testing... I know lots of people do not home test and right now I am feeling too overwhelmed. I need realistic doses and a plan for what I can do right now. (I have not decided I will not home test, just do not want to be told I HAVE to)

We have heard from so many people that "their cat will never let me do that"!!.....pretty much 100% of the time, with a little positive reinforcement, the cats learn to actually come when it's time to test! Of course we can't force you to move faster than you're comfortable moving, but we've seen too many stories where people didn't home test and it ended very badly. I know you're in the FD group on Facebook....You might want to read Baxter's Story to understand why we're so adamant about it

If you still choose not to home test, we'll still be here to help you any way we can. There are some secondary monitoring tools you can use to help out in the meantime, but they're not anywhere near as accurate as home testing

We totally understand how overwhelming it is when you just got the diagnosis and not only is your vet telling you one thing, but a bunch of crazy cat ladies on the internet are telling you something else, but I can honestly say that these crazy internet cat ladies have saved many lives. They live and breathe feline diabetes so they've already made the mistakes and know what works and what doesn't.

One of the biggest problems with only getting tests at the vet (besides the fact that you don't know how your cat is responding any other time) is that your cat is under stress at the vets office.....Just like a human's blood pressure is higher at the doctors, our cats blood glucose is higher when they're under stress at the vets....Up to 200 points higher! The vet see's those high numbers, thinks you need to give more insulin and you go home and follow his directions. Your cat relaxes once home and you've got the recipe for a tragedy

Hang in there! We will do all we can to help while you're wrapping your head around all the information we're throwing at you!!

 

[MachoZeCat]

Too high for a starting dose and cats need twice a day dosing because they metabolize insulin quickly. Also Vetsulin can have a relatively short duration of only 8 - 10 hours.


Lantus is a good insulin for cats. One unit twice a day is a good starting dose.


That wouldn't yield much useful info. If he ate only a short time before the BG might be elevated because of food. If he's stressed at the vet's BG could be elevated because of that. An 8 AM test won't tell you how low he goes on the dose. That usually happens 4 to 6 hours after Vetsulin is injected. A full curve would give a lot more info but the numbers might be inflated because of stress caused by being at the clinic.


We all understand. Read more here and learn. Ask any/all questions you have any time.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[MachoZeCat]

Too high for a starting dose and cats need twice a day dosing because they metabolize insulin quickly. Also Vetsulin can have a relatively short duration of only 8 - 10 hours.


Lantus is a good insulin for cats. One unit twice a day is a good starting dose.


That wouldn't yield much useful info. If he ate only a short time before the BG might be elevated because of food. If he's stressed at the vet's BG could be elevated because of that. An 8 AM test won't tell you how low he goes on the dose. That usually happens 4 to 6 hours after Vetsulin is injected. A full curve would give a lot more info but the numbers might be inflated because of stress caused by being at the clinic.


We all understand. Read more here and learn. Ask any/all questions you have any time.

Thanks!

 

[MachoZeCat]

So I decided to try Vetsulin once a day as suggested by the vet. He recommended 3 units but I have given 2 units this AM. I called and told them I read that Vetsulin is recommended at 1-2 units and 3 is too high. Tech on the phone told me "well he's (the vet) been doing this a long time and some animals get a lot more than that" I replied "you mean dogs, right?" and he said "some cats are on 9 units".... I said ok thanks bye. I am still only going to give 2 units. He gets his glucose checked Friday AM, and at that time I will tell the vet in person I have only given 2 units (not 3). He still recommended doing once a day not twice. If his numbers are not good Friday I can insist on twice a day, if needed. As of now I do not want to "challenge" the vet too much- if he does not agree with what I tell him, I may go to a specialist instead.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

So I decided to try Vetsulin once a day as suggested by the vet. He recommended 3 units but I have given 2 units this AM. I called and told them I read that Vetsulin is recommended at 1-2 units and 3 is too high. Tech on the phone told me "well he's (the vet) been doing this a long time and some animals get a lot more than that" I replied "you mean dogs, right?" and he said "some cats are on 9 units".... I said ok thanks bye. I am still only going to give 2 units. He gets his glucose checked Friday AM, and at that time I will tell the vet in person I have only given 2 units (not 3). He still recommended doing once a day not twice. If his numbers are not good Friday I can insist on twice a day, if needed. As of now I do not want to "challenge" the vet too much- if he does not agree with what I tell him, I may go to a specialist instead.

Many people here have had interactions with vets that have been less than helpful. We understand. Maybe this would help - it's the Vetsulin manufacturer's info:
http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_DosingOverview.aspx

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

So I decided to try Vetsulin once a day as suggested by the vet. He recommended 3 units but I have given 2 units this AM. I called and told them I read that Vetsulin is recommended at 1-2 units and 3 is too high. Tech on the phone told me "well he's (the vet) been doing this a long time and some animals get a lot more than that" I replied "you mean dogs, right?" and he said "some cats are on 9 units".... I said ok thanks bye. I am still only going to give 2 units. He gets his glucose checked Friday AM, and at that time I will tell the vet in person I have only given 2 units (not 3). He still recommended doing once a day not twice. If his numbers are not good Friday I can insist on twice a day, if needed. As of now I do not want to "challenge" the vet too much- if he does not agree with what I tell him, I may go to a specialist instead.

Your vet needs to read up on Vetsulin. This is from the manufacturer's site:

"For cats, the initial recommended dose of Vetsulin® (porcine insulin zinc suspension) is 1 to 2 IU per injection. Cats should be started on twice-daily injections of Vetsulin at 12-hour intervals. Note that in cats, Vetsulin dosing is calculated on a per animal basis; in contrast, initial dosing for dogs is based on body weight."

http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_DosingOverview.aspx


ETA. Oh I see Kris has already given you the link. The part I printed out should definitely be shown to the vet.

 

[MachoZeCat]

Your vet needs to read up on Vetsulin. This is from the manufacturer's site:

"For cats, the initial recommended dose of Vetsulin® (porcine insulin zinc suspension) is 1 to 2 IU per injection. Cats should be started on twice-daily injections of Vetsulin at 12-hour intervals. Note that in cats, Vetsulin dosing is calculated on a per animal basis; in contrast, initial dosing for dogs is based on body weight."

http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_DosingOverview.aspx


ETA. Oh I see Kris has already given you the link. The part I printed out should definitely be shown to the vet.

Yeah, Like I said I called this morning and told him to dose is too high and he did not agree- but I only gave 2 units and not 3.

 

[MachoZeCat]

Many people here have had interactions with vets that have been less than helpful. We understand. Maybe this would help - it's the Vetsulin manufacturer's info:
http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_DosingOverview.aspx

That is why maybe I should find a specialist. I am taking yalls advice but do not want to go too far against what the vet advises. And if this vet is giving wrong info I feel I should find one with correct info

 

[Djamila]

I live in a big city, so have lots of vets from which to choose, but I've found the vet knowledge about diabetes varies widely, as does their attitude about owners who want to take an active role in managing their cat's condition. It may just be a matter of finding a different vet if paying for a specialist is too expensive. I don't know if that's an option where you live, but thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[MachoZeCat]

I live in a big city, so have lots of vets from which to choose, but I've found the vet knowledge about diabetes varies widely, as does their attitude about owners who want to take an active role in managing their cat's condition. It may just be a matter of finding a different vet if paying for a specialist is too expensive. I don't know if that's an option where you live, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Not to get into a long story but I've been to three different vets in my area with this cat just to get a diagnoses and also 3 vets for my dog to finally get a diagnoses of hypothyroidism with him. It feels like the last 2+ months all I have done is shuffle my animals around from one vet to another because they are misdiagnosing or mis treating my animals. Last week I took my hypothyroid dog from the vet who diagnosed but gave wrong medication doses to a specialist just to get it right. The initial visit is more expensive but they typically work with you via phone vs. having to come in all the time, and if it gets me the right treatment and peace of mind it is worth it to me.

I have a lot of respect for vets but its crazy to me how many bad experiences I have had lately. Like it is unacceptable to treat my cat for a UTI over 3 times without recommending a urine culture and only doing it after I request one.