Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little sweetie!

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1way2rock

1way2rock

Member Since 2014
Hello all!

My 15 year old pal has just been diagnosed with diabetes! Needless to say, today has been a long stressful day!

Looking through the forum and happy to see that we're not alone ... Although it would be nicer if we all didn't have to deal with this altogether!!!

Anyway, I'm pretty concerned with the journey I'm about to embark on, especially since I already have one kitty (Rocky) with a heart and bladder problem and now Johnny with diabetes.

So many questions yet I don't know what to ask right now however the forum seems to have lots of good info.

Johnny is being kept at the vet tonight in anticipation of a full day of testing and/or monitoring tomorrow.

Fingers crossed and hoping for a miracle!

Frank
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Hi Frank and welcome to you and Johnny. There is lots of knowledge here, I hope we'll be able to help you and your sweet pal. Keep reading and asking questions. We love to help. There are three keys to managing feline diabetes; feeding low carb wet food or raw, a good insulin for cats (Lantus, Levemir, or Prozinc/PZI), and monitoring your cat's blood sugar at home.

Take a look at http://www.catinfo.org for a description of feline nutrition. There is also a food chart there listing the nutritional breakdown of most commercial cat foods. You'll want to feed something with a carb% less than 10%. Common brands served here include Wellness grain free, Fancy Feast pates and Friskies pates, so cost should be pretty reasonable. What is Johny eating now? There have been some cats that have gone into remission just from a switch to wet food alone so miracles do happen.

Monitoring Frank's blood sugar is something you can do at home with a human glucometer. Most of us don't leave our cats at the vet for that. Stress of being at the vet can also greatly increase the cat's blood sugar, giving inflated readings which are not appropriate for determining how much insulin a cat should be dosed at. Last year my non-diabetic cat tested at 207 at the vet clinic, then 53 when I tested him at home. This second kitty has urinary issues too, and once I got over the learning curve in diabetes, I find it easier to deal with.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Thank you Wendy and Neko!

I'll be doing a lot of research on this for certain however it's all happening so fast so Johnny is already at the vet now and I'll have no choice but to follow their advice ... At least initially.

Johnny is eating strictly dry food as he has never really liked canned food although I guess it's now time to try it again if this is something that can actually make a difference. His current food is Royal Canin #40 (light indoor) and the vet has already mentioned that it would probably be changed to Hill's Prescription Diet® w/d® Feline (low fat glucose management).

Unless I've misunderstood the numbers my vet initially mentioned for yesterday's tests, it appears Johnny's sugar level is 25 as opposed to the expected level of 3 (approx). At first mention it seemed alarming as the reading is about 8 times the expected amount. You say your Neko tested at 207 and then at 53... Do these numbers indicate how complicated things will be to treat a cat or and/or the severity of their situation e they numbers that simply vary from cat to cat and are easily managed with insulin and nutrition? In other words while 25 is still considered high, should I take comfort in the fact that it's lower than what you've seen (considering/assuming Neko's diabetes is under control now) or am I just mistakenly looking for something to make me feel better?

Thank you once again!

Frank
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

If you need a low carb dry, over the counter Evo Cat & Kitten will work; no need to do the W/D which actually has a high carb content ... not something you want to feed an obligate carnivore!

We suggest using an inexpensive human glucometer with pet-specific reference numbers. One many of us use is the WalMart Relion Confirm, or Confirm Micro, which is also sold at American Diabetes Wholesale as as the Arkray USA Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini (same manufacturer - Arkray USA). It uses a tiny blood droplet and the cost is significantly lower for test strips (like $0.36 each).

Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
Examples of using the chart:

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Frank - I suspect by the numbers that you aren't in the US, neither am I. But this board was started by an American and the majority of members are from there so we use their measurements systems as the common language. You basically take the mmol/L system used by the rest of the world, multiplied by 18. So the numbers I was giving you from my non diabetic cat were 3 (53) at home and 11.5 (207) at the vet's office due to stress. My diabetic cat Neko started out testing in the 20's (and higher) when she was first diagnosed. But she has a complicating condition called acromegaly which is less common.

From the sounds of it, Johnny is a little overweight. Most of the dry foods are too high in carbs for a diabetic, with the one BJM suggested being amongst the lowest carbs of them. Wet food is better, and often cats will lose weight when transitioned to a wet food diet. When you get him home, you should see if he likes wet food. Some take to it instantly and treat it like a treat. Some are harder to convert. The Catinfo website has lots of tips for transitioning cats to wet food from dry. Wet food is also better for cats with urinary issues.

Regarding blood glucose meters, if you aren't in the US, you can't get the Relion models, unless you shop across the border like I do. Look for one that takes a smaller drop of blood. There is a consumer reports for meters on this page. The biggest expense is the test strips so get one with cheaper strips. The vet may try to sell you a pet specific one - it's not needed and the strips are much more expensive.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Thanks for the info Wendy.

You guessed it!... I'm in Canada so that makes sense now.

Also, yes, Johnny is a little overweight as well.

I will definitely see if his preference for dry food has changed any as the last time we tested him there were two other cats with us as well who devoured canned food before Johnny could even get to it.

I'll look into the blood meter as well.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Thank you too BJM!

That's a lot of info. It's actually scaring me a little! :/
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

1way2rock said:
That's a lot of info. It's actually scaring me a little! :/
Click to expand...

It seems like it, yes. I know all of us were scared when we started this journey. The very best thing you did was to find this place. It is FULL of very helpful people that want to help you with Johnny. It will get easier in time, but until it does we are here to help. I personally know that without this group of people, Tommy would be so much worse off. Take a deep breath and try to stay calm around Johnny. He will feel your anxiety and will probably be anxious then too. Remember that you take steps during a journey and can only go one step at a time. There is a wealth of information here and when you have time check out all the great advise. The more comfortable you are the easier it will be for you. Again, welcome!
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

1way2rock said:
Thank you too BJM!

That's a lot of info. It's actually scaring me a little! :/
Click to expand...

Its mostly a look up table, so you can understand what the numbers may indicate. The important numbers are the low ones; too low is dangerous quickly.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Everything will be ok, just remember that key to getting Johnny controlled is a good insulin like Lantus, home testing to monitor the insulin effects and low carb food; wet food preferred. My kitty Dusty has been in remission since Oct 2013 by changing his diet to Fancy Feast pate style food, home testing and having used a good insulin. There's hope! :-D
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Hello to Frank and extra sweet kitty Johnny and welcome to the message board.

It's ok, we sometimes give you a lot of information in the beginning, so ask us to slow down if we are overwhelming you.

My best advice? Deep breathing exercises. Deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release. It can help to relieve some of the stress of this diabetes diagnosis.

We hope we can give you the confidence that this easily treatable disease can be managed and many kitties even go OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice) and are controlled simply by diet.

My Wink has been diet controlled for 15 months now. It happened because I ignored the vet's advice to feed the high carb Hill's W/d food and switched Wink to low carb (<10%) canned food. It made all the difference.

Wink was a die hard dry food addict. It took me 6 weeks and I used almost all these tips and tricks for Transitioning Feline Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food by vet Dr. Lisa Pierson. If you are going to try to get Johnny to try the wet food, you may find many of these tips helpful.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Thank you everyone! This is great info and I really appreciate how everyone is being so helpful and offering advice!

The temperature has been really hot here yet I've been feeling cold sweats, stomache aches, and now a scratchy throat to boot! I'm sure it's all anxiety from Johnny's diagnosis (not to mention a bunch of other life events).

Thanks again. Johnny should be back home tomorrow morning. I'll let you know what I'm told and will then review your advice. I'll definitely challenge or at least question them on the w/d food.

Frank
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Hi all
Just a question about Fancy Feast Classics...

Are the cans actually labelled as 'classics' or are they considered classics only because they are not 'medleys' or 'delights'.

My local pet store (which is part of a big chain) has no clue about fancy feast 'classics'.

Thanks!

Frank
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

There is a subtle band around the bottom of the can which says Classic
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

In Canada, I believe they're called Pâtés.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Ok thank you. I'll have to have second look. Pâté basically means it's like a spread rather than chunky but I'll have to see if maybe all their Pâté have the band that says they are also 'classics'.

Thx again! :)
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Frank - I see you and Johnny have already received a lot of good advice and information, but I just wanted to pop in and say WELCOME!
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Are you in Canada? If you would be willing, we'd love to see some bits of information added to the User Control Panel.

User Control Panel, Profile tab, Edit Profile, Location field - add your country, state/province, closest city if you are willing.

User Control Panel. Profile tab, Edit Signature. Add your first name, your cats name, diagnosis date, insulin used, meter used for testing, any other complicating health conditions your cat has, food being fed. These little tidbits will then be there at a glance for those of us helping you and we can help you better. Hope you will consider adding this information for us to see.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Hi!

Yes I'm in Canada. Just updated my signature with some info. Hope it works!
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Hi everyone,

Johnny's numbers are still pretty high. I'm slowly increasing his insulin dose but I've gone from 1 unit to 2.5 units already. I know this will vary from one cat to another as well as the type of food they eat however is this a normal dose in general?

I'm still having trouble getting him to eat canned food. Just the smell of wet food makes him turn away.

Thx
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

You need to wait 3 to 7 days before increasing the Lantus dose, depending on whether you are following the tight regulation protocol or the start low, go slow protocol.

We have a nifty color coded grid to store your test numbers, insulin doses, and notes in a shareable Google Drive file.
Instructions are here.

Once you get your spreadsheet grid set up or when you look at someone else's signature link, this'll make more sense!

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Sounds great. I'll check it out. Today is a perfect day to run tests.

Thank you! :)
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Thanks so much for putting those tidbits of data in your signature. It may not seem like much, but it sure does help us to help you better.

You mentioned that Johnny turns his nose up at any wet food. Is the Hill's M/d you are feeding the dry food then?
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Yep! It's the dry food. I've read the different threads about how pate/canned food is better as well as well as threads about making the switch however I haven't been able to make it work as Johnny will not have anything to do with wet food. He's always been a little picky. Oddly enough, although this hasn't happened in a looong time, he enjoyed licking salt off chips!!! (Something his previous owner got him to try!!)

:/
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

You might want to look into a lower carb dry food if you think it will take him a while to transition over to wet. The only dry food with carbs low enough for our diabetics is the Young Again Zero Carb (actually around 3% carbs), but it's internet order only. Don't let the cost intimidate you as many report that since it's so much more dense than regular dry food, their cats eat a lot less of it. They'll also send you free samples so you can see if your cat likes it first before buying it. There is also Evo Cat and Kitten that's "lower" carb, but it's around 12%, IIRC. Still not ideal, but better than the Hills MD (16% carbs on dry matter basis).
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Ok thank you. I'll definitely give it a shot because I got a scare yesterday where the meter reading was just 'hi'!

I actually managed to give my cat some real chicken yesterday by sprinkling some catnip on it... Which he seems to like eating for some reason (is that normal/good?)

The chicken was cooked though (without onions or garlic of course)... But it was just a test to get him to taste real chicken with the hope that he'll associate that taste with the canned food.

Does anyone know if this website sends out notifications for replies! I don't seem to get any and sometimes forget to check. :/
 
Re: Just diagnosed - My little Johnny is truly a little swee

Once you get up over the400 mg/dL, the specific number isn't important - its too high and you determine what you need to do to address the problem. You test for urine ketones and more than a trace of those means a vet visit. Otherwise, you follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments.

A little catnip here and there isn't likely to hurt him. If it helps transition him to canned food, go for it. Another trick is to take the canned food and bake it to a dry level he'll eat. Then, gradually bake it less and less, until its merely warm. It can take some time to do this, but if it works, go for it.

The website is supposed to be able to send notifications; you configure that in the User Control Panel at the upper left of the screen. Take a browse through it - there's a lot of little tweaks you can make.
 
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