Just diagnosed HELP

Status
Not open for further replies.
Eastern time. Yes he ate a little at 2 ish. He is only eatting canned, some did have gravy as he refused other canned and I'm trying to mix to get him to go gravy-less. I tested him about 5:30 (I have a hard time getting blood so I start early) 111. He ate a little bit at around 6 and I tested him right at 8 and it was 139. I'll test him again at 10p Thanks for the help. I didn't feel comfortable with the numbers as low as the vet said. He is on 1 unit of Prozinc twice a day.
 
My cat Bob was on PZI (a compounded version) which is a little different that Prozinc, but not by much.
My vet was very aggressive with her dosing advice, but not as aggressive as yours. My instructions were to give him 1u if he was over 100, and "if he's under 100, call me". I even shot on numbers under 100 several times, but less than a 1u dose. And that was before I really understood things and wasn't really an active member of FDMB. I didn't really understand the danger of "low numbers" then.

This is a recap of the numbers and times, put in a format that will make it easier for anyone reading to understand:

AMPS 156 (1u)
+8 ate
PMBG 111 (ate small amount) (the "PMBG" indicates that you tested at his shot time, but didn't give any insulin. "PMPS" would mean you had given a shot)
+14 139
+16 ???

That "+16" will indicate that it's been 16 hours since his AM shot.

Carl
 
How many hours since the shot? Because we are all over the world, we put our numbers into the +# format - like +14 is 14 hours after the shot. Was the 147 14 hours after the shot?

I can't see you shooting tonight. You could shoot when he gets up to 200, but it would probably throw you off schedule because you would have to shoot 12 hours from that shot time. Would that be possible tomorrow?

If not, skip tonight. Remember, tomorrow he may be in the 200-300 range because he has been 24 hours since his last shot.. I would still reduce the dose to .5 and try to get some midcycle numbers. With the food change, things are changing with his numbers. It's always easier to start a little lower with the dose and increase as the numbers indicate than try to react to low numbers.
 
The 147 is +16 from his 1 unit this am. He ate tonight first about 4 hrs ago and then then a little more after I took the reading. I'll wait till the morning and check him for this morning shot. Thanks everyone for their hand holding! I was worried what to do.
 
I agree with Sue on lowering the dose (assuming you can eyeball .5u? Do you have 1/2 unit marks on your syringes?

The object is to get a dose that is low enough to allow you to give him a shot into safe numbers every 12 hours, which keeps insulin working more evenly over the course of the day and night.

And yes, if at all possible, try to get one or two tests in the range of 4 to 8 hours after the morning shot so you can see how the dose affects his numbers during the cycle.

You're doing great!

Carl
 
This morning was 196. Thats +24 PMBG Is that right? He's had no insulin since yesterday am. I can eyeball .5 if you think I should give him that?
Also I am off this week so I can try and test his blood every 4 hours. I'm not having to do as many pricks. thanks everyone

Sharon and Pepe

Ok, I decided to give him .5U. I wasn't sure when I'd get an answer and didn't want to get us off schedule. I will test again and do the mini curve today. Every 3 hrs and post that.
 
Hi Sharon.
Glad that you decided to go with .5u this morning.

Since you gave him the shot that would be called his AMPS reading, and any tests today would be thought of as how many hours past shot time you get them, like if it's every three hours, it would look like

AMPS 196 (.5u)
+3
+6
etc.

Carl
 
Here we are so far

AMPS 196 (.5u)
+3 151
+6 92

He ate about 3 oz before his shot. I gave him about half a can after the +6 reading
 
They are good? I didn't know if I should worry about the 92. Is it okay to do the next 3 hr even though he ate some after the last one? He is getting mad about all the ear pokes. Anywhere else I can poke besides his ears?

thanks
 
92 is a perfectly safe number, especially when it happens in the time frame of +6 or so. That's when his BG should be about as low as it is going to go, typically.

The ears are the best place to get blood from. Some people have tried the paw, but I never did so I'm not quite sure how well that works, or exactly where to get the blood from. You can use either ear, and you can poke anywhere along the edge. My cat always bled better from his left ear, and I'd pick a slightly different spot each test to reduce scarring or tenderness to one area. Neosporin with pain relief after the poke can help.

When you test him, do you give him some sort of reward? One thing you might try is to just hold him and rub his ears without testing him, and give him a low carb treat of some sort. Just so the experience isn't always stressful for either of you. If you're tense when testing, he'll pick up on that. Most cats eventually warm up to the whole experience, and testing and giving shots becomes really routine and easy. What you want to try to do is make it a positive experience. Treats and extra lovin' can help make that possible.

Carl
 
Wait and see.

Since he just ate, it could bump up high enough to be appropriate to shoot.

Looking positive, though.
 
Wonder if I can teach Pepe to prick his own ear or paw? I forgot how he hates his feet touched so I had to do his poor ear again. I think this was about 3 pokes. Luckily only 1 more tonight! I think his numbers look good. Which my vet had been a little more help.
 
A dab of neosporin ointment (not cream) may be applied to the ears a few minutes prior to testing, then wiped off to test. It helps the blood bead up and may reduce the annoyance of being pricked.
 
AMPS 196 (.5u)
+3 151
+6 92
+9 124
PMBG 103

He is eating again. As I said previouly he ate some at +6, not a lot. I'd say he's had a total of 3 oz (he has a few more bites to take to be 3 since the +6.

Sharon and Pepe
 
If you hadn't already decided, I would go with "skipping the shot". :smile:

Carl
 
I was thinking that too. Stick with .5 in the morning if it isn't too low? What would you say would be a stick number? Or I guess a not stick. No one is on at 6 am when it's his shot time.

thanks for all the advise everyone. I am going to try and get different needles from the vet tomorrow so I can do smaller doses. I am guessing I need a perscription to get at the drugstore?
 
Pepe's mom said:
I was thinking that too. Stick with .5 in the morning if it isn't too low? What would you say would be a stick number? Or I guess a not stick. No one is on at 6 am when it's his shot time.

thanks for all the advise everyone. I am going to try and get different needles from the vet tomorrow so I can do smaller doses. I am guessing I need a perscription to get at the drugstore?
Click to expand...

Not sure what to recommend for dose level so I'll let a more experienced and wiser person answer that question. ;-)

I just discovered the other day that out here in California, you can buy up to 30 syringes at a time without a prescription. You can either check with your pharmacist or google your state's laws to see if it's the same (although I wouldn't be the least surprised if there was no law; CA seems to have laws for everything that most states never even heard of).
 
Sharon,
Are you going to be home tomorrow? If so, then I think you could give a .5u dose on a number somewhere above 150. Maybe 170? Every cycle is not going to be the same. But today, he started at 196, and dropped down to 92 on that dose. Had that been a 170, he may have dropped down into the 60s.

If you can monitor him, I think 170 might be a good "line in the sand". And, you would want to get a test around +4 to see how low he is. If he is below 100 at that point, then you could give him a small meal to slow the dropping numbers down.

You may see a number higher than recent numbers in the morning, since he will have not had a shot in 24 hours. But after skipping yesterday, he didn't really go "high" by this morning. If you see a number below 150 in the morning, of course skip the shot. But if that happens, it could be time to reduce his dose even lower whenever he does actually need some insulin. We can cross that bridge when we come to it!

I'm not sure if Virginia requires a prescription for syringes. Every state has different laws for that. Your vet would know. He may not even realize that they come with 1/2 unit marks. You might have to call around to different pharmacies to make sure they have them on hand.

Carl
 
Yes I am off all week. I'll check him in the morning and see where he is. Tomorrow I'll do 4 hr readings. thanks for your help Carl. I'm going to check tomorrow about syringes. Mine is only in 1 unit increments.
 
AMPS 206 .5U

He didn't eat his food I had left down. I'm trying some new low carb food (Instinct) which of course he didn't like so mixed it in with some Friskies. He's eaten some. I'm going to do the 4 hour tests today. Only had to stick him twice this morning. Yeah! :-D

sharon and pepe
 
Really a decent number with no shot last night:-)
The testing usually gets easier after a few tries!
Carl

And that +4 reading looks great too.
 
Went to see if I could get needles with smaller increments marked. Vet number 3 (I think I've seen all the vets now at this hospital) was more knowledgable. He said they didn't make needles with smaller increments. I told him about my home testing which he said was good. He said it sounds like he may only need .5 a day. Said they have a hard time doing curves in the hospital. Said Pepe may be able to be on just diet but told me nothing about numbers I should be looking for. Gosh you have to pry info out of them! thank Allah for this site and all of you!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
I asked about buying them and they said, well they are made for people and they use big doses. What do we pay vets for?? I'll try them today. Thanks Denise!!
 
In case no one has mentioned it, the ReliOn syringes from WalMart are for U-100 insulin such as Lantus or Levemir.

It is possible to use a U-100 syringe with conversion for the insulin concentration of ProZinc, to do smaller doses without quite so much eyeballing.

1 mL of U-100 = 100 units (Lantus, Levemir) VS 1 mL of U-40 = 40 units (ProZinc)
Basically, the mark on the U-100 syringe multiplied by 0.4 gives you the dose of a U-40 insulin, since the concentration is 40% lower per mL.

For the low doses you are using:
U-100 marking vs U-40 dose
1 unit mark = .4 units of ProZinc
.5 unit mark = .2 units of ProZinc
 
Denise & Honey said:
Just to let you know that I picked up a box of 100 syringes last month at Walmart - no prescription (CA)
They have .5 unit markings and I don't have any problems with air bubbles etc.. and they're cheaper than all the others :mrgreen:


Here's a link:
http://www.relion.com/diabetes/syringes
Click to expand...

The NPSS law changed this past New Year's to OTC purchase of up to 30 syringes throughout the state (vs. being set by county previously?), so who knows why they let you, but take advantage of it, by all means! :lol:

And thanks for the syringe recommendation because I have been struggling with air bubbles every single shot and it's irritating the hell out of me. :evil:
 
Thank you BJ!!!!

That is VERY IMPORTANT.
They do make U40 syringes with half unit marks, but it seems they are very hard to find. And you can probably only get them from a vet or vet supplier. Human syringes are made for human insulin (like Lantus and Levemir) which are U100 insulins.
The easiest way to tell is that the U40 syringe comes with a red cap over the needle and the U100s have an orange cap.

You CAN use U100 syringes with Prozinc but you MUST use the conversion chart when you do that.

Carl
 
I have been on a wild goose chase. 2 pharmacies thought I was crazy and said they didn't make them that small. Petsmart vet said they don't have them there but order when needed. They didn't offer to do it for me. I think Walmart gave me the wrong size (they are in the car and Pepe is sitting on my lap. A zombie was waiting on me. First he gave me syringes that did 100 units and I think the second box said 50 but I didn't study it till I got home. That site says

What kinds of markings are on your syringes?

Our markings range from ½ unit to 2 unit increments, depending on the volume of the syringe. Here is the breakout:
•1cc - 2 unit increments
• 1/2cc - 1 unit increments
•3/10cc - ½ unit increments

so do I need 3/10 cc? And would I still use 1/2 unit?

thanks
 
Yes, the 3/10 cc (aka 3/10 mL - same thing) will allow you to micro dose your cat, following the conversion from the U-100 marking to the U-40 dose.
 
His AMPS is 183. I am giving him a tiny bit under .5 Hard to tell on this needle. I'm getting the new needles today and I think I'll check in 6 hours to see what's going on. Had to do a lot of poking this morning. Also going to get the ReliOn meter.

Sharon and Pepe
 
Found out you cannot exchange needles. So I had to buy a new box and call the number on the box (walmart did not tell me this, I happened to see it on the box) They are going to send me a return box and get Walmart to give me a box of the right size needles. So I'll have 2 !
Got my new meter. Going to try it out at the 6 hour mark.
 
Re: Just diagnosed HELP - 1 week in almost

AMPS 183 (.5u) tiny bit under .5
+6 51

Ate about 1.5 oz for breakfast. Ate a few bites at the +6 mark. Since I was using my new ReliOn meter I tested again after he ate and got 59

thoughts?
 
That's a wonderful number for +6. And good that you let him eat. Another check in an hour would be a good idea to make sure he's staying in the 50s or higher.

Carl
 
Ok he is now at 85. +7 after his shot. If I am looking at this conversion right I am drawing to 1 unit in the U100 syringes? Yes they have an U100 syringes orange cap, 3/10 cc. I haven't given him a dose with them yet.

thanks Carl
 
Yes, if the intent is to give him .4u of prozinc, you would draw up to 1.0u on the u100 syringe.
And the +7 number looks great!
I think he's good until PMPS tonight.
Carl
 
Here we are for today

AMPS 183 (.5u) tiny bit under .5
+6 51
+7 85
PMBG +12 87

I am ecited about our new low numbers. But then I get worried about the hypo thing. confused_cat
 
If you can get those syringes with the half unit marks, you could lower the dose more easily. If you draw up to the half unit mark, that would equate to .2u, which is half what you gave today.
You skipped tonight, right? If so, good call.
Carl
 
OMG what a morning. Got a AMPS 23 with ReliOn. Freaked so tried another and got E 7, which I just found out was the test thing moved or got more blood after it started. So I thought I don't know what's wrong with this meter so I better try the accu chek. *&^%$ thing I had to stab him about 4 times to get enough, he's fighting and growling. That got 82.
He ate a few bites (he ate at 2:30a when I got up) He seems fine. He had his treat after his test. So definitely no shot this morning which I am happy about but that 23 scared me. He's in here with me now looking normal which I have heart failure. ohmygod_smile nailbite_smile
 
Wow, that 23 would have freaked me out too!
Having not had any insulin for 24 hours though, there's no way it could be right. I'd trust the 87 because it makes more sense:-) and so did skipping this morning.
It could be that pepe will need tiny amounts of insulin at some point in the future. But as long as you keep seeing numbers in the normal range (40-120), I think I would just sit back and smile a lot:-)

Carl
 
I'm going to do another test in about an hour. He is not liking the food I'm giving. Trying some of the other low carb Fancy Feast and some Tiki. I remembered Fortiflora on their food is supposed to make them eat it, so I've sprinkled some on. He is snoozing at the moment.
If he needs insulin today I think I'll do the .2 like you recommended on the U100 syringes. And I'll try not to freak!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

thanks

Sharon and Pepe
 
Warming the food or sprinkling a bit of Parmesan cheese on the food also help encourage eating.

A bit of active play (15-20 minutes) may trigger the hunt-catch-kill-eat-eliminate-groom-sleep behavior cycle.

When you get an unusual test result, re-testing is a good idea. Make sure your hands are clean and dry whenever you test. Check the expiration date for the test strips. When you are first learning to test, it may be helpful to have set up to do 2 tests one after the other.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top