Just diagnosed-feeling humbled

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SweetLikePeaches

SweetLikePeaches

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My fiance and I rescued our cat Peaches off the street. We noticed she had been drinking lots of water and filling her box. Took her to the vet and she got diagnosed with diabetes. Our vet is wonderful and supportive. We started Peaches on 2 units Caninsulin daily. The first three days went ok, but both yesterday and today, Peaches has been irritable and wont let me get near her to give her insulin. My fiance is out of town for 2 weeks so I am trying to establish a routine on my own. Peaches wont sit still for me to safely give the injection regardless of food distractions. She only likes to cuddle at night and during the daytime is anti-social. I am feeling very humbled. I want to help Peaches but each day trying to give her insulin is getting harder and harder. She is normally a very sweet cat and is a "mommas girl", now she growls and bites me. I am a nurse and am comfortable giving injections confused_cat to humans...not my fur baby. Its the weekend, the vet office is closed and I dont know what I should do. ~Lindsay confused_cat
 
Welcome, Sorry for the rough initiation. Could you give a general idea of where you live, country, state, city?
I'm not familiar with Caninsulin but I'm a reative newbie myself, but I think it's one of the insulins that is harder on kitty. Are you home testing? What food are you feeding?
We all encourage home testing, so you know if your baby really needs the insulin and how much.
We also encourage feeding low carbohydrate wet foods - there are a few lists that are very helpful to choose from.
Generally, all the classic fancy feast and Friske Pates are low carbohydrate if you want need a quick start.
My guess would be, that the dose might not be right and that's her only way to tell you right now.
I know there is one or two older insulins that are harder on cats than PZI/Prozinc and or Lantus/Glargin or Levemir .
Many of us shoot while kitty is eating. With 31 short needles most kitties don't even know they are getting their shot. I know I used to load the syringe, get testing supplies together along with lo carb treats, warm rice filled sock and warm Maisey's ear, test, treat and feed. by then the insulin was closer to room temperature and not so stinging.
HUGS, you can do this. I live alone and have M.S. and arthritis.
 
The first question I have to ask is...are you testing her bg before each shot? And then again at about 5 or 6 hours after the shot? I ask because one possibility is that the insulin is dropping her bg quickly and then letting her rise again quickly and she doesn't feel so good. After 2 weeks of this, she has connected the shots with this roller coaster and is protesting.

Are you in Canada or Europe? If you post generl location, there may be a member who can offer help in the short term while you are alone.
 
you can try the 'surprise' shot.
perhaps get you syring ready and at the go.
get peaches all loved up and purring...truth be told you do not have to scruff the injection site...just find a place near the side of the tummy, and without any fanfare or much ado...whilst scrtching her head just jab needle into side and plunge.
most cats do not even know they are getting a shot.
sometimes if you prep them for the shot, or 'act' like you are giving them a shot they get annoyed.
don't even pay it any mind.
btw, the dose dose sound a tad high.
are your hometesting?
lori
and tomtom
 
The syringes for Caninsulin are usually 28 or 29 gauge.

If you use human syringes, you can get 31 gauge, which is a tinier needle and most kitties barely notice the shot.

Since human insulins are U100 (100 units per cc) and Caninsulin is U40 (40 units per cc), a conversion is needed to give the correct dose if you change syringes. Human insulins are more concentrated, so a tinier amount of liquid contains the insulin.

It is possible that 2u is too much insulin and Peaches is trying to tell you that. I would highly recommend (as others have also) getting a human glucometer for testing blood sugar and test Peaches.

My diabetic cat Tiggy only needs 0.5u twice per day.
 
Thank you for all your support and advice. I live in a small town in Nova Scotia, Canada. Today is only day 5 attempt to give Peaches insulin. I have all the supplies needed to home test her sugars, but I cant get her to relax enough for me to give the insulin injection or test her sugars. Oh should I mention how passive she is at the vet????? Ugh....she relaxes there but is "Queen of the castle" at home. When she had her blood sugar checked at the vets office 5 days ago, it was 26.2 mmol! Oh my...We need to establish a routine but the past 2 d confused_cat ays Peaches senses something is up when I try and sneak her insulin. Do I force it and hold her down if she keeps running away from me? The vet wants me to feed her Hills prescription M/D dry food....but it is full of corn!!!! I started giving Peaches Fancy Feast Pate....the low carb ones and she likes it.....so far. Our big struggle is that Peaches is underweight, skin and bones, only 8 Lbs. In the past few months pre-diagnosis, she has lost 3 Lbs.
 
oh my, ok, many words of wisdom here.
dump the dry. return it. do whatever, but if peaches likes the low carb fancy feast....THAT is what she SHOULD be eatting.
we have a food chart with every flavor of every brand of canned and raw cat food that you should see. it lists the carb count.
as for the shot.
I would NOT continue the 2u's if she is switching her diet over. PLEASE and I cannot emphasize this enough....DO NOT SHOOT SAME DOSE when changing from high carb to low carb...ESPECIALLY as you are not yet testing.
Now the shots.
I would hate to think you need to force her...this would not be the ideal way to start....and I fear you will have greater problems down the road with testing.
Have you tried everything to seduce her into sitting still, a particular treat? a catnip toy? a brushing? anything?
Every attempt you make to seduce her, not make ANY BIG DEAL over the fact that a shot is on it's way is a time she gets praise and a treat....even if you fail.
The praise and treat is just after the attempt.
Before you just kind of get next to her...no biggie, just ya know. hi, how ya doin peaches, kind of thing.
Please, reduce dose now tho'.
Explanations will be forthcoming.
Lori
and tomtom
 
btw, how do you shoot. pinch and tent or just jab? jabbing is faster and goes unnoticed.
 
I just searched for members in Nova Scotia, and it looks like KarenRamboConan is in Sydney. If you are near there, and want to send her a message, she might be able to help you with the best places to get supplies etc.

As Lori said, the dry food is not good - lots of corn and other carbs as you already observed. Most vets will take it back - just say that your cat won't eat it. Feeding exclusively wet, low carb canned is an important pice to getting diabetes under control, and if fortunate, into remission.

Until she is well regulated, she will be quite hungry. Just feed her as much a she wants, preferrably in several small meals and with water added. Many people use equal water and food proportions and mix thoroughly to apple sauce consistency.

Even though I used Caninulin for a year, I never really liked the action of the insulin in my cat. I switched to Levemir because of the more consistent action of the insulin throughout the day, partly because it builds up its own 'reservoir' and releases slowly all day so that there are no quick drops and then fast rises like with Caninsulin. Most people use Lantus (Glargine) and it works essentially the same way.

Keep posting - there are lots of members all with great suggestions to help you and Peaches. It gets better - the learning curve is steep, but ever-so-doable.
 
Tonights task....test Peaches sugar. I will have wine on stand-by! I cannot thank you all enough for your support. This has been an emotional roller-coaster aka sugar dance the past few days. I am starting to wonder if my vet is mis-informed about how Caninsulin works in cats. Your posts prompted me to research further, and its supposed to be given twice a day 12 hrs apart in cats, not once a day like my vet ordered. Oh and yes.....thank-you for the warnings.....2 units is WAY too much for Peaches. I did the dosage calculations and she should be only getting 1 unit (she is 8.4 lbs). Test first...insulin later. Like you guys said...Peaches "CATtitude" was obviously her telling me 2 units made her feel sick. Ok....Peaches is chillin....wine is chillin....fingers, toes and paws crossed for a successful testing night!
 
I'm really new here too, but my shots were starting to hurt my cat. I put some fresh cat nip in front of him right before the shot and it really seemed to help. Good luck with everything, I'm glad your kitty was able to "tell"you it was the wrong dose.
 
Oh dear - I thought about asking if you were giving her shots twice daily, but some people get a bit offended with a lot of 'dumb' questions. Are you thinking 1 unit morning and night?

If you look at this website and about half way down the page, you will see a couple of graphs of how the insulin acts in the cat's body and the resulting drop and rise in bg.

I hope that she feels better with the twice a day dosing, and that you are able to get a few tests to see how she is doing.
 
Just thought to add - test, feed, and then insulin when she has had at least 3 or 4 good sized bites of food. With the insulin dropping the bg so quickly, she needs to have food in her tummy as the insulin starts working.
 
Waving hello from Sydney

Hi Lindsay!

I see you are from the Valley - a pretty, pretty spot indeed! I'm a few hundred kms up and across the Causeway, but it's nice to see another Nova Scotian popping up. Welcome!

As a nurse, you already understand the basics of diabetes. Feline diabetes is the same but different. ;-) It's very likely that Peaches is a Type 2 diabetic (because of her age, etc.) but unlike humans, her beta cells in her pancreas can actual heal and start producing insulin again if the FD is caught and treated early. So here's hoping!

Like humans, diet is crucial in controlling BGs. Your vet is probably old school (Caninsulin SID and dry m/d were the way to go "way back when", but things have definitely changed- especially over the past 5 years) so I am glad you are doing research. Dry food full of corn makes about as much sense as telling your human patient to eat lots of corn - it's starchy, hard to digest, and sends your BGs thru the roof! Unlike humans, cats are obligate carnivores and don't require more than 5% of their nutritional calories to come from carbs. As a matter of fact, it is now being suspected by researchers that a dry food, high carb diet may literally be burning their little pancreases out. Going low carb, and canned is pretty essential for getting this under control. Your average dry food is filled with corn, other grains, starches and "meals". Real meat is generally missing. It does not meet their needs at all.

Here's a website by a vet who has specialized in feline nutrition.
http://catinfo.org/

Friskies, Fancy Feast (FF), etc. have lots of good options. In Canada, we actually have a good selection of grocery store brands that are low carb. Our Compliments (Sobeys) and President's Choice (SuperStore) foods are good choices. One big bonus is that the PC and Our Compliments cost less than FF, and several of them have better ingredients! There are several PC flavours that are low carb- like duck - which FF doesn't even carry.

My guys like the PC and the Our Compliments just as much as Fancy Feast. Janet has added a section of PC foods to her international food list if you want to check it out (http://binkyspage.tripod.com/nonusfd.html ). The Sobeys ones aren't on yet because we can't get the "as fed" analysis of the food. Also, WalMart makes a small tin (85g, same as FF) called "Special Kitty" and LOTS of those are also low carb, and cheaper. Janet has quite a few of those listed. Just make sure you are checking her non-US charts.

If they are not in Janet's list, the next best thing is to label read- avoid obvious grains (wheat, rice, corn) and other carbs (potatoes, peas) and things called "food starch"... which I assume is cornstarch, but the "starch" part says "stay away" to a sugarcat.

Insulin. Yes, Caninsulin- and all insulins (Lantus, PZI, Levemir) should be given to cats twice a day . Unlike humans and dogs, cats are not dosed by weight, but by trial and error, so we "start low and go slow" (starting at 1u). Hometesting is important- using your favourite meter- and you may see a dramatic drop in BGs after switching food. Warm the ear well first - it bleeds easier, and give both of you a treat afterward, even if you don't get a blood drop!

Holy cow - I could keep writing a novel here! Sorry! I'll stop before your head explodes. If you want to talk, or need an ear, you can call me, or I can call you. Just send me an email at sugarcats AT gmail DOT com

Good luck and welcome aboard!
 
Guess what....I was finally able to test Peaches blood sugar tonight! Thats the good news...bad news...her sugar is 29.6 (533)....ugh. I tried to give her 1 unit Canisulin while distracted by food and lovin...she growled, hissed and ran away. Days 1,2 and 3 of starting insulin went ok. Day 4 (yesterday) and day 5 (today) have been unsuccessful. She hasn't gotten any :-(. Is this normal? Has anyone else had this difficulty in the beginning? cat(2)_steam
 
Yes Lindsey, that happens to all of us at one time or another. There is even a name for it, we call it a fur shot.
It's frustrating, but we never try to reshoot. You just never know how much insulin made it's way in.
It is ok, and the high number is no reason to raise dose. Sometimes too much insulin will actually raise the numbers.
That has a name too, it's called 'Rebound'
You may want to find a vial of keto-strips. It is an over the counter urine test for a condition called ketoacidosis that can possibly occur with high numbers.
Aside from all that,,,,just take it slow and go...slow and go.
Thanks for the update :razz:
Lori
and tomtom
 
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Caninsulin

This is the web page that I meant to give you a few messages ago. Doh!

Its not unusual for a kitty to start anticipating the shots, esp early in the process. And it is usually compounded by the syringe holder also anticipating!

If you can be sure that she will eat after her shot, then perhaps try withholding food for maybe 2 hours b4 her shot time so that she will want to eat. Most cats don't even notice the shots when their little noses are firmly in their food dishes.

Might she be better behaved with another person just standing there - not restraining her, but maybe a bit of a distraction. Perhaps a neighbour would come over.

Can't think of any other suggestions at the moment. Perhaps others will chime in.
 
Well, with that BG, she needs a shot - no question! How are you shooting? Pulling up the scruff of th eneck into a tent is easiest, and don't pull back on the plunger - just slip the needle in and depress. (I assume you are using the U40 needles that come with the Caninsulin? They are a larger gauge than the U100 ones you are used to at work. If you want, we can discuss switching to U100 needles and using the conversion table.)

I would recommend getting some ketostix and watching her urine for ketones, as well. As we discussed earlier, she has to eat. Her risk of ketones and fatty liver goes through the roof if she doesn't eat. Even if you have to feed her the dry m/d (ugh!) for now. Read the website I sent you - Dr. Lisa has some great tips for transitioning to wet from dry. My street rescue took about 2 years to switch ... they are stubborn! But Mia is not diabetic, so I went a bit slower. But eating and insulin for Peaches are essential. Especially with BGs over 25.

Pat both of you on the back. That's quite the step - well done! And congrats on joining Club Vampyre! :smile:
 
I think I misunderstood, this was a shot aborted...not a fur shot?
I suppose when all else fails.....overpowering your kitty and shooting her is just the tough love that you may have to muster up.
Lori
and tomtom
 
Yup...one day it was a fur shot...and today was a complete abort. I couldnt get near her. Tonight I am getting good rest and have already brainstormed back-up plans a and b if food diversion doesnt work again tomorrow. I have been trying the pinch and tent technique, but as soon as I start to lightly grasp her skin...she freaks! Being a street cat, it is quite obvious she wasnt handled much. She does cuddle with me late at night, but since she has gotten ill, she has little desire for lengthly cuddles. This sugar dance with Peaches is going to be harder than I thought.
 
I just wanted to say welcome! We were on Lantus for a month now we are in remission and Cedric is diet controlled. No more dry food, just canned.
your peaches needs her shot. how about wrapping her in a towel to test and inject? I give Cedric an Evo grain free treat plus a Dr. Forster & Smith chicken treak (I think they are like jerkey) and while he doesn't like to be tested, he sits there looking at those treat containers and puts up with it. He's a cuddler though.
Good luck and welcome!
 
I can't help but wonder if she is one of those cats that just doesn't feel well with the action of Caninsulin. How would you feel about trying another insulin? You might be able to buy one cartridge (3ml) of either Lantus or Levemir and see if the more gentle action agrees with her.
 
We have two ways of restraining cats. I don't know if either would work. One is the burrito. You fold her up in a towel so only her head and a spot where you want to shoot is showing. We put Oliver next to the arm of the sofa so I could lightly press him into the arm and he couldn't get away. The other is the clothespin method: Clothespin trick It mimics the way a mother cat holds the kitten by the scruff of the neck. Most often we suggest them for getting them still while you hometest. I don't know if they will work for a shot.

Sometimes it helps ( I know it sounds silly) to tell yourself and then your cat that you are doing this to help her and that you WILL be giving her a shot. I do know some people who are dealing with feral cats use gloves!

Are you sure shooting in the right place with a sharp smaller gauge needle? How to give a shot
 
We did it! We did it! Peaches got her insulin shot this morning! Momma got a good nights rest, wrapped up my little "purrito",and got it done! Now for blood sugar testing! I am also wondering if Canisulin is too harsh for Peaches. I will try this for a week, 1 unit twice a day...and see what the numbers and Peaches tell me. Her appetite is still sub-optimal, and had to revert to giving her dry kibble this morning....but she did eat 1/2 her daily requirement immediatlely following injection. It helps that she is an emotional eater! Oh....it feels good....small steps...big rewards! This is all new to Peaches and I.....thanks once again to all of you. Doesnt seem as scary with all of your support,knowledge and advice!
 
Yeah! Celebrate the small steps - they are all important on this journey.

Maybe you could make a few discrete inquiries about purchasing a single cartridge (rather than a 10 ml vial) of either lantus or levemir - is there a hospital in your town? Sometimes the hospital pharmacy will sell one cartridge. Your vet may not be aware of the use of these 2 insulins in cats - we can get you lots of scientific references if you need them.
 
Congratulations! I will tell you that Gus jumped a little bit the first few shots and even gave me an over the shoulder look (we shoot him up while he's eating). That ended after the first few days and now he doesn't even notice the shot at all. Even the testing goes better. He squirms, but he takes it and is ready to eat after. :)
 
oh how cute is peaches!!!! is that her tongue she is sticking out or is she just pink right there?
 
Yup...that's Peaches with her tongue out! Fluke pic... one of my favs of her! Had a good night with her...she came around for a cuddle. I think I needed it more than she did! Tomorrow is a new day. She did well eating Fancy Feast this evening...hopefully "we" get her blood sugar done in the morning! I really didnt like how she acted after I gave her 1 unit Caninsulin...irritable, anti-social, sleepy and growled at me most times I came near her. I did check her sugar +3PS and she wasnt low at all. She bite me a few times so I could only check her the one time PS. At+8 PS I could tell the insulin was out of her system, because she perked up, played for a bit with me and even chirped at me and let me rub her belly....usual self. Ugh...tomorrow I will start weaning her off the Hills dry M/D that our vet highly recommended. :cry: How many calories minimum does a cat need a day? Peaches is not eating more than 6 bites canned food at a time and would love to graze on it all day if I let her. Since she is slightly anorexic, making sure she eats a sufficient amount of food ( half her daily needed intake) before she gets her insulin seems next to impossible.
 
Since you are in Canada, you can just go to a pharmacy, shopper's drugmart or some place, and purchase a better insulin.
Caninsulin did literally nothing much good for my Shadoe's BG and she remained in the 400s until I switched her to Lantus. I have her on Levemir now as she prefers it.
You can get a package of 5 cartridges of levemir and you will likely see good results within days. I am not sure what can be purchased in Lantus in Canada, either a vial or cartridges, but go with the one that you can get in cartridges to you don't need to waste any of it. As was mentioned, you will need to pick up U100 syringes for Lantus or Levemir; the syringes for caninsulin are U40..... with your vet not open all the time, it may be more convenient to be using insulin and syringes and meters/strips that can all be purchased at your local drug store.
For sure, can you pick up ketostix at your pharmacy, just ask the pharmacist, so you can test the urine for ketones.... such high BG can turn into a big problem quickly.

It's great you switched to a better food - the fancy feast pates are great. If you hold back all food for the 2hrs before each shot, you may have a more cooperative kitty LOL. In the beginning, if you have some treat that is loved, an offer of one at testing time and shot times could help convince kitty that it's worth it to hold still. If you look on starting out, like a rowboat from the shore... it may be kind of unsettling with the waves by the shore, but once you get out on the open water, it is smooth as glass for the most part.

Both my cats are fine with it all now, Oliver pretty much sleeps through the tests, and Shadoe comes to remind me that it's time for testing!
 
Lindsay - can you let her graze? You don't have to take the food up. If she is a grazer, leave the food down for her to nibble on.

If you want to switch insulins, and have a DEC in your hospital, ask them for a cartridge of Levemir or Lantus, and a few U100 syringes.

You're doing great! :smile:
 
I think we need to rename the kitty burrito - the purrito is a great name! So glad it made the shot easier and hope each one will be easier from now on.
 
What about sprinkling something she likes on top of her foods? I have a frequent problem with Shadoe being picky, but she loves sprinkles of fortiflora or else some freeze dried chicken, or in the beginning, you could even crush up some of that dry food she likes and sprinkle tiny bits on top of the wet to get her to eat more.
I am sure lots of others here can offer you some good suggestions for conversion over low carb wet foods.
 
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