joining with hope....

[Michal Golan]

Hi:
I am joining with the hope to get some insights and thank you in advance to anyone who will be willing to respond. Took my 13 yr old, rather healthy cat to the vet hospital (we dont have vet at my remote town so it is 90km each way which is highly stressful) to extract a tooth about 6 months ago. while there, and without consulting me they also treated him for mites, gave him a steroid shot for allergy and an antibiotic shot. they also indicated borderline blood test values--he was slightly anaemic (HCT 28.9%) and his phos level was on the law side (3.4 mg/dl) and recommended special renal diet--which I bought from them. my cat started to eat but went from bad to worse really fast loosing weight and wasting in front of my eyes. within a month I took him back there -- they ran another blood test and told me that he now has diabetes....!!! his blood sugar went from 105 to 446 mg/dl and that I need to inject him with insulin twice daily and change his diet to a diabetic diet (which by the way is almost the exact opposite of the renal diet). I refused the insulin for two reasons. 1)he was not diabetic a month ago and I noticed lots of carbohydrates in the diet--wheat, soy and corn--which he had never eaten before and which is also mostly GMO--so I assumed that had something to do with it and 2)he is not the kind of cat you can easily inject ---it would be close to impossible to do--also I travel for work a lot and he is mainly an outdoor cat. again without consulting me they injected him (God knows why) with another long lasting antibiotic by the name of Convenia ( I only found out about this later). I got him off all commercial foods and started to make my own raw food adding the correct vitamins and minerals--so I hope. within 2 weeks, his sugar went down to 290 and since then, we have not tested because it is near impossible. he gained his weight back, was doing much better but still drinks a lot and urinates a lot and recently, which is what concerns me, his belly became really swollen and hard, he sneezes a lot and is quite lethargic. I would like to have another blood test done but the 180km is really stressful and I still am looking for alternatives. Insights are welcomed. I just want to add that prior to the first vet visit, my cat was pretty wild, strong, alert, used to jump to the window edge--quite high, etc...

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Do you think he will let you get tests at home? We do have suggestions for conditioning him to the process before you end up poking him. It is the best way to know what is really going on, and without the stressful vet trip. Steroids can produce transitory diabetics but insulin could still be needed. Your change to a raw diet is a great idea and should help bring his values down.

We have lots of links and threads on home testing here:

[url]http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/[/URL]

 

[BJM]

Please see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools which will give you some additional assessments to evaluate your cat. The key ones for diabetes will be amount of water drunk, amount of urination, dehydration checks, and urine ketone and glucose testing.
Urine ketones can be an emergency.
Urine glucose indicates his glucose is still too high (over the renal threshold) and may be damaging his internal organs.

 

[Michal Golan]

Do you think he will let you get tests at home? We do have suggestions for conditioning him to the process before you end up poking him. It is the best way to know what is really going on, and without the stressful vet trip. Steroids can produce transitory diabetics but insulin could still be needed. Your change to a raw diet is a great idea and should help bring his values down.

We have lots of links and threads on home testing here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Thank you. I actually watched most of these videos and the problem was that he was fighting me violently all the many times that I tried.... I finally was not able to do it myself and took him to a lady in my town where both of us were able to hold him down and test but I can't do it daily. Also, for a whole week afterwards, he refused to get into the house so I cant even imagine injecting him with insulin daily.

 

[Sharon14]

Hi Michal, welcome. It's great that you've started making your own food for your kitty. That has helped bring the glucose down, but 290 is still a bit high. If it's hard to get blood samples, Can you keep him in long enough to get a urine sample? There are strips available to test glucose, & for ketones and UTI's. Insulin injections can be given while they eat. Many cats don't even notice. Not sure what the bloated belly can be, I hope someone comes along soon that can help with that.

 

[Michal Golan]

Please see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools which will give you some additional assessments to evaluate your cat. The key ones for diabetes will be amount of water drunk, amount of urination, dehydration checks, and urine ketone and glucose testing.
Urine ketones can be an emergency.
Urine glucose indicates his glucose is still too high (over the renal threshold) and may be damaging his internal organs.

Thanks. The cat is mainly an outdoor cat so it is quite difficult. if I keep him inside, he will stand for hours in front of the door crying.

 

[Michal Golan]

Hi Michal, welcome. It's great that you've started making your own food for your kitty. That has helped bring the glucose down, but 290 is still a bit high. If it's hard to get blood samples, Can you keep him in long enough to get a urine sample? There are strips available to test glucose, & for ketones and UTI's. Insulin injections can be given while they eat. Many cats don't even notice. Not sure what the bloated belly can be, I hope someone comes along soon that can help with that.

I like the idea of injecting him while he is eating... though I doubt he will not notice...this cat is so highly sensitive--to people, sounds, vibes....

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

We have had people test and give insulin to feral cats. It is often a matter of conditioning. Using a treat he really likes, and only for the testing times (PureBites and Bomito flakes are popular at my house; other people like to cook chicken and cut it into small treat sized Bites.)

While he is in the house, give him pets, praise and a treat in the same spot every time. The next few times. Add playing with his ears. Then add warming his ear. (Some people used the rice sack and warmed the whole body at first and then centered in on the ear.). Praise. Pets, treat and release. The hope is that, by the time you add the poke, they are conditioned to wait for the treat. We used the kitty burrito with Oliver at first. We wrapped him in a towel with only his head showing.

Having given those ideas, I can appreciate dealing with an outdoor cat who is skittish and untrusting can be real difficult. You might post on the Health forum and ask for help with a feral cat. I know others have done it.

 

[Sharon14]

I have a few like that, fortunately they are not diabetic! Like Sue says, conditioning helps. For the injection, try petting him and pinching his skin like you're giving a shot several times while he's eating. Then one day, when you're ready to actually give the shot, he's used to the feel. It would be best to be able to test him first though, so you don't give too much insulin. Try Sues method, although it may take awhile to get it, it really does work.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

While she wasn't mine I did foster for one of my vet's other client's diabetic cat that was about 98% feral with everyone but her owner. Seriously this not so little calico was psycho! When I first starting working with her and conditioning her to be tested I had to wear heavy leather gloves and wrap her up in a beach towel with just her head showing. By the time she went back to her daddy, she would come and climb into my lap, purring her brains out at test time. Cats are smart they figure out very quickly that the shots make them feel better and that annoying prick to the ear nets them a yummy treat. You may not be able to train a cat, but you can trick them into thinking it was their idea..lol

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[PAMELA ALLEN]

While she wasn't mine I did foster for one of my vet's other client's diabetic cat that was about 98% feral with everyone but her owner. Seriously this not so little calico was psycho! When I first starting working with her and conditioning her to be tested I had to wear heavy leather gloves and wrap her up in a beach towel with just her head showing. By the time she went back to her daddy, she would come and climb into my lap, purring her brains out at test time. Cats are smart they figure out very quickly that the shots make them feel better and that annoying prick to the ear nets them a yummy treat. You may not be able to train a cat, but you can trick them into thinking it was their idea..lol

Mel and The Fur Gang

I have a question, hopefully I will bringing Max home on insulin (Vetsulin) in the next couple of days. If I test him at home one evening and say his number is like 140-170, do I give him his next full dose of insulin. Today they have him on 2 units twice a day and he is still in the 400's, they are going to increase to 3 units tomorrow,

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

We suggest new diabetics not get shots under 200 but stall. Wait 20 minutes without feeding. You want to be sure they are rising not falling still, and that the number is 200+.

3 units is a large dose. Most cats here start on one and increases are made slowly by 0.25 to 0.5 as your home numbers suggest. Remember that stress raises blood glucose levels and he is bound to have been stressed at the vet. Numbers can drop 100+ points when they get home and relax.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Pam

To give you an real life example of what testing can tell you and how to adjust the dose. Now my new fellow Quillan, yep that handsome orange boy as my avatar. Just came 1500 miles and across two countries to live with me...Right now he is very high number wise yet when I raised his dose to 1u he plunged from 500 to 86 in just 3 hours and that steep fast drop sent him into what we call a bounce...So I have backed his dose off to .5u and he is slowly coming down now. Now since I use a depot insulin for me it is like steering a ship. I make a change then I have to wait several days for that change to take effect.

I have done this dance enough years that his high numbers don't freak me out at this stage of the game. And I have learned that no matter how quickly I want him "fixed" it isn't going to happen overnight, and it is going to be better for him in the long run if his numbers come down gently rather than overdosing him so much that I slam him down into that normal range. Plus right now this guy as chilled as he is about his new living situation is stressed out of his mind. In the last two weeks he has gone from a cage in a noisy kill shelter to foster care where he had a room to himself for the most part although he refused to stay put..lol Then transported from Georgiana ON Canada to Detroit Michigan in one 24 hour period and was handed off to 4 different sets of people, then spent the night with another family who took him on a plane from Detroit to Minneapolis Minnesota, had a 3 hour lay over , flew with him again from Minnesota to Lincoln NE and then again handed off to another set of ladies who drove him to a meet up point to us and we drove him another hour to our house. Once we got him home he got to meet 17 strange cats and a very cat friendly and very large drooler! So his 400 and 500s are absolutely no surprise here. That is mostly stress talking, the more he relaxes and settles into his new home and realizes he is home the lower and lower I expect his numbers to go. Right now for him at least even though he isn't in a cage at the clinic I might as well be looking at vet stress numbers because he doesn't know me he doesn't know my critters and he certainly at this point has no reason to love or trust me. I'm just the crazy lady that pokes his ears and stabs him with needles. But I seem nice enough because I give him yummy food, cuddles and even let him sleep in the bed.

Max at least knows and loves you, so once you get him home he will relax much faster than my Quillan will, but both boys will get regulated and will become healthy and happy fellows just we need to both bring them to that point slowly and gently so they can feel their best through the whole process.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

[Squalliesmom]

I would be quite concerned about the swollen, hard belly and the lethargy! My recommendation would definitely be a trip to the vet to address those issues as soon as possible.

 

[Michal Golan]

So, I made the 180km r/t to the vet two days ago. she put him on the ultrasound machine (which was not a very good one) but it was clear that the swollen belly was not a result of free fluids... which was good. His bladder was large but also it seemed that he had an enlarged liver. However, apart from the high Glucose (385), everything else seemed to her good. I came home and found that BUN was on the high end (29), CA on the high end (11.1), NA+ on the law end (141), and TP on the high end (9.0). Also the NEU were on the high end and the LYM on the law end. The vet convinced me that I need to start giving him insulin and she gave me a prescription. I found out that she gave me: Humulin NPH which I found out was a human insulin not good for cats. I called her up and she said that she knew PZI was the best one but it was not available at the pharmacy... so now I am searching for the best insulin to give him that is also available. any suggestions?

 

[Sharon14]

Hi Michal, many here use the human insulins Lantus or Levemir. Both are excellent choices, and I would think they would be available in your part of the world.