Jeddie - 54, 58 at +4, +5

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

That's what I get for shooting a full dose on 118.

Now, those are fine numbers - I mean safe ones - but I don't want to leave until he is either rising or past about +7. Of course, I was going to go do some errands...

Testing again in about 15-20 mins. We just had a big cuddle and he is sleeping. He is so funny, and I tell him "You're so funny", he dips his head, flops over and rubs his ear with his left paw and if I stop patting him, he gets up and goes over to my hand and rubs his face on it. Then he flops over again... he even knows when I am only using one hand to pat him and will look for the other one, "Hey, I know you have TWO hands, where's the other one? And why isn't it patting me or rubbing my belly? Huh?"

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

69 at +6

 

[pamela and tigger]

That's what I get for shooting a full dose on 118.

I wonder if that is true or not. You did reduce on a similar number back on the 31st (and other times) and he still shoots back up there the following cycle. So I wonder is it a bounce these times or not enough insulin? But then you shot 0.5 again that night so maybe his shed was emptied. But then on the 24th you shot the full dose on that number and lowered it the next morning and he shot back up there again, so a bounce or not enough insulin again? Maybe try lowering your cutoff so you are shooting the full dose more consistently so you can identify a pattern?

Now, those are fine numbers - I mean safe ones - but I don't want to leave until he is either rising or past about +7. Of course, I was going to go do some errands...

I don't blame you I wouldn't want to leave either.

Testing again in about 15-20 mins. We just had a big cuddle and he is sleeping. He is so funny, and I tell him "You're so funny", he dips his head, flops over and rubs his ear with his left paw and if I stop patting him, he gets up and goes over to my hand and rubs his face on it. Then he flops over again... he even knows when I am only using one hand to pat him and will look for the other one, "Hey, I know you have TWO hands, where's the other one? And why isn't it patting me or rubbing my belly? Huh?"

He is so sweet.

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Pamela, I wasn't thinking "bounce" when I posted - just that he was hanging in rather low numbers for me to leave just then. I did need to see what would happen shooting his full dose on that PS.

Unfortunately, he was 258 tonight, so that seems to be a bounce to me. I shoot the .6u to bring him down, but if he is low 100s again tomorrow I will drop him to .5u.

He really doesn't seem to be consistent on how he reacts. Sometimes he stays low and doesn't bounce, other times he does. So I am not sure if he just needs to be used to the low numbers or what. I do know that HE thinks he doesn't need to be tested and get a shot when he is below about 125 or has dropped below about 70 during the cycle. Is is much more fussy about the whole process. Beau was never like that. He was exactly the same whether he was 35 or 350.

 

[Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin]

Personality-wise I think there's a good chance there's some Maine Coon in his genes because they are very people oriented and interact with us more than most cats. There is communication which goes beyond most cat to human communication. I've not had another cat which head butts and gives kisses, only Gandalf. He also "talks," another Maine Coon trait. Kind of like Siamese, but my impression of Siamese is they just like to be annoying. Maine Coon's are too cute to be annoying.

Not sure what to tell you about shooting on low numbers, other than data proves he's fine.

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

I came to the conclusion a few months ago that he is part MC. Once his coat started to really fill out it was more obvious. He talks a little - more than my others, but not as much as my Tortie-Tabby or a part Siamese I had in the past. The part Siamese carried on conversations with people. And she was never annoying! But Jeddie chirps a lot and he purrs a ton!

While the data says he is safe to shoot at lower numbers, his body seems to think otherwise. I have to either hope that he can get used to the lows, or find a balance that won't send him bouncing higher. I am with Melissa on that - no sense in finding a lovely nadir in the 50s or 60s if it sends him 140 points higher at the next PS than he was at the "low" PS.

 

[Melissa&Paul-Kyle]

Unfortunately, he was 258 tonight, so that seems to be a bounce to me. I shoot the .6u to bring him down, but if he is low 100s again tomorrow I will drop him to .5u.

We were writitng about my confusion of you and Vicky shooting lev as if it were a short duration insulin a few days back...not to pester- just trying to understand further- this, what you wrote above, is what I am talking about..... you shoot a higher dose than AM's to bring the PM dose down, and then if tomorrow is lower again you'll drop the dose again.

That is 3 changes in 3 cycles.

worth noting- according to the "shed theory", your .6 on last nights high number won't see its effect until tonight or later....

THAT is shooting like short term insulin to me...from my understanding of lev, you would continue to shoot the original dose that brought him down so far until "liver training" or whatever has taken place.

And you would do curves to find out the whole picture, not just adjust dose on one number...

And also, that high PS, according to the shed theory, would be related to a dose the day before, not the dose from that morning.

DO you see why I am confused? :?

Of course, with PK, I alter dose immediately now b/c otherwise he continues to bounce for days until I DO lower the dose...I've just learned this over time by leaving the dose as suggested and testing with him and trying the "liver training"...doesn't jive with PK's way of doing things...many tests, altering feeding times and more to find that out, though.

I am with Melissa on that - no sense in finding a lovely nadir in the 50s or 60s if it sends him 140 points higher at the next PS than he was at the "low" PS.

actually, with PK he can have a peak/PS ( one in the same for Paul-Kyle) of 60's and then within 2 HOURS he will shoot up to 300's + after eating, but generally returns to the low PS by the end of the cycle.

However, he can have a PS/peak of 150 and still only hit that 300 mark...then return to that 150 again.

I prefer the difference between 150 and 300 to the difference between 60 and 300....so I shoot Paul a little lower dose than most here would to achieve a gentler curve.

So...in a nutshell, if Jeddie were my boy, I would NOT have gone to the .6 to drive the PS down, nor would I have kept the .5 original dose, I would have gone to .4 so the lowest low would be less likley in the next few cycles so the bounces would be less likely.

Not sure if any of that makes any sense to you...but if not, we are even ;-) , b/c I still don't understand the reacting in PM dose to AM results...not with Jeddie anyway.

In any case, my hope is that Jeddies numbers even out...wouldn't it be ironic of Jeddie was actually a rule follower and working the Tilly Protocol to the word really worked for him! ( :lol: after all that your Beau and my PK have put us through with beating to their own drum, THAT would be worth LOL! )

 

[Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin]

Melissa, I'll let Sheila answer you for her reasons on those dose changes. Thank you for asking during a particular incidence. I understand what you mean now.

My explanation is that it's seeing the forest for the trees. We make the immediate changes because we're going by past experience, so even though the immediate numbers aren't reflecting the change yet, we know that if we dose XX, we're going to get YY results in a few cycles. At least that's why I do it.

You can work it this way if you're confident you're at about the right dose. Call it fine tuning if you will. And it's also seeing/knowing when the changes reflect in numbers, Gandalf is a fairly quick turn around, usually within 2 cycles. ECID, so some like PK would not benefit from this constant bouncing around.

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Melissa, I think when you are dealing with a bounce, the effect is from the last, say, 6 hours. confused_cat The body's response to a low is not based on what type of insulin brought it low - doesn't care - it just releases stored glucose to cope with it. When I see that happening I know it is because the BG dropped too low for his body's comfort level, so a dose adjustment is needed. This is just as if you see a <50 BG and reduce the dose (or <40, whatever Tilly says. I don't go by Tilly :shock: ).

My thinking, however, is that the bounce lands him in higher numbers and he needs the fuller shed to deal with them over the next 12 hours, once the BG comes down - at the next PS or the one after - THEN I can reduce the dose and let the shed deplete a bit in the hopes of evening out the low and preventing a bounce to higher numbers.

I made no changes to his dose until this am when he was 119 and I shot .5u. He has been on .6u for a while now as his "full" dose. So, not three changes in as many cycles. Only one considered :roll: change for the 3rd cycle (24 hrs later) starting after the one he went low on. And, while I didn't do a "curve", I think I got plenty of numbers to make the decision. It wasn't based on just a PS number.

Since I can't curve, or even get spot checks, every cycle I do have to be able to make a decision, based on a PS, as to whether he will be ok during the cycle on a full dose or needs a decrease. I am trying to find the low cut off for that. Previously, I dropped the dose on too high of a low PS ohmygod_smile (how's that for confusion?).

BTW, I knew he was going to be low again this am, because he put up quite a fuss cat(2)_steam over being tested.