Jaxa (Dosing advice, please)

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Maybe she got some of it, her +3 was a number that wouldn't be out of place on any other night. She has been playing all evening, has eaten (she grazes) four times since her PMPS now, and has been very frisky and social so she must be feeling pretty good.
 
AMPS not so bad, shot went better than last night and she seems fine still. Playing with her mouse next to me in bed this morning, while I was trying to sleep. I made sure to put the dog food up last night though.
 
Not too bad tonight, got a nice blue at her +3, and not too sharp of a drop so I'm not worried about nadir in two hours. She keeps trying to get me to go to bed so she can walk on me though.
 
Not unhappy with her numbers these last several days; most days I feel like we are going in the right direction at least. I look forward to seeing what tomorrow is like after not going to the vet for the first time in a couple weeks. Both of the last Fridays she was super high at the Vet for the nadir test, and then seemed to bounce and go really low for her evening nadir. I want to see what her numbers will be without the stress of two car rides and being in a kennel all day on a Friday, and then we will get some extra +tests this weekend like we've been doing lately. I am wondering if we should stay at the 3.75u or go up to 4u and see what happens this weekend.

She has seemed to feel really good this week; more social (leaving her room in the evening), playing, good appetite, seeking attention. I hope that means good things for her health too.
 
I think you could raise it to 4 on a day you can monitor. I wouldn't do that until you can monitor though...

Yes, her acting like she feels good is good! Remember she's more than just a number...her behavior and how she feels is as important as her BG.
 
Lately it seems her evening #s are better than her morning #s; so I'm wondering if I should go up to 4 on both shots, or just one (and which one would be best)?

*I've been trying to test ketones whenever I see a chance; I am hoping to stay on top of it and get the practice now when she doesn't show any signs. Adding those to my spreadsheet as well.
 
Glassgoblin said:
Lately it seems her evening #s are better than her morning #s; so I'm wondering if I should go up to 4 on both shots, or just one (and which one would be best)?

*I've been trying to test ketones whenever I see a chance; I am hoping to stay on top of it and get the practice now when she doesn't show any signs. Adding those to my spreadsheet as well.
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I'd do a curve this weekend before changing anything. Hurray for ketone testing! :smuggrin:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'd do a curve this weekend before changing anything. Hurray for ketone testing! :smuggrin:
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I'll be getting some extra testing done, though might miss a +3 or so due to errands to run outside of the home tomorrow.

Weird thing about tonight; her PMPS and +3 were exactly the same numbers we got on Wednesday. Exactly.
 
I kept it at 3.75 today since I was out of the house quite a bit, but got a +6 and just got a +3, strangely flat numbers at each test. Tomorrow I'll bump to 4u and get a +3 and +6 after the AM shot, and +3 after the PM shot, play it by ear if more is needed.
 
I wish her PMPS was a little lower- had to poke her several times to get enough blood to test- had two e-7 error strips and it took us an extra 10 minutes. Poked myself pretty good too. I think some nights when she is really hungry she is harder to test because she is focused on getting to the food dish that is put up.
 
Glassgoblin said:
I wish her PMPS was a little lower- had to poke her several times to get enough blood to test- had two e-7 error strips and it took us an extra 10 minutes. Poked myself pretty good too. I think some nights when she is really hungry she is harder to test because she is focused on getting to the food dish that is put up.
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She could be on her way up into a bounce after the blues. If she's really hungry and getting wiggly you could let her eat a teaspoon or two of her food to take the edge off and then test immediately. It takes around 20+ minutes before food is in the bloodstream to affect BG.
 
What a nice cycle today! I second the suggestion to give a little food when they are antsy before the test. Once Sam has had a little snack, he'll often settle down for me to test, and then I can give him the rest of his food to eat. Hopefully it will work for Jaxa as well.

One note about an earlier post - you said you massage the area after the shot. You may have just meant that you check through the fur area, but I just wanted to make sure: I've read that it's best to not bother the actual injection site as the insulin is fragile. I'm not sure how much of an impact it could really have to move it around, but better safe than sorry. :)
 
The +3 tonight is frustrating me. I tested and got 361 which worried me, so tested again ten minutes later and got 188. That large of a difference seemed odd so I tested a third time and got 281. That seems like it makes the most sense for her typical tests, but I don't want to poke her again to check. We are past our usual bedtime and have to work super early. I have to strangle the autocorrect on this stupid kindle first though.
 
Djamila said:
What a nice cycle today! I second the suggestion to give a little food when they are antsy before the test. Once Sam has had a little snack, he'll often settle down for me to test, and then I can give him the rest of his food to eat. Hopefully it will work for Jaxa as well.

One note about an earlier post - you said you massage the area after the shot. You may have just meant that you check through the fur area, but I just wanted to make sure: I've read that it's best to not bother the actual injection site as the insulin is fragile. I'm not sure how much of an impact it could really have to move it around, but better safe than sorry. :)
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I don't rub her after the shot, it is more like petting to feel for wetness but I do both sides of her body each time. I want to have her used to being touched while eating so she doesn't get tense when I am giving the shot. If that makes sense?
 
Wow, those are big differences in the reading. I don't blame you for not wanting to test a 4th time. Regardless of which number is correct, she's in a safe enough range you can go to sleep. I'd probably say to put the 281 on your spreadsheet, and then in the notes put the other two numbers since you think that one is most typical for her.
 
I feel like our pre-shoots are going up again, but it is just the last couple days that we've gone to 4u. Is it typical for numbers to go up and then settle again?
 
Glassgoblin said:
I feel like our pre-shoots are going up again, but it is just the last couple days that we've gone to 4u. Is it typical for numbers to go up and then settle again?
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Numbers can do a lot of wonky things unfortunately. Any extras you can get on a work day (eg. just coming home from work and also evening) will fill in the picture. I think after today you could try a 0.25 u increase. She's a bouncer and they can be so challenging! I always find it better to put more weight on the "between the PSs" BGs rather than the PSs, especially in a bouncy kitty. The PSs can often be elevated from their overreaction to the cycle's lows. High and flat between PSs is usually from bouncing off previous cycles' lows assuming the dose is high enough (or near high enough).
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Numbers can do a lot of wonky things unfortunately. Any extras you can get on a work day (eg. just coming home from work and also evening) will fill in the picture. I think after today you could try a 0.25 u increase. She's a bouncer and they can be so challenging! I always find it better to put more weight on the "between the PSs" BGs rather than the PSs, especially in a bouncy kitty. The PSs can often be elevated from their overreaction to the cycle's lows. High and flat between PSs is usually from bouncing off previous cycles' lows assuming the dose is high enough (or near high enough).
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I think I will wait for the weekend to increase; she was kinda high tonight too which is a little disappointing after we had such nice numbers for a while. She seems to feel fine though; lots of playing and today was concerned over the puppy (who was spayed yesterday and came home this morning). B12 arrived today; will wait until morning to give so we can stick to a schedule.
 
Glassgoblin said:
I think I will wait for the weekend to increase; she was kinda high tonight too which is a little disappointing after we had such nice numbers for a while. She seems to feel fine though; lots of playing and today was concerned over the puppy (who was spayed yesterday and came home this morning). B12 arrived today; will wait until morning to give so we can stick to a schedule.
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Poor puppy! :(
 
The puppy is fine; already energetic. She and Jaxa have been smelling each other a lot more in the last few days, without the usual jumping (puppy) and hissing (Jaxa).

I am looking at our latest numbers and wondering about the suggested increase to 4.25; her evening numbers tend to be lower and then she gets a little higher in the morning for her AMPS. So I'm not sure if I should increase on both shots or just one. My Vet was having me increase the AM shots before I increased the PM shots, but he wanted whole units each time so we went fast.

Waiting til the weekend when I can watch her more closely and do some extra daytime testing. I hate not knowing her nadir in the daytime; though my mother suggested that she should learn how in case the cat is acting odd (she didn't seem to want to just do a regular testing schedule though- working on that).
 
Glassgoblin said:
The puppy is fine; already energetic. She and Jaxa have been smelling each other a lot more in the last few days, without the usual jumping (puppy) and hissing (Jaxa).

I am looking at our latest numbers and wondering about the suggested increase to 4.25; her evening numbers tend to be lower and then she gets a little higher in the morning for her AMPS. So I'm not sure if I should increase on both shots or just one. My Vet was having me increase the AM shots before I increased the PM shots, but he wanted whole units each time so we went fast.

Waiting til the weekend when I can watch her more closely and do some extra daytime testing. I hate not knowing her nadir in the daytime; though my mother suggested that she should learn how in case the cat is acting odd (she didn't seem to want to just do a regular testing schedule though- working on that).
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You already have curve numbers at the 4 u dose from 15 Apr. You could try a boost to 4.25 u in the AM tomorrow and leave PM at 4 u. It would be early after the AM increase but you could do a daytime curve on Sunday. OR you could experiment with dropping the PM dose to 3.75 u tonight, leaving the AM dose at 4 u and do a curve on the weekend.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You already have curve numbers at the 4 u dose from 15 Apr. You could try a boost to 4.25 u in the AM tomorrow and leave PM at 4 u. It would be early after the AM increase but you could do a daytime curve on Sunday. OR you could experiment with dropping the PM dose to 3.75 u tonight, leaving the AM dose at 4 u and do a curve on the weekend.
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We did go to 4.25 this morning; she was on the high side of her semi-regular numbers; of course I was laying in bed wishing for fifteen more minutes of sleep while she was rolling around and meowing at her current favorite toy at the foot of the bed so she feels fine. She has been eating really well lately (at least the recommended amount if not more of the YA) and I wonder if the bisque is part of the reason- it can't be so much carb in the tsp she gets daily, but maybe it makes her hungrier? I don't know. Trying to stay on top of the dog food theft too, but I think I miss it sometimes when the dog leaves bits on the floor in other rooms.
 
You'd be amazed what even a small amount of high carb food can do to our fragile kitties. If you can try a few days without the bisque and see if it makes a difference it might be worth trying. Oh wait....is that how you're giving the zobaline? Will Jaxa eat any freeze-dried treats? If so, I use freeze dried chicken or salmon to give meds - crush them up, add the meds, add a tiny bit of water, and stir together into sort of a paste - the kitties gobble it right up!

I can understand wanting 15 more minutes of sleep. That insulin alarm (a.k.a. Sam's wailing cries of starvation) is hard to ignore! I went straight back to bed this morning and thoroughly enjoyed an extra hour of sleep!

Hope that dose increase helps today!
 
Djamila said:
You'd be amazed what even a small amount of high carb food can do to our fragile kitties. If you can try a few days without the bisque and see if it makes a difference it might be worth trying. Oh wait....is that how you're giving the zobaline? Will Jaxa eat any freeze-dried treats? If so, I use freeze dried chicken or salmon to give meds - crush them up, add the meds, add a tiny bit of water, and stir together into sort of a paste - the kitties gobble it right up!

I can understand wanting 15 more minutes of sleep. That insulin alarm (a.k.a. Sam's wailing cries of starvation) is hard to ignore! I went straight back to bed this morning and thoroughly enjoyed an extra hour of sleep!

Hope that dose increase helps today!
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I've tried some freeze dried treats- she absolutely refused the tuna ones, the chicken/catnip one smells good to her but she doesn't seem to actually eat any, and the liver ones I break up a little but she mostly gets them when I've sprinkled the dust over her kibble. I did get some unsweetened kefir today, so see if she would try it, but the tsp I put out is still sitting there two hours later. She is very fussy. Saved some tuna water to try tomorrow, and can see if that will make a difference. I was hoping for some blues today, but her +4 and +6 where mid-200's still. I jabbed myself really good too, but I was at 107. Had to be sure I didn't accidentally contaminate her test.
 
The tuna water wasn't a huge hit- she had half of what I gave her (less than a Tbsp). I will try crushing and adding water to the liver treats, and if that doesn't work will open one of the weruvia cans and give her some of the broth (she won't eat the chunks even when I puree them).

I think I will look into finding a recipe for something like the bisque that I can make at home, without the carb content. She really likes the texture/consistency, and thinking out the pate canned food hasn't quite met her standards in the past. I might try egg yolk or other things I can find too, in case those can tempt her.

Her numbers have been pretty consistent this weekend- but not going very low even in the middle of the cycle (at least not during the day when I've checked). So it doesn't look like she is bouncing, but I had hoped for a little more movement on her numbers.
 
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My cats won't eat weruva either. Not even the broth.

They aren't really fans of the liver treats but they love the Cat-Man-Do freeze dried chicken and the plain freeze dried salmon too. They also love bonito flakes - you can buy them as a cat treat, but the cheaper option is the human bonito flakes sold in asian grocery stores or on Amazon.

I'm a fan of homemade food - your idea to make a bisque-like food might work! If you want to make it a complete food, there is a supplement powder you can get at foodfurlife.com (they also sell egg yolk powder), or recipes for homemade food at catinfo.org. Or if you're making it just as a snack, none of that matters since they can get a small portion of their food without all the supplements and still be fine!

Wouldn't it be nice if our babies weren't so fussy!?!?!?
 
Djamila said:
My cats won't eat weruva either. Not even the broth.

They aren't really fans of the liver treats but they love the Cat-Man-Do freeze dried chicken and the plain freeze dried salmon too. They also love bonito flakes - you can buy them as a cat treat, but the cheaper option is the human bonito flakes sold in asian grocery stores or on Amazon.

I'm a fan of homemade food - your idea to make a bisque-like food might work! If you want to make it a complete food, there is a supplement powder you can get at foodfurlife.com (they also sell egg yolk powder), or recipes for homemade food at catinfo.org. Or if you're making it just as a snack, none of that matters since they can get a small portion of their food without all the supplements and still be fine!

Wouldn't it be nice if our babies weren't so fussy!?!?!?
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I did try turning some of the duck liver to dust and added hot water- she ate it just like that (except for the more chunky pieces- I'll use my mortar and pestle next time). That was a trial run pre-vitamin, but will try again tomorrow with the b12.

Jaxa is very fussy. I had gotten a bag of the Cat-man-Do bonito and she acted like it was the most revolting thing she had ever smelled, so I gave the bag to the shelter. Pumpkin (organic) was once suggested for her litter issues a few months ago, and she hated that. She had a week where she loved and only would eat seafood flavors and then suddenly hated it and refused anything fishy.

We do make homemade dog treats with chicken livers, so I am thinking about making a little liver puree with a few extras to give just a dollop at a time with the vitamin. I cooked professionally for people for eleven years and they can be picky, so I hope I can make something my kitty will eat for a few days at least.
 
Does she like fortiflora? I have one cat that would eat a shoe if I sprinkled that on top first, and another cat who won't touch it. Same with nutritional yeast. That's been working well as a flavor topper for one of my kitties, plus it's got B vitamins so it's actually good for him. And it's yummy on popcorn for us humans!

If you do a search for "liver shake" there is a recipe around here somewhere that people swear by when a kitty isn't eating well, but I'm sure you could use it just as a treat/medicine conveyance too.
 
Djamila said:
Does she like fortiflora? I have one cat that would eat a shoe if I sprinkled that on top first, and another cat who won't touch it. Same with nutritional yeast. That's been working well as a flavor topper for one of my kitties, plus it's got B vitamins so it's actually good for him. And it's yummy on popcorn for us humans!

If you do a search for "liver shake" there is a recipe around here somewhere that people swear by when a kitty isn't eating well, but I'm sure you could use it just as a treat/medicine conveyance too.
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The vet gave us several packets of fortiflora last November when she was starting to get sick from pancreatitis, but she wouldn't touch it after getting sicker while eating it (she won't touch her food from back then either). I do have nutritional yeast flakes, but hadn't tried that before for the kitty. She had been getting some probiotics, but after the diabetes diagnosis I put all of those supplements on hold until I could be sure they were safe (and the dog ended up eating her chews). The slippery elm was a mix that included marshmallow root (I've read not to give that to diabetics), and the CBD oil hasn't been needed - and she loathed the dropper so we put that on hold. I would like to get her on a probiotic or some kind of digestive/bowel friendly supplement again but will probably leave it at the B12 for the moment until she gets used to that first, then gradually introduce other things. It's too bad that she didn't want to try the kefir, I've read that it can be really good for cats and dogs.
 
Tried the tuna water this morning and added a little Dr. Elsey's canned, but she barely touched it. Will leave it out while I'm at work (added a touch of water) and see if she finished; she was licking her lips a lot after and I'm hoping it was the food and cleaning and not nausea returning. I've been worried about a flare happening in the middle of all this since hse was diagnosed, and was so hoping not to have to start pills again. Will see how the day goes I guess.
 
Glassgoblin said:
Tried the tuna water this morning and added a little Dr. Elsey's canned, but she barely touched it. Will leave it out while I'm at work (added a touch of water) and see if she finished; she was licking her lips a lot after and I'm hoping it was the food and cleaning and not nausea returning. I've been worried about a flare happening in the middle of all this since hse was diagnosed, and was so hoping not to have to start pills again. Will see how the day goes I guess.
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Good luck! :)
 
She ended up not eating the rest of the Dr. Elsey's/B12 mix, so I guess that is a food she doesn't really want (she did try some of it first). Went back to the bisque this morning and she ate it all.

I know I don't have many days on each of the dosages, but sometimes it looks like as I raise the dosage her numbers go up too- the 3.75u was getting some decent numbers compared to right now when we are getting some of the highest numbers we've had so far. I just don't know what that means, or if it is just typical for starting a new dosage. We are having several very long days this week - leaving early for work today, tomorrow, Thursday, so we can't screw around too much with changing things yet. Almost finished with our first bottle of insulin and we passed the 100 needles mark a few days ago.
 
Leave the changes for a time when you have a bit more breathing room. Those blues and greens can come and go so don't put a lot of weight on them. No recent reds and that's something.

Some kitties develop glucose toxicity from being in higher numbers more readily than other kitties. The way around that is careful 0.25 u increases and not lingering too long at an ineffective dose. You have to work within your own schedule though.
 
You did your initial increases pretty quickly. You could try lowering the dose a little and working your way back up again. If you do that though, you'll want to keep a very close eye on ketones, and do the 0.25u increases every 3-4 cycles with no delay. You'll also need to do some middle of the night tests to keep an eye on things. Jaxa doesn't bounce much, so it's possible that she's sneaking down into the greens during the night and you're just not seeing it because, you know, sleep. ;) If you look at the cycles where she went green, she dropped later in the cycle than you usually test, and then in the morning was right back to a perfectly normal-for-her number with no sign that there had been a lower number in there.
 
Furshot tonight so we might get into the reds; there is a chicken running around my backyard, Jaxa managed to tip half her litter box onto the floor, and now a furshot. It has not been a good day.
 
Ah! That does sound like a terrible day!

Well furshots happen...we've ALL done them (and then there are people like me who not only did furshots, but also tested, fed, prepared the shot...then left it sitting on the table and went to work without giving the shot. Not once, but TWICE!). The good news about a furshot is that you can get some rest and take some time off testing. :)
 
I know we had a furshot, my fingers were very wet and had that distinctive smell of insulin, but the weird thing is- both times this has happened (so far) her numbers still went down at the +3 and her next AMPS was still lower than the day before. Is it all just random? I know there is a variance on testing, but then it all seems kinda meaningless if she can get those numbers with or without her shot.
 
Because Prozinc has a 10-14 hour duration in most cats, the PS numbers in some cats won't vary much. For example, if your cat as around ten hours of duration, then the PS numbers every day are not insulin influenced. In that case, the PS number will be around the same regardless of the fur shot. However, if your cat has 14 hours of duration and you miss a shot, then the PS number would be higher than normal after a missed shot. That's why the mid-cycle numbers are so important. That's where the impact of the insulin is really seen.

You can really see the impact of the fur shot in the +3 that is about 100 points higher than the previous one, and if you had kept testing through the cycle, you would have likely seen a relatively flat curve - slightly higher after the food (your +3) and then gradually returning to his normal range.

The lower AMPS, while lower than many of his numbers, isn't inconsistent with his typical range (you had the exact same number on a PMPS a few days ago).

So not meaningless. Although I can understand that feeling! Just remember that it's the mid-cycles that tell you if the insulin is working, not the PS numbers.
 
What do you do about sabotage? Food was up at usual time this afternoon, but then an hour later my mother gave Jaxa friskies treats, because she was giving some to the dog. So I tested at our usual time and she was at 399! I did give the usual dose, as she is usually in the 300s anyway, but should I have waited another hour? Now I have to wonder if she has done this other times when I wasn't around. She knows better, I've told her so many times no treats. Argh! So mad right now.
 
Glassgoblin said:
What do you do about sabotage? Food was up at usual time this afternoon, but then an hour later my mother gave Jaxa friskies treats, because she was giving some to the dog. So I tested at our usual time and she was at 399! I did give the usual dose, as she is usually in the 300s anyway, but should I have waited another hour? Now I have to wonder if she has done this other times when I wasn't around. She knows better, I've told her so many times no treats. Argh! So mad right now.
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Very annoying! Would your mom agree to giving YA treats or freeze dried meat treats instead?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Very annoying! Would your mom agree to giving YA treats or freeze dried meat treats instead?
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I've been trying, but it is a matter of convenience- she takes a handful of treats out and just gives each animal a pile. I've also tried to explain that Jaxa doesn't need to get something just because the dog is getting something. She is also supposed to be on a weight-loss trend, and so I am a bit stingy with the good treats too. This is why our last dog was about 10lbs too fat as well. I am the no food from my plate type, and she shares half her meals with her dog.
 
I was going to make the same suggestion as Kris - get some good treats for both the pup and Jaxa so that no matter what treats mom grabs, they won’t hurt anything.

My mom would totally do that! Lord knows she does it with my dad already (he has diabetes too and she's always sneaking him carbs - as if his pancreas isn't going to notice or something! :rolleyes:)
 
And we are high this morning too (red), bouncing or just going up. Will jump to 4.25u tonight I think, and try to get more tests. And try to chill out because these higher numbers freak me out a little.

*I did order another bag of YA ZeroTruCarnivore treats, which are listed for cats, dogs and ferrets, so I can keep that bag by the regular treats the dog gets. I want to look at my local place again this week to see their freeze-dried treat options too.
 
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