Java, elder cat

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lois and Java said:
He really does not feel well this morning. He threw up several times, and had a long pee in the Box.
He wanted to go outside and he sat in his favorite places, which was encouraging. Then he disappeared and I found him hunkering down between the compost box and the fence. Didn't look like a good thing.
I don't think he has any food in his stomach now after this morning's insulin. He's turning his head away from water and food. His BG at 2.25 is 573, down from 676.
Well, he's safe he's warm he's dry. I'm going to yoga, got to keep doing the things that keep me sane.
Click to expand...
Yes, we do need to stay sane. Are you testing his urine for ketones? It's a good thing to do regularly especially when numbers are high.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Yes, we do need to stay sane. Are you testing his urine for ketones? It's a good thing to do regularly especially when numbers are high.
Click to expand...
He had about a tablespoon of FF about 30 minutes ago, then wanted to go outside and drink rain water. His BG is now 353.
Have not been testing for ketones, I'll get it set up to collect. What do you do if there are ketones?
 
He's eaten another tablespoon or of FF. He really wants to go outside in the rain. I had to use the piller to get Zobaline split into two pill Pockets down his gullet.
Edit, he's looking and acting normal except that's he's singularly focused on willing the door to open and let him go outside , which is not going to happen.
 
Last edited:
If you get a reading above trace, definitely head straight to the vet. I think testing for ketones would be good right now...if he's not eating, that can be a sign.
 
Rachel said:
If you get a reading above trace, definitely head straight to the vet. I think testing for ketones would be good right now...if he's not eating, that can be a sign.
Click to expand...
He's acting pretty normal now luckily.
He's eaten more, and was diverted from monomaniacal focus on going outside by a dish of water collected from rainwater. Neither Lily nor Java have peed since this morning's box cleaning; since Lily is the control normal cat, I'm not stressing about that, yet.
He's eating more FF as I speak. I'm trapped with a warm Lily on my lap but will be moving her in about 10 mins. so I can test his BG again.
P.S. I'm set up to grab some urine the next time he heads for litter box.
 
Hi Lois,

I'm glad he acting normal right now. I suggest continuing the lower dose for another day or two and if his numbers don't improve then it's very likely that wasn't the solution to the high numbers. He might be building some insulin resistance from being high quite a bit and the only way through that is to continue careful increases. Just thinking ahead.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Hi Lois,

I'm glad he acting normal right now. I suggest continuing the lower dose for another day or two and if his numbers don't improve then it's very likely that wasn't the solution to the high numbers. He might be building some insulin resistance from being high quite a bit and the only way through that is to continue careful increases. Just thinking ahead.
Click to expand...
I wondered about that, insulin resistance. The vet had commented that Java's quick and strong reactions to a little bit of insulin was an indication of insulin deficiency, not insulin resistance, and with these high numbers being a change from that, I was wondering if that what was going on.

No wonder he feels better. He's 183 at + 10. I almost gave him more FF, which I think he would eat, but am in the 2-hour no carb window.

My fingers are crossed that this stays. I can't explain what happened this morning. It's possible he felt really crappy from the high BG and drank way too much water, which made him barf, which made him feel terrible.

He usually feels better after Sub-Q fluids. I judged it to be too much during the week or ten days that I gave him bupe and Gabapentin. If I could do it over, I'd reverse that, subq yes, and zero of the other.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Hi Lois,

I'm glad he acting normal right now. I suggest continuing the lower dose for another day or two and if his numbers don't improve then it's very likely that wasn't the solution to the high numbers. He might be building some insulin resistance from being high quite a bit and the only way through that is to continue careful increases. Just thinking ahead.
Click to expand...
He's chowing down on some YA right now. I anticipate that in 1.5 hours that his BG will go over 200, which I think is the threshold to shoot. I've been through this before, but I always need to look it up to be sure. If it's close to 200, wait 20 minutes, test again, see if it goes up before shooting? Off to look it up.
His breath smells appalling. I wish he'd pee so I can test for ketones, and, knock wood, eliminate dka as a possibility.
 
Wow, Gabapentin Fiasco day was only 9 days ago. It seems like it was two or three weeks ago. It's like doing Plank in yoga. 2 minutes of plank feels like 10 minutes. All the testing and monitoring stretches out the time.
Speaking of time, happy Equinox everyone!
In my second yoga class today, we had a local musician playing the didgeridoo and the flute. I'm guessing that's your "only in California" story for the day.
 
Rachel said:
You got it! Stall with no food then test to see where he's at if near 200.
Click to expand...
He's 203, and he's hungry, looking at me like where's my dish?
I feel quite confident that he'll eat FF, which will bring his numbers up. But I can't feed him now and see where it goes....
 
  • The proper sequence for dosing insulin is: Test/Feed/Shoot. In the beginning, if your cat’s BG is not up to at least 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, if your schedule allows, you can stall (without feeding) for 20+minutes, then retest the BG. You are looking for a number that is rising, not falling and up to 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}. If you stall once, but can’t do another round of stalling and your cat hasn’t reached a BG of 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, you’ll need to skip the dose and wait until the next cycle. NOTE: Because pet-specific meters (such as the AlphaTrak2) often read higher than human meters, you may want to adjust the NO-SHOOT number to 225 mg/dL {12.5 mmol/L} or even 250 mg/dL {14 mmol/L} This gives you an added margin of safety when using an AlphaTrak2 or other pet-specific meter.
 
Re Java and food. He nearly always wants to eat more FF 1-2 hrs after a shot. He eats a little bit pre-shot. A couple of these high# days, he ate voraciously 2 hrs after a shot.
I have to tamp down my desire to shoot and then feed.
E, f, s is designed to minimize the possibility of hypo, however.
Does anybody ever shoot and then feed?
 
He's at 233, just had YA, and while I think he would only have a little bit of FF right now, I feel pretty confident that he will eat more in an hour. I'm feeling like it's going to be okay to shoot a fat 1, soon, so I'm not up half the night.
 
Lois and Java said:
Re Java and food. He nearly always wants to eat more FF 1-2 hrs after a shot. He eats a little bit pre-shot. A couple of these high# days, he ate voraciously 2 hrs after a shot.
I have to tamp down my desire to shoot and then feed.
E, f, s is designed to minimize the possibility of hypo, however.
Does anybody ever shoot and then feed?
Click to expand...
No we don't advocate doing that because if your kitty doesn't eat after the dose (for any reason) he could drop too much. I like that blue and then the yellow. Maybe the lowered dose is helping after all. Keep on ...
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Can you test at +2 to see if he's dropping quite a bit? If you can, give a fat 1 u. Be prepared to set an alarm if the +2 test is showing that it will be an "active" cycle.

I'm heading off to bed. Will you be OK?
Click to expand...
Yes, I will be okay; that sounds like a good plan.
227 at +2, which is a good start. I'll be getting up to check though.
3am 368. It's all the FF slurry that he ate I think. Plus insulin Naturally wearing off
 
Last edited:
Is there an easy way on smart phone to go to the end? I'm not on computer, where I can go control+end, or control +home.

"If you encounter numbers under 50 on a human meter or under 69 on a pet meter, post on the PZI forum and Health to get advice. Start your thread with a 911 icon and a title like: HYPO NUMBERS HELP."

Just checking my numbers. Using AT meter, so, 69 or under. I'm at 165 at +3.5, with 2.5 hrs to go to approx nadir. I'll check then. He's had several small meals of FF, so, carbs.
 
I like what's going on with his numbers. Just when you think an experiment has failed (lowering the dose) they surprise you. Keep the fat 1 u. Don't stall after PS unless BG is under 200. Get a +2 test to see is he's starting to drop too fast and then a couple more in nadir range to see how low he goes.

Re smart phones: I only have a pay as you go dumb phone and I'm proud of it! :D
 
It's
Kris & Teasel said:
I like what's going on with his numbers. Just when you think an experiment has failed (lowering the dose) they surprise you. Keep the fat 1 u. Don't stall after PS unless BG is under 200. Get a +2 test to see is he's starting to drop too fast and then a couple more in nadir range to see how low he goes. :D
Click to expand...

As we would have expected by the 3 a.m. value, it's high this morning, but it's lower than yesterday so yay! If I push YA instead of FF after, say, 2-3 hrs post shot, well let's see.
He is up and raring to go out to the rain water. Sunny until early afternoon rain, so here we go. A new rule, Zobaline first.
 
Well, it's popped up to 571 at +9.
It was 144 at +5, then he asked for FF (by going to the FF locale) and here we are.

It's really tempting to shoot early just to get that down.

Something I've wondered about, that the vet mentioned, is that some cats are not on a 12-hour cycle. I wonder if Java is actually on an 8 hour cycle with insulin.

Another thing I'm wondering is re the FF. I usually make it into a watery slurry. I wonder if there's something about preparing it that way that concentrates the carbs that he ingests?

The ones I'm using are low carb, I'm going to take a look at the list and see which ones are really really low carb.
 
Java's so frail and bony. He's lost a lot of weight in the last couple of weeks. He's still doing his things, sleeping on his pillow or heating pad, going outside to drink water, sitting in his favorite spot on the hill outside. His world is smaller and smaller. It's starting to remind me of the months before my mother passed, when she had to move to assisted living from independent living/her little apartment.

He seems to feel better after subq fluids, which is tomorrow. Fingers crossed for him.
 
I like those glimpses of blue, Lois. I know it's hard to see your kitty aging but if he can enjoy some of his simple pleasures that's a good sign. It's possible that some of the difficulty keeping his BG stable is down to less efficient physiology from aging. We can only do our best in the circumstances. :bighug:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I like those glimpses of blue, Lois. I know it's hard to see your kitty aging but if he can enjoy some of his simple pleasures that's a good sign. It's possible that some of the difficulty keeping his BG stable is down to less efficient physiology from aging. We can only do our best in the circumstances. :bighug:
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's part of it, you're right
It's an appalling 634 this morning, which I'm sure it has to do with the amount of FF he ate yesterday. I chose to encourage him to eat it, given his weight loss of the last couple weeks. Sure enough, higher this morning.

I already shot a fat one, because I wanted to get some in him right away. My sense is that the PZI just doesn't last long enough. I need to study the SS longer, but I think it lasts about 10 hours, and then his BG just goes way up. Is there any way to make it stick around just a couple hours longer?
Is that why people switch to the other types of insulin? I've heard the phrase Depot insulin with Lantus, so that means it hangs around in the body longer? Are you having any better a time with bounces with teasel with Lantus?
 
I'm replying to my own post. Studying the spreadsheet, looks like it would be risky because there are times when he is low pre-shot.
Does anybody in this forum ever go with the every eight hours question mark every 10 hours? Is there a way to formulate it so it can last just a tiny bit longer?

He tripped going up the steep three steps outside and I helped him get up them ... then he jumped up on a bench and up onto the railing! The Wisteria just popped out 2 days ago.
 
Oh my gosh, it's been an awful day for him.
634 amps
549 at +4
555 at +8
I'd swear in court that wasn't a fur shot, I don't understand why it's so high.
From eating FF?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top