Java, elder cat

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Lois and Java

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HI, I'm relatively new, and moving my thread over here from the main health thread, because my second thread hit 3 pages. I've been very lucky to have Kris and Teasel mentoring me on dosing and charting. It's very frustrating at times!
 
You deserve them. :)
Agree.

So I went to my one hour class, and then went directly to my vet to ask for pain meds for Java. I had to wait my turn, and then I came home. Someone, probably Java, threw up, and now his blood sugar is 81. He's eaten and I'm following him around trying to get him to eat more. Argh.

I have bupro- whatever it is for him because his hind legs look so painful from the neuropathy. The vet didn't mention any counter indications, does anybody here know anything that I should know?
 
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Agree.

So I went to my one hour class, and then went directly to my vet to ask for pain meds for Java. I had to wait my turn, and then I came home. Someone, probably Java, threw up, and now his blood sugar is 85. He's eaten and I'm following him around trying to get him to eat more. Argh. I have bupro- whatever it is for him because his hind legs look so painful from the neuropathy. The vet didn't mention any counter indications, does anybody here know anything that I should know?
Is it about +6 your time? If so this is a nice number even measured on a pet meter. I doubt if he'll go much lower so don't worry about feeding him if he isn't hungry. Try another test in an hour. Buprenorphine ia narcotic and, while good for pain, can make them somewhat dopey. He's a senior and like elderly people probably doesn't metabolize drugs well so a low-ish dose is in order.
 
Is it about +6 your time? If so this is a nice number even measured on a pet meter. I doubt if he'll go much lower so don't worry about feeding him if he isn't hungry. Try another test in an hour. Buprenorphine ia narcotic and, while good for pain, can make them somewhat dopey. He's a senior and like elderly people probably doesn't metabolize drugs well so a low-ish dose is in order.
It's now +7, 96. The vet meter danger # is 68, I'm pretty sure, yet any double digits below 90 scare me so.
The Rx says, .05 mls. inside lips twice daily. Quantity 3. Huh. 3 days worth? Because it's an opioid, don't give for long? I'll call tomorrow.
Edit, do a fat 1 again tonight?
Also, photo is Java and Lily after the low.
 
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It's now +7, 96. The vet meter danger # is 68, I'm pretty sure, yet any double digits below 90 scare me so.
The Rx says, .05 mls. inside lips twice daily. Quantity 3. Huh. 3 days worth? Because it's an opioid, don't give for long? I'll call tomorrow.
Edit, do a fat 1 again tonight?
Also, photo is Java and Lily after the low.
Those are lovely greens but you don't want to be much lower. If he can coast no lower than this the fat 1 u is a good dose. Try it again tonight but monitor at +2, +4 at least. Steer with higher carb food if he's getting lower than you like before your bedtime.

Is your buprenorphine already measured out in dosing syringes? Sometimes vets do that because they want to restrict the amount they put into clients' hands. Some people might want to try it on themselves ...
 
My vet gave me bupe in syringes too. Made it easy to give to my kitties was the good thing..

those greens surely are nice! They're right about where you want to be
 
Yep those greens are great! They are just about where you want to see them too!!
I freaked when I saw greens the first time, well every time really! Chuck hasn't seen them in a while though.
 
The bupe is not in syringes, and I gave him a dose as per vet Rx and suddenly am filled with dread. What if he prescribed too much, the way he did when he sent me home with PZI and syringes and Rx for 2 U bid. It's too late, I gave it to him. Think I'll ask in the main forum.
 
The bupe is not in syringes, and I gave him a dose as per vet Rx and suddenly am filled with dread. What if he prescribed too much, the way he did when he sent me home with PZI and syringes and Rx for 2 U bid. It's too late, I gave it to him. Think I'll ask in the main forum.
Did you measure out the 0.05 ml dose? I don't know what the ideal dose is... Main forum would be a good idea. If you measured out the dose yourself you at least have the comfort of knowing exactly how much you gave him.
 
He's about 10 lbs. So that would be a dose of .05 to .1. meaning his .05 is on the low end.

Oh *thank you", I get so stricken with fear and worry. He's actually eating FF now, I want him to eat more before bed. Seeing him be and do normal things doesn't necessarily calm me.
 
See, Lois - you have more late night company on this forum. Steph is a very knowledgeable doser and also a denizen of the night. :)

FYI - when I had bupe for Teasel (cystitis pain) the recommended dose made him dopey so the vet said to lower it.
 
Thank god for that! I was calm as could be and comfortable with the decision to give him bupe, and then all of a sudden, bam, Panic that I done the wrong thing and I was going to hurt him or even kill him accidentally because the opiate would suppress his breathing too much. ARGHH. I appreciate dosing info and hearing from other people about using bupe.

I'm using two meters for three tests, then switching to AT. I can't tell if the staff at my vet's office are failing to put my order in for HS strips when I ask for it, or if the HS people are just ridiculously slow. I like a HS meter a little bit more. I have a hundred AT strips so I'll be using it for a while.

AT reads 434, HS 392, AMPS.
 
Thank god for that! I was calm as could be and comfortable with the decision to give him bupe, and then all of a sudden, bam, Panic that I done the wrong thing and I was going to hurt him or even kill him accidentally because the opiate would suppress his breathing too much. ARGHH. I appreciate dosing info and hearing from other people about using bupe.

I'm using two meters for three tests, then switching to AT. I can't tell if the staff at my vet's office are failing to put my order in for HS strips when I ask for it, or if the HS people are just ridiculously slow. I like a HS meter a little bit more. I have a hundred AT strips so I'll be using it for a while.

AT reads 434, HS 392, AMPS.
Some thoughts:
  • it would help your helpers on this forum if you updated your SS as soon as you have new data
  • kitties pick up on our anxiety and it stresses them
  • choose one meter and use it - ignore the other(s) so you don't drive yourself nuts
  • the bupe is helping.
I know you're used to me being a bit "bossy" and will accept my input in the spirit in which it's intended. ;)
 
Hahaha Kris you're not bossy...you're organized!

I agree about choosing a meter and sticking to it. It'll help you and us...it really doesn't matter which though. What fever you prefer!
 
DO be bossy. I'm not one to pick up on subtleties; it's best to be blunt with me.
Unfortunately, I can't stick with the HS meter because I only have 2 strips left [zero now, this delayed posting], and I have 100 AT strips.
Point taken re updating the SS. I have a bad habit of writing something then going off to feed Java or something and letting it go at that without updating the SS. Need to update SS first.
Discovered last night how to look at other's SS correctly via phone - I was unable to see more than part of a sheet before - I have to do it through the app, duh. It doesn't matter on the laptop.
 
Pupils normal this morning. His BG is high, partly AT reads 30-50 points higher than HS meter, partly eating a lot of FF.
Stick with Fat 1, yes?
 
I hope the bupe is working. It helped one of my civvies in her final days with the pain, but it did make her a little loopy.
 
Is fine! Sorry for delayed response.
433 PMPS. I presume stick with fat 1. Java was looking for FF an hour ago, off to feed him.
 
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I went to talk to the vet about the bupe again.
I guess my question is, how do you know if your cat is in pain if it isn't something obvious like wincing or limping. And how do you tell if it's doing any good.
It took two days for his pupils go back to normal (bupe Friday, pupils norm Sunday), and he maybe seemed easier on his feet, but is that from the bupe, or from something else? Are the wobbly hind legs diabetic peripheral neuropathy, or is it the fact that 20 years old equals 97 in human years? vet thinks there's no way to tell, could be both or either.

Is it a good thing to give him this drug, or is it better to let his system take care of it on his own? Humans described it as an numbness, or prickling, or pain, and there's no way to know what he's feeling. His legs seem thinner, like muscle wasting, and he's definitely wobbly. He shook off my bodyguarding this morning and got up on top of a fence and lost his balance and slid down the side of it, no injury visible. He's bopped around in the yard since then, still wobbly in his hind legs.

I need to give him Sub-Q fluids today, because I didn't do it yesterday because I felt he needed a day to recover from what seemed like a massive dose, I didn't think to ask the vet that, if it matters if I do them both on the same day.

I guess my inclination is first do the Sub-Q fluids, then give him a fifth of the bupe that he had on Friday, which would be .01 ml or mg whatever it was..... and yet, he appears to be sleeping peacefully and happily next to Lily, so should I bupe him at all? New profile photo taken right now.
 
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Hi Lois,

Why not try a small dose of bupe, say 1/2 of the first dose you gave. I know that one frightened you because he zoned out. I suspect it looked worse than he felt. Some things we'll never know - we just have to act.
 
347 at +8. I thought it would be lower because he didn't have access to FF after 10 am, only YA. I'm going to keep the FF away and see if at least the PMPS can be lower than last couple days.

If I do the bupe, I think I should do one fifth or .01 instead of .05. He's got a hunchback of 125 ML ringers right now. Do both? And insulin?

His eyes have been unusually runny and gooey lately. Has anybody ever reported anecdotally that that has anything to do with diabetes? Didn't think to ask the vet about it.
 
407, better than last couple of nights.
Just spent 1.5 hrs talking about Java to my best friends in the neighborhood, who own 6 cats, thus sparing y'all from more lengthy posts!
 
347 at +8. I thought it would be lower because he didn't have access to FF after 10 am, only YA. I'm going to keep the FF away and see if at least the PMPS can be lower than last couple days.

If I do the bupe, I think I should do one fifth or .01 instead of .05. He's got a hunchback of 125 ML ringers right now. Do both? And insulin?

His eyes have been unusually runny and gooey lately. Has anybody ever reported anecdotally that that has anything to do with diabetes? Didn't think to ask the vet about it.
I've noticed a correlation between BG range and Teasel's "eye goobers" - more when BG is high and less/none when he's lower. My theory is that the dehydration produced by high BG causes eye irritation because of less tear production. I have no idea if that's correct though.
 
I'm pleased to see that less FF does result in slightly lower amps and pmps. I'm using FF as an (imperfect) delivery system for Miralax and cosequin. I bought a pill-er but haven't tried it. He normally changes from a 10 pound cat to a 100 pound cougar when pills are involved. I'm waiting to see what the Zobaline looks like.
 
I'm pleased to see that less FF does result in slightly lower amps and pmps. I'm using FF as an (imperfect) delivery system for Miralax and cosequin. I bought a pill-er but haven't tried it. He normally changes from a 10 pound cat to a 100 pound cougar when pills are involved. I'm waiting to see what the Zobaline looks like.
I've used a pill gun and found it to be very helpful.
 
My newly-diagnosed kidney cat Randall turned from a big lump of love into a buzzsaw for his Pepcid. With the pill gun he's more puzzled than anything and a quick treat afterwards makes him forget it even happened. He even comes running when I shake the pill bottle now!

Bupe made one of my cats very dopey - he looked like a zombie staggering around. A reduced dose is certainly worth a try, and if Java looks like he feels perkier then you know it's helping. Pain management is hard in cats since they are so stoic.
 
What do you use for treats? Things like Greenies have lots of carbs. Is your cat Randall diabetic also?

I wasn't going to give Java bupe at all until he looked so uncomfortable around 10 pm last night. I know, I wish it was easier to tell if they're in pain or not.

P.s. Delaware, OH! I went to OWU for one year.
 
I don't know anything about bupe, but my kitties know their treats! The pet store near me has lots of treats that are just freeze dried meat - no carbs at all: Sassycat (some of them have carbs, but they have a couple of flavors that are plain), Vital Essentials (lots of flavors - Chicken Giblets are the favorite here), Bonito Flakes, Wildside Salmon, and Cat-Man-Doo chicken. Some of those can be ordered from Amazon as well if they aren't carried at a store near you.
 
I think its the bonito flakes and cat man doo that can also be found at Asian markets. PureBites are another that most pet supply stores carry. Freeze dried proteins. I believe you can even get the dog ones, bigger bag for around same or little difference price. I just got some Young Again treats =)
 
What do you use for treats? Things like Greenies have lots of carbs. Is your cat Randall diabetic also?

I wasn't going to give Java bupe at all until he looked so uncomfortable around 10 pm last night. I know, I wish it was easier to tell if they're in pain or not.

P.s. Delaware, OH! I went to OWU for one year.

Small world!

Randall isn't diabetic, fortunately, the diets for kidney disease (low protein) and diabetes (high protein, low carb) are pretty opposite. I use CatManDoo freeze dried chicken treats, all my cats go INSANE for them!

My old boy Turlough had kidney disease for 3 years before he passed, and he would get ulcers in his mouth so we had bupe to make him feel better while they healed. The first time I gave him a dose he looked like an extra from The Walking Dead! Hermione got some bupe today after her lumpectomy and you can't tell except she's a little crooked when she walks :p
 
A new bag of Young Again food arrived today, and I'm kicking myself for not thinking to order their treats. Yes, Pure bites, Java and Lily love those.

Wow, Fancy Feast between 8 and 11 a.m. only really didn't make a difference today. Kris, I wonder if I should try 1.25 again? I also wonder, instead of that, should I measure out maybe 2 or 3 tablespoons of Fancy Feast and he only gets that in the morning and that's it. He likes slurry, FF blended with water, and never finishes a dish. Not sure what difference that makes, just kind of talking out loud. Literally. Love the dictation feature!
Edit, only get FF immediately after AMPS and PMPS.
 
I see you're getting pretty nice blue nadirs from the fat 1u. I'd be sure if you increase to 1.25u you are around to monitor close to nadir. Then again, I'm also a bit of a worry-wort ;)

I give Hermione her main meals of Primal while she's getting her insulin. I keep YA out all the time for the rest of my cats to eat, and Hermione grazes on it a bit too. You can try limiting the FF to shot times and see how that affects him.
 
Hi Lois,
There was bouncing going on yesterday. You could try 1.25 u but be home to monitor as Kimi suggested. Your blues have been nice but there's a little room to drop. Your call ...
 
There's a lot going on today, better to stick with fat 1 today. He's getting around inside and outside, but so tottery on hind legs. Vit B shot is today, I may bupe him at bedtime, or after PMPS, and shot.
It's tempting to change the 502 and 501 to 499!
 
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