? jade + 11..158..pmps 147 ..not going to shoot

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Jill & Jade

Jill & Jade

Member Since 2018
I'm sitting here going through so many threads from the people that have reached out to me and am sad to see so many of you going through the stress and worry of FB and at the same time, comforted knowing that I am by no means alone or anywhere near the crisis levels that so many of you are with your fur babies. It's all relative, I know, but still......it makes me even more grateful that you guys have taken the time to reach out to me and help when you're going through so much at your own homes. I wish there was something that expressed my gratitude more than just 2 simple words but, THANK YOU. I hope that over time, I am knowledgeable enough to return the favor.:bighug:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jade-amps-155-2-105-still-dropping-2-5-80.197660/
 
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It's a good idea to read other people's posts, especially some of the new ones. Many people have a lot of common issues to start and it's a great way to learn. It really helped me to read posts from people handling low numbers, I felt I was prepared when the same happened to me.

This board is wonderful, it literally saved my kitty, as she had conditions my vet knew nothing about. Plus it saved my sanity, having someone to talk to that knew what I was going through. Now many of us are paying it back. Eventually you too may feel up to helping, even if it's just popping in and saying hello to a new person.
 
+11 (and 15 minutes) is down to 158, will retest in about 50 minutes, but am reluctant to shoot when she's hovering around that number.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It's a good idea to read other people's posts, especially some of the new ones. Many people have a lot of common issues to start and it's a great way to learn. It really helped me to read posts from people handling low numbers, I felt I was prepared when the same happened to me.

This board is wonderful, it literally saved my kitty, as she had conditions my vet knew nothing about. Plus it saved my sanity, having someone to talk to that knew what I was going through. Now many of us are paying it back. Eventually you too may feel up to helping, even if it's just popping in and saying hello to a new person.
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I am completely convinced that Jade would not have made it through a few of these iffy situations had I 1) listened to my vet who said I don't need to test and 2) had I not found this FDMB and the people who have given me their time, knowledge, patience and compassion. I'm looking forward to being able to do the same when I'm more knowledgeable!! And thank-you!
 
This is what I think I have learned this far and would like to know if I'm" getting it" or way off base. Jades shot times are at 11 and 11. I came home from work and tested right away at 10:15, and she was at 158. From that number I was thinking that if at pmps time if she's higher, she's coming up from nadir and is good to shoot, if lower, then that time has probably come and gone and that stalling would be no good. This is how I made my decision to feed as usual but to not shoot. Am i right? And, also, should I expect a higher # at +2?I believe that to be the case and by her amps she should be well within range to proceed as usual with .75 units. I really hope that I'm getting the hang of this!!
 
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If the PMPS was lower, it would depend on how much lower.....Meters are allowed up to 20% variance, so as long as it was still "in the ballpark" of 150, I would have stalled and seen what happened (or just gone ahead and shot, knowing that I would need to get a +1 and +2 so IF I needed to, I could intervene early)

Eventually, you're going to need to learn to shoot those lower numbers, so doing it when you're able to be home and test often enough to keep her safe is the best time to try it.

Jill Hollister said:
should I expect a higher # at +2?I believe that to be the case and by her amps she should be well within range to proceed as usual with .75 units.
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Yes!....you should "expect" it to be higher (of course, we still haven't figured out how to get these cats of ours to read the rules of this dance!!)

Jill Hollister said:
I really hope that I'm getting the hang of this!!
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You are doing a good job!! It's not easy and you're starting to get it!
 
Chris & China said:
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If the PMPS was lower, it would depend on how much lower.....Meters are allowed up to 20% variance, so as long as it was still "in the ballpark" of 150, I would have stalled and seen what happened (or just gone ahead and shot, knowing that I would need to get a +1 and +2 so IF I needed to, I could intervene early)

Eventually, you're going to need to learn to shoot those lower numbers, so doing it when you're able to be home and test often enough to keep her safe is the best time to try it.



Yes!....you should "expect" it to be higher (of course, we still haven't figured out how to get these cats of ours to read the rules of this dance!!)



You are doing a good job!! It's not easy and you're starting to get it!
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I have you guys to thank! So, i hope I didn't put her at any risk by not shooting. I looked back through her SS and do recall her being at 130 for her amps, I believe and calling the vet and asking if that was ok, they said yes so I did and she rose and all was fine. That's why it took me by surprise that 150 was kind of an iffy number. Her pmps was only 9 points lower. I think I'm a little paranoid. If her + 2 is lower, shall I reach out for help? I think I'm feeling guilty by testing her as often as I do. She takes it, but I know she doesn't like it! I use Neopsporin but still worry that I'm hurting her.:(
 
I was talking to friend of mine last night and trying to explain the things I have learned so far and he said that he was always under the impression that Insulin is something that lowers yours blood sugar, that thats its sole purpose. To be honest, I did too and am having a hard time retraining my thinking and understanding that is not. Because if that were the case then +2 and + 3 wouldn't be higher than the ps #, right? Or is it correct that Insulin is to strictly bring the BG lower? Or does the BG # go higher before lowering because food hits the system faster than Insulin?
 
Insulin does bring the BG down....BUT, depending on the type of insulin, they work in different ways....also, insulin is a hormone, not a drug.

With a drug, like aspirin....you have a headache, you take 2 and your headache improves....with hormones, it's like a 14 year old girl talking to a friend on the phone....One minute they can be laughing hysterically with each other and the next minute they're screaming or crying.

With Lantus, it's a gentle insulin that doesn't usually start to "kick in" for 2-3 hours after the shot.

We do PS tests to make sure they're high enough to give insulin at all.....then we feed (which brings the BG up because that's what food does) and then the shot starts to kick in and lower the BG (IF it worked perfectly every time)

However, since it's a hormone, it doesn't do that every time. You also have to find the most effective dose that brings them down into good numbers without dropping them too low....and considering each shot can react a little differently, lots of testing data is your friend! You have to make decisions based on how your cat usually reacts but be ready in case they act differently
 
Ahhhh....I'm on hormones so I get that! So, why shoot at all if the BG is at a nice, low number? And how do I know when she needs a smaller dose? Or is that something that comes with time? This is almost close to making sense. Sounds like a constant crap shoot.
 
In a normal body, the pancreas is constantly releasing insulin in response to the BG....if we eat a light, low carb meal, it releases just enough insulin to handle the influx of food...if we eat a huge high carb meal, it releases more insulin for a longer period of time until the BG comes down and then it stops releasing

If it's working perfectly, it's constantly releasing insulin or slowing down the release of insulin in response to the body's changing BG levels.

But in our kitties, either their pancreas isn't working correctly or their bodies aren't responding correctly to the insulin that's being released, so we give "extra"....but we can never be as exact as the real thing
 
Jill & Jade said:
And how do I know when she needs a smaller dose?
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The Tight Regulation protocol is set up so that if they drop below 68 on the Alpha Trak (below 50 on a human meter), we reduce the dose because it's obviously too much at that exact time.

On the Start Low, Go Slow method, if they drop below 90 (on either meter) we reduce

(This is why we keep asking you which dosing method you want to use!!...it makes a difference in the advice we give you)

Or if they stay in normal numbers for 7 days, we reduce the dose to see if they can continue to stay in normal numbers on less insulin....and (hopefully) work our way down to zero insulin (remission!!)
 
Chris & China said:
The Tight Regulation protocol is set up so that if they drop below 68 on the Alpha Trak (below 50 on a human meter), we reduce the dose because it's obviously too much at that exact time.

On the Start Low, Go Slow method, if they drop below 90 (on either meter) we reduce

(This is why we keep asking you which dosing method you want to use!!...it makes a difference in the advice we give you)

Or if they stay in normal numbers for 7 days, we reduce the dose to see if they can continue to stay in normal numbers on less insulin....and (hopefully) work our way down to zero insulin (remission!!)
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Ok...I'm going to read and reread the low and slow method until I understand it. It seems to go against everything I've learned so far and perhaps thats why I've been stalling. I also find it confusing, to be honest. And the verbage makes it sound like it's something that should be started at Day one and I'm almost a month in. I mean not shooting under 90 is a HUGE diffenece from what I've come to understand is a safe number (150)
 
People change dosing methods all the time....I mean you shouldn't be changing it every few days, but if you start on TR and it doesn't work for you, there's no reason you can't go to SLGS and vise versa.

On SLGS, the 90 is the point where they "earn a reduction"......not the point where you decide whether to shoot or not.

On TR, they "earn a reduction" when they drop below 68

"Earning a reduction" is when they are "telling" you that the dose is too high because it's dropping them too low.....so they get a reduction in dose

No matter which one you choose, nobody shoots below 150 at first....but gradually, as you learn more about how YOUR cat responds, you start shooting lower and lower numbers. With China, we do TR and once I had enough data to understand how she reacted to both food and insulin, I started reducing the number I was willing to shoot. Now I'll shoot as long as she's at 50 or above (we use a human meter...so my number is 50 instead of 68)
 
Thanks, Chris. I have horrendous A.D.D. and unfortunately I get overloaded pretty easily with new stuff. And this is ALOT of new stuff. I try. I really do. It’s embarrassing that at my age, I can’t comprehend what most other people pick up pretty easily. I had to read and reread and reread.
 
Jill & Jade said:
Thanks, Chris. I have horrendous A.D.D. and unfortunately I get overloaded pretty easily with new stuff. And this is ALOT of new stuff. I try. I really do. It’s embarrassing that at my age, I can’t comprehend what most other people pick up pretty easily. I had to read and reread and reread.
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Sometimes it needs to be explained in the very simplest of terms.:rolleyes:
 
Trust me....I understand!!!

It was a good 6 months of others holding my hand before I was confident enough in my decisions for China.....and even then I'd still ask the "pro's"!!
 
There ar several reasons the +2 and +3 can be higher than the preshot. The cat could be starting a bounce. They could have had really high carb food at preshot time. They could have a later onset. Or if you don't shoot, the insulin from the previous cycle is wearing off.

That latter point is why you eventually will shoot lower numbers, when you have the data to do so. Both Lantus and Levemir are great at keeping cycles flat when you shoot lower numbers. Take a look around at posts by other people, especially those that have shot lower numbers. See what happens when they shoot low. Keep in mind that they don't shoot low until they have gathered the data to know what their particular cat will do. Each time you skip or shoot a reduced dose, it's also a chance to gather data.

In the mean time, sleep well tonight.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
There ar several reasons the +2 and +3 can be higher than the preshot. The cat could be starting a bounce. They could have had really high carb food at preshot time. They could have a later onset. Or if you don't shoot, the insulin from the previous cycle is wearing off.

That latter point is why you eventually will shoot lower numbers, when you have the data to do so. Both Lantus and Levemir are great at keeping cycles flat when you shoot lower numbers. Take a look around at posts by other people, especially those that have shot lower numbers. See what happens when they shoot low. Keep in mind that they don't shoot low until they have gathered the data to know what their particular cat will do. Each time you skip or shoot a reduced dose, it's also a chance to gather data.

In the mean time, sleep well tonight.
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Thank you! I will read and reread and reread this.. :)
 
Chris & China said:
I'm going to "tag" a few others......sometimes it helps to have several other people explain the same concept in different ways and then all the sudden it makes sense!

@Jill & Alex (GA) , @Wendy&Neko , @rhiannon and shadow (GA) , @Judy and Boomer
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Hi Jill!

The SLGS (start low go slow) method is generally used by those that can't (or won't) test periodically through the day/night so it is meant to keep the kitty at higher levels to keep them safe. So when a kitty is tested and the BG is 90 or less, the kitty earns a "reduction" and the insulin dose is lowered, usually by .25u
The other method is TR (tight regulation) and should be used only if you're willing and able to test periodically through the day and night. It generally keeps (or tries to keep) the BG at lower levels to promote healing of the pancreas but testing is absolutely necessary to keep the kitty safe. Beans with experience and knowledge of how their kitty responds will shoot as low as 50 but Beans who are new to Feline Diabetes definitely should not shoot this low. Note: I am not at all familiar with the alpha trak so the above numbers are when using a human meter.

You can definitely start out with one method and switch to the other.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Hi Jill!

The SLGS (start low go slow) method is generally used by those that can't (or won't) test periodically through the day/night so it is meant to keep the kitty at higher levels to keep them safe. So when a kitty is tested and the BG is 90 or less, the kitty earns a "reduction" and the insulin dose is lowered, usually by .25u
The other method is TR (tight regulation) and should be used only if you're willing and able to test periodically through the day and night. It generally keeps (or tries to keep) the BG at lower levels to promote healing of the pancreas but testing is absolutely necessary to keep the kitty safe. Beans with experience and knowledge of how their kitty responds will shoot as low as 50 but Beans who are new to Feline Diabetes definitely should not shoot this low. Note: I am not at all familiar with the alpha trak so the above numbers are when using a human meter.

You can definitely start out with one method and switch to the other.
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Thank you!
 
Hi Jill, Just our two cents here - we started with SLGS - start low, go slow; but then we switched to TR - Tight Regulation because I work from home and I can test Luci frequently - and felt that I needed to get more tests to start to get to know when she hits her nadir (her lowest blood glucose readings)...and I've pretty much figured that out - at least on most days - and then she goes and surprises me and her BG - blood glucose - will drop to some totally unexpected number!!! So one of the best things I've done along this journey is to stock up on lots of different kinds of Fancy Feast wet foods - I think the store clerks must have thought I was nuts as I would stand in front of the cans of cat food for a really long time - trying to select foods with the highest carbs I could find (I found that Fancy Feast Tuna with Cheddar Cheese and gravy was 21%)...so when Luci starts one of her famous dives (going way too low, too fast)...she gets a special treat...a teaspoon or two of FF with gravy! She licks it right up and then I test again and usually she's turning around and heading up...some days we do that all day - just to make sure her numbers stay just right. I also bought medium carb and low carb Fancy Feast - she gets LC - low carb most days - unless she's dropping and then I give her a little MC - medium carb - and that usually steadies her so she'll stay in the green numbers longer...but it's a dance - trying to figure out the right amount of insulin and the right kind and amount of food - and if you look at my SS - spreadsheet, you'll see we've been up adn down the scale as far as the amount of insulin. It takes time...and it's a journey..and we have to be patient and work with our lovelies who will let you know when they're on the way up or down - but only with the tests...so test as often as you can - and you'll get a feel for when the lowest BG is going to happen...

And best of all - you're a wonderful mama bean (that's what they call us on here) for taking care of your Special Princess, Ms. Jade...hope she'll come around soon and become one of the poster cats for getting well fast! Hang in there because some days will be very exciting!
 
Sue and Luci said:
Hi Jill, Just our two cents here - we started with SLGS - start low, go slow; but then we switched to TR - Tight Regulation because I work from home and I can test Luci frequently - and felt that I needed to get more tests to start to get to know when she hits her nadir (her lowest blood glucose readings)...and I've pretty much figured that out - at least on most days - and then she goes and surprises me and her BG - blood glucose - will drop to some totally unexpected number!!! So one of the best things I've done along this journey is to stock up on lots of different kinds of Fancy Feast wet foods - I think the store clerks must have thought I was nuts as I would stand in front of the cans of cat food for a really long time - trying to select foods with the highest carbs I could find (I found that Fancy Feast Tuna with Cheddar Cheese and gravy was 21%)...so when Luci starts one of her famous dives (going way too low, too fast)...she gets a special treat...a teaspoon or two of FF with gravy! She licks it right up and then I test again and usually she's turning around and heading up...some days we do that all day - just to make sure her numbers stay just right. I also bought medium carb and low carb Fancy Feast - she gets LC - low carb most days - unless she's dropping and then I give her a little MC - medium carb - and that usually steadies her so she'll stay in the green numbers longer...but it's a dance - trying to figure out the right amount of insulin and the right kind and amount of food - and if you look at my SS - spreadsheet, you'll see we've been up adn down the scale as far as the amount of insulin. It takes time...and it's a journey..and we have to be patient and work with our lovelies who will let you know when they're on the way up or down - but only with the tests...so test as often as you can - and you'll get a feel for when the lowest BG is going to happen...

And best of all - you're a wonderful mama bean (that's what they call us on here) for taking care of your Special Princess, Ms. Jade...hope she'll come around soon and become one of the poster cats for getting well fast! Hang in there because some days will be very exciting!
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Your “2 cents” are like gold! Thank you!! I appreciate your message very much! And look...
 

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Jill & Jade said:
And you’re from South Lyon! I’m from Detroit, been here in Chicago since 1990. Michigan. Woot!
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And we're cooking here today! Soooo hot...96 degrees most of the day ... starting to cool a bit...down to 94 now...too bad Luci doesn't like the pool! Mama and DH have been in and out ...and finally just gave up and spent the afternoon inside in the A/C having a nap....ah...lovely thing a nap on a Sunday afternoon...:D:D:D
 
Jill & Jade said:
And I most certainly did have a panic day just this week and was so grateful I had marked the cans!!!
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OMG! I hear ya...DH hasn't got a clue what's high, medium or low...so you're rocking it with marking the cans and a nice variety too! Now all you've got to do is show Jade...and I'm sure with the right amount of insulin you'll start to see those lovely 'green's (aka visiting the lagoon) on your SS too...I'll tell you it's the scariest thing (at least it was for me) when I shoot Luci and she's already in the green...I've only done it a few times - but talk about nerve wracking!!! But only when you're home to test... :) Let's stay in touch :)
 
Sue and Luci said:
And we're cooking here today! Soooo hot...96 degrees most of the day ... starting to cool a bit...down to 94 now...too bad Luci doesn't like the pool! Mama and DH have been in and out ...and finally just gave up and spent the afternoon inside in the A/C having a nap....ah...lovely thing a nap on a Sunday afternoon...:D:D:D
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You guys typically get our weather one day later, just started raining a bit here and a cool off is expected around 8:00, you should be getting a great day by Tuesday at the latest!!
Sue and Luci said:
OMG! I hear ya...DH hasn't got a clue what's high, medium or low...so you're rocking it with marking the cans and a nice variety too! Now all you've got to do is show Jade...and I'm sure with the right amount of insulin you'll start to see those lovely 'green's (aka visiting the lagoon) on your SS too...I'll tell you it's the scariest thing (at least it was for me) when I shoot Luci and she's already in the green...I've only done it a few times - but talk about nerve wracking!!! But only when you're home to test... :) Let's stay in touch :)
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Her numbers give me an instant panic attack when they aren't where they should be. I told a friend the other day that I never thought my days would be measured in 12 increments that come down to a 5 second number on a test strip. But they have and I am so very grateful for days when I can breathe knowing my girl is safe. The things we do for love. And yes! In touch we shall stay!! P.S. Luci is a beauty!
 
83 at +10 seems awfully late in the cycle to be hitting nadir.....now I'm a bit concerned. Is it possible to rise to above 150 in time for her pmps in 2 hours??
 
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