Jack 7/2 & questions on dose times

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Darlene & Jack

Darlene & Jack

Member Since 2011
So I am holding with the 1unit for now. Jack had kind of crazy day yesterday with ups and downs, hard to make sense of it. He did have a drop to 56 last night, but thankfully no huge rebound this morning like he had a few days ago.

I am off from work next week and we will be taking some day trips. Our usual shot schedule is 6am and 6pm. At least a few days we will leave the house maybe by 8am...and maybe not return until 8 or maybe a little later. On these days should I give the regular dose at 6am, then reduced dose when we get home? Give partial dose at 6am then a little more at 8am then reduced dose when we get home? If so, what are we looking at for dosage amounts? Thanks!!
 
As long as a 56 doesn't cause rebound swings you can probably stay at 1u.

For the days that you won't be home until 8pm, you could do split dosing the way Vicky does. You would give half of the dose (.5u) at 6a and the other half at 8a (test before each one). Then the full, regular dose (1u) can be given at 8pm. However, this means that your new 12/12 schedule is 8a/8p. Is that going to work in the days that follow?

If you can, leaving it at 8a/8p until you are done with your vacation day trips would probably be best. You can then move him back to 6a/6p in one step by shooting a reduced dose early at 6a. If it were me, I think I would shoot a fat .5u, but Vicky might have different advice.
 
Thanks for the info, Sheila. The 8am/8pm schedule might work for the week. We do have plans for one evening thing, but maybe we can do that earlier in the week then switch to 8/8, then get back on 6/6 by Sunday. It's hard planning vacations around a sugar cat!!
 
Darlene & Jack said:
It's hard planning vacations around a sugar cat!!
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Don't I know it!

It's hard planning life around a sugar cat. We just do the best we can for them. And with all of us here - that is pretty darn good!

Enjoy your vacation week!
 
I think doing the shots as close to 8AM/8PM is best, so you're not having to move him so much.

Sheila is spot on about getting him to the 8AM/8PM schedule. You give half dose (.5U in this case) at his usual shot time 6AM, then the other half (another .5U) at or near 8AM. That extends the duration so he shouldn't have too bad of number at 8PM that night. It will cause a hiccup either the next morning or evening and you will probably see an increase in BG, but it should also be temporary. It's just a response to the time changing.

To get back to 6AM/6PM cycles you reduce the 8PM dose the night before by 15%, so that would be .85U (can you measure that, practice beforehand) and also give the .85U dose the next morning at 6AM. Be forewarned this can cause a low to occur the following AM cycle - once I get Gandalf's SS updated you will see that for this AM when he had an 81 since I gave an early shot yesterday morning which was reduced but then I had not reduced the PM shot Friday evening, so we had a shed build-up and bam, he had a low preshot this AM. I reduced this AM's shot by about 15% (from .8U to .7U). The 81 may not have happened if I had given .7U on Friday night. That's why it's important to reduce 2 doses, the one before the early one as well as the early one.

Hope that gives you an idea of how to plan. Hope you have good weather for all your activities!
 
Thanks, Vicky. Do we have this info in a lev sticky? Or do you not want to make split dosing guidelines "official" anywhere? I know it gets some folks in a tizzy to even bring up the subject of splits to move shot times.

I just think that your SS and Peggy's show it works and is a valid method.
 
Thanks for the info, ladies. I know I will definitely need to do the split dose on Wednesday...going to NYC. :-) Hope to get at least a good beach day in too. The other days we should be home for the right times. Jack is usually so erratic that maybe it will shock him into regulating! :lol:
 
Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
Thanks, Vicky. Do we have this info in a lev sticky? Or do you not want to make split dosing guidelines "official" anywhere? I know it gets some folks in a tizzy to even bring up the subject of splits to move shot times.

I just think that your SS and Peggy's show it works and is a valid method.
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Unfortunately the terminology is not defined well because some people seem to think it's the same as TID dosing or some other customized plan. It is not. The sole purpose of what I do is to extend cycle duration so the next shot can be delayed up to 2 hours past previous 12/12 times.

I think most agree that it works to extend duration, but my concern is that others will think it can correct BGs resulting from improper dose. It is not meant for that.

I don't have an problem bringing it up to those whose cats might benefit from it given their situation (like Peggy's) but to put it out there as a dosing guideline also puts it in the hands of those who may not understand the purpose.

Does that make sense?
 
I agree that it might be confusing to add the split dosing in a sticky. It's all confusing enough just doing regular dosing! I knew to ask about the specifics from reading some other posts. Maybe just add a footnote on one of the Lev stickies stating that if circumstances arise that you cannot if adhere to your regular shot times, please post on the Lev board for specific instructions?

Also, I have the Lev pens. Started the first one on 5/8 and am still using that one. How long can I use this one for? I am wondering if it is time to open a new one.
 
Darlene & Jack said:
Also, I have the Lev pens. Started the first one on 5/8 and am still using that one. How long can I use this one for? I am wondering if it is time to open a new one.
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If you are refrigerating it you can use it until the last drop. At least that is what I have found. I did just start a new pen today because of J's numbers, which have been sort of flat. I had about 8-10 units left in the old one and almost as much air. Plus I opened it in Feb or something, so I am checking to see if a new one will work better or if I *still* have to find the right dose.
 
I ended up opening a new pen for the PM dose tonight, but still kept the one I was using separate. I figure if I don't see a big difference in numbers or effect I can still keep using the old one for a while longer. They have been refrigerated all along. Wow, since February? That's great. :-)
 
Yes, Lev is good to the last drop. Anytime I attributed wonky numbers to an old pen or a pen with less than 50U left and opened a new one, it made no difference. I am on the last pen from the box I bought in March of '10.
 
One more question about the dosing. Looking at our plans for Wednesday, we will probably leave the house between 8 and 8:30am. Figuring out the times of everything, I think we might not get home until closer to 9 or 10pm. If I give the split dose in the AM with the 2nd shot at 8am, what should I do if I can't shoot until 10pm? Just give a reduced dose then follow the above instructions and keep him on 8/8 the following day?

We may get home earlier than 10, but I just want to be prepared. Thanks!
 
You can't do anything about moving the am shot later than 8a (since you are leaving) so shoot whenever you get home. Yes, follow the reduced dose for tomorrow evening and Thursday morning.

Although, if you will be home during the day Thursday you might shoot a full dose tomorrow night (Wed) if it is after +13 and then a reduced dose Thurs am. I am thinking that your shooting late Wed pm is like a reduction so you don't want to double reduce, but since you will then be shooting ~ 2 hrs early Thurs am and have not done this whole split/move early by 2 hrs before, being there would be better to monitor him.

If you are unsure, better to err on the side of caution and reduce both shots.

I hope I didn't totally confuse you! :roll:
 
Thanks Sheila. I am starting to understand how this works a little better now!! We should be home more on Thursday and Friday to check him.
I went to sleep then set my alarm for 1am last night to catch that 72 @ +7 since I had a feeling he might drop when I got the 194 @ +5. It seemed like his numbers were creeping up again, but now we had the lower cycle last night. Yesterday his eating was off too.

Hopefully he won't have any big drops during the day today!
 
I know it's too late, but given the 72 last night, shooting a reduced dose on both tonight's and tomorrow's am shot would have been what I would have done - just so the changes didn't add up too more insulin and a lower number. 72 is great, but not a lot of wiggle room.
 
Was surprised to get the 276 @ +15 last night. I meant to give .85 at that time, but as I was drawing up my dose this morning I realized I only gave .75. Since we got home later than expected last night and he got his shot at almost +15 ( about 20 minutes before that), his shot this morning (following the planned 8/8 schedule) was 3 hours early...so I gave .75. He was 291 @ +7 this morning, then 323 @ +9 and got the .75.

We don't have any other long trips planned for this week so I figure I will try to get him back on 6/6 tomorrow to give him time to readjust before I go back to work Monday. So following the advice from earlier...looks like I should give .85 at 8pm tonight, then .85 at 6am tomorrow....correct? I will be home (or someone will be home) to check him today and tomorrow.

I hope I'm not mucking this up too badly!!
 
That's' sounds about right. His numbers will be effected, no way around that with time changes, but as you point out better to have whatever wonkiness there will be happen when you are around to monitor and (hopefully) settle out before Monday.
 
Had a high of 513 @ +9 this afternoon...my son had checked him. I checked him at +10 when I got home and he was 400. Was tempted to give his dose early as it was 6pm (his usual shot time), but hated to overlap another dose and have him drop too low tonight. Since he came down himself I waited it out...gave this evenings dose just about 1/2 hour early.

Agreed Sheila...get the "wonkiness" over now! I hope it doesn't mess him up for too long. Not that he was well regulated, but his numbers were coming down a bit.
 
Ouchies, that 513 was unexpected, but he came down pretty well off that and didn't stay there long. Could just have been a reaction to all the time changes with the late shot, then early shot. Hard to tell.

+9 is the absolute earliest anyone should ever consider giving a shot, in fact it's something I would advise against because I've done it and seen low numbers off it, even from a fairly high preshot. You are lucky that you gave only .75U instead of the .85U on the PM shot and on the AM shot. And his +3 tonight is headed in the right direction. In fact, given the lows and bouncing he's had on 1U, you might consider staying with the .85U for a little longer if it's not too hard to measure.
 
I didn't expect that 513 either, but you had warned me I might see some higher numbers. I was glad for the .75 dose in the evening, and I had calculated out giving the .75 in the AM following the reasoning/formula someone else on here had posted a while back (maybe Marcy?) by taking the 1 unit and dividing by 12. Then figured out the amount I should give at +9 came out to .75 un. So when I measured that in the morning by drawing up to 1 then letting off 2.5 drops...I realized I had done that the night before too instead of letting off 1.5 drops.

I'll see how the day goes today, but maybe I will stick with the .85 for a little bit and see how he does. It hasn't been too bad to measure.
 
Since you did another 2 hr earlier shot this AM, I'm very glad you stayed with the .85U! Will you or someone be getting a couple tests on him during the day? That's a really good preshot number for him to be getting a +10 dose. Just don't want him to have another 500!

Oh, and giving earlier shots can cause wonky numbers too and not always in this cycle, maybe the next or even the following day's.

You're doing very good for Jack! You may still be able to go back to 1U but he's had some lows and resulting swings on it, so giving .85U a chance to stabilize the BGs is worth a "shot." ;-)
 
Thanks, Vicky...I'm trying my best for Jack!! When we were gone all day and came home that night Jack was walking around looking at us like, "Mom, what about my diabetes??? I was worried about my blood sugars!!" LOL Of course I'm sure he was just glad he had a poke free day. :-)

We are home, in and out today to check him. So far so good, 292 @ +3, but I do expect I might get some crazy numbers for a day or 2. Hopefully no more 500's.

I'm glad I don't have to do these time changes often! I do need to get my daughter trained in giving the shots though. I have an overnight trip at the end of the month and she will have to do his shots.
 
I wish he could get some more consistent days like that! Yesterday looked really good. But usually a good day is followed by a not so good day...but I will be optimistic and hope that the dose/time changes will have shocked his system into behaving!!!!

:dizcat
 
His cycle last night and this AM look like he has a food spike going on, because of the upper 300 he got both cycles at +3.

So about food, it's something we don't talk much about here, but a couple things are important. On Lev I would rather see a cat eat several small meals throughout the day rather than a large meal twice a day or even large meals 4 times a day. The reason is that the insulin has to work against all that food and if the meals are smaller and spread out, it has less to work against.

The other important thing is carbs, of course, but that is covered ad infinitum when you're introduced on the board, so we know it's no less important on Lev.

Given this, I'm wondering how Jack eats? Is he a gorger? That means he eats up whatever is put in front of him. If so you might consider a timed feeder, to space out his meals and only allow him so much at one time.

Sorry if this has been asked/covered previously.
 
I agree that his +3 spikes are most likely related to food. He is not a gorger, and he had usually eaten a larger amount in the morning, snacks all day and then more later in the evening. He has food available all day, I use an auto feeder during the day when I'm not home and at night too. Last week I started adding a 2nd can in the feeder overnight. But as I said before, over the last several weeks he seems to eat less during the day and more in the evenings and overnight. Like yesterday, he ate a little in the morning, not much during the day, but then ate small amounts very frequently from about 8pm until I went to bed at midnight. Then there was food available all night. I think he ate more this morning than he did yesterday.

Sometimes when he hasn't eaten much all day I will put out a can of fresh food thinking he doesn't want something that sat out a few hours. He might nibble that, then go over and eat the food that has been sitting out longer, then go back to the fresher food, lol. I can't figure him out. But yesterday, all 3 of the cats didn't eat much.
 
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