? Jack 03/07 - AMPS 341, +4 324, +7 341, PMPS 302, +2 289, +4 344

AngelaMiao

AngelaMiao

Member Since 2019
Still stuck in pink. I hate looking back at how much better he used to do on 0.5 vs the current 1.25

I used to post on a Facebook group called Feline Diabetic Support Group (not the Feline Diabetes group related to this forum) and the admins seem convinced that Jack should be on 0.5u because he had better numbers on it and keep saying that too much insulin could look like not enough but his numbers seem pretty flat and I don't see any crazy bouncing, so I'm not sure that I understand what they mean. I stopped posting there because I just want to follow one protocol, I'm just feeling curious and don't understand how a lower dose can possibly give better numbers unless they're bouncing from very low to very high, which Jack hasn't done for a week. Anybody have some insight on what they're trying to tell me?
 
The higher numbers indicate that his pancreas isn't working as it should...you may need to keep increasing his lantus until it starts to cooperate. The thing with FD is that while at a certain time his pancreas may have been helping a bit - like when he was on .25 - it appeared that his numbers were better - but his condition grew worse. Cats need what they need to help get that glucose down - and it appears that Jack may still need more. I'd like to see a 2+ sometimes to see if the insulin is starting to kick in...once you see any downward movement in his numbers, check again to see how long the insulin is taking to get him to nadir.

My Luci is an expert in ups and downs...I say that she likes all the numbers - take a look at our SS and you'll see what I mean. She has good days and bad days...but then, don't we all? We've been at this for quite a while now...hoping she'll get there someday :)

You've done a great job with testing and in my opinion just need to keep working with the Lantus until he starts to show you some better numbers. He's a beauty by the way...and welcome to the forum! :bighug::bighug:
 
Jack is so newly diagnosed, those earlier numbers at a lower dose aren't necessarily predictive of how he will do once his body adjusts to the insulin (and presumed change in diet). It looks like you'll need to keep sneaking up on his insulin until you hit the dose that keeps him in blues and greens without dropping too low. You're doing a great job of monitoring and adjusting his doses, just keep at it for awhile. You will find a therapeutic dose for him, in the meantime you can feel confident that you are taking a tried and true approach that is keeping him safe.

ETA: I know the FB group of which you speak, you are right to be skeptical of the advice you receive there. I think it's mostly well-intentioned, but not always evidence-based.
 
Will get some more +2s. I never notice a big difference in them so I made a habit of skipping. Hopefully they'll make more sense to me once his numbers improve. If the +2 number is higher, that generally means he will bounce right?

@Sue and Luci Checked out your spreadsheet and wow, you really go deep. Do you have someone helping you with testing so that you can sleep?

@Erin & Scott I'm not sure where they get their information from. They just made me nervous because he did have good numbers on 0.50 but then someone here pointed out it's likely he got used to higher numbers when I brought him down to 0.25 too early and left him in higher numbers for too long.

If he's still in the 300s tonight, would I go up by 0.50 tomorrow since he'll be at 6 cycles consistently over 300?
 
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At least to my eyes, Jack wasn't doing all that well on lower doses. What I suspect is frustrating you is that he's bouncing. Any time he drops into even lower yellows, let alone blues or greens, his pancreas panics and he zooms into pinks or above. While it may drive us crazy, it's a normal response. It's your kitty's built in protection system that is his body's way of preventing hypoglycemia. When numbers enter into a range you're cat is no longer use to, the liver and pancreas dump a stored form of glucose, along with counterregulatory hormones into the cat's system. The number spike upward. The more Jack gets used to spending time in normal numbers, the more this will level out.

Like Erin, I know some of the people in the group you mentioned. Some of them were asked to leave FDMB due to their less than cordial way of interacting with members coupled with a not so solid understanding of some aspects of FD. Some of these individuals held particularly strong opinions that had no basis in research.
 
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) I think I know exactly who got booted off FDMB for insubordination and it's probably the same woman who gave me sh*t for not going back to 0.50 lol. I saw her name here in an old post but her profile doesn't exist - she's an admin on that FB forum now.

Really hoping it's all just bouncing. I'm wondering if a change in syringe made a difference too since I don't use calipers - the dates kind of coincide, but everytime I think I notice a pattern with stuff like meat sources, trace ingredients, feeding times, ect, it ends up just being a coincidence once I test further lol
 
The “too much insulin looks like too little” keeps getting trotted out. But they never give the whole story. It can be true if kitty was started at too high a dose or increased by large an amount AND the caregiver is not testing enough to catch any drops. None of that is true in Jack’s case, you are doing a great job testing.

It may help you to remember that insulin is a hormone, not a drug. You don’t give a bit more and see a corresponding little bit better numbers. Instead, you keep increasing safely as per the dosing methods, and not lingering too long on a dose, and eventually you will hit that fitting dose. Since you are following TR, if you don’t see anything below 200 after six cycles at this dose, increase by 0.25 units. You WILL get there.:bighug:

That FB person, if her name starts with G, berated me so much here she made me cry and I almost left FDMB. Instead, the people here convinced me to stay (Sienne was one of them), and helped me give Neko a longer life and get her into better numbers.
 
@Wendy&Neko we are definitely talking about the same person! That makes me feel a lot better! I understood the whole going too low without realizing, but that's definitely not what's happening with Jack.

So wait, in the TR guidelines it says if Nadirs are over 200 but under 300, to go up by 0.25 after 6 cycles, and if they're over 300, to go up by 0.5 after 6 cycles, so would I go up by 0.5 since he's never been under 300 in 6 cycles?
 
AngelaMiao said:
Do you have someone helping you with testing so that you can sleep?
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Yes, my hubby helps me out with the late night readings - except for this last week or so...he had a knee replacement last Tuesday so isn't up to staying up very late with Miss Luci...so far she hasn't pulled any really interesting numbers at the 2+ which would require one of us staying/getting up to test her thru the night. (thank goodness). Providing care for DH and Luci has proven to be about all I can do...I'll be glad when DH is all mended up and back to the routine. I work from home so I have the 'duty' all day...but by 9 p.m. EST I'm toast...so I just have to get some rest to rewind and do it all again tomorrow...:facepalm:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Yes, but let’s see what tonight brings first.
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So he went down to 289 from 302 (but I don't really see that as a difference considering meter variance) and then went up to 344. Will get in one more test before bed.

Should I consider the 289 as being under 300 or is it close enough to 300 to treat it as such when increasing the dose tomorrow? I feel like he's very insulin resistant right now.
 
Yellow is yellow. Might be seeing some glucose toxicity which is a form of insulin resistance.
 
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