Is fasting or consistent timing more important?

[KittyKatMama]

Hi everyone! My Noel usually gets her insulin shots at around 10ish both AM and PM. I forgot to pull her food at 8m and she had a few bites of wet food from earlier today at 9:39PM. Is it more important to wait the 2 hours before testing or to be giving insulin on a routine schedule? If I run late on a dose do I wait 12 hours from then? How do I get back on a routine schedule? Also, Noel had a AMPS of 101 this morning and didn't get her insulin shot this morning. I posted on the FB page too.. Thank you, I appreciate it.

 

[Nancy29]

Hello there, I too have a kitty -well a few lol, but my Linkin got diabetes 1 1/2 ago and he's on a 1.5 dose twice daily and on fancy feast (pate only). I too was advised to skip a dose if late, but if I'm an hour late feeding mine, say 11pm instead of 10, then as long as he eats he gets the dose, otherwise the food doesnt get processed without the insulin, and the next day I would feed at 10:30am with dose and back to 10PM that night. I have found too many other issues can occur such as too high of sugar and having to stay up taking him to vet 4am, or sugar going low, and there were times the syrup, and glucose did not bring his sugar up for hours which is even more scary. I cant stand watching my cat staggering around all because I missed a dose, or vomiting. If I've missed by 2 hours I still feed and dose my baby then the next day I give morn dose 1hour after normal time (instead of 2)then by night back to norm. This really has kept my cat healthy in all other medical issues that can come with diabetes. Good luck

 

[KittyKatMama]

Hello there, I too have a kitty -well a few lol, but my Linkin got diabetes 1 1/2 ago and he's on a 1.5 dose twice daily and on fancy feast (pate only). I too was advised to skip a dose if late, but if I'm an hour late feeding mine, say 11pm instead of 10, then as long as he eats he gets the dose, otherwise the food doesnt get processed without the insulin, and the next day I would feed at 10:30am with dose and back to 10PM that night. I have found too many other issues can occur such as too high of sugar and having to stay up taking him to vet 4am, or sugar going low, and there were times the syrup, and glucose did not bring his sugar up for hours which is even more scary. I cant stand watching my cat staggering around all because I missed a dose, or vomiting. If I've missed by 2 hours I still feed and dose my baby then the next day I give morn dose 1hour after normal time (instead of 2)then by night back to norm. This really has kept my cat healthy in all other medical issues that can come with diabetes. Good luck

Thank you so much Nancy (and Linkin). So it sounds like you cut the difference in half for the dose that comes after the late dose and then back to normal after that? That sounds doable. Noel's BG for her PMPS was 197 so I skipped the PM insulin dose today. I'm going to test her again shortly so I can get more numbers on her chart and hopefully a better picture of what she needs to be her happy, sassy self. Thank you, I truly appreciate your feedback

 

[Shelley & Jess]

While I appreciate that @Nancy29 took the time to share her experience I have a few concerns and frankly am quite alarmed with a couple things she has stated.

I'm an hour late feeding mine, say 11pm instead of 10, then as long as he eats he gets the dose,

To start with we don't know if she checks the BG to see if it's even high enough to shoot and we can't see a spreadsheet to see what she's talking about.

I cant stand watching my cat staggering around all because I missed a dose,

A cat staggering around sounds more like a hypo symptom from too much insulin.

I have found too many other issues can occur such as too high of sugar and having to stay up taking him to vet 4am, or sugar going low, and there were times the syrup, and glucose did not bring his sugar up for hours which is even more scary.

There are a number of ways to interpret this statement. The first that comes to mind, too high of sugar could be from bouncing caused by the BG going too low which could possibly mean the dose is too high. We just don't know what's going on without seeing a spreadsheet.

@KittyKatMama you're still in the process of collecting data. While it's best to stick to an every 12 hour dosing schedule, sometimes real life gets in the way. Prozinc does have some wiggle room when it comes to shooting a little early or a little late, within that hour window if needed - as long as the BG is high enough to shoot you can get back on schedule pretty much right away.

It's all about the data and how your cat responds - ECID (every cat is different).

Yes, it's important to withhold food in the two hours before shot time to ensure the PS test is not food influenced. But, as you collect more data and see what kind of food bumps Noel is getting with +1 and/or +2 tests you can take that information in to consideration if he happens to sneak some food when he's not supposed to. Some kittys are super carb sensitive and others like my Jess would get virtually no food bump at all - I learned this by testing and seeing her patterns.

Keep getting those PS tests to make sure it's safe to shoot and try to get as many mid-cycle tests sprinkled around as you can to help paint the picture about what's going on.

 

[Nancy29]

While I appreciate that @Nancy29 took the time to share her experience I have a few concerns and frankly am quite alarmed with a couple things she has stated.


To start with we don't know if she checks the BG to see if it's even high enough to shoot and we can't see a spreadsheet to see what she's talking about.


A cat staggering around sounds more like a hypo symptom from too much insulin.


There are a number of ways to interpret this statement. The first that comes to mind, too high of sugar could be from bouncing caused by the BG going too low which could possibly mean the dose is too high. We just don't know what's going on without seeing a spreadsheet.

@KittyKatMama you're still in the process of collecting data. While it's best to stick to an every 12 hour dosing schedule, sometimes real life gets in the way. Prozinc does have some wiggle room when it comes to shooting a little early or a little late, within that hour window if needed - as long as the BG is high enough to shoot you can get back on schedule pretty much right away.

It's all about the data and how your cat responds - ECID (every cat is different).

Yes, it's important to withhold food in the two hours before shot time to ensure the PS test is not food influenced. But, as you collect more data and see what kind of food bumps Noel is getting with +1 and/or +2 tests you can take that information in to consideration if he happens to sneak some food when he's not supposed to. Some kittys are super carb sensitive and others like my Jess would get virtually no food bump at all - I learned this by testing and seeing her patterns.

Keep getting those PS tests to make sure it's safe to shoot and try to get as many mid-cycle tests sprinkled around as you can to help paint the picture about what's going on.

Your right I did not post his readings, I check my boy regularly, daily, and have him checked by my vet monthly, I speak truth and dont need to post it to prove, the proof is in my happy healthy diabetic cat. Every time my cats sugar got low, he wasnt moving as normal and was google eyed, and didnt want to eat. I have experience, 3rd cat I've dealt with unfortunately having this horrible disease, thankfully my Linkin allows me to check his half ears(which fell off due to frostbite-oddly even-from getting out in winter for a month 2 yrs ago), so as difficult as it is poking him is easy to get his readings and he takes his needles like a champ lol. One thing I do not do, is miss a dose unless his sugar is low, but with a sugar reading of 197, I would still give a half dose, it works perfect for my guy. Good luck-i totally understand the frustration in the beginning years of dealing with this, but like I always say about this disease-at least he's healthy and happy.

 

[Nancy29]

Thank you so much Nancy (and Linkin). So it sounds like you cut the difference in half for the dose that comes after the late dose and then back to normal after that? That sounds doable. Noel's BG for her PMPS was 197 so I skipped the PM insulin dose today. I'm going to test her again shortly so I can get more numbers on her chart and hopefully a better picture of what she needs to be her happy, sassy self. Thank you, I truly appreciate

While I appreciate that @Nancy29 took the time to share her experience I have a few concerns and frankly am quite alarmed with a couple things she has stated.


To start with we don't know if she checks the BG to see if it's even high enough to shoot and we can't see a spreadsheet to see what she's talking about.


A cat staggering around sounds more like a hypo symptom from too much insulin.


There are a number of ways to interpret this statement. The first that comes to mind, too high of sugar could be from bouncing caused by the BG going too low which could possibly mean the dose is too high. We just don't know what's going on without seeing a spreadsheet.

@KittyKatMama you're still in the process of collecting data. While it's best to stick to an every 12 hour dosing schedule, sometimes real life gets in the way. Prozinc does have some wiggle room when it comes to shooting a little early or a little late, within that hour window if needed - as long as the BG is high enough to shoot you can get back on schedule pretty much right away.

It's all about the data and how your cat responds - ECID (every cat is different).

Yes, it's important to withhold food in the two hours before shot time to ensure the PS test is not food influenced. But, as you collect more data and see what kind of food bumps Noel is getting with +1 and/or +2 tests you can take that information in to consideration if he happens to sneak some food when he's not supposed to. Some kittys are super carb sensitive and others like my Jess would get virtually no food bump at all - I learned this by testing and seeing her patterns.

Keep getting those PS tests to make sure it's safe to shoot and try to get as many mid-cycle tests sprinkled around as you can to help paint the picture about what's going on.

My cat has never had too much insulin, he wasnt given any because his sugar was LOW, stumbling happens from low sugar, I wouldnt give him insulin when I check and see its low, I give him syrups, glucose to bring it up

 

[Nancy29]

Thank you so much Nancy (and Linkin). So it sounds like you cut the difference in half for the dose that comes after the late dose and then back to normal after that? That sounds doable. Noel's BG for her PMPS was 197 so I skipped the PM insulin dose today. I'm going to test her again shortly so I can get more numbers on her chart and hopefully a better picture of what she needs to be her happy, sassy self. Thank you, I truly appreciate your feedback

Hello again another kittykatmama and kitty ofcourse, I would ask your vet about missing a dose when 196 or 197 because my vet told me it is better to give a quarter dose which will not lower sugar too much but will give his body better functionality. I know it's so frustrating at first, but through all the nights and mornings staying awake the first year, I called and took my Linkin into vet any time I even had a worry, and I worry alot lol, I truly have an amazing vet finally the last few yrs. I am super inquisitive so I had to know everything lol. My vet is super impressed that all labs come back great especially the urine analysis ofcourse. I know how important it is when questions come up, if at any time you have any questions or just want to chat about your beauty, I'm here, i love animals and personally know how high vet bills can get, if i can help I will gladly

 

[KittyKatMama]

While I appreciate that @Nancy29 took the time to share her experience I have a few concerns and frankly am quite alarmed with a couple things she has stated.


To start with we don't know if she checks the BG to see if it's even high enough to shoot and we can't see a spreadsheet to see what she's talking about.


A cat staggering around sounds more like a hypo symptom from too much insulin.


There are a number of ways to interpret this statement. The first that comes to mind, too high of sugar could be from bouncing caused by the BG going too low which could possibly mean the dose is too high. We just don't know what's going on without seeing a spreadsheet.

@KittyKatMama you're still in the process of collecting data. While it's best to stick to an every 12 hour dosing schedule, sometimes real life gets in the way. Prozinc does have some wiggle room when it comes to shooting a little early or a little late, within that hour window if needed - as long as the BG is high enough to shoot you can get back on schedule pretty much right away.

It's all about the data and how your cat responds - ECID (every cat is different).

Yes, it's important to withhold food in the two hours before shot time to ensure the PS test is not food influenced. But, as you collect more data and see what kind of food bumps Noel is getting with +1 and/or +2 tests you can take that information in to consideration if he happens to sneak some food when he's not supposed to. Some kittys are super carb sensitive and others like my Jess would get virtually no food bump at all - I learned this by testing and seeing her patterns.

Keep getting those PS tests to make sure it's safe to shoot and try to get as many mid-cycle tests sprinkled around as you can to help paint the picture about what's going on.

Thank you, Shelley & Jess. I've been doing a lot of tests to try and get a better picture of what Noel needs. I'll start testing at different times after she eats to see what the food is doing to her blood sugar. Do you usually feed your diabetic cat the same exact foods and flavor every day so you know how it will affect them? I appreciate all of the feedback and guidance, thank you.

 

[KittyKatMama]

Hello again another kittykatmama and kitty ofcourse, I would ask your vet about missing a dose when 196 or 197 because my vet told me it is better to give a quarter dose which will not lower sugar too much but will give his body better functionality. I know it's so frustrating at first, but through all the nights and mornings staying awake the first year, I called and took my Linkin into vet any time I even had a worry, and I worry alot lol, I truly have an amazing vet finally the last few yrs. I am super inquisitive so I had to know everything lol. My vet is super impressed that all labs come back great especially the urine analysis ofcourse. I know how important it is when questions come up, if at any time you have any questions or just want to chat about your beauty, I'm here, i love animals and personally know how high vet bills can get, if i can help I will gladly

Thank you, Nancy I appreciate all of the support, it's a lot to learn.

 

[Shelley & Jess]

I've been doing a lot of tests to try and get a better picture of what Noel needs.

You're doing a wonderful job getting those tests in! There's no better way to see the big picture than seeing the patterns the numbers create on the spreadsheet.

Do you usually feed your diabetic cat the same exact foods and flavor every day so you know how it will affect them?

Some do, some don't, I stuck to mostly two flavors in rotation because of her super sensitive stomach, I tried to sneak in a couple other flavors but for the most part stuck to what worked at the time.

This is where the comment section of your spreadsheet comes in handy for making notes about what flavor you fed each day. (I see you're already making great use of it!) After you've collected enough data you'll start to see if there's any difference in her BG patterns from different flavors/foods.

 

[Shelley & Jess]

@Nancy29

Wow, that’s great you’re happy with your vet and your FD treatment plan(s) - we don’t hear that very often around here. Most members land here because their vet lacks a full understanding of FD that more often than not leads to a poor treatment plan and/or no chance for remission. There’s more than one way to treat FD - would love to see your spreadsheet to see what’s working for you!

However, I kindly ask, perhaps you could familiarize yourself with our dosing protocols (if you have not done so already) that way going forward should you wish to share your thoughts and experience you could let others know what works for you while stating that you don’t follow FDMB protocols if/when it applies. For others reading it will help them understand why your recommendations may deviate from the written guidelines we use here when making suggestions for treatment and will also help avoid any confusion, especially for new members still learning. Let’s keep all kittys safe!

(Sorry for sorta hijacking your thread @KittyKatMama )

 

[KittyKatMama]

You're doing a wonderful job getting those tests in! There's no better way to see the big picture than seeing the patterns the numbers create on the spreadsheet.

Some do, some don't, I stuck to mostly two flavors in rotation because of her super sensitive stomach, I tried to sneak in a couple other flavors but for the most part stuck to what worked at the time.

This is where the comment section of your spreadsheet comes in handy for making notes about what flavor you fed each day. (I see you're already making great use of it!) After you've collected enough data you'll start to see if there's any difference in her BG patterns from different flavors/foods.

Your kitty has a sensitive stomach as well? Noel had been vomiting a lot over the last few years some periods it was every day, 2-5 times a day, bile and everything. She was miserable. we tried multiple vets, nothing helped and guidance was all over the board. Typically the vet would advise me to try giving her different allergen friendly foods. Noel was eating food that was far more expensive than mine and still throwing up. Even throwing up the Royal Canin Select PR and that stuff is gold! Eventually she was prescribed Atopica and though she was having side effects she wasn't throwing up as much and other issues like itchy skin, chewing on her skin and fur missing almost immidately got better, now that we switched to Prednisone it's still helping a lot without the side effects of the cyclosporine. From there, the greenie hairball treats seemed to help take the vomiting from a couple times a week to once every couple weeks. I know they're high carb but she won't take any other hairball remedy and I don't want to risk her throwing up when she's getting insulin. BTW, what do you do if you give your kitty a shot and then they get sick?

 

[JanetNJ]

A few bites probably didn't make much difference. Consider getting a timed feeder.

 

[Shelley & Jess]

BTW, what do you do if you give your kitty a shot and then they get sick?

For most cats, Prozinc onset is around +2. You have a bit of time to try and get her to eat again and hold it down before the insulin starts working.

If Jess happened to vomit her PS meal I would offer more food. I don't ever remember her getting sick again from a second feeding.

It took a lot of trial and error with foods for us too, even tried raw a couple of times, didn't go over too well. Finally found a single protein food with 'no added nothing' that agreed with her and made all the difference. I was finally able to get her off prednisolone. It seemed with Jess to be a combination of not being able to tolerate certain proteins anymore along with the gums, carrageenan and all that added fancy crap found even in some LID foods.

ETA - just looked back through her records because I remembered it got to the point where she was starting to have hair loss on her belly too, I don't remember her being itchy or chewing but yep the prednisolone helped reverse the hair loss.