? Inulin in wet food- is it safe?

[Shiena]

Hi all. My Holly girl (7 years old) was diagnosed with diabetes late December. Her doc wanted to wait for the oral meds to come through as she was considered to be a good candidate for it. After months of waiting for the release and her being fully on a diabetic diet, we started her on it only for her to end up with ketones in her urine on day 3 of the treatment. Full stop on that treatment option and full on with insulin now for the last couple of weeks. Her sugars are still in the high 20s pre food and low 20s 6 hours after her 2 units shot (twice daily) but thankfully her blood ketones are down to 0.3 as of yesterday morning. I have a sneaky feeling that her insulin type may need to be changed and this is something the vet and I would need to work on. I have been trying to find very high meat and sugar free wet food and I do see a few brands available here locally but noted that there is a 0.2% Inulin in most of them. Would someone be able to advise what exactly it is and how safe it is for a diabetic cat? Thanks

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Can you tell us where you live please.
If you are looking for low carb food here is a FOOD CHART. Look for goods that are 10% carbs or under

can you tell us what type of unsulin you are using?
Also if there have been ketones it is important that you feed lots of food to your kitty during the day and evening

 

[Shiena]

Hiya. Am in Ireland. Her insulin is Caninsulin. Holly is a foodie. She was on free feeding before but now on a twice daily feed. Her food is not restricted during those feeding times. She loads up on her diabetic kibbles and wet food until she is full. She was 6.5kg a year ago (she was a large very active cat) and now down to 4.9kg. Noticed the excessive drinking and peeing that I got her checked out. I suspected that she could be a diabetic then but it was still a shock getting it confirmed.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

If you are using caninsulin you need to feed her 1/2 hour before you give the dose of insulin.
I would also recommend you give her a snack of food around +2 and +4 ( 2 and 4 hours after the doses every cycle.)
Also 2 units each dose is a lot to start a newly diagnosed cat on.
I would recommend you think about hometesting the blood glucose so you know what the dose is doing and how low it is taking Holly. You can buy a human glucose meter at a pharmacy. We can help you learn to test the blood glucose.
Do you have some honey at home in case of a hypo?y

Here is a link to BEGINNERS GUIDE TO CANINSULIN

Here is a link to HOMETESTING HINTS AND LINKS

Her is a link to HELP US HELP YOU

 

[Shiena]

She was started on 1 unit 1st, 2x a day and it was then increased up to 2 units after a week. Thank you for the links above and I will definitely look at them for sure. Good point on the +2, + 4 hrs after dose snack and have honey on standby. I am a diabetic (T2) myself so I have the meters with me for both blood and ketones. Admittedly I do have issues trying to get her blood sample from her ears. Am a little worried too to be honest. I got away being able to work from home the last week to monitor her but come this Monday I have to be in office for 2 days a week and she will be on her own.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Inulin is a pre-biotic. This is a link to one of Purina's research websites that discusses inulin and other prebiotics. It looks like it's safe in a diabetic cat.

Just a small observation -- You don't want to look for "sugar" in cat food. It's unlikely that you'll find it as an ingredient. All sugars are carbohydrates. We consider low carb as under 10% although most members feed their cat somewhere in the 5% range. The "diabetic" kibble is really not low in carbohydrates. Despite what the pet food manufacturers would like vets or caregivers to think, it is typically quite high in carbs. We recommend a canned food diet. I can't speak to if there's a low carb option for dry food in the UK. There are only 2 dry foods in the US that are sufficiently low in carbs to be used with a diabetic. You may need to look for a freeze dried or air dried raw food or a jerky style food as a possibility that's not a canned food.

This is a link to a food chart for members in the UK.

I'm tagging one of our members in the UK who has information on what is available there. @Elizabeth and Bertie

Also, you may want to discuss the use of Prozinc with your vet. While Caninsulin was the insulin that had to be prescribed as a first line choice, my understanding is that this has changed and Prozinc, which is a much better option for treating feline diabetes, is now in use.

 

[Shiena]

Inulin is a pre-biotic. This is a link to one of Purina's research websites that discusses inulin and other prebiotics. It looks like it's safe in a diabetic cat.

Just a small observation -- You don't want to look for "sugar" in cat food. It's unlikely that you'll find it as an ingredient. All sugars are carbohydrates. We consider low carb as under 10% although most members feed their cat somewhere in the 5% range. The "diabetic" kibble is really not low in carbohydrates. Despite what the pet food manufacturers would like vets or caregivers to think, it is typically quite high in carbs. We recommend a canned food diet. I can't speak to if there's a low carb option for dry food in the UK. There are only 2 dry foods in the US that are sufficiently low in carbs to be used with a diabetic. You may need to look for a freeze dried or air dried raw food or a jerky style food as a possibility that's not a canned food.

This is a link to a food chart for members in the UK.

I'm tagging one of our members in the UK who has information on what is available there. @Elizabeth and Bertie

Also, you may want to discuss the use of Prozinc with your vet. While Caninsulin was the insulin that had to be prescribed as a first line choice, my understanding is that this has changed and Prozinc, which is a much better option for treating feline diabetes, is now in use.

Thanks very much for this as it will help me decide which options are best for Holly. I will have a chat with the vet next week about Prozinc.

 

[Don Degludec]

I may be totally out of pocket here [please anyone, feel free to slap my wrist for even thinking about this, if it's outrageous], but given that the best insulin for feline patients are those that most of us use - human insulins [Lantus/Levemir/Tresiba] and since Shiena is diabetic herself, wouldn't it be advisable for her to straight up ask her vet about any of those?

To clarify: I am by no means suggesting her starting her cat on her own, human insulin [whatever that may be] that would be ridiculous and extremely dangerous! I'm just wondering, given that she likely has knowledge about the aforementioned insulins herself, her vet may be more lenient to prescribe that for her cat under the cascade system - saving a lot of time and effort in stabilising the kitty.

[My vet bypassed cascade and we went straight from Caninsulin to Lantus, hence the question.]

Edit: I only sparingly use kibbles with my diabetic cat - ProPlan's "diabetic" kibbles makes his BG skyrocket, so I restored to Carnilove's "hairball control" duck and pheasant [helps him poop too, obviously]. It still has around 20% DMC [dry matter carbohydrate] content, but is grain free, and has no nasty additives. That's the best I could personally find out there, which is affordable. There's Dr. Elsey's on Amazon/eBay but it's incredibly pricey with being imported from the US.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

@Don Degludec - Your question is not unreasonable. However, I'm not an expert on what is or isn't permitted in the UK. The Prozinc option is somewhat recent. I think you have to start with one of the recommended insulins and it they aren't working, you may have the option of a human insulin.

 

[Don Degludec]

Yes, that is correct. "Any new cases should receive the authorised veterinary medicine."

They can prescribe human medicine, "Where there is no suitable veterinary medicine authorised in your territory [...]"

In the view of: "When using a product under the cascade, you should balance the expected benefits to the animal with the risks of using a medicine under the cascade."

And even, in exceptional cases "You could recommend that an animal owner use a human medicine that they already have in their possession [...]"

How they go about it is solely dependant on the veterinary professional. My current vet without hesitation changed us from Caninsulin to Lantus [skipping the ProZinc step entirely] seeing the knowledge I had on feline diabetes and of the variety and nature of insulins [and orals] out there.
But I have also dealt with a vet, who was a diabetic himself, that tried to blame our use of "off-label" insulin on his medical malpractice that almost cost my cat his life...
[Yet he'd try to coerce the continuous use of Gabapentin thereafter [which is just as "off-label" as Lantus], when in fact, my cat is highly sensitive to it, and of which he was fully aware of before administering it to him and frying his CNS mid-surgery.]

Link to The Cascade.

Edit: Sorry, all the above is the cascade within the UK. Here's the link to The Cascade in Ireland - "The Supply and Use of Human Medicines in Veterinary Practice".

 

[Shiena]

Yes, is correct. "Any new cases should receive the authorised veterinary medicine."

They can prescribe human medicine, "Where there is no suitable veterinary medicine authorised in your territory [...]"

In the view of: "When using a product under the cascade, you should balance the expected benefits to the animal with the risks of using a medicine under the cascade."

And even, in exceptional cases "You could recommend that an animal owner use a human medicine that they already have in their possession [...]"

How they go about it is solely dependant on the veterinary professional. My current vet without hesitation changed us from Caninsulin to Lantus [skipping the ProZinc step entirely] seeing the knowledge I had on feline diabetes and of the variety and nature of insulins [and orals] out there.
But I have also dealt with a vet, who was a diabetic himself, that tried to blame our use of "off-label" insulin on his medical malpractice that almost cost my cat his life...
[Yet he'd try to coerce the continuous use of Gabapentin thereafter [which is just as "off-label" as Lantus], when in fact, my cat is highly sensitive to it, and of which he was fully aware of before administering it to him and frying his CNS mid-surgery.]

Link to The Cascade.

Edit: Sorry, all the above is the cascade within the UK. Here's the link to The Cascade in Ireland - "The Supply and Use of Human Medicines in Veterinary Practice".

Hi Don. I am a type 2 diabetic and am not on insulin so my knowledge of how best it works is somewhat limited. Admittedly I am trying to do some fast study on them for sure . I do have Holly and all of my other 3 kitties on a combo of RC+ pro plan diabetic kibbles - so this I will check for sure if the type of kibble she is on, have been causing her spikes. Her BG is still very high this morning so this is something I need to sort out asap with the vet.

 

[Don Degludec]

Hi Don. I am a type 2 diabetic and am not on insulin so my knowledge of how best it works is somewhat limited. Admittedly I am trying to do some fast study on them for sure . I do have Holly and all of my other 3 kitties on a combo of RC+ pro plan diabetic kibbles - so this I will check for sure if the type of kibble she is on, have been causing her spikes. Her BG is still very high this morning so this is something I need to sort out asap with the vet.

That did not even cross my mind, I'm sorry!

I'm not sure what's in ProPlan, but since I introduced it to my cats last year, the other two would not eat any other kibble.
Our vet was really fond to Rx diets too, until I showed her my boy's spreadsheet. He would go from a 5.7 pre-shot to a 14.7 mid-cycle [!] when he had even as little as 5 grams of ProPlan, whereas his BG would stay stable or drop slightly by mid-cycle when he had 10-15 grams of that grain-free, "healthier" kibble I mentioned above mixed into his wet food, for poo-production-purposes.