Introducing Sergei, diagnosed 14 September 2020

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

How are you doing on ketones testing?

He may just be feeling yucky because he's in high numbers (or because he's moving up and down rapidly on Caninsulin), but we want to keep an eye on this.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

This sound like it could be too much insulin are you giving insulin? Something isnt right here . You are administering insulin right?

This is a good point-- I skipped right over the fact that your test was at +10. That is long past the peak action of the insulin.

On the next cycle, can you test at pre-shot and then around +2 or +3 and see where he is then?

 

[Diana&Tom]

If he’s eating, that’s a good sign. It may well be either the high bg making him feel groggy or that Caninsulin doesn’t agree with him. I’d be inclined to call the vet in the morning and ask for advice - they may suggest taking him in to be checked over.

 

[Sergei]

Hi, yes, Caninsulin 2,5U. Eating perfectly fine, but still 21,0 reading at +10 hours post insulin.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

hmmmm too much insulin???

Scott how many readings have you gotten so far? It may be time to get that spreadsheet set up. Even if there arent a lot of things to enter it helps give a visual. Would you be willing to do that?
If you are having trouble with it we have a couple of great people that do a marvelous job of helping with spreadsheets.

 

[Sergei]

hmmmm too much insulin???

Scott how many readings have you gotten so far? It may be time to get that spreadsheet set up. Even if there arent a lot of things to enter it helps give a visual. Would you be willing to do that?
If you are having trouble with it we have a couple of great people that do a marvelous job of helping with spreadsheets.

Hi, yes, thanks so much. He gets 2.5U. Caninsulin. Isn’t 21 mmo/l at 8+ a pretty high reading for a 12 pound cat on relatively reduced carbs?

 

[Sergei]

If he’s eating, that’s a good sign. It may well be either the high bg making him feel groggy or that Caninsulin doesn’t agree with him. I’d be inclined to call the vet in the morning and ask for advice - they may suggest taking him in to be checked over.

Thanks for your reply. Fortunately we take him in at +4 tomorrow for a reading and evaluation. Home test unstressed was 21,0 mmo/l at +8 so I feel like Serg is still soaring on BG. He’s such a trooper though. He takes his insulin so willingly even though I sing him my dumb “I love you Sergei” song.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Yes it is. However, it's not unusual for newly-diagnosed cats to swing between extremes.

Check out today's numbers for Hercules in this thread Again! 3.2 at +2!!!1 today (click on the spreadsheet at the bottom of any of the thread-starter's @Hercule's mum's posts)

Summarizing: Hercules started the day at 15.1, dropped into the 3's at +2, and was back up to the 20's and higher by +5. And that's on a gentler insulin than Caninsulin.

You really can't judge based on a single number at +10 where he's been during the day.

 

[Diana&Tom]

Exactly as Nan says, you can’t judge bg based on a single number. It could have been that Sergei was HI (usually above 30) pre-shot this morning in which case 21 doesn’t sound so bad, does it. 21 is fairly high yes but not stratospheric.

His demeanour may be due to fluctuating bg, it may be the dose (2.5u is high to start) or it may be the specific insulin, as we’ve said. It sounds as if you have a good relationship with your vet so see what they say.

I think when you start to get regular tests it will all become clearer and we can offer more specific advice.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Yes it is high... but without more data its hard for our helpers to give advice without being able to see it THATS why spreadsheets are SO important. I know you dont have much data but you are going to HAVE to do this sooner than later anyway.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

I DO hope the vet can give you better guidelines. and get this dosage sorted . Come back and let us know what happens ok? We really DO care.

 

[Sergei]

I DO hope the vet can give you better guidelines. and get this dosage sorted . Come back and let us know what happens ok? We really DO care.

Thanks and yes of course I will. The learning curve on this is quite steep and wide, and I really appreciate everyone’s expertise, experience, concern and patience, These have gotten me through this week. I feel a bit cuckoo having spent almost an entire week, day and night, just trying to keep my Serg safe and comfortable until we have a better idea of whst’s going on in his body.

 

[Sergei]

Yes it is. However, it's not unusual for newly-diagnosed cats to swing between extremes.

Check out today's numbers for Hercules in this thread Again! 3.2 at +2!!!1 today (click on the spreadsheet at the bottom of any of the thread-starter's @Hercule's mum's posts)

Summarizing: Hercules started the day at 15.1, dropped into the 3's at +2, and was back up to the 20's and higher by +5. And that's on a gentler insulin than Caninsulin.

You really can't judge based on a single number at +10 where he's been during the day.

This is very helpful information. When I saw Sergei’s 21 I despaired thinking it was terribly unusual. He did come down a little from the reading at DX, but that was presumably with some insulin still at work. Agree that caninsulin may play a role. Will do more numbers coming week. Thanks for your encouragement.

 

[Hercule's mum]

I am no expert, but my cat also goes very sleepy and quiet when his sugar is quite high, and seems perfectly fine when he his sugar is dangerously low. But he is a weird one!

Are you meassuring his glucose often? if so you could try to increase insulin to try to reduce his BG ? I don't believe you have your spreadsheet set-up? So, I do not want to talk out of turn, but have a look through the dosing guidelines. How low he goes during a 12 hour cycle is the most critical information. Close to the shots they are often pretty quite high, and is not a reliable indicator of how the whole day went.

 

[Hercule's mum]

LOL! We crossed posts. yes. We had a wild day, and he is not happy now, poor thing!

 

[Sergei]

I am no expert, but my cat also goes very sleepy and quiet when his sugar is quite high, and seems perfectly fine when he his sugar is dangerously low. But he is a weird one!

Are you meassuring his glucose often? if so you could try to increase insulin to try to reduce his BG ? I don't believe you have your spreadsheet set-up? So, I do not want to talk out of turn, but have a look through the dosing guidelines. How low he goes during a 12 hour cycle is the most critical information. Close to the shots they are often pretty quite high, and is not a reliable indicator of how the whole day went.

I sense Sergei is also a weird one. His sluggishness feels more an extension and expansion of his of pre-diagnosis behavior. He surprises me because he will emerge from the depths and seem sort of himself enery now and then. If heciscsleeping, . I wake him half hourly and make him signal he’s alright. There was such a pronounced change last week even before we started insuline and the number was over 25. He went downhill over the course of 24 hrs and he seems to be just pooped.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome, Scott!

Sergei, you, and your partner have had quite the few days starting on this journey! I'm tagging @Elizabeth and Bertie who is a veteran Caninsulin user. I'm also tagging @Ann & Scatcats who I believe is in Norway and may have more information about supplies in your part of the world.

As others have noted, it's quite possible that Sergei's numbers are swinging from the higher ranges at pre-shot times to lower ranges at nadir (the lowest point in the cycle). That scenario would be very typical with a short duration insulin like Caninsulin. It will give you a better sense of what's going on if you get a couple of tests -- like at 2 hour and 4 or 5 hours after you give an injection. While the high numbers are always something we hate seeing, it's the low numbers that are the bigger cause for concern. Those swings in numbers can cause Sergei to feel awful. Likewise, eating a high carb meal may be part of why he's sleepy!

The M/D dry food is very high in carbs. The Hill's website says it's around 15% carbs whereas I come up with around 21%. We consider low carb under 10% and most of us use foods that are in the 5% or thereabout range.

It it isn't completely obvious, the first few weeks of this process are overwhelming. There is a lot to learn. I've been here for over 10 years and I'm still learning.

I would encourage you to talk to your vet about Lantus. Insulins such as Caninsulin have a far shorter duration which means there's no insulin in your cat's system for hours prior to the next shot. Caninsulin can also drop numbers hard and fast which is why getting a test or two within a few hours after a shot is important.

If I may ask a favor. This thread has gotten quite long. If you could, would you start a new thread tomorrow? You can copy and past the URL from this thread into the new thread so there's a way to backtrack. Once a thread gets to be more than about 50 posts, it takes a while for a new reader to get up to speed. Unfortunately, you're getting some suggestions where it's pretty clear the person posting hasn't read the entire thread.

Please let us know if you have more questions.