Introducing Mr. Orange

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Tovah13

Member Since 2013
Hello everyone.
I have never in my life used a forum before, so bare with me if I do something wrong. The reason I'm here at all is due to my big boy Mr. Orange. He came to my husband and I as a stray in 2010.He was full grown when he came to us. Vet says he may be around 8 or 9. We fed him for a year outside and he did fine, then one hot summer day we decided to bring him into the basement because at the time he had an absess from a cat fight and he seemed to be too hot. He has never went outside after that. He became a resident of the household as soon as we realized he was going to get along with our other two cats. We have two female cats Creepy and Spooky, they are also indoor kitties.
After moving Mr. Orange inside I noticed how sticky his urine was and that he had a crazy appetite. I knew this was not right, so we went to vet. They diagnosed him with a urinary tract infection and he was given two rounds of antibiotics. This did not fix anything. We kept going back and getting blood work and nothing was showing up. Finally after a year of this... his BG finally tested high for diabetes. It was over 500. I had the vet check him already for this due to his symptoms growing. (drinking and urinating excessively; eating alot; crying and acting starved) .
He was officially diagnosed with diabetes on July 31st of this year (2013). We started him on 2cc twice a day then upped to 3cc. I did not notice any change except for maybe he wasnt being as vocal for food. We went back after a week on 3cc and he was upped to 5cc due to a 600 BG level. Went back a week later and now we are up to 7cc twice daily and still he is drinking and peeing like no tomorrow. His BG this time was 690!!!!!!! He is not losing any weight. Has stayed a steady 18.5lbs. He is a really large framed boy.
As soon as he was diagnosed I started him on Friskies classic patte. I have not been successful at taking the dry food away due to my other cats. They will starve if I take it away and they are small cats anyway. I have bought Purina Protein dry food to put out for them and I only put out two cups a day for all 3 of them to eat on. I do have an indoor / outdoor cat that comes in and eats the dry as well. With so many cats it's impossible to try to keep him completely away from dry food.
Last Friday at the Vet he mentioned that he is not sure, but is leaning toward Mr. Orange having Acromegaly. This worries me as well after reading about it. He is not responding to insulin at all. If anything it has gone up every time I take him back to get a curve done. The vet says I'm doing everything I can, but I feel like I could be doing so much more. I have to take him back next week for another curve to see how he is doing on 7cc. I can already tell that he is still high. The vet didn't say anything about testing for Acromegaly yet. I am just fearing the worst I guess. This big boy means the world to my husband and I.

We have so many concerns and questions.

1. Should we start to do our own home testing? I feel like we should... that way I won't have to take him to the vet every freaking week like I am now. It is so hard taking him there. He hates it and I hate it even more.

1a. if we do start testing at home what should we use? Do you have to take blood from vein? Is this easy to do?

2. Is there something else I can be doing to make him better with his diet? I feed him half of the tiny Friskies classic in morning and other half in evening. There is dry food ; only two cups left out for all the cats a day.

3. Should I have him tested this early for Acromegaly? The vet says it may be a possibility. I'm already reading stuff about it and just want to know if he has it.

Thanks a million for taking the time to read about our beloved pet. I appreciate any insight.
Tovah, Donnie, Mr. Orange and family
 
Welcome to FDMB!

What insulin are you using? Lantus, Levemir, ProZinc, and PZI work well and long enough in cats to dose every 12 hours for most cats. Other insulins last less time and good control may be difficult to achieve. If you are using one of those, then checking for high dose conditions like acromegaly or insulin autoantibodies would make sense.

Since you're already giving insulin, focus on learning to do home testing. Its safer for your cat if you know his glucose is high enough to give insulin, or low enough that he needs help.

You will need:
A human glucometer - the ReliOn Confirm from our shopping partner WalMart is inexpensive as is the generic version Glucocard 02 available from our shopping partner ADW (links at top of page).
matching test strips - always have a spare box
lancets - 27-28 gauge lancets are used to prick the ear or paw pad
cotton balls or folded tissue

Food - to help with your dry food addicts, you might consider Evo Cat and Kitten dry, Stella & Chewy's freeze dried, or Young Again 0 Carb (internet only and actually 5% calories from carbohydrates. This would make sure everyone has low carb food of one sort or another. Ideally, though, ALL the cats should be on low carb canned or raw food as they tend not to drink enough water otherwise, increasing the risk of renal disease or bladder/kidney stones. Because it may drop the glucose 100 mg/dL if only low carb food is availble, you need to be testing FIRST, for safety, again. We rely on Cat Info, written by vet Dr Lisa Pierson for nutrition information - there is a printable chart of most common US canned foods and the percent of calories from carbohydrates, which is not on the can labels.
 
Hello and welcome to the board!

I agree with everything BJ said. I doubt its acromegaly - more likely he is high due to the dry food, and possible recurrent UTI. I would hold off on doing the test until you have tried home testing and a diet change.

Yes definately start home testing!!!. Its cheaper and more reliable plus you get a much better picture of exactly whats going on. Heres some tips and a shopping list.https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Once you start home testing I would look into the low carb dry suggestions BJ gave you, but you could also try transitioning the whole house to wet - here are tips http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf

Let us know on the insulin
Wendy
 
Tovah13 said:
As soon as he was diagnosed I started him on Friskies classic patte. I have not been successful at taking the dry food away due to my other cats. They will starve if I take it away and they are small cats anyway. I have bought Purina Protein dry food to put out for them and I only put out two cups a day for all 3 of them to eat on. I do have an indoor / outdoor cat that comes in and eats the dry as well. With so many cats it's impossible to try to keep him completely away from dry food.
Click to expand...

We understand. One trick that I found that worked when transitioning my cats to canned food is to put a small handful of dry on top of their bowls of canned food. Gradually I would decrease the amount of dry on each bowl. I still have a couple that will not eat their canned food unless there is some dry on it, but I only need to add about 5 pieces to make them happy. :mrgreen:
 
Thank you so much for your fast response. Mr. Orange is on Relion Novolin. This is what my vet suggested. I will def buy a home meter now. I will try all that is suggested and see how it goes. I've tried the evo and no one will eat it. I fed it to the raccoons and opossum outside! I will have to try another kind to see if that works. If I switch to only wet food how much should I feed them? Sometimes I feel like its not enough or one will not eat and then another one gets it. Usually mr orange. My other kitties are small and it scares me that they don't get enough.
 
Novolin (sometimes referred to as N) is not that good of an insulin for almost all cats since it effect lasts less that 12 hours. Better are the human insulins Lantus or Levemir or the pet insulin ProZinc
 
Tovah13 said:
What is the diff in price? N is less than 30.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is cheap... and it isn't doing the job being given only 2 times a day as it lasts roughly 6 to 8 hours in the cat. That means that there's 2 to 4 hours where there's nothing controlling the glucose level. And if you keep increasing, without checking about 3-4 hours after the shot to see how low he is going, you could wind up killing him with a hypo.

If you take the total daily dose, divide by 3, and give that every 8 hours, you'll get better control, although his glucose will be going down and up fairly steeply between shots.

Or you can bite the bullet and consider insulins which work for around 12 hours per shot - ProZinc, Lantus (some savings program's exist), or Levemir. If you're near Canada, it can be worth it to get your passport and pop up there to purchase Lantus or Levemir.
 
Hello. My name is Tovah. :) I am taking Mr. Orange to vet tomorrow to get BG levels checked. I will talk to him about switching the insulin to something better than N. I asked about that last week when we were there and he said to wait to see if we could get him leveled out on this. It doesn't seem to be doing ANYTHING. His levels are higher and higher every single time i have taken him. I'm at a loss. I plan to take him to vet tomorrow and then purchase my own meter and do readings and curves myself at home. Poor little guy has been to vet every week for a couple months now. I don't make alot of money and am putting him before food for myself. I just want to know that I am doing all that I can. I am very new to this and have never been around anyone with diabetes before. Thanks for all the help.

Much appreciation,
Tovah, Donnie (my husband)
Mr. Orange (Diabetic ; possible acromegaly)
Creepy, Spooky, Peach and Eerie ;-)
 
How did the vet go?

A vial of Lantus or Levemir will last up to 6 months in the fridge and so its not as costly. You can also buy them by individual pens which last as long and cost only $25 - the trick is to find a pharmacy that will sell you them individually.

If you google them then Diabetic Cats in Need (DCIN) may be able to help with a meter etc

Home testing will save you a ton on vet costs.

Wendy
 
Hello Tovah and Mr. Orange and welcome to the message board from me. My sugar girl is an acromegalic cat but not something you can tell by looking at her. She's part Maine Coon but was 13lb at diagnosis which was lighter than she had been several years before that. Size isn't necessarily an indicator. Before doing tests for acromegaly, we recommend a few things. First, do home testing to make sure that the high doses of insulin are required. High numbers can also be a result of overdosing and it's not until you home test that you'll know that. As others have said, home testing is way cheaper, saves $$ at the vet that can be used on a better insulin. Curves at the vet can be unreliable, as cat's blood sugar can spike at the vet. Second, feeding only low carb food as others as mentioned. Third, rule out other factors such as infection or dental issues which can raise blood sugar numbers.

Finally, if Mr. Orange does have acromegaly, there are a number of us here with cats with that condition. We can help with any questions.
 
I posted a reply, but i guess I did not send it!! The vet visit was a little better this time, but not by much. Over 500 the first test, second was 280, the last one was 4oo / close to 500. I asked about switching his insulin and the vet said any time that I wanted to switch just call and he would call in the precription. I now have a BG meter and will be learning how to do this in the next few days. He seems to be responding a little bit, hopefully upping his insulin to 8cc will help. His fur and eating habits have gotten better, but he is still drinking and peeing alot. The vet also said that since he was showing some response with the insulin that Acromegaly was ruled out. Not so sure if I feel comfortable ruling that out since it's still really high. I will continue to practice and get this down to a science. Thank you for all your help.

Tovah and Mr. Orange
 
Hello again Tovah. Sounds like you have a vet who is willing to change insulins and work with you, so that's great. Good luck with practicing the blood tests. That'll be important to know how Mr. Orange is responding at home which could be quite different than at the vet. I took my non diabetic cat to the vet for something and his blood glucose was almost 150 points higher than when I tested him at home - all due to vet stress.

Were your vet tests at the same time of day or the same number of hours after injection? Since N only lasts 6-8 hours in the cat, it's possible that if you gave the injection early in the morning that the insulin would be close to wearing off for a late afternoon appointment. I didn't blood test at first, but the vet did a curve to determine roughly when nadir was, and then we always came in for a test around that time of day. Unfortunately we first used Caninsulin (also called Vetsulin) and I could tell it wasn't lasting either because she was starving and really unhappy about 9-10 hours after her shot. When we switched to Lantus, I started testing, and the longer lasting insulin made a huge difference.

BTW - your vet is wrong about seeing a response at 8 cc rules out acromegaly. We first started seeing blood sugar numbers under 100 at 3.75 units, and maxed out at 8.75 units before going back down the scale. My vet didn't think it was worth getting tested for acromegaly until we got over 10 units, but we never got that high.
 
I think you mean 8 units, not 8 ccs.

1 cc = 1 mL
= 100 units for a U-100 insulin
= 40 units for a U-40 insulin
 
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