Intro- new user, just got diagnosis

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Monica and Atticus (GA)

Monica and Atticus (GA)

Member Since 2011
Hello, All!

I live in Texas with 10-year-old Atticus and his littermate Miranda. Over the last couple weeks I noticed Atticus losing weight, but no other symptoms or behavioral changes. He did seem to be eating and drinking a bit more, but he was always a chowhound. But he went from 15 to 13 pounds rather quickly. Yesterday we learned his blood glucose was 484, and the vet says he's diabetic. Since his energy level hasn't changed much and he seems fine, the vet has me coming in tomorrow to get his insulin prescription and Saturday we'll go in to start him on insulin. The vet will teach me how to administer the shots then. My boyfriend will be coming with us so he can learn, too.

I've been keeping an eye on him and he doesn't seem to be in any kind of distress. His kidney function is excellent, but I'm still keeping a close eye on him.
For years I have fed both cats dry food, Nutro Max Cat Indoor. In my research I've learned that canned food will be better, so today I started adding in Evo canned food. Miranda can be finicky, so I have to make sure they both will eat it (since separating their food would be extremely difficult, if not impossible).

Of course all the information is very overwhelming. I'll be talking to my vet tomorrow, but my biggest concern is whether to start him on insulin at all right now since I'm switching him to high-protein, no-grain canned. The vet said we'll start on a low dose twice a day for 10-14 days, and then come back to check his blood. But I'd like to monitor his glucose more closely, and am considering buying a glucometer. My mom is diabetic, and she checks her sugar daily, so it seems sensible to do the same for Atticus. He's a very gentle and trusting cat (with me, anyway), but of course I have no idea how he will tolerate daily monitoring and shots.

I'm feeling guilty for feeding them dry all this time, but when I first started keeping cats, the understanding was that dry is better for their teeth and prevention of urine crystals. I'd been giving them canned as a treat every once in a while, but I guess I hadn't been keeping up with the literature. I'm trying not to freak out, because I don't want to stress Atticus any further, but of course it's all very scary. I know of all the things Atticus could have had wrong, this is one of the most manageable. He's been my little friend for 10 years and has gotten me through a lot of hard times. I hope I can do what I need to do for him.

I'm glad this resource is here, and thanks to all of you!

-M
 
Madrigirl78 said:
...I'm feeling guilty for feeding them dry all this time, but when I first started keeping cats, the understanding was that dry is better for their teeth and prevention of urine crystals.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the group you never wanted to join!

Please don't feel guilty - a lot of us discovered the same information the exact same way. Turns out dry food does nothing for the teeth and doesn't prevent urine crystals - regular dental cleaning and a low carbohydrate canned diet may prevent the dental and bladder issues much better.

I'm feeding 3 oz Purina Pro Plan Turkey and Giblets mixed with 13.2 oz PetSmart Sophisticat Turkey and Giblets Dinner to a household of 12 indoor and 3 patio cats. They seem to eat it OK and Spitzer's glucose actually has come down since adding more Pro Plan (that could be him - he has some GI issues, along with the diabetes)

Don't let your vet sell you the prescription diabetes diets; many of the over the counter foods are better quality and have fewer carbohydrate calories. Check Binky's Page for more information.
 
we all arrived here feeling a little freaked out and worried. hopefully we can help you ease into this and teach you what you need to know to get atticus back to healthy again.

one of the first things we all do is switch cats to low carb canned food. it's ideal that you're posting before you've started insulin, because if the switch can be made right away that is MUCH better. if you start an insulin dose that's based upon the high carbs of dry food it will be too high once you change to low carb food.

in general, there are no low-carb dry foods. in general, the pate or classic style of canned cat foods are mostly low-carb and are the best for our diabetic cats. think of it like this - if your mom ate candy bars every day she would have to increase her insulin dose to compensate. some cats are so sensitive to carbs that their blood sugar will soar from only a kibble or two of cat or dog dry food. if you take away your mom's candy bars it will be much easier on her body and the insulin dose will be the lowest it can possibly be.

great that you know a little about diabetes already! and you are very smart to want to test atticus' blood sugar at home. just like for your mom it will become routine and won't take longer than brushing your teeth once you've gotten the hang of it. between dogs, cats and human diabetics, cats are considered the very most difficult to manage and hometesting is the best way to get there.

newly diagnosed cats have an excellent possibility of going off of insulin if you put them on Lantus and follow the protocol that was developed at the University of Queensland in Australia. the stat is 84% will go off of insulin if started on Lantus or Levemir within 6 months of diagnosis- so if that is your goal (which is what most of us want) using Lantus or Levemir is the best.

all of the following links are coming from the yellow starred stickies at the top of the Lantus Tight Reg forum here: Lantus (Glargine) Tight Reg

Take a look at the starred posts at the top of that forum, especially how to take care of the insulin, and the New to the Group is another excellent

Lantus & Levemir Tight Regulation Protocol


J Feline Med Surgery, August 2009
Intensive blood glucose control is safe and effective in diabetic cats using home monitoring and treatment with glargine.
Roomp K, Rand J.
Source
Department of Computational Biology and Applied Algorithmics, Max Planck Institute for Informatics, Saarbrücken, Germany.
Abstract
Human diabetic patients routinely self-adjust their insulin dose using a protocol and home monitoring, and perform equally well or outperform physician directed adjustments. The objective of this study was to report the outcome of home monitoring of diabetic cats by owners using a protocol aimed at achieving euglycaemia, using ultra-low carbohydrate diets (< or =10% metabolisable energy) and the insulin analogue glargine for >10 weeks and/or until remission was achieved. Fifty-five cats diagnosed with diabetes mellitus, whose owners joined the online German Diabetes-Katzen Forum, were included. An overall remission rate of 64% was achieved in the cohort. Significantly higher remission rates were observed if good glycaemic control was achieved soon after diagnosis: 84% for cats started on the protocol within 6 months of diagnosis went into remission, and only 35% for cats that began more than 6 months after diagnosis (P<0.001). Only one mild clinical hypoglycaemic episode occurred observed despite tight blood glucose control. In conclusion, intensive blood glucose control is safe and effective in diabetic cats using home monitoring and treatment with glargine.
Click to expand...

Here is a copy of the official Protocol, which we can teach you how to interpret and follow, for you to give your vet.
Dosing Protocol for Cats on Glargine or Detemir using daily home monitoring of blood glucose concentrations to adjust insulin dose Don't be overwhelmed by the technical stuff - that's what we all follow on the Lantus Tight Reg forum. it's do-able and its success rate is great. i've seen at least 30-40 cats go off of insulin since i came on this site in february. doesn't mean every cat goes off - i don't want to say that, but the chances are greater with lantus or levemir, following this protocol, than any other.

If your vet suggest another insulin, please ask what the basis of that decision is. many vets are more familiar with older insulins and many don't have as much experience with diabetic cats - although the comment that the vet will hold the dose for 10 days is a good sign. we do feline diabetes here 24/7 for years on end. so the knowledge and experience pool you can tap into here is huge.

so . . . what i would do is switch immediately to low-carb canned foods. Use Janet & Binky's List to help you choose foods. you definitely want under 10% carbs, most of us aim for less than 5% carbs. many of us use friskies pate or fancy feast classics as the basis for our foods. i think walmart has a brand that's less expensive and low carb, but we don't have a walmart here and i'm not familiar with it.

you probably don't want the vet prescribed M/D - many cats don't like it, it's very expensive, and there's absolutely no reason to have to buy food from your vet.

before you shoot any insulin, you want to have some high carb cat foods in your stock - i usually keep 2 cans, and a jar of karo syrup or honey - something that will pull up blood sugar quickly.

you'll want a glucometer - many people use the Walmart Relion Confirm - the meter and strips are cheap. overall, the best place to get diabetic supplies is online. hocks.com and americandiabeteswholesale.com are both good. i use the ADW site and go to it through mrrebates.com - you get a 4% additional rebate on everything you spend. i have a freestyle lite which takes a tiny bit of blood, but some people are concerned that it is less accurate in the higher numbers. i like it, though.

if you want everyone's 2 cents worth on meters, say so. just steer clear of any that have "true" in their name - those are the least accurate.

ok, i've probably overwhelmed you with too much info. i hope not. keep reposting on this thread for now and asking whatever you want to know. we'll do our best to help you.

and don't worry too much - this is something that you can do. we'll help. :YMHUG:
 
Look at the top of the page for a thread on "newbie kits". We have a member who will send a meter, lancets & test strips to you for the cost of shipping.
 
Just started on insulin yesterday. So far, so good. Adding Evo canned into the old food. (Non-doabetic cat won't eat it, so we're still going to have to experiment there.)
Question: He should always eat before the insulin shot, right? About how long before? IOW, how much earlier am I going to have to wake up every day?
 
Poopy says good morning, as he's flopped out on the floor after eating and his shot, and welcomes you and Atticus to the best place to be! cat_pet_icon

I feed Poopy when I get up, and after testing his BG. A half hour after he starts to eat I give him his shot (he's usually finished eating by then). I do the same routine when I return home from work (just at 12 hours later, to keep him on the 12/12 schedule). Sometimes it's more like 12/13 but as long as I stay within an hour of the 12/12 I'm happy.

As far as your civvie eating the same food, my civvie was none too thrilled and only snacked at it the first couple of days. After that she figured out if she wanted to eat, that was the food she was going to get and now eats with gusto. Changing a cats diet can be trying....

Are the foods you are feeding low in carbs? Check out Binky's for some carb info to be sure. :smile: I've picked up a can or two that seemed low in carbs but wasn't under the ideal 10%. Don't forget to have a can or two of high carb food for hypo (just in case), the gravy kinds seem to be best as the gravy is high in carbs.

Keep us posted on Atticus and how he's doing. :smile:
 
If you know he'll eat & keep it down, you can shoot while he's eating. My Cass doesn't notice the shot since he's chowing down when I give it. If he doesn't always eat well or is known to.throw up after eating you may want to wait before shooting (1/2 hour or so).
 
with lantus, many people give the shot while the kitty is eating. unless you can see that kitty feels sick or you have some reason to anticipate vomiting, it's good to test, feed and shoot within as short of time as you can manage. took me at least 1/2 hour at the beginning but now it's maybe 3 minutes.

it's also good for them to eat more than twice a day. punkin weighs 13+ lbs and i give him 1 can of fancy feast (3oz) with his shots and 1/2 can 3 hours later. 12 hours is really too long for a diabetic cat to go without eating, but we like to keep most of the food in the first 3-4ish hours (approx) of each cycle because the carbs are there while the Lantus is strongest. you'll just see better numbers with that. there are a few cats that have reasons for eating in the later part of the cycle, but most cats do best with it early.

Here's a link that will have a lot of good information for you Lantus & Levemir - New to the Group? Please Read

There's a link in there for how to make a spreadsheet and link it to your signature. the spreadsheet is a tool we use to be able to see the pattern between the dosage and the kitty's BG readings. it lets you see at a glance if a dose needs to be adjusted. If you could get a spreadsheet up, that would be incredibly helpful. it's easier to start with it and get numbers recorded as you go instead of trying to add them in later.

just ask if you need help with it - any of this, the blood tests, shots, spreadsheet. just keep asking and we'll keep answering! you're off to a great start.

for monitoring atticus, we learn a lot from the mid-cycle tests. you'll want to hold this dose for about 5 days while it accumulates and begins to work. if you are able to get a test around 3-7 hours after the shot (can be at a different time after each shot) it is helpful.
 
ps - the advice from your vet so far has been pretty great - so he's knows some about feline diabetes and lantus. it's new enough that many vets don't have too much experience with it. you're in luck!
 
Atticus seems to be a little perkier (though he was never really showing much in the way of behavioral symptoms), and Miranda is starting to get used to the wet food. I'm bringing Atticus in to the vet tomorrow or Friday for a blood check to see how he's doing and whether we need to adjust his dose. He still acts really hungry, though, although it's hard to tell whether it's diabetes-related or just his usual chowhound self. I came home from work at lunch yesterday to give them a snack, but I'm not sure I'll be able to do that today, and I certainly can't every day. Yesterday was my first day back after starting him on insulin over the long weekend, so I also wanted to check on him.
I'll be looking at getting a glucometer in a couple days, too. I'm thinking about the OneTouch Ultra mini.
 
Second thought, after going over the numbers for the week (factoring in lab work costs), I think I'll send in for a newbie kit. I trust all the monitors available in those are ones that people like for cats?
 
Hello Fellow Texans~ WELCOME
And of course Atticus.
I purchased a meter - relion micro from w.mart and I believe 50 strips. 27 gauge lancets, ketone sticks and neosporin w/ pain ointment... all from w. mart - was extremely affordable.
You also might want to pick up a pair of baby socks and regular rice to make a ear warmer sock.

Remember that vet stress can raise those numbers during their day curve. Once you start testing at home, those numbers can adjust drastically. Also with changing the foods out. My sugar Bean dropped aprox. 100 with food change! eeeeks...sooo glad I was testing at home.
I would assume that your mom being a diabetic, you are jumps ahead of most newbies...

Hoping Miranda will adjust for Atticus' sake...much easier if they eat the same thing. I have 3 girls. 2 will eat the same thing but Civvie Slappy (16 yrs) just flat refuses to get with the program. Finally, since Beans dx (4/11), Slappy is now eating f.feast chicken only...she hates change in flavors or textures. Momma has to put it in the magic bullet and puree it first, but at least she is finally eating something sugar Bean a be a punk and sneak into and her still be ok.

Bean is now in remission due to this place: gently encouraging me to home test and changing her foods - supplied here...Binkys list.
You have found the best place to be....

Furry paw hugs coming your way!
 
Atticus went in for his first blood check since being diagnosed last Tuesday. Then he was at 484, and today he was at 411. Not as great as we'd hoped, so the vet was considering increasing his insulin dosage (we started on 12/31), but then I told her that I think I didn't administer correctly this morning. (I think I got the angle wrong: I felt resistance going in, Atticus meowed, and there was a big drop on the syringe when I pulled it out). Should have called the vet and rescheduled when I realized I'd done that, but I just didn't think of it. We're going back on Tuesday to check again, and also to try the new glucose meter I should have by then. His weight was steady, though- no loss since last Tuesday, so that's good.
I just need to get better at injecting him. We practiced making the skin tent again at the vet, and I think I've got it now. Need to shoot at the base, not at the pinch!
Such a learning curve!
 
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