Insulin Resistance, probiotics, hairballs

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SHK

Member Since 2012
Not necessarily together! But I have questions about each, and didn't want to flood the board with 3 different posts. I hope that's ok! :smile:

Insulin Resistance - EQ's numbers haven't dropped (sorry, I have a different very detailed spreadsheet and haven't updated this one here, but they're in the high 300s consistently, both pre-shot, mid-day and during mini-curves). Last Friday, we increased by .5 to 3.5u Lantus 2x day. He's eating the proper wet food (always has), and has no ketones. He's still flooding his litterbox, but his drinking increases and decreases in little waves every couple days. We're doing another curve today since I'm home from work. The good news is, he's eating well, and began grooming again last week. A nurse friend thinks he may not be responding quickly to the insulin because his diet was already optimal for a diabetic - so the insulin has to do all the work in this case. She thinks he may have been borderline for a while but we didn't notice because the low/zero carb food kept any symptoms at bay until now. Could this be true? I digress... back to my original question. What are the signs of insulin resistance? How does one determine this is the issue, instead of insulin type, damaged insulin, giving shots incorrectly? I keep questioning everything - is it because I put air into the bottle? Am I not making the proper tent before injecting? Is it because I let the syringe sit out after filling for 20 minutes on occasion, while waiting for him to eat? Is it because it takes him between 1 and 2 hours to eat his food? Ugh, I'm driving myself crazy.

Probiotics - helped when he had a queasy tummy before. We gave just plain old people probiotics - a pinch of the powder mixed with wet food. He vomits occasionally, but has vomited 4 times since the diagnosis. Not a lot by any means, but certainly more than normal for him. He's also been licking his lips a lot, which he does when he's queasy. Is it safe to give a diabetic cat probiotics?

Hairballs - I don't notice hairballs (he rarely gets them), but the times he's vomited there has been hair in it - just loose hair, not clumps. Our normal hairball treatment has sugar in it, so I'm only going to use that on the civvie cat. Can I just give EQ Vaseline, or do I need to get a sugar-free hairball treatment?

Thank you for reading this far!
 
Hi -

I'll take a stab at insulin resistance (IAA). If you'll go to Grayson's spreadsheet, and pull up the second tab (worksheet) that is from his initial treatment beginning in January, you'll see what IAA looks like. The first 5 weeks, we had movement. After that, Grayson "swam in the pinks" for months. I kept thinking it was something I was doing wrong... but when we finally had the tests run, I learned it was insulin resistance. We changed from ProZinc to Levemir, which for the most part has shown us as many as four colors in a cycle... something we hadn't seen the previous four months. As we are currently in week 5 on Lev, and I'm being aggressive w/ his dose, to see if we can stay on top of it. Grayson is not only insulin resistant, but also all indications suggest Acro as well. Keep that in mind, as he is an extremely high dose kitty. DO NOT try dosing your kitty similarly.

If you go on the Acro/IAA/Cushings forum (with the other insulins), there is some extremely helpful information worth reading - several times over, if you're like me. Since you're early on in your treatment, I would assume that it's too early to be showing signs of resistance, so for now I'd keep my eyes on his numbers and read all you can. Once you've got more like 8 weeks of data you might have a clearer picture.

I'll try to check back on your thread, but if you have more questions, and I don't respond here, please feel free to send me a PM.

Lu-Ann
 
I am so "with" you. My kitty Ninja is showing similar, high-flat numbers. I did change out the Lantus, thinking it could be defective and within one day got a number almost 200 points lower than same time the previous two days (276 at +7 on the new, versus 471 and 524 the previous two days on the old). Ninja had never posted a number that low since we started this merry-go-round on June 4. But my joy was short lived; as later in the day (on the new vial of Lantus), Ninja shot up to HI (over 600) on her evening preshot number -- though that might have been related to eating higher carb food too close to shot time; or, maybe if the old vial was not effective, starting her at 2.0 units of the new (effective) Lantus caused some kind of bounce. Not sure as none of this makes sense to me -- and like you, I am questioning EVERYTHING -- my injection technique, Ninja's food, the timing of the food, other underlying illness (like maybe undiagnosed pancreatitis (would that keep Ninja's numbers high?). Vet had me increase to 3.0 units last night, which is where we are today and we'll see how that goes. In short, it wouldn't hurt to switch out the Lantus, though I know (from experience) it is expensive. At least you could eliminate that as one possibility for the high flat numbers. PS: On the new vial, I stopped injecting air into it; same as you, wondering if that makes the Lantus go bad sooner. Will be looking at this post to see if anyone has other suggestions. Good Luck!!!

SHK said:
Not necessarily together! But I have questions about each, and didn't want to flood the board with 3 different posts. I hope that's ok! :smile:

Insulin Resistance - EQ's numbers haven't dropped (sorry, I have a different very detailed spreadsheet and haven't updated this one here, but they're in the high 300s consistently, both pre-shot, mid-day and during mini-curves). Last Friday, we increased by .5 to 3.5u Lantus 2x day. He's eating the proper wet food (always has), and has no ketones. He's still flooding his litterbox, but his drinking increases and decreases in little waves every couple days. We're doing another curve today since I'm home from work. The good news is, he's eating well, and began grooming again last week. A nurse friend thinks he may not be responding quickly to the insulin because his diet was already optimal for a diabetic - so the insulin has to do all the work in this case. She thinks he may have been borderline for a while but we didn't notice because the low/zero carb food kept any symptoms at bay until now. Could this be true? I digress... back to my original question. What are the signs of insulin resistance? How does one determine this is the issue, instead of insulin type, damaged insulin, giving shots incorrectly? I keep questioning everything - is it because I put air into the bottle? Am I not making the proper tent before injecting? Is it because I let the syringe sit out after filling for 20 minutes on occasion, while waiting for him to eat? Is it because it takes him between 1 and 2 hours to eat his food? Ugh, I'm driving myself crazy.

Probiotics - helped when he had a queasy tummy before. We gave just plain old people probiotics - a pinch of the powder mixed with wet food. He vomits occasionally, but has vomited 4 times since the diagnosis. Not a lot by any means, but certainly more than normal for him. He's also been licking his lips a lot, which he does when he's queasy. Is it safe to give a diabetic cat probiotics?

Hairballs - I don't notice hairballs (he rarely gets them), but the times he's vomited there has been hair in it - just loose hair, not clumps. Our normal hairball treatment has sugar in it, so I'm only going to use that on the civvie cat. Can I just give EQ Vaseline, or do I need to get a sugar-free hairball treatment?

Thank you for reading this far!
 
Since you say his ss is not up to date we really can't give more specific advise to numbers. He seems to be surfing the pinks with no large jumps to reds or blacks but no dives into a yellow, either.

SHK said:
Probiotics - helped when he had a queasy tummy before. We gave just plain old people probiotics - a pinch of the powder mixed with wet food. He vomits occasionally, but has vomited 4 times since the diagnosis. Not a lot by any means, but certainly more than normal for him. He's also been licking his lips a lot, which he does when he's queasy. Is it safe to give a diabetic cat probiotics?

It is okay to give probiotics- some give flori flori- you can buy it from vet or online- to there cats, mainly as a food enticement. Some give plain yogurt as well- less sugars in it maybe? You would need to find out.

Hairballs - I don't notice hairballs (he rarely gets them), but the times he's vomited there has been hair in it - just loose hair, not clumps. Our normal hairball treatment has sugar in it, so I'm only going to use that on the civvie cat. Can I just give EQ Vaseline, or do I need to get a sugar-free hairball treatment?

Vaseline is good and has been recommended. I've turned to 'I can't believe its not butter'- which has 0% carbs :-D . Sneakers loves it (she was crazy over margarine and butter but can't have them anymore) and hasn't had any problems as of yet with that since her occasion to try and hack up a hairball 4 times in one night. Disturbing for both of us to say the least since she was on the bed at the time. Twice in the bedroom, one in the bathroom and once in the kitchen. Needless to say she refused to eat the FF Salmon Feast the next few days. This started when she finally felt well enough to start grooming herself too.

I can't tell what insulin you are on so you might be on an inferior one and just need to switch. Good ones are Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc.

As for the insulin resistance... Sneakers has been short-listed for acromegaly- not diagnosed because I can't afford the MRI to say, "Yes, she has a brain tumor" but her test came back positive at 481 (100 and under is normal) for GH-1. There is a test you can get done for both IAA ($15) and Acro ($49- plus whatever your vet charges to draw the blood) If you go that route print off the information for your vet and and order form for the mailing packet ($15) so it can be ordered before-hand.

Lu is correct in saying that you don't necessarily need to be alarmed at raging numbers so early on because EQ is just starting out but if you feel like you want the assurance and can afford to do it then it couldn't hurt. Just remember it might be too early for a true positive- or you might get a borderline answer that would require another test later on or you could get a true positive and start EQ on a new regimen for his special condition. Look over the information and that will give you a better handle on what to be looking for.

YOU are his momma bean and it always comes down to that.
 
Thank you for your responses. It is frustrating to see him still symptomatic. I'm happy for others who can start right out of the gate with low doses that work and kitty feeling better, but I'm like a kid stamping my feet and saying "But why isn't MY kitty feeling better!?" :oops:

hmjohnston said:
Since you say his ss is not up to date we really can't give more specific advise to numbers. He seems to be surfing the pinks with no large jumps to reds or blacks but no dives into a yellow, either
He is on Lantus. I fixed the link in my signature and now it points to the spreadsheet I use more often - the 2nd tab is his BG levels. You are correct. He is surfing the pinks, with a couple spikes into the reds - today's mid-day level was 454(!) and he was sleeping when I got the sample. He's back down to 340 at +9. Poor thing.
 
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