Insulin Question

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rbrumbaugh82

Okay so last weekend on Sunday I took my cat's glucose because my Vet insisted that I only need to check my cat's glucose once a week. So last Sunday when I checked it was 159. That is down from the initial 281 or something like that when they decided he was diabetic. So today I decided to check his glucose instead of tomorrow and I gave him his insulin shot around 9am and I had to wait 6 hours because that is what my Vet said. So I took his glucose reading today at 330pm and it was 96! So would 96 be considered healthy and normal for a cat especially a 21 pound cat? In addition, I gave him his last insulin shot for today at 830pm tonight and I am just worried since it was at 96 that the insulin could drop it lower? I just hope that his glucose is getting normalized and he will be able to go down to just 1 shot a day. So what do you all think?
 
Hi,
On a human meter 50-120 is considered normal range. I guess the reason the vet told you to just check at +6 hrs would because that is usually the lowest point. But not always. One time Hank had his low point at +4 and it was 59! As they say here, every cat is different. That's why home testing is so important.

It's very important to test before each shot. Because if it is 200 or below you do not shoot. You could either wait 30 min and retest, before giving any food or skip the shot. That way you're not stressed and worried about whether he may go too low.

I usually test about 5 times a day; AM pre shot, +5, +7, PM pre shot and then one at +3 or +4 before going to bed. I'm still a "newbie" but I'm learning so much from this forum. Chances are if he was 96 at +6, he was much higher before 8:30PM.

You can take a look at Hanks SS and see that in the beginning I didn't test pre shot either. But then I "saw the light" and realized how important it was to do.

Also, most cats will be on 2 shots per day. After fourteen days of no insulin (numbers 200 or lower) the kitty is considered in remission. That's my goal for Hank.

I hope that helps.

Oh, forgot. What insulin is your kitty on? What food does he eat?

Kimmie
 
I'm sorry, but if I tried to test multiple times a day my Vet would think I was crazy. She would tell me use science common sense because there is no need to test that much and that is why she said to test once a week. I'm not sure what you mean by if it is 200 or below do not shoot. I haven't seen him over 200 since being on insulin and instructed by my Vet I give him a insulin shot in the morning and then evening at around same time. However, I only check his glucose once a week on the weekend instructed by my vet. So I'm not sure what to think other then he seems perkier and in better spirits since being on insulin and being fed wet canned food. I feed my cats Fancy Feast Classic variety except for the seafood blend. I am giving him Novalin N insulin and yes I know its the cheaper kind but accordingly to my vet she said she is going with this to see the effectiveness of it since the other forms of insulin are expensive and she always started with the cheapest first.
 
Hello.

first.... I should tell you that the candle icon means kitty has crossed the rainbow bridge.... so does the rainbow.
You might want to take that icon off.

Second, the reason for testing is to keep your kitty safe. You don't have to go crazy testing but you do want to monitor enough so that you don't accidentally overdose the cat. (I remember one last year that had me in tears)
There have been too many incidents of vets telling their clients ( and you pay him so you're the boss) to just shoot insulin
and not check.
If you had a child, would you risk their life like that? Some do, some don't.
You have found a bunch of us here who "go the extra mile" for our furbabies. And we want to help any one who wants help.

The nice thing about the novalin is that it does wear off quicker..... but that's also a negative.... it doesn't give the cat's
pancreas the full support it needs to deal with diabetes because it wears off quickly.
It rarely covers the 12 hours in a cycle.

The reason for the better ( and yes more expensive ) insulins is that you have a better shot at getting your cat to remission
status. They are always a diabetic, but they could become a diet controlled diabetic. ( My Shadow has been shot free for
2 + years)

If you continue to test so rarely, please print/read How to treat hypos
It's very valuable information and you might need it should your cat drop really low .
 
Okay thanks for the heads up Rhiannon. But no one so far has told me if 96 is a healthy glucose for a cat especially a 21 pound cat? I know it makes sense that I should check my cats' glucose more than once a week and I know that he is on the cheapest insulin but it must be doing something along with feeding the wet cat food and being on the lowest carb dry food possible even though he doesn't eat much of it.
 
Post by Kimmied » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:37 pm

Hi,
On a human meter 50-120 is considered normal range.
Click to expand...

Yes, as Kimmied posted, the 96 is in the normal range.

The problem is that with the insulin you are on, it was likely not the low for the day and you could be at risk for a hypoglycemic episode with not testing your cat. Humulin N is short acting and could very well be peaking at 6-8 hours after insulin was given. Giving another shot of insulin without testing to see how far he's gone back up could be dangerous for your cat. My foster is on a long lasting insulin and went into the 40s and under 3 times less than 3 hours after his shots. Yes, some vets don't think hometesting is useful. Many believe it is very useful in avoiding hypoglycemia.
 
My grandkitty, Hank started out on Novolin N too. He was dx on 7/25/14. My 26 year old son tried to care for him with the insulin for about a month and a half. Each time we took him to get his BG checked at the vet's office it was over 700! My vet mentioned that we could try home testing but said that most don't have any luck with it. He mentioned to do it on the inside (not the outside like we all do) of the ear. He didn't even show us. He would tell us to up the dose, go home and come back in a week or two to check again.

After the second vet visit with the BG over 700, my husband convinced our son to bring Hank to our house so we could try to care for Hank beings I work part time. Hank was in bad shape; lethargic, walking wobbly, would try to jump and miss and fur dull from not grooming.

I got on the internet and typed in, how to care for a cat with diabetes. Up popped the site catinfo.org and felinediabetes.com. I too wanted to trust what my vet was wanting me to do even though people on this site were telling me otherwise. But good thing I didn't cause I probably wouldn't have Hank today.

The vet was telling me NOT to switch Hank's food from Iams dry to canned food cause it would make it harder for him to get Hank regulated. Since Hank won't try the wet food, I decide to order some Wysong low carb dry as transition food till Hank makes the switch. Well, my vet wanted me to up Hank's dose to 6u, immediately! I chose not to cause I was in the process of switching his food and I hadn't told the vet for fear that he would be mad at me. Hanks numbers were dropping even while I mixed the old food with the new food.

When I called to talk to the vet, he listened to me. And do you know what he said? He said, "Great"! "You've got the bull by the horns! I've never had anyone do this much to care for their cat". Wow!! That surprised me! I told him that I wanted to switch the insulin too. He told me that when I was ready to switch ( I told him that I wanted to wait till Hank was totally on new food) that to call back and we would talk about which would be best for Hank.

So in the meantime, I researched Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc, the 3 long lasting insulin's. I also called my pharmacy to get prices on all too. I was thinking about going with the Lantus Solostar pen because my pharmacy would sell it to me one pen at a time for $74. But then I started reading about ProZinc, which is an insulin made for cats. So when I called the vet, that's the one he recommended to me before I could even say that's the one I wanted. He also said that I could buy the insulin from him for $88, which was cheaper than Sam's pharmacy at $128. Oh, BTW, most say that if kept in the refrigerator, it can last up to 6 months.

Sorry that I have written a book but just wanted to let you know that I've been where you are and so have most people on this forum. We are all here to pay it forward by helping others to care for their sugar kitty's. We would never tell you something that's going to hurt your kitty. Vet's mean well but some are trying to make it as easy as possible (to them) to care for a diabetic cat.

It does take work but it will be worth it if (opps, I mean WHEN) Hank goes into remission. Hope this hasn't confused you more. I want to help.

Kimmie
 
Hi,just wanted to say that I wanted to go with Novolin at the start,but my vet was strongly against it and said yes,it is cheaper,but it would be hard to get him regulated on it.I took his advise,paid a little more for prozinc,( it lasts longer in the long run,because you generally won't use as much, I always say,you can pay now or you may pay later)and am so glad I listened to him.My Whitey is doing soooo well on it.Your vet cares about your cat,I'm sure or he/ she would not be in that profession,but they usually don't specialize in diabetes and aren't real current on things.You obviously love your kitty and want to do what is best or you would not be here on this forum for advise.You can chose to listen to everything your vet says or not.Your life,your money,your kitty.But,I can tell you this..if you are able to test and know how,then you definitely should.I was reluctant at first too,but it gets super easy in no time flat,and you will feel like you are in control of the situation,and it will give you peace of mind at all times not just once a week.( I try to do once a week curves though)Please,I urge you to set up a spreadsheet,so the experienced people here can guide you.The rest of us can be your friends and we can uplift and encourage you,as we are all in this together.It does look like your kitty is not an out of control diabetic,thus far,so maybe the Novolin may help for awhile.Your vet is probably looking out for your expenses and means well.This forum is great though for lots of info that you can't get anywhere else!Best of luck!
 
Thanks everyone for your kind words and encouragement. Yes some of the things my Vet says doesn't make any sense. First off, I feel blessed that my cats glucose isn't as high as what many of you say your cats glucose is. I mean at worst from what I know his glucose was 281 and compared to 500+ I can't complain. Since he is eating more wet food from Fancy Feast I don't see him pooping as much but his bowels aren't complete nuggets either kind of soft. I know they don't poop as much now. For the dry food, I am feeding them Nutrisca which is a new food sold in Kroger's and it claims to be a low glycemic cat food but they don't eat as much of it. I was trying them on Young Again Zero Carb but they wouldn't hardly touch it. :( So it has been very frustrating for me to say the least. I have never tried Wysong before so worried if I did try it they wouldn't eat it just like the others. As for the glucose and getting back to what I was going to say, I don't know why my vet only says to test my boy's glucose once a week. You would think it makes more logical sense to test it a few times a week or atleast once a day to make sure his glucose is within normal range. Do I test it prior to giving him his insulin and after he has eaten and then test it again after he has been given his shot to see where it stands? I just know that when I tested it yesterday 6 hours after giving him his insulin it was 96 which to me is normal and where he should be. I just don't know what it was after giving him his 2nd shot last night. Maybe I should have tested it again after I gave him his shot but then again I would have to wait 6 hours since my vet said to test it 6 hours after giving him his shot... My question is, why do I have to wait 6 hours to test? I want him to be on best insulin made for cats but I also can't afford to pay over $100 a month.
 
Most of us here test, feed and than then shoot. We test before each shot and periodically between shots. We test before shots to helpensure that the shot will not make the BG go too low.
 
Do I test it prior to giving him his insulin and after he has eaten and then test it again after he has been given his shot to see where it stands? I just know that when I tested it yesterday 6 hours after giving him his insulin it was 96 which to me is normal and where he should be. I just don't know what it was after giving him his 2nd shot last night. Maybe I should have tested it again after I gave him his shot but then again I would have to wait 6 hours since my vet said to test it 6 hours after giving him his shot... My question is, why do I have to wait 6 hours to test? I want him to be on best insulin made for cats but I also can't afford to pay over $100 a month
Click to expand...

So generally HumulinN will give you a short curve, dropping after the preshot to a low somewhere in the 3-7 hour range . The lowest point depends on how the cat's body responds to the insulin and unfortunately, most often, that varies with the cat. So we encourage you to find your cat's pattern, so you can keep him safe.

If, for example, your cat drops fast, in the first 3 hours, and then starts immediately back up, you can watch for that and help with the low number by feeding or feed earlier to soften that drop. It's a matter of trying to manage the cat's reaction to the insulin in the best way possible and keep him in safe numbers (below 50 and we worry about hypo)

If your cat is one of the lucky ones and does better with N, maybe that low will be later in the 5-7 range and then the insulin will last longer. There is no way to know if that 96 was his lowest point or not, without the numbers around it. If that was his lowest point at +6, that would be great. Then you want to know how long the insulin lasts. Does he jump up 8-10 hours after the shot to a high preshot? Or does it last longer?

Once you have the testing data, then you can figure out how best to help your cat. Sometimes feeding at different times helps, sometimes with N people try dosing every 8 hours (only after getting lots of data) because the insulin only lasts 8 hours. There are ways to work with N but you need data.

And we do always test before each shot. You need to know how high he is - did he bounce back up from a low point or is the insulin not lasting 12 hours? And if he would ever surprise you with a low preshot (under 200) you'd want to lower your planned dose.

A few People here do use N and some have had success. We like the longer lasting, milder insulins because they tend to have softer longer curves - easier on the cat and his parent. We can help you work with N, if you want us to, but only if we have numbers to work with. We wouldn't want to give you ideas about dosing with only limited data.

I hope that makes some sense. Here is a primer on N. It is a little outdated as it was written when it was one of the only insulins available. Few people use it now because there are better alternatives.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303
 
"It's very important to test before each shot. Because if it is 200 or below you do not shoot. You could either wait 30 min and retest, before giving any food or skip the shot. That way you're not stressed and worried about whether he may go too low."

"I usually test about 5 times a day; AM pre shot, +5, +7, PM pre shot and then one at +3 or +4 before going to bed. I'm still a "newbie" but I'm learning so much from this forum. Chances are if he was 96 at +6, he was much higher before 8:30PM."

This is how I test. If someone could send you the link to set up a spread sheet, that is how we track our sugar cat's numbers.

I was worried that Hank wouldn't like the Wysong but he loves both flavors that I have tried, fish and chicken.

Kimmie
 
Would you please tweak your profile? Having a few details which automatically sign each post will help us give you better feedback.

Go to the top left of the screen.
Click on User Control Panel.
Click on Profile
Click on Edit Signature
A text box displays.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name, cat's name,
city and state,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
any other pertinent issues like food issues, allergies, IBD, etc.
 
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