Inappropriate elimination issue help if you can

Status
Not open for further replies.
Peggy and Mickey (GA)

Peggy and Mickey (GA)

Very Active Member
Hi there, I am up for suggestions if anyone has any. In a nutshell, Mickey weighs about 28 lbs was on Prozinc for 7months and we switched to Levemir. Since November he has been pooping where ever he wants to. He has been on 3 rounds of flagyl, tested for heart worms-neg, has been on abs for a URI and another round for UTI. We just had blood tests for major problems and they are negative. He is now peeing on his cat bedding and I am treating him for a UTI as of today. He has also been tested for parasites and is negative.
Some times when he poos it is runny sometimes not.
We feed FF chicken and the other low carb flavors. To all of the cats.
I have 9 cats, there are 2 bowls of Evo that he cannot get to, and I figure if he does, it is low carb.
We currently use Tidy cat litter. Today I purchased Worlds best and another litter box for the kitchen where he is feeling like using the toilet.Here is what the blood results say...I have no idea what they mean.

Cobalamin fasting:
interpretation: results within normal range result 971ng/L control range 290-1499
Folate fasting:
interpretation: results within normal range result 13.7 ug/L control range 9.7-21.6
Pancreatic Lipase Immunoreacitivity Fasting:
Interpretation: NOTE: new Spec flp reference range. Serum Spec fpl concentration is in the normal range. It is unlikely that the cat has pancreatitis. Investigate for another disease that could cause observed clinical signs. result 1.5 ug/L result range 12-82
TLI fasting:
Interpretation: result within normal range. result 12.1 ug/L control range 12-82

So if this is not medical, it must be a behavorial problem. Short of locking him in a room by himself so he is not bothered by another cat, I am at a loss.
The vet gave me tylan powder, it is used for swine flu. It is approved for cats, dogs and other small animals according to the paper work I have.
Also suggested was a steroid. But if he has no medical issues to speak of. I feel no need for that.
Short of xrays,ultra sounds and endoscopys(which I cannot afford) I have no idea what to do.
 
Peggy that is a strange one. You say it's been since Nov., is it all the time? Does he ever go in his box?
 
He has always peed in the box. But two days ago he started peeing on the cat bed. He may have pooped in the box, if I had to guestimate. 3-5 times since Nov. He will even pee in the box, then walk out of it and poop behind a chair.
 
hmmmmm, very interesting Peggy. I would drive myself nuts wondering about something that strange. my first thought is he is mad. he is so mad that he is now crapping on the situation. is he mad about something? is he mad about his box? is he moody on the new insulin? you have put up with him pooping outside the box since NOV?????
well, as a behavior i would think he is NOT liking something. he is not likeing where he is going to the bathroom and he is letting you know.
you changed litter and gave him a new box. does he have to share it?
 
Some cats want to poop and pee in different boxes.. maybe put another box right near the one he uses most. You mentioned hes 28 lbs..is he having any difficulty getting in the box either due to size or arthritis? Maybe he needs a lower sided box.

Make sure you are enzyming all the places hes going o/s box.
 
Lisa

Make sure you are enzyming all the places hes going o/s box.

What do you mean by this? enzyming?
He gets around fine. He just needs steps and chairs to get to where he wants to be.
I am thinking I should get a blood test for acro. Although, I don't know if this would have anything to do with this at all.
 
peggy i just looked at your ss. am wondering why your thinking acro? is the inappropriate pooping one of their symptoms. granted your numbers remain high...are you still pro-zinc? if you are...you might want to go to levemir when you feel ready to try another insulin. it has worked wonders for tom who was hanging out in the blacks and reds.
 
Whenever there is a sudden change in behavior, it may be medical if no other obvious stressors (moving, new cat, etc) have occurred.

If anything causes him pain when he defecates, he may associate that with being in the litterbox. Then, to avoid the pain, he'll defecate somewhere else.

Arthritis and constipation are 2 things that may cause pain when defecating. Do either of those seem possible?

Peeing outside the box may occur if there is urgency - infection and stones are obvious rule outs, but also consider interstitial cystitis, and rarely, cancer may invade the kidneys, resulting in frequent, urgent urination as the kidneys become less effective (happened to a civvie with lymphoma).
 
Re: Lisa

Peggy and Mickey said:
Make sure you are enzyming all the places hes going o/s box.

What do you mean by this? enzyming?
He gets around fine. He just needs steps and chairs to get to where he wants to be.
I am thinking I should get a blood test for acro. Although, I don't know if this would have anything to do with this at all.
Click to expand...

I mean cleaning with an enzyme cleaner like Petastic , Anti Icky Poo etc..

So he can get in the boxes ok.. are the boxes big enough for him?

Have you actually seen him peeing in his bed? That is extremely unlike cats to soil their eating and sleeping areas.. wondering if it smells like pee because hes leaking when he sleeps or something-- or hes trying to poop and pee comes out instead?

Merlyn was having constipation and he would poop whenever he felt the need to poop, hoping to get it out of him. He was straining a lot. I feel that it got worse as his heart got worse because he felt weaker and it was harder to push the poo out.
 
Peggy, someone from lev (Pamela) reminded me to mention prozac for behavioral elimination problems. I use it with Jeddie for his peeing issues. He was peeing on the carpet, in the bathtub, on the front door, and in the boot tray under the litter box, but not in the box. Since I started prozac that has all stopped. I started him on it in Aug and tried to ween him off of it a couple of months ago. Reg dose is 1/4 of a 10mg pill (so, 2.5 mg) once a day and I had gotten to 1/4 pill every other day for about 3 weeks when he started peeing on the door and in the boot tray again, so he is back on the reg dose every day.

I do not know if you can use this for inappropriate pooping - I mean, if it will work or not.

BTW, to me Jeddie seemed adjusted and happy, but he obviously had some sort of anxiety that wasn't/hasn't gone away. I adopted him about 18 mos ago and have no idea if he had these problems in his old home, but his old home was with the person that bottle fed him as a found kitten, so I imagine he was very confused, hurt and depressed about being rehomed. He has playmates here and is very affectionate - even more so since the prozac. I was afraid it would change his personality for the worse (I was imagining a drugged out zombie cat), but it has taken the edge off (that I didn't even know was there).

So, if you think it is behavioral, I would encourage you to give prozac (Fluoxetine, the generic) a try.
 
"Have you actually seen him peeing in his bed? That is extremely unlike cats to soil their eating and sleeping areas.. wondering if it smells like pee because hes leaking when he sleeps or something-- or hes trying to poop and pee comes out instead?"

I have actually seen him poop on his beds. He has ruined 3 so far, and in different places. He has went on my comforter, bed pillows etc.
I haven't seen him pee on the bedding. That is just new in the past couple of days.
I cannot say if he is constipated because it is runny sometimes and sometimes not.
 
Alternating runny and solid stool suggests irritable bowel syndrome to me. The gut goes off in intermittent spasms - uncomfortable to hold.

Several folks here have cats with that and can let you know what has been helpful for them.

FDMB posts with irritable bowel in them in the last year.
 
i was totally thinking animal communicator if she had the money to spend on it. dawn allen is her name.
 
I agree that Dawn Allen is great for behavioral and health issues.

I also agree that it could be arthritis or IBS (pain when using the litterbox)

Norton had arthritis, and our litterboxes were up on a platform to make it easier for me to clean (bad back), which made it harder for him to climb up to use.

When we made a big low sided litterbox, Norton used it.
 
Hi Peggy,
I really thought you said you had Mickey tested for acro in the past and he was negative. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, though. If you did test him, when was it, and what was the result of it? I don't think acro has anything to do with the inappropriate elimination, but it could explain his large size and difficulty with regulation.
 
You mention having used several rounds of antibiotics. Some antibiotics can cause diarrhea as a side effect. Have you tried adding a probiotic to his food while using antibiotics? Antibiotics are not necessarily recommended for a URI, which tends to be viral in nature, unless a secondary bacterial infection is suspected.

Have the UTI's been diagnosed with a Culture and Sensitivity on a sterile urine sample taken via cystocentesis? That will tell you if infection is present, and if so, which antibiotics will work on the specific bacteria. (You can't do this now after starting antibiotics, as they may invalidate the results). It is also possible that you are dealing with a sterile cystitis. In either case, the condition is painful, so you should consider giving medication for pain.

Ongoing issues with defecating could be a symptom of inflammatory bowel disease. I take it that there is no vomiting? Any blood in the stool? Flagyl is a good medication for IBD. Perhaps you should stay on it consistently for a period of months rather than stopping and restarting. Tylan is also a quite effective medication for diarrhea.

In a multi cat household, it is important to have at least as many litter boxes as there are cats. It is good that you are trying different litters, in case there is a substrate aversion to the texture or scent. It could very well be behavioral in nature. If it is possible to isolate him in a room with his onw litterbox, bed, and food, that is a good way to address house soiling issues. He may be feeling threatened in the litter box by another cat. Some people have success with feliway for treating anxiety issues.

If IBD is suspected of causing the problems with house soiling, you may also consider a diet change in case he has some food sensitivities.
 
A few people have wondered if he's having any problems getting in the box because of his size or arthritis. I wonder if he's having a problem lifting his butt high enough. When Maggie got really old she couldn't lift her rear up out of the litter. She wasn't going out of the box, but she was dirty, couldn't clean herself and was obviously upset with that. I used doggie pee pads in a low sided box for her.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top