In Ohio, My Kitty Boo

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emmabirch

emmabirch

Member Since 2014
This week has been a very emotional week. Kitty Boo was loosing weight and had become lethargic. I took him to the vet on Monday and at first he said he thought he was in kidney failure and said it was up to me to do blood tests but that they would be $110.00. I cried..

A little history, I am a 2 times organ transplant on disability. Due to the costs of all my meds, and the limited income, I don't have any extra money for added expenses. My daughter had just gotten her taxes back, and offered to help me and she is currently living with me to help with my costs. There is no way I could pay for my house payment, utilities and food with the cost of my meds. I felt bad taking her tax money also (she pays part of my bills already).

I had a gut feeling that kitty boo was a diabetic as I noticed him drinking a lot and peeing a lot. So I went ahead and did the blood work..The doctor called me later and said his kidneys were fine, that his sugar was 426! So let's get going on helping him. He said that this was not good diagnosis as taking care of a diabetic cat is expensive...again I cried. So I went back to the vet to get his instructions.

Here is the instructions the vet gave me. He sold me Vetsulin 2 units 2 times a day before he eats. He gave me a bag of dry cat food...Royal Canin and to give him 1/2 cup 2 times a day and bring him back in a week. He showed me how to inject the insulin into his neck/shoulder area by pinching up the skin being careful not to put the syringe thru his skin but into the fold. Charged me another $125.00. When he told me to bring him back next Monday to have his glucose tested, the assistant told me that would be $39.00! I told her I was a diabetic and I have a glucometer, but she said they don't work for animals. I am concerned that $39.00 for a glucose test, I wondered to myself how often I would have to bring him..as I test 4-5 times a day on insulin and I am wondering how you can correctly monitor Kitty Boo's blood sugar by testing just 1 time. So I decided to do my own research.

Kitty Boo has been my companion for almost 13 years. He is a beautiful cat with a great personality and the most gorgeous eyes I have ever seen. He was born to a Hemmingway mother, but he took after his father and does not have the multi toes. His brothers do. I also have 2 of his brothers. Kitty Boo is the type of cat that is more like a dog. He greets everyone as they come over because I swear he thinks they are there to see him..or he has to give his approval..not sure which, but he loves petting and attention. Most cats seemed aloof, but kitty boo talks to me, and has been my best friend..he has been there with me through all of my medical problems, and it is time for me to take care of him. We are both getting older, and he deserves the best of care. I came to this board looking for help, and I have been reading a lot on your boards. I thank you for being here and if you have any questions, or suggestions, please let me know. I can use all the help I can get!!
 
Welcome Emma (assuming that's your name) and extra sweet Boo!

Yes you CAN use your test meter for your kitty! Technically it's not calibrated for pets but that's no big deal - 'Normal' for a pet with a human meter is 50-130-ish. Vets like to sell you that expensive 'pet' meter, the strips are VERY expensive. Since you already have meter and strips, you can do your own testing. You don't give YOURSELF insulin without testing first, why would we do it to our kitties? 'We' test before each shot and somewhere mid-cycle to be sure they're still safe and insulin is working.

What kind of insulin do YOU take? I know vet put BooKitty on Vetsulin but you don't have to stay on it. We actually find that Lantus, Levemir and PZI are the best for kitties. Sharing your insulin with Boo would also cut your costs.

Most of us don't have our vets test nor manage dose changes - saves BIG TIME money too!

Take that expensive DRY food back and tell the vet Boo won't eat it...then head to any store for Friskies pate's and Fancy Feast 'classics' (also pate's). The gravy food will spike his sugar so stay with the ground foods. Dry food is HUGE in carbs and BAD BAD for Boo! Just changing food may cause his numbers to be lower so testing is VERY IMPORTANT right now! We can help you learn! It's no big deal - my two diabetics come running when their meter beeps.

BIG HUGS!
 
Vet stress may raise the glucose 100 -180 mg/dL.

Diet change may lower the glucose as much as 100 mg/dL.

Start with a low dose of 0.5 to 1.0 units if you are doing both a food change and starting insulin so you are less likely to risk hypoglycemia - glucose that is too low. It can kill.
 
Hi Emma and Boo!

Welcome to FDMB! :-D

I just wanted to tell you your vet is over charging you and man do I get upset when they do that. :twisted: The folks here will help you as they already have. You being diabetic is actually a good thing for Boo since he can use your meter and your insulin! Cost 0.00! :lol:

Just listen to the kind folks here because they really are experts and if you can get a SS going for Boo that will help them help you. You can home test him in his ear just like you prick your finger. You don't have to take him to the Vet for that so save your money and cancel the appointment on Monday. fancy feast cat food was 44 cents a can today at walmart and test strips for Scooters meter were 9.00 for 50 and his meter was only 16.00. So hopefully that will put you at ease a bit on price. Remember you wont be buying kibble anymore.

Just ask questions you will get answers!!
This is one of the greatest place on earth!

Linda
 
thank you so much for your information, so I don't need the vet to follow him? I can do this myself and use my Lantus/Levimer? I use Levimer and I have some Lantus (I used to use) in the fridge. It is a flex pen..is that ok to use? do I need the vet's approval or do I just do this myself? I manage my own diabetes and keep my A1C at 5.8 to 6.1 with diet and exercise..so I do the same for kittyboo? I am a little scared yet, and I have been in touch with a group that will help pay for kitty boo's meds..but I need a prescription..I know my insulin is expensive, so I wait each year until I am through the "donut" hole and get enough to last me. With my transplant meds, I get into the donut hole immediately, so I have to wait on my regular prescriptions until I get through. I get help with patient assistance each year to get my through the donut hole. I try to keep 6 months of insulin on hand for me. You mentioned canned cat food. I have heard that fancy feast is good as it is high in protein. I got him some..30% protein prior to taking him to the vet..so is the canned food higher? What should I look for? I will go to walmart today to get some food.

Just a little scared, nervous. I guess..worried I won't do this right.

thanks a lot for you help!

Emma (it is my name)
 
Yes, you can use either Lantus or Levemir (pick one and stick with it). I would at the very least advise your vet that's what you want them to do and have them write out a prescription for it (that you don't really need to fill since you already have it on hand). If they won't do it, switch vets. You want a vet willing to work with you and who is up-to-date (or at least willing to be educated) on the latest treatments for feline diabetes, which includes using the right insulin (Lantus, Levemir, or ProZinc/PZI).

Cats metabolize insulin a little differently than humans and have a slightly different reference range for BGs. For example, Lantus and Levemir are dosed twice a day, every 12 hours, and the dose is much smaller (usual starting dose is around 1u). You can use the pens, however, you want to use syringes and NOT the needle tips and draw the insulin from the pen like it's a mini vial. This is because dosing changes are done in .25u increments (since cats are so much smaller than humans) and the pen tips only dose in whole units.

For food, the Cat Info.org website has a nutritional information list on most of the commercial canned food available (you want anything less than 10% carbs, the lower the better).
 
Yes, you should get a prescription from a vet.

You can do a lot of the management at home - home testing means you don't need to take him in to the vet, you can do occasional curves at home (serial glucose tests from shot to shot).

Friskies pates are the least expensive; Fancy feast is roughly double that and only comes in 3 oz cans.

What city are you in? If anywhere near Columbus, Northarlington Vet is where I go. She is willing to prescribe Lantus and is more experienced with ProZinc.
 
I live on the Southside of Columbus. So I am thinking to keep the appointment tomorrow with the vet (I will charge the visit), get the testing and then ask him to discuss options where I can discuss him prescribing Lantus/levemir either or, check his blood sugar.(I will make him do it in front of me so I can make sure he does an ear stick) that way I can see how he does it, and see what kitty boo's sugar is fasting tomorrow after a week on 2 units of vetsulin. At least maybe we will have a basis to move forward and hopefully he will cooperate with me. If he chooses not to, then I will be looking for a new vet. When you say North Arlington...are you talking Upper Arlington? Would that be above campus, or is it closer to Hilliard? I know you can get there both ways. I live down by Scioto Downs off Lockbourne Road.

Emma
 
What is ProZinc? I haven't seen it posted yet. I am trying to read as much of the boards as possible this weekend.
Should I ask the vet to check his urine to make sure it it ok? I know his kidneys (via blood work) was good. and I guess all of his counts were good. They did CBC/liver/kidney functions
 
Emma,

I am on the south side of Columbus as well in Obetz. If you need any help please let me know, I can PM you my phone number. Do you live in Hamilton Meadows?
What vet are you currently using?

Terri
 
What do you want them to check for in the urine?
Ketones? A blood test is better.
Infection? They should do that as a cystocentesis (sterile needle withdrawal of urine).
The fructosamine is a blood test using blood generally drawn from the leg, not the ear. Bring your meter to compare to the lab's equipment and test from the same blood at the same time it is drawn. Note that they will be different and the human glucometer is likely to read lower by as much as 30 -40%, depending on how he is.

Yes, I'm in NW Columbus; my vet is on Dierker Rd, about 1.5 miles west of State Route 315. Probably more expensive than the Parsons Rd vet.

I mention ProZinc and PZI as they are both good and there's less sticker shock than Lantus. I got a quote from the SAM's club on Sawmill Rd with a Lantus pen 5 pack at over $300. Makes me want to get a passport so I can drive up into Canada to get it!
 
Today I took kitty boo back to his vet and he checked is blood sugar. It was 346 and I also did it on my test meter and it was 341 to they were close. I asked him about switching him to Lantus and so he is ok with that. He told me to give him 2 units, but I understand since he only weighs 9 pounds, he should be on a lower dose. He told me I could go ahead and monitor his blood sugar and to follow up with him as needed..preferably at least every 6 months, but if I have any problems to call them. He was very nice and helpful. Terri called me and offered to show me how to do a BG test on boo. He was also good with switching him to wet food. So I went to Kroger last night and got him 24 cans of Friskies pates as they are on sale this week for .50 cents a can. He said I could also give him the dry in his dish to nibble on as a snack as he needs now to gain weight.

Charge today..$39.00

Emma
 
So he's a bit underweight. That will come back as he gets regulated. It helps to feed several small means or leave the food out for 10 hours after each shot. You pick it up 2 hours before the next shot so the next test is not a food influenced number.

The formula to estimate his starting dose is as follows:
The lower of his current weight or ideal weight
In kilograms (pounds divided by 2.2)
Multiplied by 0.25
Rounded down to nearest quarter unit.

If the lower is his current weight (9 pounds), the starting dose should be about 1 unit, every 12 hours.
 
BJ,

I told Emma that 2 units twice a day would be to high of a starting dose for Lantus since Boo only weighs 9lbs per our conversation on the phone. Thank you as you have confirmed his starting dose should be 1unit every 12 hours which is what I calculated as well.

Terri
 
Thank you so much! I will go ahead and switch him over tonight with his 1 unit 2 times a day. I put out 1 can of wet cat food in the morning and leave it all day for him to finish? And if he finishes it I can give him more? I have been feeding him 2 times a day. I feed him in the morning and give him his shot, then feed him in the evening and give him his shot. Should I feed him during the day? If so should it be wet food or dry? Can he have snacks and if so when or what kind?

could someone give me a sample day? Do I test his blood sugar before each meal? after a meal? 2 hours after? morning..mid day...night?

Emma
 
Canned low carb food may be left out for 10 hours at each feeding time. (Test, feed, and shoot within about 15 minutes)

Low carb treats may be given, such as freeze dried meat, fish, or poultry, or cooked pieces of meat.

If the pre-shot test is under 200, wait 30 minutes without feeding and retest. If still below 200 check in with us.

Test around +5 to +7 hours after the shot to see how low the glucose is going. Below 50 mg/dL is an automatic dose reduction.

Also, if Kitty Boo goes below 50 mg/dL, feed 1-2 teaspoons high carb food, post here for support and feedback, wait 20 min, retest. repeat until in safe numbers and rising.
 
Emma,

Have you been able to test Kitty Boo yet? Please try to test him if you can using the ears and if you need help please let us know. We must be able to know what his numbers are.

Terri
 
Not yet. I plan to do it this evening. I have had a most eventful day and have only checked my own only once this morning. I am hoping things will calm down after dinner and I can get a reading for him. I am a little scared to do it. I read all about it from the earlier posts that were shared with me, and I know that it may take a few tries, but it also suggests to have another person to help the first time, so I am waiting on my daughter to help so I need to wait til after dinner. He ate all of his food this morning and I went ahead and put a little more out for him.
 
I am so frustrated trying to get a picture of kitty boo on my profile. Is there anyone out there that can do it for me if I email it to you and you can email me back?

I have used every program I could find to resize it and got it down to less than 9 kb but I can't get the pixels as there is no where I can remove the pixels cat(2)_steam
 
I hope someone is still monitoring this as kitty boo has stopped eating and drinking. I noticed he didn't eat all of his food that I put out yesterday morning so last night I went to give him his food and he just walked away, so I didn't give him his shot. I was up with him all night petting him and talking to him, but he hasn't touched his food.

I even tried giving him the Sheba pate (which is usually a eat it up right away) as opposed to the Friskies Pate. No bathroom no water and no food. I have not given him his shot last night nor this morning. Should I take him to hospital? or wait and see if he eats today..by the way, Boo has always been a vomiting cat..but lately he is vomiting liquid, sometimes clear, and sometimes with a pink or red tint and when he vomits he cries out like it hurts.

Please anyone help? My phone number is 614-748-1044

Emma :cry:
 
Vomiting pink suggests bleeding and a vet visit is needed.
Not being able to eat for 2 days or more puts the cat at risk for hepatic lipidosis, which can be fatal. Again, a vet visit is needed.

If the stomach is upset, 1/4 of a tablet of regular Pepcid (nothing but famotidine), given 20 min or so before eating can help. I think the vet visit should happen regardless.
 
I agree with BJ. My kitty wouldn't eat at one time and I took her to the vet. If your cat is sick, they can help. They can also give appetite stimulanys, fluids etc. please let us know how it goes!
 
Emma,

Please take Kitty Boo to the vet he probably either has pancreatitis or ketones. I would call right now and get him him.

Terri
 
I have an appt for 10:00 so I will be taking him. However I just went upstairs to his room and he was drinking water..and he used his litter box and peed. He snubbed his nose at the food in his bowl, however I opened a fresh can, and spoon fed him and he ate just a little, maybe like an ounce or less...his eyes and attitude seems good, responds well. I am going to have him checked out since it has been a couple months since he has been seen. Just don't have like $100 to spend right now...:( :cry:
 
I would have them check him for pancreatitis, although I am not sure if he could still have ketones I have no experience with a cat having ketones.
My guess would be pancreatitis, but if they can check him for ketones it should would not hurt.

Terri
 
Can you give us some BG readings over the last week or so? There might be something going on, like not enough insulin or maybe too much. Would need to see data to know.
 
Took him to the vet and he did blood work. Boo had gained 2 1/2 pounds and the Vet was very impressed with how well he is doing. However by the time I was seen at the vet his bs was up to 400 because I didn't give him his shot last night nor that morning due to him not eating. His kidneys are normal however his BUN is at the high normal. He told me that I would have trouble stabilizing his blood sugar with what he calls regular food even though I had him on Pate'. So I went ahead and splurged for the diabetic food this time and bought the 3 oz cans, and also a bag of dry as he can nibble on it anytime he said. We upped his insulin from 2 units every 12 hours to 3 units in the evening and 2 units in the morning. I am to call him in the morning. So when I returned from buying the diabetic food, I opened a can and he began eating it..and I wanted me to give him 3 units then and then give him 2 units tonight..then put his food up at midnight and then retest his BS at 8:00 and if it is still high, to go ahead and do 3 units..and then recheck in the evening before he eats and he will either get 2 units or 3 units. He is up to 11.9 pounds now.
 
I am not surprised he was high with no shot, plus vet stress. So the 400 isn't a real number.

What kind of dry food is it? Diabetic dry is usually over 15% carbs so likely his regulation issues are going to get even worse. I can recommend a low carb dry if you want to try that.

Also that mixed dosing is not the way lantus is usually dosed.... Because lantus is a depot insulin, any change needs to settle in the cats system.

If you can get 3 tests a day for a few days before you start the dry food, we may be able to really help advise what's going on. We look at hundreds of diabetic cats every day and might be able to tweak him towards remission.

Wendy
 
Thanks Wendy. The dry cat food is the diabetic made by Royal Canin. I don't know the content but don't a diabetic cat need more than just meat? If they have zero carbs won't that put them in Ketosis?? wouldn't that be hard on the kidneys? I know nothing about diabetes in cats, only in humans, and I have to have some carbs in my diet to get all the vitamin and nutrients, and I just adjust my insulin accordingly.

Today he is still just laying around sleeping, and about 6:00 this morning he was vomiting again as there were 6 little puddles on his floor that I had to clean up, this time the puddle colors were tan not pink, but there were 6 small ones, where he moved around the floor..didn't see anything in them, and he still hadn't eaten all of his canned food from last night..where I gave him a 3 oz can of royal canin diabetic. That is all I am giving him right now. I gave him 2 units of Lantus this morning.

Emma
 
Cats are obligate carnivores (humans are omnivores), which means they do not need fruits, nor vegetables, nor grains. The cat can break down both protein and fat and create glucose as needed.
 
Ok because he is still vomiting (this time it is the color of ice tea), the vet wants me to bring him back at 2:00 for a shot for him vomiting???? I am so confused and so scared...I wish I knew what to do. He is not eating, and is just vomiting with a yelp.

Is he is pain? Is this good for him? I love him and don't want him to suffer and my daughter is telling me he needs to be put down, but I think he can still be ok? He still gets on my lap and lets me pet him, he is crying or moaning...he is just sitting in the sunlight like he always does...dosing.

Help????!!

Emma

BTW it will cost another $28.00 for this shot...and it is good only for 24 hours?
 
So went to the vet and she gave him a shot for vomiting, and I brought him home and put a fresh can of cat food. Terri had called earlier and offered to come to my house to help me with Boo. She came over and we checked Kitty Boo's BS and it was 121. She brought me a meter and a few test strips. The vet said the cat was not in ketoacidocous but told me how to check for ketones. Terri and I discussed what could possibly be wrong as all of his blood work is good. So it may have been all the company I had at my house on Sunday and it stressed out Boo. Anyway, I feel much better. Boo had eaten a little bit of his food, so this BS was after he ate. I have a question for the board though...

If kitty boo's BS is 121 or lower when I feed him at 10:00 tonight, do I still give him the 2 units, do I reduce it, or do I feed him and then wait for 2 hours, test him, and then see what I should give him as at midnight when I go to bed, I take up his food, so I can test his BS tomorrow morning? I am not sure what to do. I have been feeding him and giving him his 2 units but that was when he was eating his whole 3 ounces of cat food. Now or until he returns to his normal eating, I am lost.

Emma & kitty Boo
 
Emma,

Just check to make sure those strips are not expired, I did not think to do so. Emma if you have to tonight and need immediate help, please post over on the Lantus board and put up a 911 icon for help right away. There are many more people on that board than here.

Terri
 
Thank you very much! I really appreciate that you took the time to come over today to help me. I feel more comfortable now to test Kitty Boo's Blood Sugars. And maybe he will continue to rebound from this little set back.

Emma
 
emmabirch said:
...If kitty boo's BS is 121 or lower when I feed him at 10:00 tonight, do I still give him the 2 units...
Click to expand...

1) wait 30 min and retest
a) if he is still below 150 mg/dL, I think I'd skip tonight and start over in the morning.
b) if he has risen above 150 mg and you'll be able to monitor, you might stick with 1 unit.

The formula for calculating the starting Lantus does uses the following steps:
How much does he weigh?
How much should he weigh - more? less?
Take the lower weight.
Convert it to kilograms (ie pounds/2.2).
Multiply by 0.25,
Round down to the nearest quarter unit.
That is the dose you might stick with for the next 5 days, so long as he remains above 50 mg/dL - a safe level
 
Thank you..I know what he weighs but don't know what he should weigh..he was a big cat and weighed 20 pounds prior to diabetes. I might guess about 15 pounds? He was down to 9 pounds in February, and he has gained over 2 pounds and now weighs 11.9 pounds. So not sure but the vet told me 2 units was what I was up to..Started out on 1 unit and went up gradually since Feb to 2 units but yesterday he had a blood sugar of 465 or something like that...today he was 121 after eating when I brought him home after he had the vomit shot, I fed him and he did eat about 1/4 of his 3 ounce can.

Emma
 
I would measure him and see where he is. If he is over 200 I would shoot 1.5 units at the most. But if not, don't feed him, come on here and let us know where he is. We may wait 30 minutes to see what he does without food.

If after 30minutes he still isn't over 150 then skip.

I will be here. Let me know what the test number is.

Wendy
 
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