In layman's terms please... what is a bounce?

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Sue484

Sue484

Member Since 2015
Hi all. Can anyone explain simply what a bounce is and how you know when it's cleared. I thought it was a reaction to going lower than the cat is used to but a bit unsure now.
 
You are on the right track. Bounces can be caused by the cat going lower than it's become accustomed to or from a fast drop. The liver panics and releases 'stuff' to raise the BG. Bounces can last for up to three days/6 cycles. As kitty gets used to normal numbers again and/or fast drops are controlled with an appropriate feeding plan the bounces usually don't go as high or last as long and then hopefully they stop.
 
The only thing with that if they rise fast as a reaction, surely they won't drop back down into good numbers again with one dose, would they? I take it they would rise again but not as high the second dose is that right? My Frankie was in the yellows yesterday for the second time in a year and then rose all the way to +8 and in the balcks when I fell asleep. AMPS he was back in the reds but at least not the blacks again.
 
If the insulin is not lasting long enough, you can see extreme swings from pre-shot to nadir.

When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback without having to go look in all your past posts.

Editing your Signature

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Add any other text, such as
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Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
 
I have been trying but none of the instructions seem to work for me. I will have to try from my laptop tonight as the ipad instructions don't match up to what is showing on my ipad and work is blocking access. Plus I'm not tecchie at all and only had a few hours sleep through checking bloods.
 
I'm kind of a newb myself so take this with a grain of salt but, if it were me I'd do another curve soon like the one you did on 12/4/2014, so we can see how far down his numbers go during nadir. Especially at +5, +6 and +7. But just from what you've got on the ss so far it looks like increasing the dose has helped a little but, the numbers still could be lower. Just my 2 cents. :cat:
 
Sue484 said:
@Elizabeth and Bertie I've filled in the spreadsheet. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hi Sue,
My first thoughts, from looking at the available data, are that Frankie seemed to have been sitting consistently in high numbers until he'd been on 4 units BID for about 8 days, at which point his numbers seemed to drop a bit. And, when the dose was increased to 5 units it looks like his numbers dropped further, but that the increased drop may have caused bouncing. That's my best guess given the data that's available. However, there isn't a lot of mid-cycle data from earlier on so it is possible that there were lower numbers that haven't shown up in the blood testing data. (The preshot numbers from that time are pretty consistent however.)

Was Frankie put on 3 units as a starting dose?
.
 
It is possible he is on too much or too little insulin, as they can look the same. If it is too much, as some point the stored glycogen won't be enough to offset the insulin and he'll drop very low suddenly. The only way to test this would be dropping the dose below 3 units, testing for urine ketones, while waiting for the insulin depot to drain over several days.Its also possible he has some chronic level of pancreatitis causing the elevated numbers, too. Some of the more experienced Lantus folks can give you feedback on the numbers.

Checking between +5 to +7 hours post shot whenever possible will give you data on how low he could go.
A test before bed lets you know if you need to intervene to keep the glucose from going too low.
Checking sometime overnight is helpful as cats often go lower overnight. Some folks set an alarm to do this.

 
He was tested for pancreatitis and ketones last week and that came back negative. We can't really afford to start lowering his dose as he has been on insulin for over a year. He started on Caninsulin at half a unit, being upped at half doses until he reached 8 units and that still wasn't enough. He now has really bad neuropathy so we need to be aggressive in his treatment.
 
OK - the increasing the previous insulin by half units is good to know. That likely rules out too much insulin. You may have a high dose cat.

You've got your spreadsheet up and going, plus you've put details in your signature, so you're ready to start posting in the Lantus forum, if you wish. There are a number of sticky posts on using, storing, and handling Lantus to get the most out of it.
They follow one of these 2 protocols
Tight Regulation
Start Low, Go Slow
Have a read over them to see what makes the most sense for you. Once you settle on one, you add it to your signature, so the feedback given is appropriate to the protocol you're following.
 
Thanks for that. I think he is a high dose cat as he has tested negative to acromegaly and infection. He had a dental in the last month too so no inflammation. All other options apart from food have been ruled out, hence the food experiment going on now. Thanks for all your help.
 
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the food change, Sue. If Frankie is carb-sensitive you may see quite a difference.
Have you started transitioning him to the new foods yet..? (You can record what you're feeding (and any changes to the diet) in the 'remarks' section of Frankie's SS.)

Keeping fingers and paws crossed here for positive change. :bighug:
 
I think he is more carb sensitive to the dry food. There seems to be a dramatic rise when he has that, not so much the wet, although obviously there is a reaction, although Rom has much less a rise on the Felix Senior. I haven't been able to get to Pets At Home so haven't even got any new food yet. I will start after his curve on Saturday. I will pop out in a mad dash between tests!! Luckily he has a cast iron stomach and adjusts well to any new food. Usually he picks the new stuff out of the bowl and leaves the old!!!
 
When you do a curve, you want to be on stable dosing and feeding to get the most useful information from it.
One of the things that can happen with Lantus is New Dose Wonkiness, where a dose increase may prompt high glucose for a day or so.
And if you are in the process of changing foods, the response to changed carb content may need a few days to stabilize.
 
When I do the curve he will have been on this dose for 8 days, plus I am not starting the new food until after.
 
Great! That'll mean the curve data will more glosely reflect how he handles the insulin.
 
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