In Joan Rivers' words, "Can we talk?"

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Jill & Alex (GA)

Jill & Alex (GA)

Member Since 2009
A new member posted their very first FDMB thread in the Lantus TR ISG. She's new to the FDMB, but not new to feline diabetes.

What she asked for: points to discuss with with her new vet.

What she received: a push for hometesting & proper diet, suggestions to set up a spreadsheet and profile, mention of incompetent vets when it comes to treating feline diabetes, a lesson in posting decorum, and links to protocols. It sounded like she was grateful for the links to protocols. :-D

The result: "Thank you all, for the responses. I think at this point, I am overwhelmed. I am crying as I type this, as I only wanted some guidance for questions to ask my new vet tomorrow and have been met with such a barrage of questions ( and advice), and how not to post at 911 alert. I am not comfortable posting any more in this group. Thanks."



There's no doubt each and every response was offered to support and with the very best intentions, but what can we do better so as not to overwhelm a new member with our enthusiasm... to the point of driving them away? Perhaps it's the tone of the advice? Perhaps care should be taken to address the poster's questions only... leaving "other" advice for later? Perhaps cutting new posters some slack? Perhaps we can give some thought to "piling on"?

This is a great group with a huge knowledge base. We have lots to offer! We can avoid this problem if we put our heads together.

Ideas? Let's keep this positive.

Please discuss...
 
You make an excellent point. Maybe if a new poster has specific questions, a good procedure would be to try to stick to answering those questions as concisely as possible and simply mention that there's lots more info in the stickies when they're ready, perhaps with a link or two. All the requests for more info, an SS, a profile, etc. especially can be daunting for someone starting out or who simply has a question and hasn't decided to become a fully participating group member. There will be individual circumstances of course - for example if a newbie is asking "Am I giving too much insulin" it's impossible to answer without more info.
 
When you are new and you ask a question sometimes, you just want the basic answer to those questions. Even the stickies can be overwhelming for a new poster.
When I was new all that was basically gibberish to me, I would read it and I was overwhelmed I too would cry and get frustrated and my vet was no help whatsoever.
It so much to throw at a new person before you will answer any of their questions or help they must switch their cat to wet food, they must get a spreadsheet up to look at, they must start testing their cat right away.
I understand the need to keep the cat safe. But, sometimes people just need a little compassion and understanding and and I think there are wonderful people on this board with a wealth of knowledge that are able to do that.

Terri
 
This is a tough one.

Considering people help out here on a volunteer basis and have lives of their own, it's easier and more efficient to post a cookie-cutter "Hi, Welcome, this is what we need to know and what you need to do so you can help your cat" than tread carefully and hold their hand in case they might be scared off and disappear. I think the poster in question showed up on the Facebook group initially and then was re-directed here. How *do* you know they want baby steps and minimal info vs the unfortunately overwhelming info and learning curve that makes them leave? You don't. Hopefully she will return.

I can think of a few regulars here who initially were defensive and resistant to "guidance" and then later realized "Wow. They were right. Thank you FDMB!" But how to get from one mental state to the other....? Perhaps some of the newer members can advise on that experience.

I haven't read the various stickies in ages, but is there anything in there that could be softened more and emphasize that we can't always do it all 24/7, every cat is different, every bean is different, etc., while still providing the information that is needed to help sugarcats?

MJ
 
terri1962 said:
It so much to throw at a new person before you will answer any of their questions or help they must switch their cat to wet food, they must get a spreadsheet up to look at, they must start testing their cat right away.
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MJ+Donovan said:
I haven't read the various stickies in ages, but is there anything in there that could be softened more and emphasize that we can't always do it all 24/7, every cat is different, every bean is different, etc., while still providing the information that is needed to help sugarcats?
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Something that seems to have been forgotten in recent years...

In the past, those new to feline diabetes were encouraged to post on the General Health forum to learn the basics of feline diabetes... including, but not limited to hometesting, diet, and setting up spreadsheets BEFORE they were channeled or ventured into the ISGs.

Today, more often than not, newbies are sent directly to the appropriate insulin support group. The Lantus Tight Regulation Support Group is pretty much the equivalent of an accelerated course with Lantus/Levemir. I can see how newbies would become overwhelmed quickly. They haven't had time to master/been offered the basics before being thrown into a method which almost requires a basic understanding of insulin use, as well as diet and the use of spreadsheets. Many are still shell-shocked from the diagnosis and are trying to figure how they'll integrate caring for their kitty into their daily lives. It's no wonder new members become overwhelmed!

IMHO, newbies would feel less overwhelmed if they spent more time on Health before arriving here because they'd have the basics under their belt. Personally, I think we're doing a disservice to new members by sending them straight to an ISG... especially a busy ISG which offers an accelerated version of caring for feline diabetics like the TR ISG.



Just my thoughts...



PS --- Thank you to those who have responded so far! You've all brought up good points and given us food for thought.
 
There's currently a discussion in Think Tank about giving advice that ties into this.

Aside from what I've posted there, I think something to remember is that giving smaller pieces of information at once would be easier for the recipient to
"digest", which also requires using a little discretion based on their original post. Is the person asking for lots of information and eager to learn at this point, or does he/she already sound overwhelmed and upset? For example, a while back I noticed that someone posted who was obviously struggling a bit with the English language, yet some people replied with giant posts full of technical information that would have been extremely difficult for the poster to understand.

Like watering a plant - a flood of information is not the best approach. After the poster's ACTUAL question is answered, if there are other things that should be addressed, perhaps each subsequent poster could pick one to briefly mention, and offer more detail as the original poster asks for it.
 
Even tho' it's been almost 2 years now, I still remember showing up here having been blind shooting Humulin N for almost 2 months. I'd asked my vet about testing, he said "I know some people test but you don't NEED to do it"....that translated to "I don't know HOW they do it so I can't teach you". I had the following issues:

1Q) I didn't know what diabetes WAS other than a word I heard often and shots were required...
1A) I STILL can't find a document that covers WHAT diabetes IS and what causes it. I find docs on treatment, ones that begin "Now that your cat has diabetes..." but nothing that describes what SHOULD be happening and what diabetes causes to happen.

2Q) I didn't know there were several types of insulin that work differently
2A) I STILL have to dig deep into documents to figure out there are different insulins - we need the newbie doc to contain a SHORT blurb about each insulin. It needs to be carefully written so as to not degrade some insulins while touting the wonders of another.

3Q) I didn't know that insulin was a HORMONE rather than a chemical type mixture like a thyroid pill - find the right dose and you're 'fixed' forever.
3A) This is one of the VERY FIRST things that new people need to understand....very few people actually deal with a 'medicine' that is so variable. They go to doctor, get ab's and get well, they go get thyroid meds and 'get well' - why didn't this make my kitty 'get well'. I MUST be doing something wrong and failing....

4Q) I didn't know there were other places to shoot besides the scruff as that's what vet showed me
4A) Scruff is fine at first but this will be a question when they begin understanding all this.

5Q) I didn't know FOOD contributed to high numbers - never a word said at vet about getting off dry food
5A) The EFFECTS of carbs needs to be explained simply - no demanding 'get off dry' but helping a new person understand what the EFFECTS are and let them digest that part. I'll bet MOST people feed dry - thousands of cats do fine their whole lives.

6Q) I didn't know what 'NORMAL' numbers were
6A) Normal numbers - just a simple listing of 'normal' AND simple definition of 'renal threshold'. As long as I can keep KT below that renal threshold, I feel much better than constantly trying to force him down into low low numbers and feeling like a failure when that doesn't happen.

7Q) I didn't know anything about meters other than what I saw on TV
7A) Simple explanation of meters - not that big huge spreadsheet, that's TOO MUCH immediately. Touch on the fact that it's not the cost of the meter that will break the bank, it's the STRIPS. I so focused on the initial cost and didn't have any idea I needed to think about it the other way around! I was lucky, I chose a good one the first time...

8Q) I didn't know what the word "Harsh" meant in relation to Humulin N - everyone kept repeating the same word. MOST people come here on Humulin N first...
8A) QUIT using the word HARSH when it comes to Humulin - I repeat - QUIT! PLEASE! That means nothing at that stage other than the human is using poor judgement. Instead, EXPLAIN the REASON - it doesn't last 12 hours, it causes numbers to drop much quicker because it all acts at once rather than slowly. THIS is the REASON, 'HARSH' is NOT a 'reason'.

9Q) I was CONFUSED - JUST TOTALLY CONFUSED!
9A) Tell me you UNDERSTAND that I'm confused and don't know WHAT to ask!! My cat's sick, I've now got to learn to stick him with a syringe, I have to stick his ears, he'll HATE ME! I HATE ME!

I've since tried my best when I DO greet a newbie to keep each of those points in mind. WE NEED A NEWBIE DOCUMENT! We DO throw way too much at new people. I remember I didn't go read sticky's when they were posted for me - they were too overwhelming and complicated right then. If someone took the time to post that part of the answer from the doc, I WOULD read it, I just wasn't ready for the stickies at first.

This is all just MY TWO CENTS!
 
I don't look at Health all the time, and generally lurk here just to keep up on things. It's tough with multiple avenues available: Health vs. different insulin groups vs. Relaxed vs. Tight @-)

The problem remains: how do you know if you tell a new-ish poster to do "X" that their reaction will be "Sure, OK, thanks for letting me know" instead of "OMG, why is everyone picking on me, I can't do this, I'm leaving" ? Such are the unfortunate limitations of the written word. Even if you think you are being gentle and supportive, they may be in such a wound-up state that anything you say will cause a meltdown.

I know I read a lot and Googled a lot when I found out my Donovan was diabetic, and then I found FDMB. Still, even when I knew what had to be done, it took me weeks to build up the courage to do it. And I confess that even then I didn't do everything to the letter. Ha, I just typed out all of the "no-no"'s I violated but then deleted it :oops: ;-) Don't want to set a bad example. But suffice to say that there were things that perhaps should have been done that for various reasons I could not and did not. I did what I could, and maybe that is something that needs to be emphasized more for the newbies. Baby steps. Once you get a better handle on basic treatment protocol, then you can adjust and be more confident about caring for your sugarcat.

Kudos to you all who have treated your sweet kitties for years. I was blessed that Donny went OTJ in 10 months, and of course would have continued to do whatever he needed from me had he not gone to the Bridge so suddenly. You are an amazing group, and as has been said many times:
"This is the best place you never wanted to be."

MJ
 
Jill & Alex said:
IMHO, newbies would feel less overwhelmed if they spent more time on Health before arriving here because they'd have the basics under their belt. Personally, I think we're doing a disservice to new members by sending them straight to an ISG... especially a busy ISG which offers an accelerated version of caring for feline diabetics like the TR ISG.
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Thanks, Jill, good discussion.

I totally agree with the above, however that doesn't seem to be the reality right now, for whatever reason. Unless that shifts again, and whether or not I agree with the current state, I think all of us need to try to keep in mind that we deal with at least two categories of members in LL: those who are here for TR advice, and those who just need to put some Lantus into the cat as safely as is possible for their situation.

I'm the first to admit that I am WAY better at dealing with TR people than new people. It's hard when you KNOW something is the right approach and you want to share that knowledge with everyone! You want to see everyone get their cat healthy quickly. It takes a lot of time and a lot of patience, both of which are things that I seem to be lacking these days. ;-)

When dealing with someone who is new here, a good approach might be to pick the ONE change that can make a big differerence, and make it easy for them to accomplish that one thing (usually it is getting a spot check or two, but whatever). Then hopefully they will learn something and be ready for the next step, or maybe the lightbulb will come on and the will say "hey, yeah, I want to do TR, let's jump in with both feet." Things like posting conventions are helpful for us, but they won't help make the cat healthier so they can wait. And yep, I am one of the ones who advocated most strongly for these posting conventions when we changed to this board format. I don't want to see them go away for regulars because they do make it much, much easier to manage the traffic in LL, but there is a time and a place.

OT maybe, but personally I really dislike when people copy/paste the canned with everything they know about FD. It's all important, but it's too much. Remember, it probably took you months or years to learn all that you know, don't spew it all over someone on their first day! That is the kind of thing that makes people think FD is hard and something they might not be able to manage.

Stickies: they all contain great information that we all need to learn, but most people can't learn it all at one time. Going back to the two types of caregivers posting here, understand that several of the stickes are specific to the Tight Regulation Protocol and will be confusing to someone who is just trying to give insulin to his/her cat. Rather than saying "Read the stickes," try saying "have you looked at the Storage and Handling sticky? That's a great place to start." (of course pick whichever sticky answers their specific question). I remember reading the stickies a zillion times when I was new, and being confused by a lot of things, but then Lucy would suddenly move to a new stage in her sugar dance and suddenly "oohhhhhh, NOW I understand why they keep asking me to get a +11!"

"Piling on" is something that happens here all the time (in LL and in Health). I don't think it is intentional AT ALL, I think people are just trying to be supportive, but there are so many of us that I think we can accidentally overwhelm someone when really we're just trying to be friendly. If 17 people stop by a condo and say the same thing, it can feel like piling on even if that is not the intention. I suggest reading through what has already been posted, and rather than saying the same thing again maybe just say something like "it looks like you are getting good advice, welcome!" Or course if you have something new and helpful to add, then by all means add it.

Just a few thoughts I have had on this topic. Thanks for bringing it up!
 
Thanks for posting this, Jill.

Everyone who hasn't should read the TT discussion that Kay mentioned.

OT, but I personally try not to use the word "newbie". It has always carried negative connotations to me. New member or "newmem" sounds so much nicer.

I agree with Libby. Using the "copy/paste" method to dump a ton of info efficiently might seem like a good thing, but usually results in overload. It also makes your advice sound less sincere.

One thing that might help when a person is really new is to keep your posts short and sweet, like a hundred words or less. Not only will that help the receiver of the advice, but it will insure you are only supplying "need to know" info that addresses only their question or comment.

Carl
 
I agree with the piling on thought.
Last night , I had typed a reply and was asking if she was testing or not and saw that it had already been asked as I was hitting the submit button
so I didn't submit it.
The question had already been asked.
I just watched instead for the answer.

One step at a time... and too many cooks in the kitchen ...
 
I think back to the first few days after my cats diagnosis. I was insanely overwhelmed and cried for a few days straight. Even the information I received here was a little overwhelming.. BUT… I am so glad I stuck with this site. If it was not for the “little push” that I was given about hometesting – I don’t know if I would have started hometesting so soon. I must say that I am so happy I learned how and started hometesting.

I think some of the new members need that little push – while other members just need support. I just think its very hard to tell which members need what.

I think to help someone – even if they just want ideas on questions for the vet – we need to know a little information on the cat. For example: what kind of insulin the cat is currently getting. That way we can explain how that insulin works and what questions they could ask the vet pertaining to that insulin. Then once the new member answers this question I think we tend to get kind of “side-tracked” and we forget what the original question was and we start throwing in other advice instead.

When I see a new member, I do try to offer my support – but I do not feel as though I can offer much advice quite yet as I am still learning. I usually just say something like “welcome –I am here to support and cheer you on – I am still learning too so my only advice is to ask any and all questions you have so that a more experienced member can help you”… I realize that my comment isn’t very helpful… but I know when I was new here – I thought it was great that even new members who couldn’t offer advice – were still offering their support and encouragement. Some people may like receiving the support and encouragement while others may think : the more replies the more overwhelming.

I think that for these reasons above - that it is a little hard to draw the line between offering help and overwhelming a new member.

I think about how overwhelmed that new member must have felt to decide to not post on this board any longer – and I do feel really bad about it. I sure hope they decide to come back – and if they do I think we all just need to try our best to be helpful but not overwhelming – even though I realize sometimes it is hard to see the difference.

I think maybe an idea could be: before we post to a new member – we should read what we are about to say – and think back to when we were new here and ask ourselves “does this sound too overwhelming” “am I helping this member with what they need help with” “can I word anything a little differently to make it sound a little less overwhelming to a new member” “is the information I am giving necessary and helpful at this step”

I realize that all of us here just want to help others. I think everyone here does an amazing job at helping newer members – and I realize it is not too often we push a new member away – so if there is anything better that we can do to make sure that not even a single person is too overwhelmed that they leave – I think its worth a try.

I really think everyone here is absolutely wonderful and helpful. I think you all do a great job in helping new members. And while I was listing some of the ways that we overwhelm new members – I want you to know that at the same time I know you all do a great job helping people and I am so grateful for all the help I have received as well. Although we couldn’t help this member – I don’t think anyone should get discouraged, because I know another member can be helped.
 
I think everyone has made good points.

What I often struggle with is trying to answer the specific questions that a new(er) member has posed. In many cases, a simple "yes" or "no" response isn't an adequate answer or I need to qualify that reply. Likewise, in order to answer a question, more information may be necessary. As an example, if someone doesn't have a spreadsheet and the only data we have is that day's AMPS, for me, it's not possible to answer, "Should I increase my kitty's dose?" Answering based on such limited information would be neither prudent nor safe.

In cases like with the OP who raised this concern, the gist of the question (talking points to discuss with her vet) is very broad. Many of the responses do touch on those talking points (e.g., food, home testing) but perhaps the way the responses are slanted comes across more as suggestions for the caregiver to enact vs. items to discuss with her vet. There can be a fine line between providing information that may (or may not) be helpful vs. what to ask a vet. It can be hard to do either without background information.

I truly believe that everyone wants to help. I agree that it's easy to forget how stressful the beginning of this process can be. I also suspect that we'd all like to do what we can to prevent someone else from being as stressed as we were early on. The strategy of "if I knew then what I know now" is admirable but likely adds to someone feeling overwhelmed if everyone who's posting is providing their personal list of where to not make a misstep. The other challenge is not knowing what someone's baseline of information may be. It's never easy to sort out all of the variables.
 
That is one of the things I like about Sienne's replies is that she qualifies the reply. It helps a lot!

What I often struggle with is trying to answer the specific questions that a new(er) member has posed. In many cases, a simple "yes" or "no" response isn't an adequate answer or I need to qualify that reply
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I think we need to be careful to not push what we think is best on a new person. They have to make the decision on what they will or will not do based on their personal situation. I think it is best to list a suggestion of what is helpful to a cat and explain why it helps and then leave it at that. We have to be careful to not keep going back and harping on that thing if the person is not doing it. If a new person asks and seems open to trying something new, then I think it is okay to bring it up again.
 
If it helps,

Lyresa mentioned not fully understanding Diabetes as a whole back in the beginning. I wanted to send along this link I happened upon while re-acclimating myself to the FD world when Tiki came back from the falls. Others may find it helpful as it offers Sesame Street-like animation that does a good job of explaining Diabetes to us non-medical professionals.

If you click on the links to the left of the "price tag" under the header "Caring for Your Diabetic Cat" they will each play a video without the need of having to buy the DVD. Please note it's sponsored by Purina but they don't hit you over the head too badly promoting their products.

http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/pet-owners/diabetic-cat
 
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I think this is the perfect thread to get some opinions on something I struggle with a lot...

When someone says they just can't make themselves test and asks if their cat will still be ok, HOW do we answer? In cases like that, if we're not careful we're going to lose the human and maybe even the cat when we tell them something 'scary' to show how important testing is. On the other hand, I looked at KT's spreadsheet - he's a bouncy diver. If I hadn't gotten a preshot test 9 times since January - numbers were as low as 49, highest I counted was 71. Without handling that correctly, I would likely have killed my cat shooting his regular dose and going about my day. In all but one case he was acting fine, wouldn't have had any idea he was that low so 'watching for signs' wouldn't do any good. NOW, IF I tell them THAT, I'd be the one guilty of losing human/cat.

Opinions please....
 
Just food for thought, as a relative 'Newbie' what I have struggled with is trusting the advice - at the start.

Maybe it's because I am in the UK and this is mostly an American site, but at first my husband called this site 'the nutty Americans' :lol: as the advice was so at odds with what the vet was telling me!

I think it's important to bear in mind that people in general trust their vets, and I personally struggled with going against her advice (I was advised not to home test too much at the start, amongst other things). You are paying for the professional advice, it's a brave and difficult step to decide not to take it, and take the advice of 'something/someone you met on the internet. The vets warned me countless times not to believe everything I read online.

I honestly wish wholeheartedly that I had followed your valuable advice from the start, I could have saved myself a lot of money and heartache - however I just was not ready to do it. It was too far at odds with what I was getting told from the vets and I have had a long (and expensive) battle to get the Lantus/low carb combo we are now battling with.
I think it's also a case of change one thing at once, not everything. You learn in stages.

Being asked to constantly read stickies can be overwhelming, It's very helpful for someone to post the relevant bit into a 'condo' (still can't get used to that - we call them 'posts' - lol)

Also - I think staying in health for a while is valuable. I am still hanging around here as a lurker and learning slowly. There are some great advice givers and I will be forever grateful to Eliz from the UK for holding my hand in the beginning and totally understanding where I was coming from. She also only ever answered my original question, and didn't push me in any direction - just showed me where the door was.

Sometimes just a gentle question of 'how are you feeling?' can open more from a newbie - than giving them the advice we know they need, but are probably not in a place to absorb. Sympathy and empathy is a great place to start getting to know someone?
 
When someone says they just can't make themselves test and asks if their cat will still be ok, HOW do we answer?
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Lyressa,
In a case such as that, I don't see how we can do anything but answer honestly. It might "scare" someone, true. But to not caution against "shooting blind", we'd be at odds with the "do not harm" credo, wouldn't we? We surely can't just say "Yes, Fluffy will be okay if you don't test before shooting".

I usually try to equate it with "driving down the highway with a bag over your head". Or I try to put it into human terms, like "If it were your infant child, who could not possibly communicate to you if her BG was high, low or normal, could you give insulin without knowing for sure?" We at least have to explain the danger in not testing, and it is possible to do so without resorting to "you could kill Fluffy!"

In all but one case he was acting fine, wouldn't have had any idea he was that low so 'watching for signs' wouldn't do any good.
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Unfortunately, once the "signs" are obvious and visible, it could already be too late, and an emergency trip to the vet might be the only option. I've told people that they need to get in the car and bring a syringe full of karo with them just in case. I sure wouldn't want to be the bean racing down the highway with a seizing cat trying to squirt karo into a moving target with one eye on the road.
 
Harrycat said:
Sometimes just a gentle question of 'how are you feeling?' can open more from a newbie - than giving them the advice we know they need, but are probably not in a place to absorb. Sympathy and empathy is a great place to start getting to know someone?
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Absolutely!

First of all, as a newbie (joined in Feb this year) I just want to thank ALL OF YOU for your kindness and commitment to helping cats with FD and their owners! Just the fact that you people are here giving your time and hearts to us through this discussion and website really warms my heart.

Even though that one newbie got overwhelmed (who isn't?) and declared his/her intention of not posting here again because if it, it may not be the end of that story. As another poster said, we really want to trust our vet to know the most about our kitties. Maybe her kitty will do fine following the vet’s instructions; if not, she may come back and dig a little deeper here.

My journey getting here took a few months (switched to canned food on my own after lurking here and on catinfo.org back in Nov 2012, stalled on consulting a vet until Feb 2013), taking steps only as big as I could handle at the time. Once I got here and really learned about the TR protocol though, I was kicking myself for not getting here sooner since the chances of remission are so much better the sooner the protocol is used!!!

So my 2 cents is that while we don't want people to be overwhelmed with too much attention that feels like demands and turn away, we don't want them to miss their best chance at remission either. Perhaps it would be helpful to focus on just a few essential messages in a "New Member – Read Me First" sticky or letter on Health that allows the person to quickly find the information and support they can handle at the time. Maybe some recent personal success stories/videos? The stories on the felinediabetes.org page are quite old.

Lots of good observations and ideas here! There may not be a 1-size-fits-all way to approach newcomers.
 
I'd like to personally thank everyone who has taken the time to share their thoughts so far. When I thought about posting this I was concerned the thread may be filled with justifications for what we do here rather than taking an honest and deep look in the mirror to examine what we can do better so as not to overwhelm newbies to the point of driving them away. My second concern was that it had the potential of becoming a "witch" session... if you get my drift. ;-)

I'm thrilled to see some real thought given to responses and interactions with new members as well as seeing new members share their feelings. There's some great ideas and thoughts in this thread! Keep 'em coming! I hope more members (new and old) will continue to weigh in with their thoughts on how we can do a better job. Basically, this thread is not about justifying what we do... it's about: What can we do better? For this reason, I'll continue bumping this thread every time it gets buried. :mrgreen:

After all, this is not the first member to leave this group or for that matter, the FDMB. And who knows how many are out there lurking... afraid to post because they're scared of our disapproval if they feel can't live up to or meet our so-called expectations... whether those feelings are real or perceived?

If nothing else, I hope this thread will provoke thought.

Thank you!


PS --- I did send the overwhelmed member I mentioned in the first post an apology and told her I hoped she would consider coming back.
Unfortunately, the PM has not yet been picked up.
 
Thanks, Jill. I've been busy but wanted to have a chance to put my thoughts in some kind of articulate post ;-)

I think we all are so anxious to help people and we sometimes lose sight of what the member is asking.

How can we do better? For me, I've been thinking it's important to try and identify the needs of the member that is posting. I was thinking it's somewhat analogous to methods we use here to manage FD: TR or SLGS

TR is more aggressive, requires a little more "attention to detail" to a certain extent, etc.

SLGS is a more laid back, a little slower, etc.

So then I think of personalities and how they sort of fit that regardless of what protocol the member chooses to follow. In other words, I am definitely a TR personality (read major TYPE A) :roll: :-D . Mike and I tend to be more aggressive and as new members, we were not easily overwhelmed. Mike and I had read all the stickys, made our folder, had all the emergency info and hypo symptoms posted, put together a hypo kit, had all our supplies, had looked at all the hometesting videos, etc etc before we even tested or shot the first time. Our thought to information was 'bring it on" :-D We had a thirst for every detail (still do) and, as many of you longtimers will remember, asked a gazillion questions and were known for long condos. We wanted to know everything as quickly as we could to see if we could get Gracie OTJ. Maybe we tend to be that way because there are two of us to absorb it all so what one of us didn't get, the other one did.

But there are many, many members (probably most) who are more SLGS. They need information brought to them a little at a time so they can absorb it. They don't need those massive info dumps we tend to do. They are focused on what they are trying to learn and so our constant "fix your subject line", "post yesterday's condo", "read the stickys", etc in the first few weeks IS overwhelming.

Neither is right or wrong....it's just our different personalities and so I think we all need to try and identify, with each member, what is it THEY need? Do they want the massive info dump? Or do they need us to start slow with them and just give them what info they need as they ask for it?

Sometimes it's hard to make that determination with one post by a member. In that case, I think we should really focus on what they are asking for and, until they ask for something else, just address that issue. And let them know we are here if they have any other questions.

That's my crazy analogy...my EBID (every bean is different) thought but this is a good wake up call for me to pay more attention to that.
 
I was on Health for 9 months before being told to post in LL. We had one Lantus group. The motto I remember was start low, go slow. Yes, we did become aggressive about shooting low numbers as our comfort level and knowledge increased.

In my opinion, for many it is overwhelming when you receive the diagnosis of Diabetes for your kitty. I think most wonder if you will both survive. All the stickies, testing more than 2x daily, no dry food, testing for ketones, financial restraints, time constraints. Lantus also had a dictionary of terms used on the forum. Trying to learn all the information for treating a diabetic kitty and the slang terms in the dictionary, to understand some of the abbreviations used, was daunting. One of the things that are no longer posted is WCR (well cat report). A general description of the overall health of the kitty. That was considered an important piece of information.

When someone new posts answering the questions is the best approach. When they are general questions, answer the general question. How much information do we need for that? The personality of the individual is important in how they will accept information. From one post, you do not have much insight into that. The goal is to get them to treat their kitty. I remember on member who could not test she used urine sticks. Let them start there, it is not accurate but it is better than shooting blind. Build their confidence.
It is my perception that if someone does not adhere to the advice given by some of the experienced individuals, they simply stop posting in that condo. What does that solve? That is not meant in a negative way. This is about the kitties, their safety and the beans and their abilities. Some take longer than other to realize the information they are being supplied does work.

Some vets are resistant to the manner in which we on the forum treat our diabetics. Home testing is not recommended by many. Why? If not for the forum, a vet would not have the time to hold a client’s hand if their kitty was low. He/she could not support a practice and spend time on the phone. Do they know much about food? All my years with horses, dogs and cats, no, most don’t know much about diet or food they recommend. It is not an area in which they receive a lot of training. Most physicians are lacking in that area also, that is why we are often referred to dieticians.
In summary, I believe we need to tread lightly with new members, welcome them, answer their questions, and let them digest what they have been told and read. When they return guide them. We are all individuals and our learning curves vary greatly along with the emotional trauma when our kitties are diagnosed.

This is a great forum. Many kitties have benefited from all the information here. There are always differences of opinions, which keep the information fresh. Be it TR or Relaxed, that is up to the individual and their ability as to which they can follow.
 
Tight Regulation is not for everyone. Some people can, some people can't. That is the way life is.

I think more than anything else, people feel overwhelmed because they feel they don't have the time nor the resources required to do what it is asked of them.

IMHO
 
Great thread Jill and thanks for opening this discussion.

So what do we know... being a new member here can be overwhelming
What don't we know... how every new member will react to a new FD diagnosis and all of this information

Just like ECID, there is also an EMID - each member is different. My experience, still as a new member, has been scary, wonderful, exhausting, emotional, etc. to say the least. Everyone here, I believe, remembers what those first days and weeks felt like. HELL on wheels with little sprinkles of joy on the side!

I agree with a lot that has been said thus far but am going to add a little from my experience. I am a Type A too! (Thanks Marje - I'm outta da closet too now! :lol: ) I researched, read, watched videos before even starting insulin - AND I STILL GOT STUFF WRONG! But I wouldn't have done it any differently. What I remember about my experience was that YES, there is a lot of information to read here, and YES a lot gets thrown at you all at once. I do think it's important for new members to, perhaps, spend a little more time in the Health Forum... at least until they are able to read all of the information, or at least a very good chunk of it. If this happens, the new member is much more likely to get some very much needed info at the beginning before they start posting their introductory post.

If there is one thing I notice looking at the Health board with new members, the same questions are asked ALL THE TIME! What I think would be very beneficial for both the new members and the advice givers is to have a questionnaire for the new member to fill out that would include a set of questions put together by the experts (like a top 10). What info does the expert need from the new member to provide initial advice?
Examples:
1. Your name, pet's name/age/sex
2. Are you feeding wet/dry - free fed/scheduled
3. Do you know the benefits of feeding wet vs dry food
4. What type of insulin has been prescribed for your pet
5. What is the dosage prescribed
6. Do you know the benefits of home testing and why it's important
7. Have you read the stickies and understand how posting on this board works

You get the idea, just include what questions are most commonly asked. This would give the expert and new member a baseline to start a dialog. This questionnaire could be included in their introductory post on the health board. The questionnaire should also have a place at the end for the new member to ask their questions. Or something like this... does anyone see what I'm getting at even if it doesn't have to be this way??? I just think that this is a great way to start off on the right foot with communication and that everyone is here to help.

I don't think a new member should be directed to the ISG boards until a firm grasp of how the board works is demonstrated. I know this would be hard since it seems like once people start shooting, it's ISG all the way. The only other suggestion is that if members see that a question has been answered on a board, this is when we should do our best to not "pile on" even though we don't mean to. We all are just trying to help but I really think this is when it can get a bit overwhelming.
Honestly though, I think everyone here does their best and helps out of the kindness of their hearts. Mego wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Everyday, I thank my lucky stars that I found everyone here. I'm all for making this a better place and if anything, Jill's dialog has just made me more aware of how I may respond in the future and that I will be more thoughtful, respectful, and as helpful as I can without trying to pile on too much.

Thank you again everyone for posting - this will only make FDMB a better place than it already is.
 
Here are a few thoughts based on a little bit of my own experience, too, although it is so hard to remember my early days anymore - and that's a good thing!

As everyone as mentioned, ECID and EMID. Another thing we have to keep in mind is not only that the new member has a newly ill kitty to deal with, but they may have a ton of crap going on in the background that they're not going to be comfortable sharing with a group of strangers. All they want is to make their sick cat better!

When Trix was diagnosed, Mario was diagnosed with HyperT and high BP on the same day, and I was juggling three other cats with IBD/food sensitivities as well. On top of that, I own a retail business in a struggling economy, and I just learned that I had not one, but two cats, with expensive, lifetime diseases. I was beyond stressed, but I didn't know anyone here, and wasn't comfortable blurting out all my daily stresses. There were times in those early days that I walked away from the board crying because I needed to fix Trix, couldn't eliminate dry from the house because of issues with my other cats, had too much going on, and I did feel very pressured that I was doing things "wrong". Initially, I did have to take breaks from the board for a few days...it was just too hard, and I felt like my head was going to explode, not so much from the info, but from the pressure I felt from all the things I was being told I had to do - and no one here knew all the other stuff I was dealing with that made doing those things very, very challenging.

One thing that is really hard is eliminating dry food. I know, I know...but especially with a newly diagnosed cat, trying to convince that cat to eat LC canned can be even more stressful than the diagnosis! I hate to say that, but it is true. So, when we talk about that aspect of it, I think we need to be as gingerly and careful as possible, while still encouraging the switch.

So I guess all I'm saying is that we need to let new folks know we understand that chances are they have way more going on that "just" a newly diagnosed cat (which, as we all know, is anything but trivial in and of itself), we know all of this is a difficult balancing act, and we're here to help make it easier.
 
It's good to get a reminder about what it was like to deal with a newly diagnosed cat. We've had the same issues with Zener, getting him to eat wet food and we never have convinced him to eat LC. :roll: There are a lot of good suggestions here and I hope that everyone intends to follow up their ideas with actually posting advice to new members. Otherwise, the *****-and-moan department is well populated.
Liz
 
An interesting conversation all the way around. I remember well being the new member over two years ago. I didn't know anyone on this board and everyone was telling me what I needed to do asap. At the same time, I was being told that my vet didn't know what they were doing and that I needed to ignore their advice and do what complete strangers were telling me to do. While I now know that that is all true, I cried many times because I was sure that I was killing Tarragon and I didn't know who to listen to, what to do, etc.

All of that is no fault of anyone on this board. You all know what you are talking about and have helping many many new members. However, for someone who is still going through the shock of the diagnosis, it is a scary scary time. I don't post to new members ever, unless it is just to give them a few encouraging words. It gets confusing for new members when they are inundated with so many questions and different things that they need to do from so many different people and, at times, receiving redundant or conflicting information.

This site has been a wonderful place for us and Tarragon would not be where he is now without it. I know that there are many many others who would agree. LL is our family. I like the questionnaire idea, but I thought we had one kind of like that at one time but I may be just thinking about the profile. If new members could fill that out in their opening post to LL, it would eliminate a lot of questions and confusion.
 
I just want to amend my post from this morning. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was complaining or pointing fingers or anything like that...couldn't be further from the truth. I cannot tell you how much I love and appreciate my LL family...you guys have save me and Trixie, and have gotten me through some rough patches with my civvies. I don't know where I'd be without you :YMHUG: !!

I think it's hard for those of us who are "old" to this stuff to remember what it is like to be new and so overwhelmed. I just wanted to share my early memories so we can all draw from them and use them to help the newest members as best we can.

I'm usually not comfortable with dosing advice unless the answer is really cut and dried, but I do try to visit new folks with a few words of support and encouragement when I can. I do think it goes a long way for these folks to know that we're all human and we've all been exactly where they are today.

I do wonder if even a questionaire may be too much to ask of a new person.Even though that info helps us help them, having a bunch of questions come all at once from a group of strangers might seem daunting (and maybe even creepy) to a new person. Maybe we need to break down how we ask for info - set priorities (ie, what is most important to encourage first - testing? shooting consistently? food changes?), and slowly tackle each topic, to sort of ease the new people into their new life.

Just a few more thoughts....
 
This might be TOO much for one person to take on, but what if there were a sort of "unofficial" welcome wagon (ie committee) that walked new members though the welcoming process. As in just a few members while the rest of us backed off with the advice and only offered words of encouragement.
 
I was under the impression we "kinda" have a unofficial welcome wagon...
and of course its volutary as no one is here that much of the time, except maybe me. :lol: :oops: ;-)

When I go to the main forum, I look for the new ones and see if I have anything to offer when I am able. But I find that most of the time,
there have been 2 or 3 there already so I will read and see if I have anything extra to contribute that is worthy or might help with whatever their
question is.

I do try to remember that too many cooks in the kitchen adage...

So that might be helpful is to see who has responded, and whether or not the question is addressed or not and even to offer to say, " I'm willing
to help any way I can, you can pm me if you want. ... feel free..."


My memories of being new here is :

1) be careful of the advise I give as my experience was limited, especially on dosing and other possible medical conditions that I might not recognize.
So be sure that what you are telling that person is true and correct information.
2) paying attention to their tone.... are they panicked, scared, wanting as much info as they can get...
trying to read between their lines as to what they want. Give them the help they want and they will continue asking.


I jumped in with both feet wanting to help when I got here and quickly started getting pm messages from lurkers who wanted my help but weren't
comfortable for various reasons.... mostly the tone, test more and the dry food issue and it would take me a while to help many of them feel comfortable or see the benefit of coming and posting so everyone could weigh in.
There truly are a lot ( a lot !) of lurkers out there who are afraid and stay in the shadows. ( :smile: )

And I would share some of it with Marje or Sienne and even tell them I had a new person coming who was very sensitive and needed a little extra
care not to be scared off. And they listened and some are still with us.
 
I jumped in with both feet wanting to help when I got here and quickly started getting pm messages from lurkers who wanted my help but weren't
comfortable for various reasons....
Click to expand...
And Marje and I offered Rhiannon some very strong words of caution about responding via PM. Many of you who send me PMs know that I won't give advice in a PM unless I copy it into an active condo. It is so dangerous to try to help, no matter how well intentioned, by PM, personal e-mail, by phone, etc. The value of a public forum such as this is that if you misspeak, there is someone who will catch your mistake. We all work as a team. You have no protection when you try to offer help privately. The absolute last thing any of us want is to offer a suggestion or not know to ask a particular question that ultimately results in causing harm to come to another person's cat.

There have been several occasions where someone is communicating with a new member by phone telling them that It's OK they can handle whatever is going on at home. And I've been screaming in the condo that the cat needs to go to the ER immediately. There are at least 2 instances that I can remember where in one case, the cat was in DKA and the other, the cat was so ill that a week later had to be euthanized. The off-board advising offered false reassurance that the person listened to. I personally never want to be in that position.

I know it wasn't Rhiannon's intent to suggest that it's OK to give advice via PM. However, I did want to insure that at least my position on this issue was clear and why.
 
Sienne is good to point that out. Beware of what advise you give if someone pm's you.
I never gave dosing advice to those asking for it or the really important stuff. I mostly would let those people vent.... about how hard it was, and their other difficulties in life like spouses.... sometimes they just wanted someone to listen to them and not tell them what to do.
I would often tell them to post and even give them the question to ask so they could have other eyes and opinions.
I would tell them if I thought they needed to get over their shyness sooner than later to get that important advice especially If I saw numbers that needed input and I would explain why they needed to get real help.
So the pm world was just being friendly and nudging them that everyone here wanted to help.

What I mean by saying you can pm me for help to all of you is IF you want help or if you need an ear... or someone to lean on to encourage you.
I did not mean to pm any of us for private advice on the real world of diabetes.
I do not recommend giving dosing advise at all ... leave that to our most experienced folks here.



good to get that clarified....
 
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