in Feline Health: potential hypo alert; over
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TheNewTeddy
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
We would appreciate any feedback more experienced Lantus users can provide? Note as well that Boo is a free fed cat, and he is also very very fat (though if you pick him up you see it's actually a lot of muscle!)
We would appreciate any feedback more experienced Lantus users can provide? Note as well that Boo is a free fed cat, and he is also very very fat (though if you pick him up you see it's actually a lot of muscle!)
TheNewTeddy
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
3 hours ago was the shot, and we've not tested again at this point.
3 hours ago was the shot, and we've not tested again at this point.
TheNewTeddy
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
We tested at the urgings of forum members and got 86 on the US scale. This matches his readings from the AM, and, he generally eats more at night. (He's eating right now) so thanks for the concern. We are confidant enough in his stability that we'll re-test in the morning.
We tested at the urgings of forum members and got 86 on the US scale. This matches his readings from the AM, and, he generally eats more at night. (He's eating right now) so thanks for the concern. We are confidant enough in his stability that we'll re-test in the morning.
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
ALI left a couple posts in different threads. Please test now as lantus typically onsets +2 or +3 depending on the cat. Please post the number. Thanks.
ALI left a couple posts in different threads. Please test now as lantus typically onsets +2 or +3 depending on the cat. Please post the number. Thanks.
TheNewTeddy
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
This post was at the same time as yours so not sure if you've seen it. His numbers are fairly stable/flat.TheNewTeddy said:
BJM
Member Since 2010
You have exactly 12 hours of data with him staying in the 80s on this dose. You can't be sure that will happen again. As Seinne noted on your daily condo, many cats go lower at night. And he started lower this cycle too.
Please don't go to bed until you're sure he's safely past his probable nadir (around +8).
Please don't go to bed until you're sure he's safely past his probable nadir (around +8).
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Quite frankly, I've been at this 18 months and know my kitty pretty well, have a ton of data on her on lantus and levemir,and I would not assume that what she did during one cycle, she would also do the next.
What you are missing is the fact that lantus has a cumulative nature so one cycle builds on another. As the shed gets larger, there is the potential for numbers to come down quickly.
You can see the evidence of this on my Gracie's SS on 4/2. It's not lantus but it's levemir which is also a long acting insulin ( supposedly more gentle than lantus) with a depot action.
Please test Boo no later than +5..... He is already lower than he was this morning at the same time.
Quite frankly, I've been at this 18 months and know my kitty pretty well, have a ton of data on her on lantus and levemir,and I would not assume that what she did during one cycle, she would also do the next.
What you are missing is the fact that lantus has a cumulative nature so one cycle builds on another. As the shed gets larger, there is the potential for numbers to come down quickly.
You can see the evidence of this on my Gracie's SS on 4/2. It's not lantus but it's levemir which is also a long acting insulin ( supposedly more gentle than lantus) with a depot action.
Please test Boo no later than +5..... He is already lower than he was this morning at the same time.
Vidya & Boo
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
The system is not allowing me to send PMs for some reason, so I would like to request that other members please stop posting multiple '911s' and 'alerts' about our cat -- who is being treated according to our veterinarian's protocol, always has ample food available, and is watched by us pretty much 24/7 anyway because of our differing wake/sleep schedules. We did not request that any other FDMB member post such messages on our behalf, and would greatly appreciate it if it would stop. Thank you.
The system is not allowing me to send PMs for some reason, so I would like to request that other members please stop posting multiple '911s' and 'alerts' about our cat -- who is being treated according to our veterinarian's protocol, always has ample food available, and is watched by us pretty much 24/7 anyway because of our differing wake/sleep schedules. We did not request that any other FDMB member post such messages on our behalf, and would greatly appreciate it if it would stop. Thank you.
Melanie and Smokey
Member Since 2010
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
They are all just worried about you. Making sure someone is available on the boards if a cat is showing signs that they might go too low is standard protocol around here. Its just to ensure someone is around should you NEED help. Vet's protocol has put more than one cat in a hospital or worse so experienced eyes on the situation can't hurt.
I do tend to agree with the cat's caretakers. I do not see a 911 situation here at this point. He appears to be a fairly flat cat, coming down nicely with some flat cycles.
They are all just worried about you. Making sure someone is available on the boards if a cat is showing signs that they might go too low is standard protocol around here. Its just to ensure someone is around should you NEED help. Vet's protocol has put more than one cat in a hospital or worse so experienced eyes on the situation can't hurt.
I do tend to agree with the cat's caretakers. I do not see a 911 situation here at this point. He appears to be a fairly flat cat, coming down nicely with some flat cycles.
TheNewTeddy
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
I'll be up all night (its 1:30am here incase anyone is wondering) because I want to try to get to wal-mart at 7am (before the rush in the store and on the bus) We are giving him many things (chromium for example) and still have a lot of dry foods available that are high-carb. We don't want to sound like we are refusing to listen, but we are aware of the risks, and know our cats very well Boo is often at his most active of the day at 6am (and he eats much more in the 8 hours that we normally sleep than in the 16 we are awake). I will play with him at 6am and if I see any sign at all that he is not 110% I will test for sure. I have some experience working with systems where you have this sort of delayed feedback (I often compare it to driving a large boat) and we will reduce his dose in the AM unless his numbers spike upwards. One of the reason we are raising an eyebrow is that we posted all this data in another thread and no concerns were raised, as well, all our numbers remain in the ranges that our vet told us were good, and so by the vet's protocol, we gave the proper dosage. We will watch him for sure, and I want to thank everyone for their concerns, however we do know the risks and at some point we need to treat him as we feel best.
Edit - I'll be online all night and my MSN messenger will tell me anytime someone sends me a PM, so I'm available for contact if needed.
I'll be up all night (its 1:30am here incase anyone is wondering) because I want to try to get to wal-mart at 7am (before the rush in the store and on the bus) We are giving him many things (chromium for example) and still have a lot of dry foods available that are high-carb. We don't want to sound like we are refusing to listen, but we are aware of the risks, and know our cats very well Boo is often at his most active of the day at 6am (and he eats much more in the 8 hours that we normally sleep than in the 16 we are awake). I will play with him at 6am and if I see any sign at all that he is not 110% I will test for sure. I have some experience working with systems where you have this sort of delayed feedback (I often compare it to driving a large boat) and we will reduce his dose in the AM unless his numbers spike upwards. One of the reason we are raising an eyebrow is that we posted all this data in another thread and no concerns were raised, as well, all our numbers remain in the ranges that our vet told us were good, and so by the vet's protocol, we gave the proper dosage. We will watch him for sure, and I want to thank everyone for their concerns, however we do know the risks and at some point we need to treat him as we feel best.
Edit - I'll be online all night and my MSN messenger will tell me anytime someone sends me a PM, so I'm available for contact if needed.
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
I'm not saying the dose is wrong or there is any problem with an 86. I think it's all just fine.....for now. But we are numbers driven here and things can change quickly. My kitty has been at 20 with not one single sign of a hypo so I just encourage you to not think you can necessarily tell if he is low by his behavior.
Safety is first here and we keep kitties safe by testing when they are low.
I'm not saying the dose is wrong or there is any problem with an 86. I think it's all just fine.....for now. But we are numbers driven here and things can change quickly. My kitty has been at 20 with not one single sign of a hypo so I just encourage you to not think you can necessarily tell if he is low by his behavior.
Safety is first here and we keep kitties safe by testing when they are low.
TheNewTeddy
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Aye. I noticed that too (when reading the stickied threads) and it's what has me a bit concerned.
Aye. I noticed that too (when reading the stickied threads) and it's what has me a bit concerned.
TheNewTeddy
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Vidya had the idea to test him again right now. We are at +5. His reading was 5.0 which is higher than the prior reading which makes me feel good. This is a 90 US reading, so things are looking good
Vidya had the idea to test him again right now. We are at +5. His reading was 5.0 which is higher than the prior reading which makes me feel good. This is a 90 US reading, so things are looking good
Melissa and Bailey
Member Since 2011
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Very nice numbers
We are all about the testing here as you have probably deduced. :lol: Tight regulation is a great way to get kitty regulated and potentially achieve remission, but it is important to keep an eye on the numbers (especially in the beginning) in addition to Boo's behavior. And yes, we like to keep a close eye on new folks! No offense was intended, you guys obviously care about your kitty or you wouldn't be here.
Very nice numbers
We are all about the testing here as you have probably deduced. :lol: Tight regulation is a great way to get kitty regulated and potentially achieve remission, but it is important to keep an eye on the numbers (especially in the beginning) in addition to Boo's behavior. And yes, we like to keep a close eye on new folks! No offense was intended, you guys obviously care about your kitty or you wouldn't be here.
Vidya & Boo
Member Since 2012
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Part of the problem with posting a spreadsheet -- something we had resisted doing for several days -- is that it makes it appear as if Boo has had a sudden jump this past day in his reaction to a consistent dose of insulin, and this is taken by some folks as an indication that the insulin shed is primarily responsible. Whereas, in fact, Boo's numbers had held pretty steady for a couple of days and his newly increased response has only developed with our introduction of small doses of a herbal remedy for feline diabetes (Mellit) to the array of treatment modalities we are using. Unlike the dramatic drops produced by even small increases in circulating insulin, naturopathic medicines work by helping the body better regulate its response and maintain good homoeostasis even with some fluctuations in the actual amounts of available insulin. This accounts, I believe, for Boo's increasingly flat curve, relative lack of high/low 'spikes' in the readings, and gentle drop in BG readings without any clinical signs of hypoglycaemia. (Of course, we're watching him closely and may well decrease the insulin dose soon -- but decades of experience with natural healing have also taught me to place great trust in the body's ability to increasingly self-regulate when properly supported by botanical, homeopathic, or orthomolecular medicines.)
And, certainly, I have no problem with someone raising a question about our choices re: injecting in the face of a given set of BG values -- I welcome these sorts of productive discussions with other FDMB users. But doing this is quite different from another user posting multiple panicky threads about our cat, appended with one of our user-names, begging others' help for us, when we expressed no such request or any grounds for concern whatsoever. This little furry guy is my precious child, and all can rest assured that I would never do anything if I had even a suspicion that it would endanger his safety.
Part of the problem with posting a spreadsheet -- something we had resisted doing for several days -- is that it makes it appear as if Boo has had a sudden jump this past day in his reaction to a consistent dose of insulin, and this is taken by some folks as an indication that the insulin shed is primarily responsible. Whereas, in fact, Boo's numbers had held pretty steady for a couple of days and his newly increased response has only developed with our introduction of small doses of a herbal remedy for feline diabetes (Mellit) to the array of treatment modalities we are using. Unlike the dramatic drops produced by even small increases in circulating insulin, naturopathic medicines work by helping the body better regulate its response and maintain good homoeostasis even with some fluctuations in the actual amounts of available insulin. This accounts, I believe, for Boo's increasingly flat curve, relative lack of high/low 'spikes' in the readings, and gentle drop in BG readings without any clinical signs of hypoglycaemia. (Of course, we're watching him closely and may well decrease the insulin dose soon -- but decades of experience with natural healing have also taught me to place great trust in the body's ability to increasingly self-regulate when properly supported by botanical, homeopathic, or orthomolecular medicines.)
And, certainly, I have no problem with someone raising a question about our choices re: injecting in the face of a given set of BG values -- I welcome these sorts of productive discussions with other FDMB users. But doing this is quite different from another user posting multiple panicky threads about our cat, appended with one of our user-names, begging others' help for us, when we expressed no such request or any grounds for concern whatsoever. This little furry guy is my precious child, and all can rest assured that I would never do anything if I had even a suspicion that it would endanger his safety.
BJM
Member Since 2010
As the one who posted the "panicky thread', I can tell you that
1) each cat is different
2) things change - no cat is going to be 100% consistent
All it takes is one hairball, or something different in the food (manufacturers can make changes without changing the labeling for 6 months), or catching a kitty cold, or developing pancreatitis/IBD/something else, and what is safe one cycle is not safe the next. With only 5 days of data, with progressively lower starting numbers, I didn't want you waking up to a dead cat. And we have had folks with cats that hypo'd and passed away. Better I should put out a call for eyes, than risk you having that nightmare. Be upset with me if you want; I'm just glad your cat is doing OK.
1) each cat is different
2) things change - no cat is going to be 100% consistent
All it takes is one hairball, or something different in the food (manufacturers can make changes without changing the labeling for 6 months), or catching a kitty cold, or developing pancreatitis/IBD/something else, and what is safe one cycle is not safe the next. With only 5 days of data, with progressively lower starting numbers, I didn't want you waking up to a dead cat. And we have had folks with cats that hypo'd and passed away. Better I should put out a call for eyes, than risk you having that nightmare. Be upset with me if you want; I'm just glad your cat is doing OK.
Cini Mini's Mom
Member Since 2011
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
BJM
Can you at least change the subject line of this original to something other than what it is now? Even without the "911" icon it catches the eye and makes us unnecessarily open the post thinking someone needs help.
Maybe something like "All Better Now"?
Posting the words "Hypo Alert" is like yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater, it send us all running, in this case, to the fire.
BJM
Can you at least change the subject line of this original to something other than what it is now? Even without the "911" icon it catches the eye and makes us unnecessarily open the post thinking someone needs help.
Maybe something like "All Better Now"?
Posting the words "Hypo Alert" is like yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater, it send us all running, in this case, to the fire.
Squeaky and KT (GA)
Member Since 2011
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Vidya/NewTeddy - I agree with BJ wholeheartedly - this is about the KITTIES, it's not about egos.....I'd rather have 20 HELP messages posted than just ONE ignored.
BIG HUG!
BJM said:
Vidya/NewTeddy - I agree with BJ wholeheartedly - this is about the KITTIES, it's not about egos.....I'd rather have 20 HELP messages posted than just ONE ignored.
BIG HUG!
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
I also think we need to be sensitive to a caregiver's request especially when it comes to posting on their behalf with their name(s) in a subject line. While help is unquestionably well intentioned, based on Vidya and New Teddy's request, the subject line should have been changed. Not everyone is comfortable with having this sort of attention drawn to them, their condo, or their cat.
Boo's beans were very attentive to getting tests last night and did respond pro-actively when it was suggested that they get some PM cycle tests. I sincerely hope Vidya and New Teddy continue to post despite their request being overlooked.
I also think we need to be sensitive to a caregiver's request especially when it comes to posting on their behalf with their name(s) in a subject line. While help is unquestionably well intentioned, based on Vidya and New Teddy's request, the subject line should have been changed. Not everyone is comfortable with having this sort of attention drawn to them, their condo, or their cat.
Boo's beans were very attentive to getting tests last night and did respond pro-actively when it was suggested that they get some PM cycle tests. I sincerely hope Vidya and New Teddy continue to post despite their request being overlooked.
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Vidya
I have been a proponent of holistic and homeopathic treatments for my cats for years and years. I am happy that you have a vet that can help you do this and I'm for any treatment that helps a FD cat. I also use alternative treatment modalities with Gracie including chromium and vanadium. You've definitely peaked my interest with the Mellit and I will look into it.
I'm not actually jumping to any conclusion about why his BG levels changed or flattened. They have, it's great. I love to see flat. But please do not discount the shed action of lantus....that's all I'm asking you. You are trying something different and I support that but just because you are does not mean that you will offset the shed. And my comments about the shed last night had nothing to do with how his numbers had changed and everything to do with the reality of the shed....I have no idea what was responsible for his change in numbers....and maybe he will be one of those cats that will earn reductions by staying at healthy numbers for a week. I hope so
The problem with you not posting a spreadsheet is that if you DO get into any issue....especially in the middle of the night when your vet is not available, it makes it very difficult for us to help. Most of us who give dosing suggestions, etc., hesitate to do so without being able to see the SS. We aren't just looking at one cycle....we are looking at trends and waves. Without that, we would be putting your kitty at risk with any kind of advice. If you feel that you won't ever need the help.....then please let us know in what capacity we can best assist you all and Boo....support? We are a support group and we can cheer you on but we also follow TR protocol here....with some doing the Start Low Go Slow protocol. And for that, we need a SS. We have many, many experienced members and we have found that very few vets truly grasp the intricacies of treating FD. We live and breathe it 24/7.
As for last night....I did not feel his numbers were ever unsafe nor do I think a "hypo alert" was warranted with a 911. But I am glad that you got another test in....that was the wise thing to do.
Vidya
I have been a proponent of holistic and homeopathic treatments for my cats for years and years. I am happy that you have a vet that can help you do this and I'm for any treatment that helps a FD cat. I also use alternative treatment modalities with Gracie including chromium and vanadium. You've definitely peaked my interest with the Mellit and I will look into it.
I'm not actually jumping to any conclusion about why his BG levels changed or flattened. They have, it's great. I love to see flat. But please do not discount the shed action of lantus....that's all I'm asking you. You are trying something different and I support that but just because you are does not mean that you will offset the shed. And my comments about the shed last night had nothing to do with how his numbers had changed and everything to do with the reality of the shed....I have no idea what was responsible for his change in numbers....and maybe he will be one of those cats that will earn reductions by staying at healthy numbers for a week. I hope so
The problem with you not posting a spreadsheet is that if you DO get into any issue....especially in the middle of the night when your vet is not available, it makes it very difficult for us to help. Most of us who give dosing suggestions, etc., hesitate to do so without being able to see the SS. We aren't just looking at one cycle....we are looking at trends and waves. Without that, we would be putting your kitty at risk with any kind of advice. If you feel that you won't ever need the help.....then please let us know in what capacity we can best assist you all and Boo....support? We are a support group and we can cheer you on but we also follow TR protocol here....with some doing the Start Low Go Slow protocol. And for that, we need a SS. We have many, many experienced members and we have found that very few vets truly grasp the intricacies of treating FD. We live and breathe it 24/7.
As for last night....I did not feel his numbers were ever unsafe nor do I think a "hypo alert" was warranted with a 911. But I am glad that you got another test in....that was the wise thing to do.
Squeaky and KT (GA)
Member Since 2011
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Maybe I should have left this above out this morning but, to me, when help is needed and there doesn't seem to be someone that feels comfortable answering a question here, asking in other forums for help doesn't seem wrong. I know there are some people that only stay on a specific subforum so don't see things posted in other places. I agree the 911 wasn't necessary and I understand not posting names. I really wasn't trying to be rude in my post above so please forgive me, rereading it, it sort of come across that way. I apologize....
Hug,
Squeaky and KT said:
Maybe I should have left this above out this morning but, to me, when help is needed and there doesn't seem to be someone that feels comfortable answering a question here, asking in other forums for help doesn't seem wrong. I know there are some people that only stay on a specific subforum so don't see things posted in other places. I agree the 911 wasn't necessary and I understand not posting names. I really wasn't trying to be rude in my post above so please forgive me, rereading it, it sort of come across that way. I apologize....
Hug,
Robert and Echo
Member Since 2008
Re: in Feline Health: POTENTIAL HYPO ALERT - THE NEW TEDDY
Thank you, everyone, for working this out.
Please remember to remain calm.
Thanks, Rebecca
Thank you, everyone, for working this out.
Please remember to remain calm.
Thanks, Rebecca
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