Immediate insulin and food plans?

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SpringHalo

SpringHalo

Member Since 2014
My cat was diagnosed with diabetes about a week ago, and just today I started researching treatment options and the like, and after coming across catinfo.org, I feel like I've learned a ton, but I still have a few questions:
My cat has been on dry food for the past 10 years of her life, but the things I'm reading pretty much say to stay completely away from dry food altogether.
My big question is whether there's a big price difference between making your own food, as outlined on catinfo, versus buying canned food. I won't be able to get liver, and it might be a while before I get a bone grinder, but I already got 3 lbs of chicken thighs (boneless) and will be getting the rest of the ingredients soon. It seems like a good idea, but I'm a little skeptical about something I just randomly found on the internet, and even if it is an MD, I haven't heard any external feedback on the legitimacy of that recipe.

Also my vet prescribed Lantus in 2 unit dosages, but the vial is $200 at pretty much every pharmacy around me. I read that lantus could actually be able to "cure" the low insulin problem, but I still hate to spend $200 for something that might only last a few months. Are there other places to get it that are fast and reliable?

Thanks
 
Welcome to you and your extra sweet kitty! Can we get your names?

Lantus can last up to 6 months, if stored properly. Also, if you're on a low dose of Lantus, the Solostar pens may be you're best option. You don't have to refrigerate them and they can last much longer. You don't get the pen needles. Just draw it with a regular syringe.

Most cats here start on 1 unit of insulin, maybe less. I'll let some others weigh in on that. Starting too high could mean you miss the optimal dose.

You also don't want to start insulin and change to wet food at the same time. Just changing to a low carb wet food can bring a cat's blood glucose down by 100 points or so. The transition can be difficult, but it can be done!

Ask lots of questions! The folks here have a huge wealth of knowledge to share!

~Suzanne
 
My cat's name is Sheevee. The vet prescribed 2 units to start. Also, the lab glucose measurement was 349mg/dL whereas the optimal range is apparenly 72-175 (as noted on the sheet). I'll mention the lower dosage to my vet when he calls tomorrow.

Thanks!
Sam
 
Hi Sam and Sheevee!

Just ask him how he calculated the starting dose. I think it may be calculated by the cat's weight. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can answer that.

The optimal range is much lower than the 349. You may see a huge drop when you switch him to wet food.

You can test Sheevee's BG at home with a regular human glucometer. A lot of us use the ReliOn meter from Walmart. It is inexpensive and the strips are too. Did your vet mention home testing?
 
I'll ask him about the dosage. She's 9.2lbs now, but she was around 10-11 a few years back; we hadn't really weighed her since the last checkup. The only reason we took her to the vet was because of increased urination.

I plan to go out and buy the ReliOn tonight or tomorrow, and test her to see if part of that spike was just from the stress of going to the vet.

Attached is the initial blood and urine test results if anyone's interested.
 

Attachments

The formula for calculating a starting Lantus dose is
9.2 lbs (take the lower of ideal or current weight)
converted into Kg (divide by 2.2)
multiply by 0.25
round down to nearest quarter unit
results in: 1 unit
 
The initial start-up cost for making the raw recipe is great but after that, it is less costly.

The grinder is expensive but worth it to have a good one. I have the Tasin. Then I spent about $75 for the initial supply of supplements. After that I spent about $40-$50 to re-supply the supplements after a year.

If you are not grinding the bone, it is very important that you get the bone meal. Dr. Pierson stresses the importance of that meat to bone ratio and so do her sources. Dr. Pierson's recipe is very well known and there is a great book that backs up her advice called, "Raising Cats Naturally" by Michelle Bernard who cites the study. I was leery at first about a recipe off the internet until I read this book.

After start up costs, it is fairly inexpensive. I make a two-week batch for five cats by buying 10 lbs of thigh meat with bone and skin at Whole Foods for about $40 and then the $3 tub of livers. So that is two feedings a day for $2.86.

I do however supplement their raw food with some canned foods such as Tiki or Wellness Core. If I had just one or two young cats, I would feed them raw food exclusively. My cats will only eat poultry but I have ordered ground rabbit, duck, hen and others from Hare Today and then just added the supplements.

The immediate change in health is so noticeable - such as softer fur, smaller poops, more active behavior, less regurgitation. To me, the time is a pain with set-up, processing and clean up but it is well worth it.

Let me know if you have any questions about the raw recipe. I totally support anybody willing to try it although it may be difficult to transition a dry food eater. I had to use tricks such as Fortiflora and parmesan.
 
Here are some testing tips :https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub and a shopping list in case you haven't picked up your kit yet:

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
 
Thank you so much for the informative replies!

BJM, I called my vet and he suggested that for blood-glucose levels higher than 360mg/dL they do .5 units per kilogram, but he also noted that we might be able to reduce the dosage depending on how she reacts to that and the food change; the biggest thing to have is consistency.

Robin, thanks for the suggestion about the meat-to-bone ratio; I wasn't sure if I should try bone meal to start, but I think that'll stave us off long enough to see if this diet will work well, then we can get a grinder later if need-be.

Wendy, thank you for the list! I'm going out to buy most of that stuff right now, and there are a few things in there that I didn't even think of that should help quite a bit in the long run. I'll read through the testing tips article soon too.

Sam
 
Absolutely blood glucose test if you start with that higher dose. We have had cats here hypo on a vet's starting dose because the vet fails to understand the cummulative effect of Lantus. It may be an OK dose 9 times and by dose 10, send the cat too low. Or it may take the cat too low on the very firat dose.

The nadir, or lowest glucose for Lantus is generally between +5 to +7 hours after the shot. You want that to stay above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer, 80 mg/dL on a pet meter.
 
Re raw: I'm considering moving to a partially raw diet, and I've started by buying/ getting samples of a few brands of freeze-dried, and a few flavors of frozen raw. That way, I'll slowly see if they like it and tolerate it digestively, before attempting to make it at home. My Fiona will pimp-slap me to get a piece of browned ground beef from my plate, but looks at the raw stuff like it's poisoned.

I also second what the others said about taking it slow and introducing one variable at a time.

Good luck!
Tracie
Fester Fatty Cat
 
Okay, so I threw together a batch of the home-made stuff as per the recipe on catinfo, and she seems to be enjoying it, but since they've been on always-available dry food for their entire lives, I think her and her sister have an "eat a little bit every once in a while" feeding schedule, so even if I give her food twice a day, she doesn't eat it all at once, usually leaving quite a bit and coming back for it later.

How long will this partially raw stuff last out of the fridge? The single batch should last a week or two, so I'm not terribly worried about it spoiling in the fridge, but leaving it out at room temp for 6-10 hours seems dangerous.

Also, how much should she be eating? The tupperware cups I put the food in have about 4 oz of food in them, but it seems like a pretty hefty portion, and there's usually quite a bit left by midday.

I managed to take the first measurement today, and the meter said 327mg/dL, which is a little better than what the vet reported, but the error margins on these aren't the greatest.

My vet also called and discussed lantus alternatives, but it seems most insulin has risen in price recently, and I can't find 10mL vials anywhere for less than $190. Are there certain places that people get them or should I just accept the cost to get her on insulin ASAP?

Thanks
 
I think Cat info should have the calorie count for the recipe. I know there is info on how much to feed.

You can freeze a couple ounces and put those out to be nibbled as they thaw. And/or use a refrigerated/frozen plate for serving to keep it cool longer.
 
DCIN (Diabetic Cats in Need) put together this handy writeupon getting Lantus at a lower cost. First off, if you can get the pen, a mini 3mL vial instead of the 10 mL vial, it works just as well but can be used to the last drop before the effectiveness of the pen wanes.
 
I leave my raw out until it has been consumed - sometimes on a cold plate. They usually come back and eat it within the hour. They won't eat it if it is bad or gets hard. I also freeze most of mine and remove a jar to the fridge (Ball jars are really great) no more than 24 hours prior to use. The half pint jars are ideal for one feeding of all five of my cats.

My cats were also dry grazers until I removed it from my house five minutes after I read catinfo.org. To compensate, I feed three meals a day and I leave out some Wellness Core canned food in between which they pretend not to love so it makes it perfect for grazing - the dish is always licked clean by the time I get home.
 
Good job on the testing!!

I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day once she starts insulin.

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low the cat’s blood sugar is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want the cat dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what the cat's overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Note also the lantus should keep up to six months if you keep it In the fridge. I would get her started ASAP, that blood is too high. Normal cats are 50-130.

Wendy
 
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