I’m new

Jake is 18 diagnosed about a month ago. He’s on 2 units ProZinc. I’m using a relion meter now. Yesterday I did a curve with the alpha l trak and it wasn’t bad but today on the relion and the PMPS just said HI. His SS is here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S15-dJ5nHpXmzr2qcIBX2yg6u3q6q79_l3qQ8A0dQdI/edit

Any help would be appreciated

 

Glad to see you over here from the FB group Sharon! And Jake is one handsome fellow!!

@FrostD is one of the members who really knows ProZinc so I really hope she see's the tag.

While you're waiting, could you do a little bit of housekeeping? If you look under my comment, you'll see some basic information about my sugarcat China. By filling out your "Signature", people won't have to keep asking you the same questions over and over again.

Just click on your Sign on name at the top right and there's a drop down menu. Choose "Signature" and a new box will pop up. Usual information we like to see is:

Your name/Cat's name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems or meds? and then at the end, put the link to your spreadsheet. Then just hit "Save"! That way every time you post, your information is there and your link is already posted for people to see.

You're limited on how many characters you can use so just keep it as simple and short as you can.

 

Welcome Sharon and Jake ,you couldn't have found a better forum to join
I'm sure Melissa @FrostD will get back to you tomorrow
Jake is one handsome boy, he's beautiful
I used to have a kitty named Jake

 

Thanks. Jake and his late buddy. We had to put Simon down in February after 20 years. I miss him so and I think Jake does too. They would groom each other.

 

Hi and welcome to you and Jake…what a lovely boy.
Ask lots of questions, we are always happy to help.

 

Hi there - only have a few mins - dose looks good for now. You want nadir (the lowest BG) to be about 90-120 on ProZinc when feeding dry food (even if it's low carb food). Our dosing methods say hold the dose if under 150. Since you got the 129 yesterday I would hold.

Right now he is bouncing, normal for a newly diagnosed cat. I can explain that later when I have a little more time.

Welcome!

 

Thanks. Yesterday’s numbers were a bit concerning and todays. Trying to decide to stay or increase .25. Hrs acting a bit better. Begging for our food again and climbing on the coach again. Talks a lot. Yells at me when he’s hungry standing by his dish.

 

Since @FrostD suggested holding the dose, I'd stick with the 2U for now. We just want to make sure if his highs now are due to a bounce, that the bounce is over before deciding whether to increase or not.

Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too fast, 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3). The liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring them back up so all you can really do is wait for those sugars and hormones to work their way out of his body and that can take up to 3 days (6 cycles).

How often are you feeding?

It's also possible that the Young Again is keeping him high. Even though it's advertised as low carb, some cats react to it just like if it was any other high carb kibble. Is there any chance that when he dropped into the 100's he didn't eat any that cycle?

 

Ok back now - thanks Chris for explaining the bounce!

(I have 2 kids under 2, soon to be 3 under 3, so I'm usually only on for a little bit in the morning, then again after they go to bed)

Like Chris said, we just want to see where he ends up after a bounce clears. The 129 on an AlphaTrak is pretty much right where you want him for now. FD is unfortunately a giant game of patience.

His numbers are unusually high. I typically only see them that high when there's higher carb food involved, and/or some other health issue at play. But sometimes that's just how it is. No chance he's getting into high carb food? I've not seen what Chris mentioned with the Young again, but she's been around the block so I believe it. When were his last labs?

 

Labs were when he was diagnosed followed two weeks later with a curve at the vet. I’ll keep the young again from him for a day or two and see what happens. I understand the kid thing. My daughter has 2.5 year old twins and a baby due end of August. I really appreciate your help. I’m a breast cancer patient trying to stay no evidence of disease and at the doctors office 3 days a week for iv’s and treatments. I’ll test his sugar before I go to bed. He seems disoriented some. Forgets to turn around in the litter box and sometimes gets it outside the box or completely outside the box. He seems to forget to eat. If o keep putting him back by his dish he eats more. But he has perked up. He is 18.
thanks for your help!

 

Oof she has her hands full for sure. As for you! Good luck with the treatments, I know that all takes a toll.

When you get a chance, please post labs so we can take a look. I just want to make sure nothing underlying was missed or possibly contributing to his numbers. We're not experts at labs, but we catch quite a bit of stuff.

 

Yeah with the Facebook group, we see it occasionally with the YAZ and the Dr. Elsey's too. Makes no sense since they're both low carb, but considering it's cats we're dealing with here, it doesn't always have to make sense! I suppose it could be that a particular cat doesn't handle the protein source or some other ingredient.

 

I don’t have a copy of the labs. Vet didn’t give the. To me. They just said everything was great. He was just diabetic. Should I ask the vet for a copy?

 

It's always a good idea to ask for a copy of any labs or test results. If for no other reason, just in case something happens and you have to go to a new vet (or ER) and having historical data can help rule things in or out.

They should be able to email them to you but if not, they can always send them snail mail or you can pick them up. From now on if you go in and they do tests remember to ask for them before you leave

 

they did them on a Saturday and called me with the results on tuesday

 

I got the labs and posted them in his SS

 

Great thanks!

Everything looks pretty good. Do you know if he has had his thyroid checked recently? Or a GI panel?

 

@FrostD

 

Did the vet say anything about the low T3? The other thyroid values are ok, and usually a combination of them would indicate a thyroid issue. Just the T3 alone isn't much as far as I know, just curious.

 

No he didn’t. I know I have to take NPthyroid because regular thyroid medication doesn’t have T3. There may not be a medication that has T3 for animals. On the advice of the Nicole Cook I only have him 1 unit this morning to see if the hi’s are a reaction to the insulin. We’ll see how he does today. He was hungry this morning. Ate a little over a half can of tiny tiger. Last night I gave him two cans cause I know he nibbles over night. It was all gone this morning. It was at least 2 hours after food when I tested him.

 

Hi Sharon! I see you are in Feline Diabetes AND Feline Diabetes Support Group on Facebook. I would strongly recommend you pick only one group to follow advice from. Feline Diabetes (NOT FDSG) is the group affiliated with this message board.

We all do dosing a little differently; and if you're getting dosing advice from multiple sources, it makes it harder for people to help you.

 

Thanks I totally agree. I’m going to go to 2.25 tonight and back out of the other group. Chris already clued me in. I’m pretty sure my vet would tell me to up to 2.25 or 2.5.

 

If it helps ease your mind - you are testing enough that you would be catching any lows. Or I'd be able to tell from looking at your spreadsheet, I can't even begin to tell you how many spreadsheets I've read lol

Any idea what might have happened on the 13th when you got that 129? Did he by chance throw up, or eat less that day?

Since he's getting the dry food, we do say hold the dose for a week. The 129 gives me a little pause, but if you'd like to go up to 2.25U that should be safe as well.

 

Hi and welcome from Los Angeles. Those labs look really good and especially for an 18 year old. No reason to ever do another curve at the vet. Did you do the curve with the AT because of your vet? Otherwise just stick with the Relion as strips are so much cheaper and our methods were based using a human meter.

 

I can’t think of anything. He’s never thrown up. Yesterday I held the dry food and it didn’t make a difference. I’ll do 2 units today and in the morning and see what the vet says. I’m doing more testing to see what’s happening. Baffles me what happened on the 13. I thought we were getting somewhere. He’s acting better. Jumped out of the litterbox today and is spending more time on the coach. When Jim sits on the coach he has to jump up and sit next to him. I’ve been giving him a few prices of Benito flakes today and he loves it.

 

If it is the dry food causing wonky numbers, sometimes it can take up to a week or so to see the effects. Combined with the lower dose this morning, high numbers.

He looks so good for 18!

 

Gave him 2 units tonight

 

Went to 2.25 this morning but wondering if I should have gone to 2.5?

 

no...he dropped into the 200's today and then bounced. You hold the dose for at least 3 days (and usually more like 7 days) unless he drops too low. The increases are based on how low the dose is taking him. The only time we recommend going up by .5 is if the nadirs have all been over 300.

The nadir is the lowest point in the cycle, no matter when it comes (most are around +5 to +7 but ECID "Every Cat Is Different")

Might want to read some of the Sticky's in the ProZinc forum, especially the one on Dosing Methods

Don't know how late @FrostD is up but hopefully she'll stop by and give you her advice too. Since I used Lantus with my China, I don't have as much experience with it as she does.

 

Like Chris said, you want to hold the dose for at least a few days to give him time to adjust to it. If he's still getting the dry, then need to hold for a week. If the dry is out of the picture, it can be more like every 4-5 days. They don't always respond to an increase in the first cycle, so it's always good to give it a few days to make sure you know how low a dose is truly taking him.

 

No dry food at the moment. Just tiny tiger wet. Some bonito flakes.

 

Should I raise his dose to 2.5?

 

It depends -

I would have gotten one more test in last night, the 591 to 378 by +2 was a very large drop. There's no telling where he might have been at +4 or +6. Based on my experience my guess is low yellow/high blue. BUT we just don't know, it could have been lower.

When I see a potential flag, these are the cases where I leave it up to the caregiver. Overall I think it is safe to increase to 2.5U, but what I mentioned above gives me pause. It is up to you, your goals for him, and what risks you're willing to take. Your other option is to hold the dose, and next time you see a drop like that get a later test to confirm how low he's going.

 

Unfortunately yesterday was my daughters baby shower and we were gone most of the day so he got his pm dose at 8 and the +2 was 10 and I went to bed. Today I can do +2 all day and see what he does. It’s a bit frustrating because I have to keep an eye on him all day as he’s peeing outside the litter boxes. Right next to them or in front of it. He sometimes goes in but doesn’t turn around and half in and half out or on the shelf next to the box. At least he keeps it in the laundry room. We’re using puppy pads all over the laundry room. But I don’t think it’s time to let him go. He’s seems happy. Let’s me know when he’s hungry and for some reason let’s me know when he’s headed for the litter box most of the time.

 

Does he have any neuropathy or arthritis? Sometimes lower-sided boxes help, or a little less litter. And treating any neuropathy or arthritis.

Congrats on the coming grandbaby!

 

Does t have any signs of neuropathy. I’m the one with neuropathy . Did I put him in the box and don’t let him out he’ll jump over the side. He jumps on furniture when he wants.

 

I have him on 2.5 units now and confused by the readings.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-with-prozinc.266416/

 

Tagging Melissa for you @FrostD

 

Replied in the other thread, let's keep replying over there