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Jnfr

Jnfr

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I learned on Mon., Nov. 21 that my cat, Rousseau has diabetes. He needs an injection of 2 units of ProZinc Insulin 2x day using U40 insulin syringes. I also tried to start him on Purina DM (dry) food but I'm just mixing it with regular food until he adjusts to it. He doesn't like it at all, even mixed with the regular dry food so I've had to mix it with soft food or tuna. Rousseau is a long haired, white cat, most likely a Turkish Angora. He's probably 10 years old. I adopted him from a shelter 9 years ago in CO. We live in WA state now. He is a very sweet, loving, laid back cat who wouldn't harm a bug. He's had dental problems too so he's missing some teeth. I have two other cats (I think you call them 'civilians'). One is a 16 yr old female tortoiseshell and the other is a 4 yr old male domestic shorthair. It's been good to find out how much information there is about feline diabetes but it is a bit overwhelming too. I have not bought a glucometer yet or the meter to test ketones but probably will this weekend. This has taken a bit of an adjustment for us all. It's hard for me to tell how much better he is doing. He still seems to be peeing more than he ought to. I've tried to read as much as I can about feline diabetes from FDMB and other sources but any advice would still be welcome. It's also confusing because some of what I've read conflicts with my vet's advice.
 
Welcome to the site.
First thing i'd like to mention is that the dry food, any dry food, is too high carb and for diabetes, you want to feed low carb wet food. There are many cats who are diet controlled, just by taking away the dry foods and feeding low carb wet.
Here are some links to info on diet.
One of my cats will have her numbers go very high if she eats even just a few pieces of dry food as she's very carb sensitive.

Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

Take a look at the foods listed on Binky's list to see the carbs etc and check for the wet food you have been feeding.
Most are just fine on Fancy Feast or Friskies or 9Lives, all the pates flavors.

I realize that much of you hear and read on this site will conflict with what your vet may say but the people on this site have lived with their diabetic cats and know first hand what works. Dry food is like kitty crack, so take it back to your vet and say your cat refuses to eat it and get a refund.

You mentioned teeth; if he has any outstanding dental issues, they may also contribute to your cat's high BG numbers.

I can't comment on the insulin you are using as I have no experience with it, but regardless of the insulin, it's very important to home test.... you would like to try and see if you can get your cat in remission, and if you don't test, you'll never know.

It may take a bit for him to get used to it all, but in very short order, you and he will have a routine...before you know it, he will be reminding you that it's time to test!

Good luck and welcome to the site.
 
Welcome - is it Jennifer? - and Rousseau,

It is overwhelming to get the diagnosis and then when you go looking for information, you get a group of people on the internet who do not agree with your vet.

Vets do not see many diabetic cats. In school, they may take one workshop; their nutrition classes may be given by Purina. They generally do not want to scare their patients, so they may just prescribe insulin and hope for the best.

We see several new diabetic cats a day. Our protocol has worked for thousands of cats, getting them regulated and many into remission. We feed wet lo carb food. This vet explains why it is best: www.catinfo.org We use mild, long lasting insulin. (ProZinc is a good insulin) We start low and go slow, adjusting the dose as we test our kittie's blood glucose levels. We like to start at one unit every 12 hours and increase if and when the numbers suggest that would be best.

We would like to see you start home testing, as you are giving quite a dose of insulin. Here is how we do it: Video for hometesting We have taught hundreds of people how to do it over the internet and would love to teach you.

The second step is to get Rousseau eating better food than dry. But we suggest you don't switch completely over until you are testing. We switched our Oliver from dry to wet and overnight, his blood glucose levels went down 100 points. If we had just given him his usual dose, he could have hypoed. It would be great if Rousseau would eat wet lo carb, but it may involve some work on your part. The earlier website I gave you has great tips for transistioning from dry to wet. Most cats don't like Purina DM - it is liver based and they seem to get tired of the taste. Most of us feed Fancy Feast, Friskies, Merrick, Wellness, Blue Buffalo - whatever our cat will eat that we can afford.

Keep reading. Ask questions. This forum is a wonderful support group. We would love to help you help Rousseau.
 
Hi and welcome to you and to Rousseau.
Yes, it is all a bit overwhelming. Starting now, that gets easier, I promise.

I have not bought a glucometer yet or the meter to test ketones but probably will this weekend.
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Fantastic idea! Just about every one of us uses a glucometer to test kitty's blood glucose levels, at least twice a day. It is the only really safe way to treat a diabetic cat. It is very important to know what the BG is before you give him a shot, so that you can be sure the dose is not too high or too low.
He needs an injection of 2 units of ProZinc Insulin 2x day using U40 insulin syringes.
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Good on the insulin, Prozinc is a good one and there are people here who use it every day on their kitties. Twice a day is the way it's supposed to be done, and the shots should be 12 hours apart. "Normal" starting dose is 1u, vs. 2u.... do you know what Rousseau's blood glucose numbers were when he was diagnosed? Sometimes there are good reasons for a larger than normal starting dose. Did the vet say anything about any other conditions when you found out he was diabetic?
He still seems to be peeing more than he ought to.
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Excessive drinking and peeing are the two most common signs that a cat might be diabetic. Of course, most people like you and me didn't know that. I had never even heard of feline diabetes when I found out that Bob was a "sugarcat". As his diabetes is brought under control, that will go away, and he'll return to drinking a lot less and peeing a lot less.
I also tried to start him on Purina DM (dry) food but I'm just mixing it with regular food until he adjusts to it. He doesn't like it at all, even mixed with the regular dry food so I've had to mix it with soft food or tuna.
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Well, it's really not a bad thing that he doesn't like the DM dry food. In fact, eventually we hope that you are able to totally get rid of the dry food from his diet. A diabetic should consume as low a level of carbohydrates as possible. Same thing for cats. Dry food is really high in carbs, even the "prescription" dry foods that are usually recommended by vets. Some vets just don't know that, because unfortunately, a lot of them don't see many diabetes cases. They have to know a little bit about all sorts of sicknesses, injuries, and diseases on many different types of animals. Not too many have the time or the need to become an "expert" on just one thing. That's why it is so great that you found this place! All of us have dealt with feline diabetes, many of us more than once with our kitties. So be very happy you found this place!
The best diet for a sugarcat is an all-canned low-carb diet. If you click on these links, you will see dozens of canned foods listed. Pay close attention to the column that says "carbs".....and look for those that are under 10%. Those are the ones you will want to feed Rousseau. Popular brands with us are Fancy Feast Classics, Friskees Pates, and Wal Mart Special Kitty, which are easy to find and affordable. There are also lots of other good choices on those charts.
It might take him some time to get off the dry food, which is okay, but you should try to get him eventually on an all canned food diet. Just doing that will lower his BG levels a lot, and some cats can even get off the inuslin once their diet is changed. You won't want to do the switch until you start home testing though, because it will most likely drop his BG quickly, and then that dose of insulin will probably be too high, and will need to be lowered.
It's also confusing because some of what I've read conflicts with my vet's advice.
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Don't feel alone in that. Most people who get here say the same thing. And most of that is due to what I said earlier. Unless a vet sees lots of diabetic cats, some of what they tell you will be different than what you hear from us. I won't flat out say "We are right, and he is wrong!). A lot of how you move forward with this will depend on you. You can hear what you vet tells you, and what we tell you, and what you might read here, and then you will make up your own mind on what to do.
But, please ask lots of questions. You are going to get a lot of really good advice from people here. We are here because we want to help you and Rousseau, just like people helped us out when we first came on board.
Here are the links to the food charts. Take a look, and take things one step at a time. Just like he didn't get diabetes overnight, it isn't going to go away overnight. But it CAN go away. My cat Bob needed insulin for 10 weeks. I switched him to a low carb canned diet, tested his BG regularly, gave him his two shots a day, and today he is a diet contolled diabetic and in better shape than he was before he got sick.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Again, welcome to FDMB!

Carl (and Bob) in SC
 
Welcome to the group.

As the others have mentioned, since you are already giving insulin, hold off on changing the diet. Why? A diet change to low carb canned food may drop the glucose levels 100 points, nearly overnight. Unless you are testing, you won't know that and your kitty could have an attack of hypoglycemia, which could be fatal.

Many of us use the WalMart ReliOn Confirm glucometer - it has one of the least expensive test strips out there, they are often open 24 hours.

If you aren't fond of WalMart, the generic version of this glucometer is the Glucocard 01. Both are made by Arkray, USA. You can get the Glucocard online - one place is American Diabetes Wholesale
 
Welcome to the BEST place you will ever find to help you with your baby!

I wanted to say that testing at home is the way to go. My sugar Bean was dx at bgs around 400 and on 1unit of PZI. After the curve, one week later in the vets office, she was in the upper 400. He doubled the amount 2 times a day.... Because of this site, I did not. However, I did increase a couple of times to 1.25 and 1.50 because I did not want to go against the vets advice. After finding this board, getting great advice, she has not been back to the vet since.

We did get a meter and was attempting the testing.... mommabean was not very good, and Bean wasnt used to me trying to test. Practice won (with treats of course)! We finally got a reading which was +2 hours after the shot and Bean was ONLY 27 bgs!!!
This was of course after the vet was closed, I posted here and spoke with someone on the phone from here for hours, bringing up her bg to a safe number (spreadsheet in my signature). My Bean is now in remission!!! With the help from from HERE, my Bean is still with me today as I just know if I had gone on my vets advice alone, she would be gone. I did make her a promise to never ever shoot insulin again without testing. Switching to wet food was not an issue really, but the drop in the bgs was. She dropped alot without that dry and boy did it make me glad I was testing before I did this!

She is being introduced to raw food that I make from home and loves it. I follow the receipe from Dr. Lisa's site and also feed low carb from Binkys list from here - f. feast, friskies and petsmart sophicat. Something that helped with the raw transition was to grind up in my magic bullet some frez dried treats and sprinkle on top of the food. I have used Grandma Lucy, Pure Bites and petcos brand of tuna flakes. There is also some Foraflora that I purchased from the vets office, they come in small packets that helped too. Perhaps you could try that with the wet food for him???

Rousseau and his mommabean is in the BEST place to be!!
Keep us posted :-D
 
Thank you everyone. I was already feeding Rousseau some soft food before the diagnoses (Friskies mainly) which he (and the other boy kitty, Buddha) likes much better than any dry food anyway. I looked up Janet and Binky's food list and bought some high protein, low carb canned food (Fancy Feast Classics) which I already started feeding him so now I'm concerned about giving him too much insulin because some of you said his BGs would drop just from the diet (which makes sense) but I'm afraid to give him less insulin. I'm not home during the day to monitor him either, in fact I'm gone about 13 hrs a day usually. I can't remember off hand what BG the vet got from his blood test but it was over 400.

His kidneys and everything are fine. He had a bacterial infection in his mouth about 4 years ago and had to have some teeth pulled so that wasn't related to the diabetes which is a recent diagnosis. Now he just needs one tooth pulled due to decay (and skin is growing over it) and a cleaning but the vet won't do that until he's more regulated.

Even though I've only been giving him the shots for a week he's learned to expect it and it's become more difficult to give him the shot. He jumps away as soon as I lightly pinch the skin. I pet him and try to give him treats but he still doesn't want to cooperate. Normally he's the kind of cat you can get to do anything.

I'm really glad I found FDMB.

Regards,
Jennifer
 
We always gave Oliver the shot while his face was deep into his breakfast and dinner. He never noticed.

Even if you are gone during the day, testing before each shot can help keep him safe. Knowing that the dose you are planning on is logical based on his blood glucose levels is a great peace of mind.
 
Hi Jennifer!

I work two jobs and go to grad school, so during the week I am gone 12 hours, and my work is an hour away from home so it's not like I could run home during my lunch break and test. What I did was test before each shot to make sure it was safe to give insulin (this will solve your problem with being afraid the dose is too high with the diet change, but being afraid to lower it as well...when you test you know whether it's too high or low), and then test before bed, and I'd also set an alarm to get a mid-cycle number at around 1am, and then go right back to bed. On a Sat or Sun when I was home during the day, I would do a curve once a week. So testing is very doable even for us super busy people, and it pays off big time because it dramatically increases your cat's chance of remission, and dramatically reduces your cat's chance of hypoglycemia. Bandit's in remission now because I used daily testing to tightly regulate his blood glucose, and it's way easier on my schedule now to not give any shots and test once a week.

Make sure you're leaving food out for him while you're gone during the day, too, so that he has something to eat if his blood sugar does drop low. You can freeze portions of wet food and leave them out, or (if Rousseau will gnaw at the frozen chunk of food like Bandit does) you can use an auto feeder. I have this one, but there are many other options online in all sorts of different price ranges.

What size syringes are you using? The U-40 syringes? Someone here can help you with the conversion, but one possibility is switching to the smaller u-100 syringes (there's a conversion chart here: http://felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm). The 31g, 8mm, .3cc u-100 syringes with half unit markings are so small Bandit never even noticed he was getting a shot, not like he was when I was using 1/2 inch syringes. Plus the needle is so short you can shoot faster, without having to worry about missing the shot by having it poke through the other side of the skin where you've tented it. Like Sue, I always gave Bandit his shot while he was distracted by eating breakfast and dinner, and he rarely even noticed me giving an injection.
 
I can't remember off hand what BG the vet got from his blood test but it was over 400.
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You can't say for sure without testing it yourself, but I'd be willing to bet his numbers are not that high right now. It also depends on how that was tested at the vet. If it was just a one-time blood check then that number at the vet office may have been higher than normal just because he was at the vet. Most kitties get stressed at the vet (strange sounds, strange smells, strange people poking and prodding, etc.) and stress raises BG levels. Also, that was before any insulin or diet change would have helped his numbers. If the insulin and food change are working, his numbers are probably lower now. That dose may be higher than it needs to be (or lower?) but you can't tell without a test.

With regard to the shot and him not cooperating.... where are you giving him the shot? And do you know what type of syringes they gave you? If you look on the box it should say something like ".5cc u40 x 1/2"... do you see anything like that?

Carl
 
Oh, one more thing I'd like to add--are Rousseau's dental problems because of tooth resorption (FORLs)? Bandit has a tooth resorption problem as well (he's had to have all of his teeth pulled over the years except his two lower canines because of it). I can tell you from personal experience that if you wait for Rousseau to be regulated to have the dental done, you'll be waiting forever. My old vet told me the same thing, and the problem is that the bad teeth will keep Rousseau's blood sugar high so that he'll never be regulated. Take a look at Bandit's spreadsheet in my signature--I have the day we had his dental done highlighted in purple. You can see that he became regulated nearly right away afterwards. Definitely get the dental/extractions done asap. Any infection or inflammation in the gums will keep him high and increase his chances of Diabetic Ketoacidosis, so make sure you're also testing for ketones.
 
It's been a little easier to give Rousseau his shot while he's been eating but he still knows it's coming and moves away while trying to eat at the same time. I can try the smaller syringes once I've used up the box of U40 ones I have. He gets his shot and food in a separate room which he likes to be in with me. I mainly do that so that the other boy kitty (Buddha) doesn't try to eat Rousseau's food which he'll do even though he has his own.

I bought a Bayer Breeze 2 meter at Costco Wed. night but haven't used it yet. I still have to read the meter instructions and watch the video for home testing. Has anyone used this meter and if so know how the numbers compare to others? I had a hard time deciding which one to get because there are so many and they all seem to have advantages and disadvantages based on everything I read here and from other sources.

Rousseau didn't have FORLs; it was a bacterial infection. I don't remember the details since it was a few years ago. He now just has one tooth that needs pulling because of decay and the rest cleaned. I will try to make an appt. soon; hopefully the vet will do it.

Thanks for the links, advice, and support.

-Jennifer
 
I do not use that meter but any meter is better than none. Glad you purchased one and plan to use it soon. Perhaps he is trying to tell you he doesnt need a shot??? Maybe his number is low enough to not shoot? I know that sounds crazy but Bean acts up when I try to test her and I just have to think that just maybe that is because she is telling me her # is just fine?? at 58, well, heck, I guess she was right.
So glad you are going forward with the testing. great job.
When I first started giving Bean insulin, she was allowed to eat on the counter and I shot while she was eating. She almost bit me once or twice. I could not figure out why and still to this day dont really know, but I do know I was shooting w/out testing at first. and as you can see on her spread sheet in my signature, her first successful test, she was only 27. I just think that perhaps she was talking to me but I was not completely listening.
Good luck with the dental! Keep us posted~ :smile:
 
Hi hi!

I just bought the Breeze 2 today...I was at Walmart looking for the ReliOn that so many people mentioned, and when they didn't know what I was talking about, I realized that I'd have to hammer down and choose one.

How did you find it? I'll start using it tomorrow!
 
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