I'm new here and seeking some answers

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Bexygirl83

Bexygirl83

Member Since 2017
Hi everyone! I just posted on the introductory forum but I'll post here too. My girl Audrey was diagnosed several months ago and we're struggling. Vet has her on Vetsulin twice a day. We started out on 4u2x a day. It has since gone up in whole increments to 5,6, and now the vet today has suggested going to 7u twice a day. I feel like this is too much. I don't currently test at home, though I'm very interested in trying. Also, I have 3 cats, one of which has never eaten wet food so I typically have dry food available all day. I think the wet food I'm giving Audrey is probably you high in carbs. Mostly I feed her fancy feast gravy lovers. I'm just seeking an answer to our high glucose problems. Thank you for having us here and for any advice given.
 
For food options, the suggested method is wet but there is low carb dry food Young Again and the Dr Elsey. Gravy is usually high carb and kept around for steering low numbers are in case of a hypo.

There is a food list done on catinfo.org by Dr. Lisa that list a lot of commercial foods and their carb content. Click here If you are not from the US or Canada we do have other members around the world that can chime in.

Testing at home is one of the best tools we have for keeping your kitty safe and gives you the information you need to help Audrey. No advice on dose will be given without it. Here is the instructions on setting up a spreadsheet that we use.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

And this is how it works...
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

I don't want to overload you right now so that is it.


I can't comment on the dosage that you are on, but it isn't uncommon for vets to up the dose too quickly and pass the right one. We can help you with that. There is also conditions that require large doses.

Please ask any questions you may have. If you need assistance on how to home test, there are several videos on you tube and we can help you with a list of supplies if you are wondering on that.
 
Your vet started you out on a VERY high dose, so it's possible he's getting too much insulin! Most of us start at 1U and go up in .25 unit increments so we don't bypass a good dose.

If they're getting too much insulin, their body will fight back by releasing stored sugars and hormones to keep them from dropping too low....the only way to know will be to home test.

Also, the dry foods are too high in carbs, as are the Gravy Lovers foods (although the Gravy Lovers are good to have around in case they drop too low).....most of us here feed Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pates or 9-Lives ground foods, but there are lots of choices in the chart Tracey posted above. You want foods that are less than 10% carbs

If you live in the US, WalMart has the Relion Confirm or Micro blood glucose meters that a lot of us use here. They take the tiniest sample size and the strips are affordable ($36/100)

IF you change your cats food to something low carb, it's very important that you're home testing first!! Dropping the carbs when a cat is on that high a dose could lead to a tragic hypo. We can help you learn to test too! Here are some good videos (you can test on either side of the ear...inside or outside...I think the inside is easier because there's less hair)

 
Home testing for me really put my mind at ease. It's really worth it. I also put Charlie on ff pate. The food made the difference. Lots of support on here and I found people on here in general new as much or more than vets.
 
Tracey&Jones said:
For food options, the suggested method is wet but there is low carb dry food Young Again and the Dr Elsey. Gravy is usually high carb and kept around for steering low numbers are in case of a hypo.

There is a food list done on catinfo.org by Dr. Lisa that list a lot of commercial foods and their carb content. Click here If you are not from the US or Canada we do have other members around the world that can chime in.

Testing at home is one of the best tools we have for keeping your kitty safe and gives you the information you need to help Audrey. No advice on dose will be given without it. Here is the instructions on setting up a spreadsheet that we use.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

And this is how it works...
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

I don't want to overload you right now so that is it.


I can't comment on the dosage that you are on, but it isn't uncommon for vets to up the dose too quickly and pass the right one. We can help you with that. There is also conditions that require large doses.

Please ask any questions you may have. If you need assistance on how to home test, there are several videos on you tube and we can help you with a list of supplies if you are wondering on that.
Click to expand...
I would definitely be interested in what supplies to use. Do you use a sliding scale with certain insulin like in humans? Is there a % to stay under in carbs for wet and dry food?
 
Bexygirl83 said:
s there a % to stay under in carbs for wet and dry food?
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Most try to stay under 8% for carbs - the list is a great resource for that.

List for home testing.
  1. A Glucose meter - you can pick one up at Walmart - the Relion. The Confirm uses less blood for the sample which can be handy.
  2. Some test strips - I usually keep 200 or so on hand. Sounds like a lot but when you first start testing or have a low number you are steering, you can use them quickly.
  3. Cotton balls - to hold against the ear and to hold the ear after to prevent scabbing and bruising.
  4. A sock filled with rice - to warm the ear if it is cold. They don't bleed easily when cold.
  5. Polysporin/Neosporin - the one with pain relief. It will help the ears not to feel so raw, prevent scabbing etc.
ETA - Lancets - most that are available are the 30 or 31 gauge - which is small. The larger the number the smaller the lancet. I use 28 gauge ones but am looking at going back to a smaller gauge as his ears have learned to bleed for me.
 
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You are getting great advice from other members. Home testing is the only way to ensure the safety of your kitteh. Please read about Hypos, and be prepared for one.
Hypos and being prepared

The best thing you did was coming to this forum. Lots of good info and people here.
 
Bexygirl83 said:
Mostly I feed her fancy feast gravy lovers.
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Yes, that is high carb. (Many US folks use that food to raise blood glucose when it drops too low!)
But don't change it yet!
As others have said, you'll need to learn to hometest first and be able to monitor the effects of the diet change; otherwise your kitty's blood glucose could drop way too low and she could become hypoglycemic.

Well done for wanting to learn to test. Yay!
And the good news is that your kitty's blood glucose may drop quite a bit once you're able to reduce the carb content of her diet. :)

Welcome to FDMB, @Bexygirl83 ! :bighug:
.
 
Bexygirl83 said:
Do you use a sliding scale with certain insulin like in humans?
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It is possible to use a sliding scale with Vetsulin. ...Some cats do better with fixed dosage, some do better with sliding scale. It all depends on the individual kitty's response to the insulin.

Bexygirl83 said:
Is there a % to stay under in carbs for wet and dry food?
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We recommend that diabetic kitties eat only foods that have less than 10% calories from carbs. ...You won't find the carb content written on the can. It needs to be calculated. Folks here will have their own suggestions for you, and there is also a list of suitable foods. But for now, learn to hometest... :bighug:
.
 
Dr. Lisa Pierson's food chart linked here.
It's an analysis of most of the cat foods - carbs, protein percents. The list is large. First you can look up what you are feeding kitteh. Like Elizabeth said, anything above 10% carbs is generally not good for diabetics.
 
Has anyone used a CVS brand advanced glucose meter? The test strips are super affordable. 9.99 for 50. Was wondering if this would suffice for home testing?
 
Someone did but I can't remember who :facepalm:. Anyways, it should work fine. It take the same blood size sample as Walmart's ReliOn Prime, 0.5µ. May have an issue with it depending on how well Audrey's ears bleed. Part of the reason many choose ReliOn Confirm or Micro, which only takes 0.3µ. Strips bought in store are $0.36 each when you buy 100, so just a little more than the CVS ones.

Tracey gave you the link for the Spreadsheet template and Jeff gave you the Hypo info so I'll just add the Signature setup instructions ;). It will be super helpful as you continue to post and it helps those of us with bad memories :smuggrin:: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/
 
Welcome Bexygirl & Audrey!

I'm only a diagnosed about a month ago. Fabby's #'s were in the 500's regularly before we started vetsulin and diet change.
I chose the ReLion Prime from Wal-Mart because they are 24/7 and our local pharmacies aren't. So I wanted access to supplies in an emergency if needed. (Since it seems you have to use the same brand strips as the meter.)
Testing was easy. I also figured for $15 if I didn't like the ReLion I could always upgrade later once I was more familiar. (So far, I haven't even thought about changing meters.)
I think the food change has actually made the biggest difference. I too have multiple cats, so Fabby is quarantined (by a baby gate as she doesn't jump). We don't free feed as I have several diets going on for different cat issues. Fabby gets fed & tested 4x a day. The spreadsheet is easy to use and better than any phone app out there.
Start with one new thing at a time. It gets easier. Definitely focus first on home testing as the tests in the vet office can be higher due to stress/travel.
Good luck to you both!
 
Ok, so I bought my testing supplies and tested her as soon as I got home just to try for my first time. Everything went fine. I fed her a can of her normal fancy feast(higher carbs than she should have, starting soon on that) earlier at about 5 pm and gave 6u of Vetsulin as our usual routine. Her glucose check was 157 at 916 pm. Not sure what her range should be but I'm still learning. I just wanted to share this first timers experience with everyone helping us! I can't believe how little my vet has given me but entrusted me with the life and well-being of my sweet girl. Thank you all for being here to help!
 
Excellent work on your first test!
In my signature you'll see my spreadsheet I use for Fabby. Once I started home testing I liked to look at others sheets to see progress/changes etc. When you set up your spreadsheet when you type in the numbers it's automatically color coded. The colors give you a quick glance on if things are good, etc... and easier to spot trends.
Every cat is different, so it will depend on how your cat puts up numbers if 157 is good or not. (It would be blue on the spreadsheet, which in general is good.)
Great start! (The learning curve is big, but it does get easier!)
 
Audrey's glucose before feeding this morning was 480! whoa...I'm still a little lost on a few things. how many times a day should i be testing? Should I keep her dose the same?? Is an entire can of ff too much food or is there a guide to follow per feeding time? I'm sorry i have so many questions. I'm going to try and keep posting her glucose tests on her spreadsheet. I've pulled up the dry food so she's not freely feeding during the day like she normally would. I planned on gradually going to the ff pate since it's so low in carbs. I'm just so unsure of what to do with the testing and food guidelines. When should i try another dose besides the 6 my vet has suggested?
 
Bexygirl83 said:
Audrey's glucose before feeding this morning was 480! whoa...
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Grats on first test last night :) but that was probably quite a drop for her so what you're seeing this morning is the Somogyi effect, more commonly referred to here as bouncing.

Something written by Kris & Teasel - Here's how bouncing works:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
  7. Many vets have little/no understanding of the bouncing phenomenon.
Bexygirl83 said:
how many times a day should i be testing?
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Minimum AMPS and PMPS. These are pre-shot tests taken with no food eaten 2 hours prior and 20-30 minutes before insulin shot time.
Bexygirl83 said:
Should I keep her dose the same??
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You will probably reduce it as you switch her to lower carb food. Since you pulled up the dry completely, might even want to reduce the dose in half.
Bexygirl83 said:
Is an entire can of ff too much food or is there a guide to follow per feeding time?
Click to expand...
If she is hungry and eats it all that's fine. As her numbers get under better control she shouldn't be as ravenous because her body will start being able to use the nutrients properly from food.
Bexygirl83 said:
I'm sorry i have so many questions.
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No problem, it's how we learn ;)
Bexygirl83 said:
I'm going to try and keep posting her glucose tests on her spreadsheet. I've pulled up the dry food so she's not freely feeding during the day like she normally would.
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Please try to keep it updated, we do worry when it's not updated for days. You can free feed her with wet food, up to 2 hours before PS time. If you're not home, many use an automatic pet feeder like PetSafe 5 meal or for tighter budgets; catfoodsicles. Freeze portions of wet food with water and put them in her bowl when you leave :)
Bexygirl83 said:
I'm just so unsure of what to do with the testing and food guidelines.
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Can you clarify exactly what you're confused with? We'll try to help :)
 
My Fabby also seems ravenous when her blood glucose is high.
You're doing great.
You've got both testing going and your spreadsheet up! Now is about swirling into a routine and managing the details, like what food and how much insulin.

What I've found is the high numbers are not too much to worry about. (We have diabetic cats, the numbers are high, that's why we're here...) It's more about trying to get a slow and low decline in the numbers so the blue maintains all through the day. We do that by managing diet and insulin. (Or so it seems, I'm not there yet.) Right now, your in info gathering stage. The more info you can collect the better the experienced people here can help you towards the goal.

So deep breath! You got this!
 
Bexygirl83 said:
Has anyone used a CVS brand advanced glucose meter? The test strips are super affordable. 9.99 for 50. Was wondering if this would suffice for home testing?
Click to expand...
I use that one! It works really well actually! And the lancets I use are nice and cheap too!! I would recommend if you are on a budget go ahead!
 
Hi everyone! I was wondering if anyone had any advice as to what I should do next. Audrey's glucose seems pretty high at both amps and pmps. Not sure if insulin I've been giving isn't enough? Any advice is welcome! It's hard for me to get am checks throughout. I've been using her spreadsheet.
 
Bexygirl83 said:
Hi everyone! I was wondering if anyone had any advice as to what I should do next. Audrey's glucose seems pretty high at both amps and pmps. Not sure if insulin I've been giving isn't enough? Any advice is welcome! It's hard for me to get am checks throughout. I've been using her spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
So with the info you are getting, Audrey is totally "bouncing". We need to get that part under control.
If you can, please go into the Vetsulin page and ask the experienced people there to take a look at your spreadsheet and offer advice on how to stop the bouncing with Vetsulin.
Vetsulin is a short acting insulin. That means your highest numbers will be after the insulin has worn off. So your AMPS and PMPS should be your highest. But it's great you have some mid cycle testing in there after your PM shot, so you can see the drops. Good job getting your spreadsheet going and collecting all this info!
I know there's a document in here on bouncing, I'll see if I can tag you or post it here for you.
 
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