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nanci2589

Member Since 2014
Hi Folks.

I posted a few times about Jake. He was diagnosed recently.

We went back and forth about home testing, etc. At first my vet didn't want me to test him at home. She wanted me to bring him in a few times a week. That did not go over well with some of you.

So this is where I'm at. I ordered a home test kit (Alpha Trax) and used it for the first time today. Jake's numbers have been pretty consistent at 600. This morning it was 672.

Let me back up - we went from 2 units of insulin to 3 units, twice a day.

BUT and it's a big BUT. I thought Jake could eat all day so I've been feeding him canned food consistently. I have four cats and leave dry food out because I have one cat who will only eat dry and she grazes all day. So of course my other cats do too, including Jake. So I figured if he was full and satisfied, he wouldn't go to the dry food.

Well, this morning at the vet, his number was 672! She said to up the insulin to four units. I happen to mention the food and she said "oh no". She explained what was happening and said she's surprised Jake hasn't crashed. She said to forget the four and keep it at three.

Bottom line is to feed him twice a day only, AM and PM. No dry, no grazing. He needs to get stable first. They showed me how to use the test kit and it seemed easy enough. So her directions were to test him again around 2pm and call her.

I did but here is the part that has me biting my nails! I had to stick him at least 5-6 times before I could get blood. He is such a good cat but I knew he felt it and I knew the way he squirmed, he didn't like it! Who would!

I finally got a reading, it was 290. I called the vet and she said to give him 3 units tonight, don't test him but in the morning, test him, call her with the number. She wants to take it a day at a time and I don't need to bring Jake in if she can get a daily take on what his number is at

BUT the idea of pricking Jake has me so concerned. What am I doing wrong that I couldn't draw any blood. The tech did it in the office today and got it on first try. The last thing I want is for Jake to run away. I did give him a treat afterwards. I know this is my first time but still, it's not as easy as it looked at the vet's office

Does all this sound normal in terms of the direction I'm taking and is there an easier way to test him?
 
Hi Nanci and Jake!

I leave food out for a few hours morning and night as all mine graze too. We do have 2 that like a bit of dry but we stand there and make sure Doc doesn't get any of it. He gets special food he really likes when they get their dry so keeps him busy.

Blood - it takes a bit to learn how to get blood for the test. They already know the exact spot to hit. It WILL come and Jake won't hate you! Between my 2 boyz, they've been pokied 3-5 times a day for years. Even the last day, KT came to me when he heard his meter...one last pokie before he crossed last month. Don't be hard on yourself, you WILL figure it out with a bit of practice. Make sure his ears are warm - cold ear edges don't bleed. I'm SO glad you've started home testing, soon you'll look back and wonder what the big deal was. We've all been there, done that.

I know you spent the big bucks for the Alphatrak but I'll encourage you to go buy a human meter, my preference is the ReliOn 'Micro' from Walmart. Problem with the Alphatrak is that the strips are VERY expensive and only available when your vet has them and is open. If Jake dives and you need to test more, you can't just run get them. They're always available at Walmart. The 'Confirm' and 'Micro' take a much smaller bead of blood making it easier to use what you get.

HUGS and WELCOME BACK!
 
Hello Nanci and Jack,

A lot of people here use a baby's thin sock, put rice in it and microwave. I have a heat pack that came with a heat wrap that I nuke. If the ear is not warmed getting blood is going to be a lot harder than it has to be.

The next thing I have read here and am doing is Neosporin Ointment (not the cream) for putting on the ear pre and post blood letting (sorry couldn't help myself). The ointment helps the blood bead up. Vasoline would also help here if you do not have some for tonight's test.

I too use the AlphaTrak. I didn't know any better when Jack was diagnosed. The strips are expensive ($1.08/strip) but they are available from ADW but as Squeaky and KT say, you cant just go out to Walmart to buy them.

Since Samantha was also found to have diabetes, I decided to get a Human Meter, mostly because the people here are more familiar with those numbers. I got the ReliOn Confirm. I like it, I like the lancing device on the AlphaTrak better but anyway. It was not a bad idea to have 2 meters... just in case. The Cost of the strips for the ReliOn is .36/strip. Big difference. Since the meter is only $14.98, it is the better way to go I think. I know you paid at least $70 for the ALphaTrak alone. Maybe $125 with 50 strips...


don't test him but in the morning
Click to expand...

That is not quite all that is required. That is just about what my vet told me but I learned so much more from the people here... The Vet cannot determine how far you are willing to go. So start slow and get 1 reading call and then determine the next step.

You should test before each shot yes. And make sure they have had food...That is a given. Food as it is digested raises the blood sugar, the insulin has an action curve that peaks somewhere between +4-+6 hours after shot (when the blood sugar goes up because of food). Between the 2, it is supposed to level the BG out. Make sense?

So, not only should you test PS (Pre-Shot) you should test at + 4 and +6 to see how low the insulin is bringing the BG level down to. That is how you really know what the dosage is doing at the peak. This is the number you would make adjustments with, not just the Pre-shot or morning.

I am going to leave you with that. Others will come by and give you some more input.

Take care and all the best!
 
Thanks for the replies and yes, it's beginning to make sense.

Jake's number this morning was 292; half of what it's been. But as I explained, that was because I was letting him eat all day opening up several cans of cat food. I read so much about diabetic cats and either it wasn't there or I missed it but no where did I understand you cannot feed a diabetic cat all day! And as you know, diabetic cats are always hungry. So being Italian, my motto has always been, "you hungry, here eat something, even if you're not hungry, eat something". How I managed to keep my weight down all these years amazes me!

Anyway, back to the same problem. Jake squirmed, shook his head and it took me several pokes. I finally got my husband to hold him. I watched video after video of folks holding their cats, sticking their ears and these cats just sat there and some even purred. I know it depends on the cat but my Jake is the best cat ever with the sweetest disposition. I did the warm sock and rice first, I rubbed his ear and all he did was squirm. On videos and from some of these postings, it seems all the kitties just sit quietly. The vet wants me to test him no less than two times a day. She still wants him on 3 units but if it drops under 250, drop it down to two units.

So that is my challenge. I feel Jake is going to start hiding. And even after not eating all night, after the test, he barely touched his food. I know he was too stressed. The vet did say to give him firm poke - she explained that people are afraid to hurting the cat but several pin pricks is more hurtful to the cat vs. one firm prick. Yes, it makes sense but I still can't seem to do it effortlessly.

Second problem is the food - for 15 years I left dry food out all day. All I did was change the dish the morning - usually the dry food was gone.

Missy, my rescue will only eat dry food and she grazes all day. Molly, my pain in the butt calico will eat both dry and canned. Millie, Jake's sister who has early stage renal failure, will eat both but I try to give her prescribed food for her condition. All cats except for Missy get a small can of canned food in the AM and PM. That has been my norm.

Now I have to take the dry food away and only feed the others when Jake is to be fed. This morning, around 5AM, they were in my face meowing. They were hungry. I got up around 6:45AM but as soon as I went into the kitchen, all four cats were under my feet. It was almost impossible to corral Jake while the others ate - how unfair was that and then to stick him over and over again, was a double whammy. And of course the other cats sense this. I took him out to the lanai but I could tell the way the others were looking at me that they didn't know what I would do to them next! I think this is an easy fix; take Jake into the master bathroom and close the door while the others eat.

I am assuming none of you let your cat graze - the vet said absolutely not - this is why his numbers were in the 600. Do you have any solutions to this for a multi cat home? I can't stay home all day and watch when the others walk to the bowl.

In terms of the test kit; I ordered it through Amazon so I have to live with it - are you sure there are no other test strips that work with the Alpha unit? I thought I read that there was one other strip that works. I'll have to search for that post.

Thanks for the feedback; much appreciated.
 
Good morning! ~O)

Here's the link to your original post in case others want to go back and see what all has been talked about previously: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?t=125188.

Unfortunately, I can't help you with alternative test strips for the AlphaTrak (AT). We used the ReliOn from Wal-Mart. I don't know if you could sell the AT on eBay or to another member who might need it and get your money back or not. If you want to use the AlphaTrak, that's perfectly okay. It's just a bigger monetary investment. Some people are okay with that and prefer to use the AT because that's also what the vet uses.

Honestly, I don't understand your vet's logic on feeding. My vet wanted me to feed only twice a day, and I followed that advice for a long time. Jersey continued to lose weight, which wasn't what she needed to do at all. I only later found out that feeding multiple small meals a day was actually better for her. Since she was diabetic, her body wasn't able to properly use the energy in the food - which meant she needed to eat more until her numbers became regulated. The frequent small meals were also easier for her pancreas to process. Most people here do feed several small meals a day (just not during the two hours before shot time - that way the numbers aren't influenced by food).

I do think it's important to try to get rid of all of the dry food. It will be a lot easier if all of the kitties eat the same low-carb canned food. That way, you don't have to worry about Jake getting into high-carb stuff. I know Missy doesn't want to eat canned food, but there are some tricks and tips to help transition her over to canned food that might help. There are also low-carb, canned options that can work for kitties with renal issues, too. If Jake is only eating low-carb food, then eating several times a day is not going to cause his blood sugar to spike into the 600s. If that's what your vet is trying to imply, it just doesn't make sense to me. (I might be misunderstanding that. If so, just ignore me here! ;-) )

We were paw testers, so I don't know that I can add in any tips about ear testing that you haven't already received. Hopefully some of the ear testers can offer up some additional suggestions about what worked for them.

Shelly
 
I'm giving Jake Fancy Feast or Friskies. Sometimes Pro Plan. All pate with no gravy.

Jake's numbers spiked because I was feeding him all day and I also didn't stop him when he ate what remained in the other dishes.

I just got this off Web MD about feeding a diabetic cat.....

Typically you’ll feed your cat twice a day, administering a dose of insulin right after those feedings. Frostig feeds his cat half a can of high-protein, low-carb cat food in the morning and half a can at night, following each portion with a shot of insulin.
Click to expand...

So as you can see, it's confusing, feed small meals during the day; only feed twice a day.

I've been trying to find how often I should feed Jake and could only find Web MD.
 
I know it's confusing to get conflicting information from the vet, the internet, and people here. I was a member of the Lantus Tight Regulation (TR) forum, and the majority of individuals I interacted with fed/feed their cats several times a day (although they fed less after nadir - the low point in the cycle when the insulin is waning). That's what was recommended to me when I joined this site, and that's what I did. Fortunately, it worked for us. I personally disagree with your vet that feeding Jake low-carb food more than twice a day drove Jake's numbers up above 600, but that's just my 2 cents' worth - and that opinion is simply based off of my own personal experiences and what I've learned on this site....so please take my thoughts for what they're worth. ;-)

I looked at ProPlan in Dr. Pierson's food chart (http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf) because I'm not familiar with it. It looks like a lot of the ProPlan flavors are what most people here would consider to be too high in carbs (over 10%), although there are a few low-carb options. Some cats are more carb sensitive than others (e.g., they notice a difference when feeding their cats 3% carbs versus 7% carbs), which can complicate the process of choosing the "perfect" food.
 
Hi Nanci,

I too was told feed 1/2 a can twice a day before the shot and that is it.

Well I learned here that while they have to have food in their system prior to giving a shot (otherwise they might go too low), that if you split the meal down, it is easier on the pancreas. That is the organ that we must cater to and try to get back working properly.

I give about 2/3 of the 1/2 a can at shot time and the rest between 2 and 3 hours after. After that, there is no more. Outside of a Freeze dried, no carb, treat when I test.

Feeding within 2 hours of a pre-shot is not a good idea as it will inflate their numbers. Even with me splitting the meals, the numbers have drifted from when I only gave one meal but I know the reason why.

I think the Kitties on youtube were paid actors. I have never had a cat that would purr while you poke..Geezzzzz

As I mentioned before Jack was so sick he couldn't put up a fight. After he got better, he got feisty when I went to give the shot but to this day, tests are no big deal. Samantha, is more of a challenge but still doable.

After a while Samantha got the clue, that there was no avoiding it. Doesn't mean she is thrilled with it, but accepts it. The treat does help. I wave the bag under her nose before I approach, then at least she knows there is something at the end of this in it for her.

Kevin
 
That's what was recommended to me when I joined this site, and that's what I did. Fortunately, it worked for us. I personally disagree with your vet that feeding Jake low-carb food more than twice a day drove Jake's numbers up above 600
Click to expand...

This is how she explained it. Initially, Jake's numbers were over 600. I was bringing him to the vet and she was testing him. I didn't have the home test kit and each time I took Jake, his number was high. Unbeknown to me, I'm feeding Jake all day opening up can after can of pate cat food. Diabetics are hungry, he ate like it was his last meal all the time. The vet didn't know this.

How I understand it; numbers come down when you eat; insulin supplements this and keeps the numbers stable. The vet of course want his numbers stable eventually without insulin. So I'm feeding Jake, his numbers go down. Not knowing initially where he's at, I'm giving him insulin and feeding him. Obviously this much dipping and adding insulin can make Jake crash.

Because we're trying to regulate Jake, she only wants him to eat twice a day and yes, he should be tested before each meal.

Now maybe this isn't the right way to do it and you all may do different things but Jake is a new diabetic, it's only been a few weeks. Her concern right now it to regulate Jake with controlled eating and insulin.

Did I explain it correctly? I'm sure once I get a handle on this, I will relax and try different things.

I read the chart - it made no sense to me in showing the carb content in the foods listed. The carbs are not listed on cans - where did you find the carb content for ProPlan?
 
How I understand it; numbers come down when you eat; insulin supplements this and keeps the numbers stable. The vet of course want his numbers stable eventually without insulin. So I'm feeding Jake, his numbers go down. Not knowing initially where he's at, I'm giving him insulin and feeding him. Obviously this much dipping and adding insulin can make Jake crash.
Click to expand...

Actually, food causes blood sugar levels to rise. That's why diabetics will eat something like candy when their blood sugar gets too low.

With diabetes, blood sugar levels are consistently too high because the pancreas can't produce enough of it's own insulin (or the body can't properly use it). We give insulin to help the blood sugar levels come back down into a (hopefully) normal, safe range. If we give too much insulin, hypoglycemia can result. That's when we use high-carb foods to try to get the numbers back up into a safe range.

I read the chart - it made no sense to me in showing the carb content in the foods listed. The carbs are not listed on cans - where did you find the carb content for ProPlan?
Click to expand...

There are carb calculators that can help us calculate the percentage of carbs in food (based on how much protein, fat, etc. is in the food). Dr. Pierson, a veterinarian, actually contacted the pet food companies and asked for the "as fed" values in their food. (The "as fed" values are more accurate than the "guaranteed analysis" numbers you find on the cat food cans.) I'm assuming that some of the companies specifically told her the % carbs in their foods. For the others, I'm assuming she plugged the "as fed" values into a carb calculator to determine the % carbs in the food. If you're interested, here's the link to her website where she discusses feline nutrition: http://www.catinfo.org/. She also includes some information specific to diabetes on her site, too.
 
Hi Nanci,

I know you said you already ordered the AlphaTrak and intend on using it. I have an AlphaTrak and a ReliOn Confirm.

When you have to buy more strips for the AlphaTrak ( $54.00 for 50 at ADW) Please realize that you can buy a ReliOn Confirm meter and 100 strips for the $51.00.

Food for thought.

Correction 9/27 06:10 AM : 100 ReliOn Strips, Not 50.
 
As much as I read about diabetic cats, the less I seem to absorb. I am not a stupid person and a lot of this just doesn't sink in.

I could not test Jake this morning - I stuck him five times, I couldn't get any blood. I'm sticking the inside of his ear on what I think is the vein. My poor baby, he did not like this. I finally gave up and emailed the vet. I told her I fed him and gave him 2 units. She said that was fine; to take a break and test him tomorrow. As long as he's eating, he should be okay for one day.

I sat down and watched the video over and over again. Nice kitty just sitting on the owner's lap as he sticks his ear. Didn't even flinch. I'm afraid each time I go to test Jake, he's going to bolt.

In terms of the test kit; it's not returnable. Once I use it, I own it. When I run out of strips, I'll think about getting a human kit.

I am just in a turmoil over this - if I can't test Jake, then what! Bring him to the vet every day!!! That will cause more stress. When I watched the video, he tested the outside of the cat's ear, not the inside. The vet said either side works. I tried rubbing his ear first, I tried the warm rice/sock. He doesn't like that at all. He's good kitty but I can see and feel his frustration.
 
Hi Nanci,

I think that once you get the testing down and can get some numbers, what you have read will then "sink" in.

Patience..It is a virtue, or so I am told.

I find it fairly easy to test the back of the ear. Bending the ear back well, not sure I would do it but whatever works is the key. Either side is ok.

Let me ask you this, what are you using to "back" the ear? What is behind the ear when the lancet is on the top or bottom, doesn't matter... But if you don't have something more or less solid behind it, your shooting at a dart board that is just hanging in mid air. Sometimes it sticks, sometime it doesn't.

I have a rubber finger tip (used by accountants to flip papers).... I back the ear with this on my forefinger. That way I have something behind it to hold it firm while I press the lancet device to the ear. It also prevents me from stabbing myself, which I have done and I never felt it.


What depth do you have the lancet device set at? If it is an AlphaTrak,the options are 1,2, 3 or 4. I found 3 works fine. With handling it and changing lancets you can easily change the setting without wanting to. It happened to me.

Warm the ear, warm the ear, Did I mention to warm the ear? I get so much better blood when I do than when I don't.

Have you the Neosporin ointment? It helps bead up the blood...at this point you can use any extra help you can get.

Please do not get upset with yourself. That is the last thing that either Jake or you need. They can sense your frustration. Meditate...hmmmmmm, hmmmmmm ..Deep breath.....hmmmmm. Say and repeat to yourself, I can do this, I can do this, I CAN DO THIS!

You will not "have" to bring your kitty in to the vet every day. They have a Fructosamine test that the vet can perform. It gives them an average of the last couple weeks. This is just not good enough, in my opinion. The key is to monitor the BG levels, regularly and discreetly, so that you cant determine how he responds and whether it is safe enough to give an insulin shot.

Any change in cats routine, causes them angst. Remember, Dogs have Masters, Cats have Servants.

Samantha goes to the corner of the kitchen when she sees me put the warming bag in the microwave. She does not stray far as she knows 1. it is food time and 2. there is just no negotiating with Dad lately. A treat and mucho praise afterwards , seem to mitigate the issue.

Please continue to try, Jake is counting on you!
 
First of all, take a deep breath- and another! :YMHUG: Are you offering treats? My kitty Tiger loves Pure Bites chicken flavored treats, just like kitty potato chips! At first all I did was set up a pillow in the kitchen near her food dish and practice rubbing her ears. She hated the warmed rice sock, so I just have to make sure my hands are not cold and clammy. :lol: Then, give the treats and let her go. At first, She got her tests with her face in her little bowl. It didn't take long and now Tiger is waiting for me to give her the test and treat!

I know this very stressful for you, we've all been through it, but it will get better, I promise you! One of the best pieces of advice I read on this forum was to sing to your kitty :lol: The suggested song was, the Hokey Pokey! My Tiger looked at me like I had lost my mind - but the comic relief helped me not lose my mind! Here is a thread that you may find helpful: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=112041
 
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