I'm a newbie - Topaz

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topaz

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Just found out that our calico cat Topaz is now diabetic - 400 BG. She is almost 17 years old. This is a little scary so I'm so glad for the forum and the internet. Thanks in advance for comments, suggestions, etc. I already liked the "dear mommy" letter.
 
Welcome! There is lots of good information and support here. Start reading and asking questions. You will find we use a protocol that calls for wet lo carb food (www.catinfo.org), a mild long lasting insulin (Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc) with doses determined by hometesting. Video for hometesting Using this protocol, we have had hundreds of kitties safely regulated or in remission. We would love to help you help your kitty.

There are no silly questions and no one has ever asked too many. Everyone who responds to you is paying it forward for help they received when they first signed on - overwhelmed and terrified. Promise, it does get so much easier.
 
Hello and welcome!

Give us some more information, such as:

What led you to bring Topaz to the vet in the first place?

How was the diabetes diagnosed?

Did the vet say anything about other stuff being wrong, or is it simply diabetes?

What has the vet recommended?

What food are you feeding?

Are you on insulin yet? If so, which one and what dose?

Are you hometesting yet? If not, are you willing to learn? (It's really not hard. Can be scary to think about, but it's the best single thing you can do for the health and safety of Topaz.)

Feel free to give us other information, too. The more we know, the more we can help.
 
I'm new here also so I have no advice to give but I just wanted to say Welcome.

I have a cat named Topaz too but he isn't my diabetic kitty. My diabetic kitty is Smokey.
 
We brought Topaz to the vet simply for a geriatric check up. At her age, we thought a check up every 6 months made sense. So, our reason for the visit was fairly routine. She was not displaying any symptoms other than to say I did comment to my wife that she sure is drinking a lot. I did not know that excessive drinking might be an indicator of something wrong. And she is eating normally. She does this "self-barbering" thing on her left fore-arm. But, it isn't really a problem and the vets aren't especially concerned.

Needless to say I was surprised that to learn that she had a urinary tract infection - and diabetes. The vet suggested that the sugar in the urine is the perfect thing for a virus. OK, I can see that.

We [were] feed her both wet and dry. Mostly we give her Fancy Feast - fish formulas, not the flaky kind, the more solid kind. The dry food is IAMS Active Maturity - with hair ball.

She had a companion cat that died about 5 years ago. And we take her on weekend trips in the car. She doesn't seem stressed by the trips and seems to like the stimulus when we arrive at our destination - a house in the winter and our boat in the summer. I hope we can continue to take her along. She seems far more stressed by being alone over the weekend than to come along. She does really well in the car.

I brought her to our local vet this AM and she will stay there for about 3 days. I won't know much until later today.

I do intend on monitoring her blood at home. If I can do the needles, I can do the testing.

More when I know...
 
The definitive test for diabetes is the fructosamine. It gives you the average blood glucose levels over the past few weeks. A blood test or tests in the vet's office do not always show the whole picture. If Topaz is stressed at the vet, it can raise her bg levels as much as 100 points. And the UTI can also mean elevated bg levels.

Before starting insulin, I would definitely learn how to test at home. Here is a shopping list for you:

A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

It is not always as easy the first time as it looks on the video: Video for hometesting But we all have tricks that helped us so just ask for help.

And I would change the food over to all wet lo carb. When we switched Oliver from dry to wet, his levels went down 100 points overnight. Diet can make a huge difference. We pick food under 8-10% carbs from this chart: Janet and Binky’s chart We do avoid fish more than one or twice a week - too much mercury and phosphorus for a steady diet.
 
You will be able to take her along.

My Smokey had many medical issues and we never let it stop us from taking
him (and his friend Mr. Kitty) everywhere.

They were good travelers, too. We took them camping, on the boat, south to Arizona
for the winter (4 days travel and a travel trailer to stay in).

You just will need to set up a travel kit with the needed things. For insulin refrigeration,
I recommend a small 12-volt 6-pack size refrigerator, like the truckers use.

Where are you (City, State)....maybe we have a member near you.
 
yes i would like to know as i have a newbie kit on hold for an uncomfirmed address....hopeing it is you?
 
Topaz - Doing Ok with the insulin shots

We brought Topaz home after a three day stint at the vet. She was REAL happy to get out of there but we didn't go straight home. We traveled with her and we all did just fine with our first injections - 1xx of Prozine twice a day. We bought the Fancy Feast as recommended on this forum and are getting into a routine with this. We haven't yet done monitoring. We'll take Topaz back to the vet next week for a re-evaluation. I suspect we may be one of the lucky ones that go into remission. If not, we are prepared to do monitoring at home - all the stuff. The shots are proving easier than giving her pills. The needles are the short thin ones I've seen mentioned on the forum. This isn't that hard. But, we are more tethered to the cat than we are used to. I don't know what we'll do on vacation. Thanks everyone for the moral support and advice and counsel. :-D
 
John with your new low carb diet it can be EXTREMELY important to test...at the very least please have High Carb food always available and syrup, karo or honey...and be aware of hypoglycemic symptoms. they can kill or do much permanent damage if left untreated.
Did you ever order the newbie kit?
 
Great report !

Some of us here take our cats with us for travel/vacation.

If you have not yet made vacation plans, think ahead about how you might
be able to take Topaz with you.

I love the name Topaz. It's my birthstone (November) and my dance name
also (Belly Dance).
 
Our first return visit to the vet indicated very positive news and results. We administer a very low dose twice a day - just under one unit Prozine. The vet hasn't recommended using urine strips or even blood monitoring. The cat is now stabilized and we'll return in 6 months for a re-evaluation. This is not the norm I don't believe. I believe that because our dosage level is so low, that we get away without monitoring and dipping. Topaz is doing nicely and enjoys the attention as we practically spoon feed her as much Fancy Feast as we can about over the course of one hour prior to her injection. We do have a high sugar syrup on hand in case she has an episode of hypoglycemia. So far, no indication of anything like that. In fact, she's here helping me type.
 
One unit of ProZinc is a good beginning dose, but it is very possible that, with the new low carb diet, she will need less. If she were your child, you wouldn't blindly give insulin, taking her back in six months for a check up. I would urge you to treat your kitty the same way - testing before each shot to be sure the dose you are planning to give is safe.

We have people daily who have to reduce the dose, based on testing, down from one unit.
 
I can't help feeling frightened for Topaz.
I agree that shooting blind is a bad idea. I can preach from experience that diet changes EVERYTHING. If I wasn't home testing when I made the switch, there's no doubt in my mind I could have lost my beloved Callie Mae. If you don't take anything else away from the board, please realize this much. One meal can make all the difference between life or death. One meal can bring those numbers WAY down. Without home testing, there is no way of knowing what those numbers are. And being at the vet can cause high numbers, so even the vet checking isn't completely accurate.
Please consider getting a meter and keeping track. It's really not that difficult. With a little time, practice and patience, you'll be an old pro in no time! ;-)

Good luck. :smile:
 
One the one paw you have possible daily high numbers...brings on ketoacidosis (very costly to treat and often fatal), blindness, neuropathy and other such problems....on the other paw, you have low numbers....also very costly as they can result in hypoglycemic attack (deadly or serious long term damage)
On either paw you have unstable numbers causing rebound...only understood and treated if tested daily. If not understood often over dosed by vet doing his quarterly curve (all day vet stay while vet tests sugars)

Under no circumstances will kitty see remission.
Under no circumstances will kitty be in her best health.
Under no circumstances will kitty not experience other health issues....all with this current vet ordered plan of treatment.

Soooooo, unless that is acceptable to you. Unless you would be satisfied with a Dr. treating YOUR diabetes so casually as to have you shoot insulin blindly into your system (a deadly drug unless properly managed)...well please don't casually treat sweet Topaz this way.

It is not hard AT ALL to give your kitty the 5 star treatment, and who knows...become diet controlled with no need for insulin.
Would you like a newbie kit and a quick lesson?

Lori
and tomtom
 
Forgot to mention...your cat can have a glucose reading of 26 and be oh maybe 20 minutes from major crises and still running around having fun. Just happened here a week or so back...very first test. Untested we would be sending condolences as I type.
Just so you know.
And a small unit...for a cat...is the equivalent of 10 units for a human. So not as small a dose as you think.
Kitties here often get a half, even a quarter unit to treat their improving diabetes.
 
Hello to Mommy & Topaz'...
I AM AT WORK AND VERY BUZY, BUT I SAW THE MESSAGES AND HAD TO COMMENT.... THIS IS JUST A COPY AND PASTE... SORRY, ALL I HAVE TIME FOR RIGHT NOW.... WILL POST MORE LATER TONITE!!!!!!
*******************PLEASE READ..................
I am very new to the sugar dance, but we are doing great... I just wanted to respond to the testing issue... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not shoot w/out testing.... my first test was after approx. 2 weeks of 1 unit 2xday... curve at vet, him raising it to 2 units 2xday...which after being on this site, did not do the full 2 but did up the dose a small bit. I was not testing at home cuz I was scared and cuz the vet really did not push the issue when I brought it up; however, I was feeling more and more that I should because of this site! I finally got my 'big girl panties' on and tested for the first time (which took approx. 4 pokes to get a sample). I was +2(2 hours after the shot had been given) over the dose time and she was a BIG FAT 26!!! I did learn the hard way, many folks on this site stayed w/ me for 4+ hours, posting and on the phone - stepping me thru bringing up her numbers... WAS HELL!

I guess I just want to say TEST TEST TEST TEST! Then shoot! My Bean girl is sooo carb sensitive I have found out, and you can look at the spreadsheet that I have just started for her if you would like. In my notes on the side, I have recorded when she gets into the others higher carb dry food (caught her red handed)!

Oh my, how I hated to poke those tiny beautiful ears at first... still dont like to do it now, and the darn right one just will not bleed to save her life.... so the left is really probably getting sore as you know what, buttttt..... she will at least be tested 1 to 2 times a day, usually at shot time... Probably will be chastised here for not doing it more often.....I was so scared to do this that I had my kit for approx. 1 week before I even got it out.... I am still not the best at pokey poke time, but I AM BETTER... And Bean bonds with me now better than what she used to.... I started with the whole towl on lap... talking, rubbing, and play/rubbing the ears before the kit even came in the mail...She also gets a small treat...100% tuna flakes from Petco while mommy rubs those little ears.... then a small one when done... lots of loving words, baby, sweet talk and we get to bond... she gets tested and then she gets to go outside for her 10 min. of fun!!!!

Welcome here and please test your baby first!
Mommy to sugar bean, slappy girl, and new heart patient gumpy girlOhbell..... Mom to MS. BEAN
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl= ... utput=html
ohbell

Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Euless, Texas
Member since: April 21st, 2011
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So glad your kitty is able to travel with you! That makes is so much easier when giving insulin.

I am a little concerned that some of the scare tactics to get you to test will scare you from the board. I hope not because there is so much information and help here. Everything really is done out of concern and hope for better than just maintaining at a starting dose. Wouldn't it be wonderful to get off the insulin completely? Or at least know you are maintaining a healthy BG for Topaz? Though it does happen with kitties that are only tested at the vets, it is very hard because you just don't have a good picture of what the insulin is doing and what the body is doing on its own so it becomes very difficult to properly adjust the dose and the longer the kitty is on insulin, the harder it can be to reach remission. A BG at the vets doesn't really tell a person anything. It is a snapshot in time in a stressful situation. Many owners see 100 pt drops once the cat returns home. A fructosamine test will give you a better over all picture, but it isn't much good when you are standing there about to inject medication into your cat and have no knowledge of where the BG might be or where it might go once the insulin is on board. You can't take it back out once it is in so knowledge after the fact isn't much use if there is a problem.

It is wonderful that your vet is being cautious and starting at 1U and not increasing quickly. It could be a sign that they just don't know much and is just trying to maintain a safe number - not too high, but not too low. Safe numbers are not remission numbers. Many vets target getting a cat to around 200. That is and will remain a diabetic cat. As long as the BGs are above the normal range it will have long term effects on your cat taxing the organs. 3-4 pokes in the ear a day and you could get your Topaz to the healthiest place possible and maybe even get off the juice untie that insulin tether you now have. Testing is so easy and simple. Smokey still rubs her cheek on her meter and ear poker and purrs when I get them out to test.

My vet didn't encourage home testing either, but as soon as I started they were fine with it and didn't bother with having me come in for tests again once we tested the meters side by side. I'd just drop off the spreadsheet each week and she'd call to discuss dose adjustments. She really listed and I saw adjustments in her treatment methods after seeing how things were going with Smokey and she was actually a pretty good FD vet already.

I am so happy you have sought information to treat Topaz to the best of your abilities. Too many people would have throught treating diabeties in a 17 yo cat wasn't worth it.
 
Hi John, and, of course, you too, sweet Topaz,

Here's a bit of info on me. I am not an alarmist, I'm an encouraging hugger. I'm also very honest and am truly not a vet basher.

It took me one month and 28 days to test Giz. Yes, I was catching pee (Keto-Diastix test for the presence of ketones, and sugar spilling into the urine, meaning diabetic) within a week or two of her diagnosis. Yes, I learned a lot about the "whole cat" approach. No, I am not proud it took me that long to home test. But, that was when I was finally ready.

Giz's ER vet didn't recommend home testing or catching pee either. Giz was diagnosed diabetic and DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) in the same breath. She was in ICU in the ER hospital for three days/nights. Like you, I did not know the signs of diabetes.

In the course of researching feline diabetes, I kept coming back to the FDMB. It took me a while to be able to actually log on here as it was my first message board experience. (Thank you, dearest Robert!) Once I logged on, my world suddenly changed. I mean, here were people dealing with feline diabetes every single day and night...

Despite my respect and love for Gizzie's ER vet, I started catching pee. And, I gently and humbly let her know I was. She was good with it.



Okay, we've covered catching pee. Let's move on to home testing...

Once I bit the vampire bullet, I was simultaneously fascinated, intrigued, and grateful. Fascinated because it was so interesting learning how Giz was responding to the insulin. Intrigued because knowledge of how she was responding gave me a kind of power and confidence to deal with her diabetes. Grateful because, without home testing, I wouldn't have caught her hypo early on.






You seem like a very level-headed person, John. Let me give you some food for thought from someone who was reluctant to home test, if that's okay with you.

Giz was on increasing doses of Humulin N (this was back in 2003) based on +6 (6 hours after shot) tests every Sunday with the ER vet. Once I started home testing, I realized Giz experienced vet stress. (Think of white-coat syndrome many human patients feel upon seeing their doctor.) I found that Giz's BGs (blood glucose levels) could go up anywhere from 150-200 points at the vet's. I realized her doses were being increased based on that inflated number...


Oh, one more thing about me. I'm not a nag; but, I can nudge with the best of them...


Welcome to the place you never wanted to be; but, will be blessed for having found.

Encouraging hugs for you, Topaz, and your family,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
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