I'm a newbie.. Please help..

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Hey there, I'm not sure I've seen Sue post in a couple days.

What I can tell you is that I cannot access your SS. So you need to log out of Google then try to click on your link. If you can access when you are logged out of google then we should be able to see it too. Help can be found and asked for in the Tech Support forum.

Or you can try PMing me if you would like more help with your SS.
 
i would love to take a look at your spread sheet but it's not visable for us. sue (oliver) is the resident expert at getting that just right for you.
if on the 1 unit you are having higher numbers it is likely time to raise the dose. perhaps at .5 units at a time.
i'm just wondering if i read correctly you had a nice curve with the 3 units...usually a high dose but still a nice curve...don't know why rebound was considered. i probably missed something in all the reading.
i'll wait to see you SS/.
Lori
and tomtom too!
i love your enthusiasm to learn and do the very best you can. you will do very well here.
 
Welcome back! I am out of town and just checking in occasionally. And my Ipad won't let me help with the spreadsheet. Take Gator up on his offer. On his reply, pick PM on the bottom of the page and see him a private message. You are almost there. You just need to publish it so that everyone can see it and Gator can help with that.

As soon as you get it up, why don't you start a new topic and ask for Humulin advice. I asked Phoebe to watch for you so hopefully she will see it.
 
Hi - willing to help -- you need to take one more step with the spreadsheet - right now it is still "private", so we get "permission denied" when we click the link.

you need to "Publish" it so we can look.

very close!! hang in there,
phoebe
 
HELLO EVERYONE.. Thanks for all the info.. found the place where it said to publish.. have done so..
On the Tech forum page for publishing it does say that i am not supposed to change any privacy settings that would allow users to view without signing in. So i have left it private.. Please let me know if the publishing worked.. Talk with you all soon....
 
http://tinyurl.com is one way to shorten URLs

As for your signature, [for security reasons] phpBB will not translate html [the "<a href=...> <a/>" stuff. So if you just past your link into your signature then phpBB will automatically recognize it as a link.

Also, if you remove the last "&output=htmltarget=blank" from your link your SS will have enhanced functionality.

Good news is that I can now access your SS if I copy and paste the link.
 
good morning Gator.. Are you referring to the link in the address bar or the one that comes up when i open up the "publish to web page" and then there is the very very long link that i was told to copy and paste and put into my signature.. looking at the links you guys have for your kitties.. are much shorter than that..
Thanks I'll wait to hear back...
 
It looks like you are getting 6-7 hours before the insulin starts wearing off, which is decent for Humulin N. It is odd to see the few black and red numbers and I'm not certain why they are popping up when the rest of your preshots are in the pink. As for expiry, some people found that they could use the humulins past expiry, others found it started losing effectiveness. See a few more days of preshots before you throw it out....

I wish there was something else that stuck out that would explain his behaviour...it could be simply that he needs more insulin...
 
Great - I can see the spreadsheet now.

Humulin N's expiration date is more of a "sell by" date. Always check this when you buy a new vial, so they don't give you one that expires real soon.
Humulin N, if refrigerated and handled carefully, should be ok for the entire vial.

Humulin N is NOT like Lantus or Levemir, which must not be mixed.

Humulin N should be gently mixed before drawing up the shot -- because the insulin (white particles) settles to the bottom of the vial. I used to gently turn the vial about 10 to 15 times to mix it up. (now using Levemir)

Lantus is a fragile insulin that does tend to lose effectiveness after a couple of months.

If you think of your Humulin N insulin as being like tiny ice crystals -- if you shake too hard, the insulin molecules will break and no longer work.

The curve that you did on 12/10 shows that the insulin is completely gone by +10 (BG same as preshot)

This is typical of Humulin N, and it means that your kitty has no insulin for 4 to 6 hours every day.

That is why so many are using Lantus, Levemir or PZI. All these last longer in cats than the Humulin N.

Is dosing / injecting every 8 hours an option? That might help Tommy get some better insulin coverage from N.

phoebe

p.s. with BCP PZI, they label with the manufactured date and guarantee effectiveness for 6 months from that date.
 
photosquirrel14 said:
good morning Gator.. Are you referring to the link in the address bar or the one that comes up when i open up the "publish to web page" and then there is the very very long link that i was told to copy and paste and put into my signature.. looking at the links you guys have for your kitties.. are much shorter than that..
Thanks I'll wait to hear back...
Click to expand...

Currently the link in your signature reads:
Code: 
<a href=https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AnMURR6ic-MNdGM2d21oU19iOWlEdlg5ZHlHWmV3SkE&output=html target=_blank>tommys spreadsheet</a>

If you shorten it to:
Code: 
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AnMURR6ic-MNdGM2d21oU19iOWlEdlg5ZHlHWmV3SkE
The board will automatically recognize it as a link and even do further shortening. If you want a REALLY short URL then you can use TinyURL and feed the link above into it. But that's more fancy than most need here.

If you wanted it to read "Tommy's SS" and be linked to your SS then you would put this in your SS:
Code: 
[url=https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AnMURR6ic-MNdGM2d21oU19iOWlEdlg5ZHlHWmV3SkE]Tommy's SS[/url]
Then it would look like Tommy's SS

We have to use "BB code" and not HTML code on this board to achieve simple HTML tasks [for security reasons].
 
Thanks for all the advice everyone.. yeah i've heard conflicting stuff about insulin and the exp.. date.. i'm going to use it for a little longer.. I think his UTI might be back.. He's consuming a lot more water in the past couple of days too.. but still acting all right.. I haven't shaken the insulin.. I roll it like you do Phoebe..
I also spoke with another vet in our area the other day and was told that PZI can no longer be shipped across state lines.. So i would have to find it here in Missouri.. Do you know if this is in fact true..
Also, I could definitely try the 8hrs 3x a day.. I could do 8-4-12 and see... how would i break the doses down then... right now i am giving him 2.5U 2x a day... doesn't seem to be lowering his numbers like it should... Would you recommend i try to find a vet that carries PZI or levemir. One of our regular customers owns a vet clinic here in Troy Missouri and my husband has had many conversations with him.. Seems like a good man.. I just need someone that will take the time and actually care about my babies.... What do you think.. I've read that i should not change insulin type without having Tommy checked for other problems.. Is it quite possible that the reason for his numbers being high still is that his UTI could have come back.. and there is no way for me to check that is there... I would need to take another sample of his urine back to the vet?
One last thing for now, Gator.. where would i paste this on my ss : Tommy's SS Thanks again everybody..
 
Success! your spreadsheet is now linked in your signature.

When I went to TID dosing -- I started by splitting the total daily insulin (for Tommy 2.5 +2.5 = 5 u ) and divided into 3 equal shots.

since 5/3 is kind of hard to do -- I would go with 1.5u TID

Start on a day that you will be home -- as high as Tommy has been -- give 2.5u in the morning as usual.

At +8, test his BG. If over 200, then shoot 1.5u and continue on from there with tests, meals and shots every 8 hours. (you can make the meals a bit smaller to give 3 also -- with N, it is important to feed when they get the shot and they need to eat about a spoonful ~1oz)

I would suggest that you call BCP Vet Pharmacy about shipping PZI. I don't know of any changes that restrict the shipment -- however shipping costs are significant -- maybe your vet had some problems getting it or just didn't like the cost.

www.bcpvetpharm.com
Toll Free: 800-481-1729
Toll Free Fax: 866-PET-CHEW -- you do need to fax a prescription -- and ask that it be written for a year's supply (several bottles -- you can choose U40, U50 or U100 strengths in either 5ml or 10ml vials)

U40 is popular for giving tiny doses using U100 syringes (U40 is dilute so 1u fills a U100 syringe to the 2.5 mark)

U100 is the same concentration as Humulin N

It would be good to check for infections -- they can aggravate blood sugar.

Check out the new vet. Most do not know about using Levemir.
There are a number of articles about FD / Lantus published.
print out the info here --- and the 3 main reasons that I prefer Levemir to Lantus:

1. Levemir and Lantus are both gentle long-lasting insulins good for cats with BID and low carb diet.

2. Lantus has an acidic base liquid and stings when injected. Levemir does not - it has a neutral base.

3. Lantus is fragile and breaks down after 5-6 weeks -- requiring that you discard and start a new cartridge. Levemir is not as fragile, and I've been able to use the entire 3ml cartridge -- never had to throw away any from loss of effectiveness (using Levemir since 4/2009.
 
At +8, test his BG. If over 200, then shoot 1.5u and continue on from there with tests, meals and shots every 8 hours. (you can make the meals a bit smaller to give 3 also -- with N, it is important to feed when they get the shot and they need to eat about a spoonful ~1oz) HI PHOEBE.. THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL OF THE INFO..This sentence i don't quite understand...
Just so you know... Tommy has no problem eating at all........... i can't seem to give him enough.. and he definitely eats before i give the shot..
Are you saying if he is under 200 not to shoot at all?.. and then check again at bed and then shoot..? and that every morning he should be given 2.5u or just the first morning.. and when you said make the meals a bit smaller to give 3 also... what does the 3 reference?
Will i need to do a bg reading 3x a day all the time.. before his shot..
I also think it might be a good idea to have him checked for any other infections.. Like i said earlier, i'm afraid his UTI is back...
Oh and i just checked him about 20min.. ago.. reading up to 438 tonight....arrrrrrrghhhhh!!!
Thanks again Phoebe, I'll keep in touch..
 
Ok - yes, you got most of it ---- test before every shot, and give food with every shot

If you test at +8 (new shot time), and blood sugar is over 200 -- give 1.5u

some mid-cycle tests would help out too --- test at +4 or so.

IF..... BG is less than 200 at the +8 shot time -- then wait 30 minutes and test again. If Tommy's BG has increased by AT LEAST 20, then ok to shoot.

When I was shooting Norton TID -- about every third day, he would be in the green at shot time - so we would delay that shot

So... he ended up getting shots kind of like this:
Day 1: +8 +8 +8
Day 2: +8 +8 +8
Day 3: +12 +9
Day 4: +8 +8 +8
and so on

we were testing between 4 and 6 times per day

Another thing to consider that works for HUMULIN N or PZI ONLY --- NO Lantus or Levemir (warning to other readers) ---
developing a sliding scale for Tommy
A sliding scale is for adjusting the dose based on BG at test /shot time. So -- if BG is high - give a bigger dose. If BG is low - give a lower dose.
!!!This possibly frequent changing of dose does not work for Lantus and Levemir!!!

The sliding scale is developed by examining Tommy's spreadsheet and seeing how he responds to insulin -- and defining doses accordingly.
If you are interested in trying this, we can work out an initial scale.

Or if you want to start with TID for a week or two and see how that works -- that is great too.
 
Question...why TID dosing of when when there are other easier insulins available that require only BID dosing and less testing? I have never thought that TID dosing would feel great for the avg cat...
 
Though I have not done TID myself, I think the idea is that spreading a day's dose over 3 doses vs two doses can actually be more gentle. Just like spreading a day's dose over two shots than one is more gentle. Judging by the recent TT topic this may not be an advisable idea at this juncture with Lantus or Levimir. But with PZI/ProZinc it has worked wonders on occasion - including leading to remission.

Now whether or not the additional testing is fun for the cat is another topic.
 
@Jen
we're discussing what she can do NOW to help her cat feel better.

Not everyone can walk out the door and buy a different insulin.

We have to have a prescription for Levemir or Lantus (vet visit), and it costs more here than in Canada.

My vet refused to prescribe Lantus or Levemir for years because she didn't know enough about it. When she got a new patient already on Lantus - she finally did her homework and realized it was good stuff -- in 2009.


I agree - it would be terrific if she could get Tommy started on one of the L's, but it takes a bit of time to coordinate -- even if someone lives up the street and hands her a free cartridge.
 
Fair enough on the not necessarily being able to switch

Gator, I do not think that N is as nice to do TID with as PZI...quite a different action altogether. depending on the cat, might work well (overlap) or not (rollercoaster)
 
hey Phoebe, I was just checking in and wanted you to know that Tommy was 258 this afternoon so i gave him 1.5u.. No matter what his number is tonight, i should give him 1.5u right? That's going to make 5.5U for the day..
I'm not to give him 2.5u tomorrow morning am i?.. That was just for Day 1.. Just wanting some clarification..Sorry again if i'm sounding like such a dope..
And given my schedule i don't think it will be possible to always test 4-6 times a day..
We'll be taking Tommy to a new Vet next week to find out what's going on and to hopefully get his insulin changed to Levemir.. I saw what you said about not doing TID with that one.. but i am going to try and TID with the humulin until then.. keep you posted..
 
Hi - agree - from now with 8 hour shots -- stick with 1.5u but do please post preshot numbers and try to get some mid cycle tests - like +4 or +3 or +5

If you need to increase the time -- let's say go back to 12 hours for a few days -- increase the shot accordingly
so the daily total amount is similar.

With a prescription, you can order Lev from Canada online for cheaper than buying in the U.S.
There is a thread in the SUPPLY CLOSET about ordering from Canada.

I live close enough to drive (35 miles from border), so I can buy at their pharmacies -- last two purchases were $120 and $110 for a 5 pack of Levemir. I have taken along my prescription "just in case" I get questioned about it at the border.

When ordering from the Canadian pharmacies, they only charge $10 shipping, so that is not too bad.

Since Levemir does not go bad -- one 3ml cartridge of 300 units lasts Tiggy several months, so a 5 pack is enough for about a year and a half.

I'm sorry - I forget -- did you post your location? (city/state) maybe someone nearby can sell or give you one cartridge.
 
By the way - in case it wasn't clear ...

with TID dosing, we will be taking advantage of overlapping the effective time of the insulin.

So - today, Tommy went from 451 to 258 and you gave a little shot at 258 before he is back on the moon.
this next cycle, he may go 258 down to 100 and back to 250 in 8 hours --

please post, ok? Maybe start a new thread because this one is getting very long
 
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