? If you have changed insulin

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apple

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Did you start at a beginning dose of .5u on the new insulin? Or start at a dose similar to the insulin previously used? Or something else?

When you changed insulin, did you wait a dose to let the previous insulin decrease in the body before starting the different insulin.

The vet and I discussed changing insulin.....

Thank you in advance.
 
apple said:
Did you start at a beginning dose of .5u on the new insulin? Or start at a dose similar to the insulin previously used? Or something else?

When you changed insulin, did you wait a dose to let the previous insulin decrease in the body before starting the different insulin.

The vet and I discussed changing insulin.....

Thank you in advance.
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We generally recommend you start on a similar dose to the one you were previously giving. Of course, ECID. Are you considering switching to Levemir? If so, you would simply switch at the next shot time.

Why are you talking about switching? Are you not happy with the results you are seeing? Do you have a spreadsheet set up? Maybe we can help.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
We generally recommend you start on a similar dose to the one you were previously giving. Of course, ECID. Are you considering switching to Levemir? If so, you would simply switch at the next shot time.

Why are you talking about switching? Are you not happy with the results you are seeing? Do you have a spreadsheet set up? Maybe we can help.
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I'm not happy with how it makes my cat feel.

Between 45 to 60 minutes after injection he looks and feels crummy. I've held all things constant and it's the meds, like clock work. I take a cat that is happy, active, participating in life and he looks crummy, doesn't move.

In discussion with vet about what to switch to. He thinks one brand, I think another. I'm going to read about the one he wants and I will do the same about what I want.

I'm working on the spreadsheet. The colors give me a migraine when I look at them, so it's taking awhile to fill in the sheet. I can only do it a few minutes at a time before the migraine starts.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
The problem may not be the insulin. It may be his numbers. It is unusual for insulin to make a cat feel poorly.
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More information please, I don't understand the statement.

When we test, he's happy, helping and active. Like clock work, he feels crummy after the shot. That's the only variable left. If I stall or move the shot to a different time, same result.

It's extremely difficult to take a cat that is happy and give him a shot knowing he will be uncomfortable for many hours.

Spreadsheet- it's filled in up to may 4. He seems to be a pink kitty with a few yellows thrown in, a blue here and there.
 
It could be that he feels crummy 60mins after the shot because the previous shot has wore off and the new shot didn't onset yet. Or, if you are feeding him a big meal with the shot, it could be a sign he isn't processing the food correctly, many sugar kitties have pancreas issues and small meals spread throughout the day are better than a couple of big meals. Rule of thumb when switching from Lantus to Levemir is about 70%. Here is an old thread about cats that switched from lantus to levemir: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/attention-lantus-to-levemir-users.122941/
 
Bronx's dad said:
It could be that he feels crummy 60mins after the shot because the previous shot has wore off and the new shot didn't onset yet. Or, if you are feeding him a big meal with the shot, it could be a sign he isn't processing the food correctly, many sugar kitties have pancreas issues and small meals spread throughout the day are better than a couple of big meals. Rule of thumb when switching from Lantus to Levemir is about 70%.
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I agree. It would help to know what his BG number are. Can you give me us a rundown of the last day or two?
 
Sat
7.26 310
7.16p 301
Sun
7.16 301
6.19p 374
Mon
6.08 329
4.37p 293
6.27p 331
Tues
6.23 328
5.08p 350
 
While you cant read numbers, it will show color pattens.
 

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If I remember right you were interested in switching to ProZinc. I switched from ProZinc to Lantus and have been generally happy with the results. He is more alert too but he does sleep after each meal.
Question for the pros: How does the depot play a role in switching to a faster acting insulin like ProZinc?
 
Those blues look good. Can you test at night at all? Many cats go lower at night than they do during the daytime.

There isn't a ton of info there, but the one thing I notice is he seems be bouncing. A high BG can definitely make him feel lousy. I do wonder if Bronx's Dad's idea might be right - he feels worse right before onset. How long does he seem to be feeling poorly? Does he feel better within an hour or so?
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Those blues look good. Can you test at night at all? Many cats go lower at night than they do during the daytime.

There isn't a ton of info there, but the one thing I notice is he seems be bouncing. A high BG can definitely make him feel lousy. I do wonder if Bronx's Dad's idea might be right - he feels worse right before onset. How long does he seem to be feeling poorly? Does he feel better within an hour or so?
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He feels crummy for hours. He starts to feel better before the next injection.

He does not feel better within an hour or so of injecting.

It's ironic that you put numbers and feeling at lower = better. He seems to be the opposite. This evening, before testing, he looked and acted like he was close to his old self. I'm always surprised when it is upper 300s because he usually is alert and active, vocal, chipper. More like his old self than when at llower numbers.

Blue- deceiving. .....he was dropping quickly and was fed to raise numbers. The times look like one hour apart, and they are not. The numbers were taken in quick succession.

I don't think he should feel this poorly after insulin.
He should feel better.
 
Sometimes, a cat that has been running high for a long time feels worse when his numbers start to come down. It's because his body isn't used to the new numbers. As he runs in the lower numbers more, his body will adjust to them and he'll feel better, if that is what is causing this.

Once you get the Spreadsheet completed and share it, we can show you how to put numbers in the same cell to indicate they were taken during the same hour period.
 
StephG said:
If I remember right you were interested in switching to ProZinc. I switched from ProZinc to Lantus and have been generally happy with the results. He is more alert too but he does sleep after each meal.
Question for the pros: How does the depot play a role in switching to a faster acting insulin like ProZinc?
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Yes, now the debate has been reopened with vet about which one to try next. We have the time line for when to change, not what to change it too.

If the feline cooperates, I'd like to move to tr as well.
 
StephG said:
If I remember right you were interested in switching to ProZinc. I switched from ProZinc to Lantus and have been generally happy with the results. He is more alert too but he does sleep after each meal.
Question for the pros: How does the depot play a role in switching to a faster acting insulin like ProZinc?
Click to expand...
Interesting. I've never heard ProZinc described as "a fast-acting" insulin.
apple said:
If the feline cooperates, I'd like to move to tr as well.
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Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
TR is for use with the long lasting insulins, Lantus and Levemir. The in and outs have different guidelines, I believe.
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I don't see many, if any, FDMB caregivers using TR with Prozinc/PZI today, but there was a time on the FDMB when it was used frequently... long before we used TR with Lantus or Levemir.

One of the beauties of following TR with an in and out insulin like Prozinc/PZI is you can switch to TR when you're around to monitor (think weekends) and then use conventional methods during the week when you're away from home... without skipping a beat. If you're interested in TR with Prozinc/PZI, there are other feline diabetes websites that specialize in TR available on the 'net.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
I don't see many, if any, FDMB caregivers using TR with Prozinc/PZI today, but there was a time on the FDMB when it was used frequently... long before we used TR with Lantus or Levemir.

One of the beauties of following TR with an in and out insulin like Prozinc/PZI is you can switch to TR when you're around to monitor (think weekends) and then use conventional methods during the week when you're away from home... without skipping a beat. If you're interested in TR with Prozinc/PZI, there are other feline diabetes websites that specialize in TR available on the 'net.
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I admit I know very little about Prozinc. This is good info. Thanks, Jill.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Interesting. I've never heard ProZinc described as "a fast-acting" insulin.


I don't see many, if any, FDMB caregivers using TR with Prozinc/PZI today, but there was a time on the FDMB when it was used frequently... long before we used TR with Lantus or Levemir.

One of the beauties of following TR with an in and out insulin like Prozinc/PZI is you can switch to TR when you're around to monitor (think weekends) and then use conventional methods during the week when you're away from home... without skipping a beat. If you're interested in TR with Prozinc/PZI, there are other feline diabetes websites that specialize in TR available on the 'net.
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It is undecided what he would switch to. TR would be used with lev if we go that route. I'm still mentally processing it all.....reading and discussing with the vet.

It is a lot to take in he needs insulin, learn about it and then try and decide what to change to, when where how etc.....my head may implode soon, or just stick my head in the sand.
 
This am he was a happy little guy. 45 min after injection he is miserable.

Ideas for determining if it is something else?
 
Oh well.
Was just a thought, it would be interesting to see what Apple's BG is when you notice him feeling unwell sometime after the shot, wondering if it may be related to BG dropping to a range that Apple may not be used to.

Maybe next time eh?
 
Gill & George said:
What is your feeding schedule with Apple now? Are you just feeding at shot times?
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Feeding
He is allowed to graze. He's not food driven, fussy eater and food allergies. I'm happy when he self feeds.
I have a month to try and get him settled on a new routine. I'm hoping to find a food that would make him agree to timed meals. ......we'll see.
 
Gill & George said:
Oh well.
Was just a thought, it would be interesting to see what Apple's BG is when you notice him feeling unwell sometime after the shot, wondering if it may be related to BG dropping to a range that Apple may not be used to.

Maybe next time eh?
Click to expand...
Sometimes it's higher, sometimes it's lower .....
 
apple said:
Sometimes it's higher, sometimes it's lower
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looking at the picture you posted of the ss, it doesn't look like that there are many tests at that particular time, that's why I asked. If it were me in this time before you make the insulin change, I would take his BG whenever he is behaving lethargic/yucky, it might even be interesting to see where his BG is when he is feeling good. Don't know what time period the pic you posted is for. But possibly, what would be more of a priority for now is to get the last week or two's numbers in and posted, you can add the others at your leisure. That way you will be able to get a better level of help, sooner, for Apple.
We are wondering at large fluctuations in BG, higher and lower, is not really specific enough to make any sort of comment on.
Hope you are able to get the SS shared and running as that can really be helpful, there are many members who have a lot of experience in deciphering them.
apple said:
Feeding
He is allowed to graze. He's not food driven, fussy eater and food allergies. I'm happy when he self feeds.
I have a month to try and get him settled on a new routine. I'm hoping to find a food that would make him agree to timed meals. ......we'll see.
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Does he eat just after you shoot?
Does he eat in the 2 hours preceding amps /pmps?
 
Does he eat just after you shoot?
Does he eat in the 2 hours preceding amps /pmps?

Eating: eating is all over. When we started, vet said, test, inject, feed. He didn't always want to eat, I'd worry his bg would drop and force feed.

Reading here, it's test, eat, inject. Wanting him to self feed as much as possible, there can be a lag between testing and injecting. Starting later in the ss, I've been noting injection times.

Sometimes he eats before testing am/pmps. More often am than pm. Because of other medical things, he can't do two hours of no food right now. When we get up in the am, first thing I do is test the kitty. There isn't 2 hours between getting up and testing to pull food. When he eats, it wakes me up, so I have an idea when he's eating in relating it to testing.

His directive per vet is to eat.

Some days, he has nothing for hours before testing.
 
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One solution to not being able to pull the food two hours before shot time is to get a time feeder. I see you are already considering it from your post above. Many of us use the Petsafe 5 Meal Feeder. That worked great for us - you leave the last dish empty and set it to turn to it two hours before shot time. Of course, first you have to get him used to eating out of it, and with some cats that's a bigger challenge than others. I was lucky in that mine were so interested in the food that they didn't mind the noise, etc. It was fun watching Cinco go running across the room, waking from a sound sleep when the feeder turned!
 
Well, he's decided to prove me wrong. After his pm shot (+1) he's still happy.

Factors that may affect his happy:
He's high 375 pmps
He's not wanting to eat....
My mom spent the day with him.....
She let him eat crunchies.....
 
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