? I seem to have no idea what I am doing or where to start

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UKGinger said:
I am in NW London.
Re: the vet, mostly they are kind and friendly, however so far have seen 4 different vets, 2 were positive and of the others, one who is very sweet (and new) has twice mentioned euthanasia, and the other was very abrupt and just left the room after the consult without speaking. I get the impression they think I am keeping him alive needlessly, and I am wondering if they are right.

It seems so difficult to find the right vet. Over the years we have almost exhausted the local options, for various reasons, and I liked this one for their kindness when my other boy was at the end of his life, although he never had treatment there they were so kind to him.

I just wish someone could take care of him until there was an improvement because I am just not getting it right, the stress I feel must be affecting him too.
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It is difficult to find the right vet, there's no denying that. Vets don't have much training in FD so it's often an uphill struggle finding ons who is clued-up enough to give you the support you need and deserve.
I honestly don't think you're keeping him alive needlessly... if he was suffering that's one thing, but he is probably more uncomfortable than anything else because he's not on the appropriate dose of insulin.
This community is a lifesaver in more ways than one so I encourage you to stick around and see what other members have to say about their FD journey... there are some not dissimilar to yours.
I think some moral support would help you too and I'm going to tag one of our members in your area who might just be able to help with suggestions for vets, how to home test, etc ... @Zee I don't think she's on the board much but I'll PM her and ask her to look in.
Please don't give up!
 
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Diana&Tom said:
It is difficult to find the right vet, there's no denying that. Vets don't have much training in FD so it's often an uphill struggle finding ons who is clued-up enough to give you the support you need and deserve.
I honestly don't think you're keeping him alive needlessly... if he was suffering that's one thing, but he is probably more uncomfortable than anything else because he's not on the appropriate dose of insulin.
This community is a lifesaver in more ways than one so I encourage you to stick around and see what other members have to say about their FD journey... there are some not dissimilar to yours.
I think some moral support would help you too and I'm going to tag one of our members in your area who might just be able to help with suggestions for vets, how to home test, etc ... @Zee I don't think she's on the board much but I'll PM her and ask her to look in.
Please don't give up!
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PS just done a search and Zee is def in your area -Hampstead Garden suburb - so hopefully she will respond and you might feel a little less alone... we're all here for you anyway but it's great to have someone local to you who you can really relate to :)
 
Zee said:
Greetings. I’m so sorry you’re struggling... so was I! I’m in NW11 so if you feel like it send me a message...
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Thank you. Right now I need to pull myself together, I don't feel I can return to the vet after today, felt really judged. I have been in bits all day, don't feel I have any fight left.
 
Kate has said it all - you can do this. We totally understand how stressful and emotional it is, and how exhausted you feel. Be kind to yourself, get all the help that's available here, PM Zee who presumably lives near you if you want to discuss vets or anything else. And remind yourself that you're doing this for your boy who can't look after himself so he looks to you to do your best for him.

Breathe... so many people have been where you are, you are far from alone...
 
Greetings Darling Lou... sweet of you to say.. I’m currently glued to our tv screens watching our own political drama with our very own Blonde leader dragged back to parliament by our Supreme Court!
If it wasn’t so serious I’d be laughing..

How are you?? Mum and Eric are also divided and spitting at each other..
Eric the terrible was displeased by something I must have done and went for my ankles as I went past.. I do love that boy... Mum’s pottering around - sort of stable and it’s fine by me..
much love for now.
 
I am so sorry you are having all this trouble with your vets.
It is very upsetting and disheartening when they make you feel they are judging you. That makes me feel angry and I think is unprofessional
I find some vets are far too quick to suggest euthanasia......I can think of at least three cases recently where that was suggested and now the kitties are back to good health.

You are getting lots of great support from other UKers and others, and you are doing a marvellous job looking after that beautiful ginger boy.
I think a change of insulin will help a lot and maybe a change of vet. You need a vet who will work with you and who wants to help Big Fella not hinder him.
I am so glad Zee lives near you and can help and support you.
All the best to both you and Big Fella.
 
Don’t wish to ‘bombard’ Uk Ginger with advice... I do remember being overwhelmed at the beginning and actually stopping reading on this site...

Sometimes you need to find your own way.

One thing I will suggest to Uk Ginger which helped immensely with injecting - get the scarf of Ginger’s neck shaved...
Mum often looks like an elderly punk but it so much easier all around - and she doesn’t care..
 
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Still failing with the insulin, he has started to get bitey and so many needles being bent. I tried the higher does and it knocked him out (what I could get into him anyway) and last night another fur shot so ended up just giving him one unit because I knew none had gone in but he was meant to be on a lot more.

This morning he was waiting for me at the door when I got up, he doesn't do that when he is on a higher dose. Still lots of pees overnight. However I am concerned that he has started to yowl. I leave him with food and after a while he is sitting downstairs in the hall and I hear him yowling until I go down and pick him up. I am concerned because my little girl did this a lot and it was a symptom of kidney problems. It doesn't seem to be a side effect of the diabetes or insulin?

Phoned the vet yesterday, the one that suggested changing the insulin but didn't get a call back until I assumed they had gone home, and missed it. I have also called another vet and think we will be going there but with the latest developments, inability to inject him, and the yowling, I am wondering if the other vet was right and it is time to say goodbye. Ideally I could find someone else to look after him for a while as this is not the best environment for him at the moment, the relief when he stays with the vet is immense, we are all very stressed and none of us are coping with anything, especially me with him.

Any thoughts on the yowling?
 
The yowling could be for any number of reasons. Are you feeding Big Fella multiple meals or leaving food out for him. My girl used to yowl something fierce when she wanted food and until they get regulated they are hungry all the time. I understand how emotionally draining it can be when you don't know what they are on about but chances are good all this will improve once you find the right dose/insulin for Big Fella and get him better regulated.

The injections are obviously causing you a lot of stress. Our kitties are very in tune to our feelings and Big Fella may be picking up on your stress. As silly as it may sound, try singing to yourself or to Big Fella when you are doing the injections. He doesn't care if you're off key! It will relax you and in turn relax Big Fella. If you can approach the injections and testing with a "can do" attitude, Big Fella will gain confidence in you and relax too amking the whole process easier on both of you.
 
Hello again... I'm so sorry to hear you sounding stressed and wondering what to do.

It's interesting that the yowling is a new behaviour. It sounds as if he is wanting your attention for some reason. Yowling for no apparent reason can be a symptom of dementia but this sounds very sudden. Has anything else changed in your/his environment that might be making him feel unsettled? It is possible that the insulin dose atm doesn't suit him - what do you mean about the higher doses "knocking him out"? The fact that he was waiting for you at the door when he was on a lower dose seems to suggest that he might feel happier on that dose - did he look better in himself on that dose, would you say? Can you make notes perhaps to provide some clues?

I can understand how very stressful it is. I think I'd try to get an appointment with the other (new?) vet and have a really good chat with them, explain exactly what's been going on and ask for their best advice on a course of treatment. If you can find a way to refine your shooting technique so you can be more confident about how much insulin he's actually getting, establish a plan that starts with a low dose of insulin and increasing as necessary if tests show he needs it, then that might be a first step.

It is overwhelming and we all sympathise. You can only do your best, and I'm sure you want the best for your cat, so as well as seeking vet advice you might also want to think about how you yourself can maintain some equilibrium in all this... that's tricky too, I know. We tend to suggest things that sound rather superficial, like chocolate or wine or scented bubble baths - hardly magic remedies of course, but sometimes if something gives you even a short respite from your stress levels, you might be able to think more clearly and maybe that's your main priority right now.

Do take care.
 
Really feel for you. Your neighbour here... The Royal Veterinary College did a trial on diabetic cats a couple of years back. You can ask a referral from your vet - certainly NOT CHEAP - but they certainly have the expertise...

Also a small suggestion - get his scarf shaved... it really helps. Zee.
 
Sorry for vanishing. He is with a new vet, but really not looking good. I think the yowling was dehydration which is very likely why I couldn't get the needle in. Vet was very thorough, and very nice. His eyes are a mess, he is barely acknowledging anything to the point where the vet thought he couldn't see. He is in a comfy kennel and looks so sad I felt bad for keeping him alive. He has been through so many vet visits, hospital stays, needles and general pinching and poking and I think he has had enough. A long chat with the vet about what he had been through and why I changed vets (twice) and he could see how exhausted we both were. I have to try to get some information from previous vets etc. now.
 
Did the vet say anything about Hypoglycemia?
Yowling would not be a unusual behavior.
The (temporary) eye sight loss occurred to my cat when she suffered severe Hypo incident.
The vision was restored soon after.
@UKGinger
 
Consultation was about an hour. They phoned soon after we left to say that is BG was off the scale. He looked dreadful when we left him.
 
I am so sorry that your lovely boy has gone through so much. It can't be much fun. But please don't give up yet - in the hands of a good caring vet who wants to prolong life where possible, amazing turnarounds can happen. Try to stay strong yourself and do please give him lots of TLC... whatever happens next, he needs to know he is loved...
 
Well done, you're doing brilliantly and giving him your all and the best possible chance. I hope with him being at the vet you get some rest and respite.
Toby would yowl when he had DKA, and dehydration, so if it's that the vets will know soon. He is absolutely in the best possible place.

For now, get some rest, gain some strength and give yourself a huge pat on the back and hug for being the best thing in Big Fellas life. Sending you both my very best wishes x
 
Today his BG is no longer unreadable and has gone down to 29.8, he is eating MD diet.

He still seems to find it painful to have his skin pinched and injections, I told the vet about how it seemed to begin, which was a couple of weeks ago, firstly when I seemed to catch him when I injected him but mainly after one of the vet visits (I think one where he stayed in as we couldn't get back to pick him up) and the nurse insisted on showing me how to get hold of his skin and was continually pinching him for a good few minutes until he lost his temper with her. He has never been a bad tempered cat, always so gentle until then. Followed by the painful injection of Vit B given by a surly vet that walked out of the room after she had done and left me with a trainee nurse, he yelled a lot during that.

He is on pain relief, a/bs, fluids and they have received some of his records from the many places he has been treated since May.

It has been a long time since I have found a practice like this one.
 
Glad to hear BG has come down some. Unfortunately, these little critters have good memories and you are probably dealing with the fallout from the bad vet visit. Have you tried using low carb treats to help Big Fella associate shots with something good? Give him a treat before and after every shot whether successful or not so he starts to look forward to the treat. Bribery can do wonders.
 
He doesn't like low carb treats so I will struggle with that.

My current concern is that I will be bankrupt due to the cost of the next 3 days. I know I am paying far too much but was desperate to help him and they know this. I have researched the vet and also the Panorama programme on Medivet which is giving me more concern. This was the last vet on my list and I had avoided it in the past so while it seems that they are doing their best for him it comes with a cost and a lot of concern. The vet seems very caring and thorough, but I do admit to some concerns. However, I have had concerns with other practices and I can't let my cat suffer or be PTS because of it.

Did anyone here see 'It shouldn't happen at a vets'? it was in 2010 and I believe the vet I am seeing is the one that was suspended.
 
If he doesn't like low carb treats, what about little pieces of ham or cheese? The idea of a reward is a good one so try some options perhaps.

Unfortunately vets are expensive but you might be able to find ways to delay some of the cost, ask if they will accept staged payments? There may also be some animal charities that have funds put aside for people who want a bit of help - probably wouldn't pay the entire bill but may make a contribution?

I didn't see the tv programme you mention but I've done a quick search and it looks like this:

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/vets-and-clients-criticise-tv-investigation/

It's natural to be concerned but if this vet was the last on your list and you are happy so far, you might just have to go with it for now at least. Maybe @Zee knows some other local vets she could recommend for you?
 
There is a serious problem with needles. He seems to really be in pain when his skin is touched. Re: the money, this stay is likely to be £1000+ and I can see that it will be as high as they can make it. I contacted the practice a few years ago when I was looking for a vet and something didn't seem quite right so went elsewhere.
 
Diana&Tom said:
If he doesn't like low carb treats, what about little pieces of ham or cheese? The idea of a reward is a good one so try some options perhaps.

Unfortunately vets are expensive but you might be able to find ways to delay some of the cost, ask if they will accept staged payments? There may also be some animal charities that have funds put aside for people who want a bit of help - probably wouldn't pay the entire bill but may make a contribution?

I didn't see the tv programme you mention but I've done a quick search and it looks like this:

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/vets-and-clients-criticise-tv-investigation/

It's natural to be concerned but if this vet was the last on your list and you are happy so far, you might just have to go with it for now at least. Maybe @Zee knows some other local vets she could recommend for you?
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This is what concerned me:
https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-vi...ck-off-for-dishonesty-and-misleading-clients/

https://www.vetclick.com/news/lette...-suggests-more-medivet-shortcomings-p1030.php

I researched the name of the vet, most vets have their name on the practice website, this one doesn't, I only had his first name, but found only one so far with that name. Current practice is not far from where the Medivet branches are located. Additionally the practice is not owned by the vet which is unusual. Nothing I can do for now, other than ask them to contact me regarding costs. It has to stop somewhere.

I liked him for his enthusiasm, his thoroughness. I liked the feeling of not being rushed although I know I paid for the time, and the willingness to answer questions and not treat me like an idiot or assume I knew nothing. I suppose that once someone has made mistakes it can be difficult to start again, and I have no complaints about what I have seen in relation to treatment, but something has niggled me and reminded me that my first instinct about 3 years ago was to go elsewhere. It wasn't to do with the vet though.

I went to Medivet many years ago, never saw the same vet, didn't know much about vets at the time. When it got to my third pet I began to have reservations and when he died in their care I decided I wouldn't go back.
 
Ah, I see what you mean and why you're concerned. A quick search of the vet in question shows that he is now allowed to practice again, and presumably that wouldn't be allowed lightly. Maybe his name isn't on the practice website because he's a locum?

I well understand your concerns but I think you can only stick with it for now and when this stage of treatment is complete, do some serious research into other vets. But then it may be fine to stay where you are - you're happy with how things are going and hopefully the same thing wouldn't happen again?
 
I don't begrudge paying for his care, only ever had one pet insured, so pleased we did as she cost a fortune. Never had the need to keep changing vets before either, had the same one for 8 years until we moved and certainly much cheaper out of London.

We are paying around £400 for each day/night care and there have been many, since his insurance ran out we have paid it because there is only one alternative. Currently we are getting (hopefully) 5* service, phone updates, tests etc. He has a nice cosy kennel with his own vetbed from his carrier which I thought was a nice touch even though he doesn't care, it is clean. I have had dead fleas returned to me in the past in the carrier (not our fleas) and leftover poo smears where they had removed an accident but not turned or changed the bedding after leaving kitty in the carrier prior to surgery instead of a kennel. Previous vets provided clean bedding or at least newspaper. Anyway that's another subject.
 
Diana&Tom said:
Ah, I see what you mean and why you're concerned. A quick search of the vet in question shows that he is now allowed to practice again, and presumably that wouldn't be allowed lightly. Maybe his name isn't on the practice website because he's a locum?

I well understand your concerns but I think you can only stick with it for now and when this stage of treatment is complete, do some serious research into other vets. But then it may be fine to stay where you are - you're happy with how things are going and hopefully the same thing wouldn't happen again?
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He does seem OK, he did ask if I was in the medical profession during the conversation about previous vet refusing a test I asked for, so perhaps will be careful to do things properly. He isn't a locum, he is the only vet which is one of the reasons I went there rather than the vet we used to take both our old cats to. I prefer to see the same vet each time. This is also the closest vet to where we live, and another bonus (I hope) is that their OOH is not at the Queen Mother hospital.

I rely on my gut feeling and I felt OK with him as a vet, it is something else that bothers me.
 
UKGinger said:
He does seem OK, he did ask if I was in the medical profession during the conversation about previous vet refusing a test I asked for, so perhaps will be careful to do things properly. He isn't a locum, he is the only vet which is one of the reasons I went there rather than the vet we used to take both our old cats to. I prefer to see the same vet each time. This is also the closest vet to where we live, and another bonus (I hope) is that their OOH is not at the Queen Mother hospital.

I rely on my gut feeling and I felt OK with him as a vet, it is something else that bothers me.
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OK so you can only tread water for now, as long as you're happy with the treatment being given, get your kitty home safely, we will help you with the diabetes - and find yourself another vet you feel more comfortable with. I'm hoping Zee might know a good one in your area.
 
He has gone downhill, fights the vet and nurse when they try to inject him, he is anaemic, BG is high but they are struggling to get near him to do a test, being the weekend there is only one of them there at a time I think, there are only 2 of them anyway, early kidney disease, and I think he said thyroid too but the phone broke up, one eye has changed. It is not looking good. Vet is taking him off the painkiller for a while to see if he picks up. I think it is time.
 
I’m sorry you’re still going through difficult times with Big Fella :bighug:

Cats can get extremely stressed at the vets and that alone makes the BG go through the roof. If the vet/nurse fights him for injections, even worse.

I don’t know much about anemia, but my cat has also been diagnosed with early CKD in June and he is fine, still living his best cat life! He is not on any treatment for it currently but there are options if need be.

I hope Big Fella will feel better! Lots of hugs to both of you and remember, we’re all here for you, whether you have any questions, doubts or you just need to vent, anything! :bighug:
 
So so sorry for you and puss.. really very unfair on you both..
 
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Georgiana's right, cats' stress from being at the vet can elevate their blood glucose so given the past experiences your boy has had it's not surprising that he's not happy and therefore his bg is high - almost undoubtedly higher than it would be at home. And yes, there are certainly options to manage early kidney disease and probably anaemia (also no experience here, sorry, but there must be ways of addressing this).

Have you thought about trying some calming measures to help him feel less stressed at the vet and therefore have a better chance of getting the benefit of being there? I don't know what vets think about mild sedatives to help, but there are things like Feliway that might make some difference.

I really hope things improve - I know it's easy to feel downhearted and on the verge of giving up, but it doesn't seem quite that bad at the moment.

Sending you loads of positive vibes for an improvement soon.
 
I’m going to stick my neck out here... I do think we’re all very different and our ability to go on in what is a stressful painful dilemma should be a matter for the individual.. we don’t really know everybody’s on here circumstances..

I know that in the depth of my initial dark period (and Mum cat was not as ill as Uk Ginger)
I sometimes stopped reading the forum ... sometimes the helpful wealth of advise felt too much..
Hope not giving offence...
 
Zee said:
I’m going to stick my neck out here... I do think we’re all very different and our ability to go on in what is a stressful painful dilemma should be a matter for the individual.. we don’t really know everybody’s on here circumstances..

I know that in the depth of my initial dark period (and Mum cat was not as ill as Uk Ginger)
I sometimes stopped reading the forum ... sometimes the helpful wealth of advise felt too much..
Hope not giving offence...
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You're quite right, Zee, we are all different it's true and any decision made in a situation like this is a very personal one. I guess what some of us are conscious of is that a decision not to carry on would be, obviously, irreversible, and I have spent many years on this forum reading very upsetting messages from people saying "if only I had done this that or the other"... guilt, even when a decision is justified, is very hard to overcome. Any suggestions we make are mainly to offer the OP some options they may not have considered. They don't have to accept our suggestions, as that is all they are.

All that said, if someone does make a "final" decision that they feel is in the best interests of all concerned, we would never judge - we are still here to support everyone who comes here, no matter what.

We all feel very much for UKGinger and her kitty.
 
He is gone.
He was fading so much there were no options. I had call from the vet and we went in to see him, if we hadn't made the decision he would have just passed anyway.

Thank you all for your advice and support, and kindness. I fought for him since May. He was losing weight for a year. I have some test results sent from when I first took him to the vet but haven't looked yet, maybe they would show something, I don't know. He was my friend for 6 years, he never scratched the furniture, he was a really good cat. He is the third one we have had to PTS since 2016 but this time there is no other cat to help me through, he made our home his home and took over the empty cat beds as soon as I forgot to shut the door and he sneaked in.

Zee, would you like to have the Caninsulin? It was only opened a few days ago and has been kept in the fridge so is fine. Please let me know.
 
Sweet lady thank you so much but I’m ok for Caninsulin.
I can’t tell you how sorry I am.. it’s a hard long exhausting battle you fought for him but seems he had enough. Gained his wings...

Take your time... I always feel we are on borrowed time with our furry friends and letting go is sometimes a kindness.
 
I'm so sorry, please know that you did everything you possibly could and that he is at peace now. Be gentle with yourself. Sending you much love xxx
 
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