Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
It's the grain free wellness right?
I need 'newly diagnosed' diet suggestions
- Thread starter Seven
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Hi guys! Well, 7 is on Prozinc and has been since 4/23. 1 unit at 8:30 pm. He got really sick on 4/12 with some sort of infection and it got really bad. Of course we were fighting the diabetes and the infection(s) at the same time-it got ugly-BG ranging from 48 to not registering on a 500 glucometer in the same day. So this week we checked his BG-343, 353, 370, and 371. This morning the vet changed his insulin to 1 unit twice a day and feed only twice a day. I can't find it now, but I thought I read to feed them small meals more often a day. Am I correct? Or should I only feed him twice a day?
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Is your cat used to free feeding or has Seven been meal fed? A switch can often upset the appetite and cause your cat to not eat. Personally, I would feed according to whatever schedule your cat is used to.
I do not understand why vets recommend only 2 meals a day. That makes no sense to me and I've never heard a good explanation as to why they recommend that.
The one limitation on the feeding we recommend, is to remove all food 2 hours before you do your pre-shot testing. This is so you know the number is a more accurate reflection of the actual BG (blood glucose), not a food influenced number which can be 30 to 100 points higher. ECID.
The idea behind smaller more frequent meals is that
1. It mimics their feeding style in the wild.
2. Mini-meals spreads out the impact of all that food, resulting in more even or level numbers. Your cat is not trying to process the entire large meal in a couple of hours.
I do not understand why vets recommend only 2 meals a day. That makes no sense to me and I've never heard a good explanation as to why they recommend that.
The one limitation on the feeding we recommend, is to remove all food 2 hours before you do your pre-shot testing. This is so you know the number is a more accurate reflection of the actual BG (blood glucose), not a food influenced number which can be 30 to 100 points higher. ECID.
The idea behind smaller more frequent meals is that
1. It mimics their feeding style in the wild.
2. Mini-meals spreads out the impact of all that food, resulting in more even or level numbers. Your cat is not trying to process the entire large meal in a couple of hours.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
The losing weight again could be a reflection of not enough insulin . Or not enough food.
Diabetic cats need up to 50% more food. If there is not enough insulin to process the food, the food simply is passed through his digestive system without getting the necessary nutrients.
Minimum to feed 15 calories per pound +70. So a 10 pound non-diabetic cat needs 150 +70 or 220 calories. A 3 oz can of Fancy Feast typically has about 90 calories, so 2.5 cans of Fancy Feast. A 5.5 ounce can of Friskies has about 180 calories so you need to feed 1.25 cans for a non-diabetic cat.
A diabetic cat on the other hand needs more food until their BG numbers are better regulated. My foster Wink, 10.4 pounds ,was eating 4 3 ounce cans of Fancy Feast or almost 2 of the 5.5 ounce cans of the Friskies. He is still eating 6-8 ounces of food a day to maintain his weight, now that he is in remission. So, his appetite has slowed a bit with the better control of the BG numbers.
Diabetic cats need up to 50% more food. If there is not enough insulin to process the food, the food simply is passed through his digestive system without getting the necessary nutrients.
Minimum to feed 15 calories per pound +70. So a 10 pound non-diabetic cat needs 150 +70 or 220 calories. A 3 oz can of Fancy Feast typically has about 90 calories, so 2.5 cans of Fancy Feast. A 5.5 ounce can of Friskies has about 180 calories so you need to feed 1.25 cans for a non-diabetic cat.
A diabetic cat on the other hand needs more food until their BG numbers are better regulated. My foster Wink, 10.4 pounds ,was eating 4 3 ounce cans of Fancy Feast or almost 2 of the 5.5 ounce cans of the Friskies. He is still eating 6-8 ounces of food a day to maintain his weight, now that he is in remission. So, his appetite has slowed a bit with the better control of the BG numbers.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
I would keep feeding him the 6 meals a day - it keeps his BG more stable.
I am interested in this "dropping to 48" though. Can you set up a spreadsheet for the last few weeks- i would like a good look at his numbers.. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
I am interested in this "dropping to 48" though. Can you set up a spreadsheet for the last few weeks- i would like a good look at his numbers.. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
While 7 was very sick, the vet thought they would fight the diabetes first then the infection. His BG was 470ish then. So they gave 7 1 unit of humulin n and sent him home telling me to feed him in 30 minutes. 7 wasn't eating and he was spitting up the food I force fed him. My fiancé couldn't get him to eat either when he got home so he took him to the emergency clinic. That vet took his BG and it was 48 saying it was that low because he hadn't ate. So the vet started pumping 'sugar water' in 7 and karo syrup. Then when he took 7's BG it wouldn't register. It was over 500. So it was just one big mess. Since starting Prozinc his first reading was 125 then 225 and 250 and now we are in the high 300's. We check him at home periodically. When I noticed the water going quicker and large clumps in the litter box we took the BG more than we had been.
TheBowHuntress
Member Since 2012
Yes, I agree. It makes me nervous just reading about it. If he were my cat, he'd get more like at least 4 meals (two AM & two PM); but not knowing your cat's situation, I am in no way advising you. Mini-meals just make much better sense; meals twice a day can cause your kitty's BG to nosedive, among other things. Please keep us postedSeven said:
TheBowHuntress
Member Since 2012
48 is a real low number; thank God, you took him the the ER. And the vet is correct. It is perfectly normal for the BG drop with no eatingSeven said:
--how long after administering him with sugar/karo, did the vet take the 500+ reading?
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
If you can get a few tests over the next few days we will be able to see what's going on.. Ie
Morning preshot test
Midday test
Evening preshot test
Before bed test
It's always a good idea to do a preshot test to stop you from shooting if they happen to be low, but a couple of days of those other tests will tell us a lot of what is going on. Specifically I am trying to see how low he is going.. That's the number you base dose changes on..
Morning preshot test
Midday test
Evening preshot test
Before bed test
It's always a good idea to do a preshot test to stop you from shooting if they happen to be low, but a couple of days of those other tests will tell us a lot of what is going on. Specifically I am trying to see how low he is going.. That's the number you base dose changes on..
Well I have decided to feed him 4 times a day. It makes me feel better you guys agree.
His sugar was 378 at 5:00 pm today - before feeding and afternoon shot. Is this normal? He had his morning shot at 5:30 am. I'm beginning to wonder if the insulin is working on him or does it just take a few days????????
I'm thinking the BG of 48 was right at 9pm and the 500+ was close to 11pm because we left 7 there right after that reading that night when the vet thought it would be best that 7 stay the night at the emergency clinic.
Thanks for your help and comments. It just seems to be getting more frustrating.
His sugar was 378 at 5:00 pm today - before feeding and afternoon shot. Is this normal? He had his morning shot at 5:30 am. I'm beginning to wonder if the insulin is working on him or does it just take a few days????????
I'm thinking the BG of 48 was right at 9pm and the 500+ was close to 11pm because we left 7 there right after that reading that night when the vet thought it would be best that 7 stay the night at the emergency clinic.
Thanks for your help and comments. It just seems to be getting more frustrating.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
I really think we need to have you set up a spreadsheet and link it into your signature. That way, we can tell more what is going on and answer those questions like this one "
You may need to change the dose. I can't tell that without some data to look at. The 378 this morning is higher than we want to see. Still unregulated. We want to see pre-shot numbers in the low to mid 200's and a nadir above 40.
How to create the spreadsheet and link it to your signature instructions are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 Ask for help if you need it. There are folks here that can do this for you if you need help with the setup.
I'd like to see the most recent week of BG tests on the spreadsheet. U is the units of insulin you give. AMPS is the test in the morning. PMPS is the test in the evening. + numbers are tests done after your pre-shot tests. +2 would be 2 hours after your pre-shot test.
I see you started 7 on Prozinc back on 4/23. I'd love to see that and your meter in your signature.
Prozinc is an 'in and out' insulin. No depot to build up like with Lantus. More of a "what you see is what you get" as opposed to a "what you shoot today, will be seen a day or two down the road".
You may need to change the dose. I can't tell that without some data to look at. The 378 this morning is higher than we want to see. Still unregulated. We want to see pre-shot numbers in the low to mid 200's and a nadir above 40.
You may need to change the dose. I can't tell that without some data to look at. The 378 this morning is higher than we want to see. Still unregulated. We want to see pre-shot numbers in the low to mid 200's and a nadir above 40.
How to create the spreadsheet and link it to your signature instructions are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 Ask for help if you need it. There are folks here that can do this for you if you need help with the setup.
I'd like to see the most recent week of BG tests on the spreadsheet. U is the units of insulin you give. AMPS is the test in the morning. PMPS is the test in the evening. + numbers are tests done after your pre-shot tests. +2 would be 2 hours after your pre-shot test.
I see you started 7 on Prozinc back on 4/23. I'd love to see that and your meter in your signature.
Prozinc is an 'in and out' insulin. No depot to build up like with Lantus. More of a "what you see is what you get" as opposed to a "what you shoot today, will be seen a day or two down the road".
You may need to change the dose. I can't tell that without some data to look at. The 378 this morning is higher than we want to see. Still unregulated. We want to see pre-shot numbers in the low to mid 200's and a nadir above 40.
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
Hows things going? Do you need help with the spreadsheet?
No, I haven't messed with the spreadsheet yet. I'm so discouraged right now I think that will push me over the edge.
Are there any videos on how to inject insulin? I'm gonna have to learn how and want all the info i can see and read on how to do it.
We were told to give the shot in the neck but I'm reading where that isn't the best place. Sooooo where do you all suggest injection areas?
Help.......
Are there any videos on how to inject insulin? I'm gonna have to learn how and want all the info i can see and read on how to do it.
We were told to give the shot in the neck but I'm reading where that isn't the best place. Sooooo where do you all suggest injection areas?
Help.......
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
There are lots of places you can inject ie..
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
? are you getting a preshot test every time? Worst thing you can do is shoot when Seven is low... Also then you need to get a mid cycle test to see how low the PZI is going. Both those tests will tell you how the dose is working and if you need to change.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Since you aren't blood testing all the time, please get and use some ketodiastix and test the urine for ketones, as well as glucose. Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown.
Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes. If you find obvious levels of ketones in the urine, it is a medical emergency. Some cats also will have breath which smells fruity or like nail polish remover.
Glucose in the urine indicates the renal threshold for that cat has been exceeded since the last void. The renal threshold is when there is enough glucose in the blood, it spills into the urine. You might also notice that the urine is sticky.
Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes. If you find obvious levels of ketones in the urine, it is a medical emergency. Some cats also will have breath which smells fruity or like nail polish remover.
Glucose in the urine indicates the renal threshold for that cat has been exceeded since the last void. The renal threshold is when there is enough glucose in the blood, it spills into the urine. You might also notice that the urine is sticky.
Deb & Wink
Member Since 2013
Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better.
Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Profile.
Go down to the location field and enter your country, state/province, and city if you are willing to share that info.
Click on submit to save this change.
Still in the User Control Panel, Profile tab, this time select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
A free form text box appears.
We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)
Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.
Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts.
Would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.
The alternative is to create a profile. See this link on the how to's. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79123
Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Profile.
Go down to the location field and enter your country, state/province, and city if you are willing to share that info.
Click on submit to save this change.
Still in the User Control Panel, Profile tab, this time select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
A free form text box appears.
We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)
Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.
Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts.
Would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.
The alternative is to create a profile. See this link on the how to's. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79123
Wendy&Tiggy(GA)
Member Since 2011
How is 7 doing now ( very cool name btw) Would love to see some more tests to see if we can refine the dose.. 
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