I need help !!!

[Scdal]

For the last 2 days, Phoenix has had low morning readings. Yesterday morning, at 8am preshot was 163. I waited an hour until 9am. It had risen to 181. I went ahead and gave him his regular insulin dose.

So now, I couldn't give his pm insulin until 9pm and by then his BG was 456 and he hadn't eaten dinner. I always give him a snack before bedtime, but he still doesn't eat anything more until morning.

But now his new preshot is 9am instead of 8am. He is starving and I could hear his stomach growling. This morning preshot BG is 171 so here we go again. I read the 3 options on the sticky notes and decided to go ahead and feed him.

It is now 10am and his BG is only 173. If I skip his shot, his BG is going to be around 500 or higher by his evening preshot.

What should I do? Plus, I can't keep moving his preshots back by an hour. He and I both need to eat breakfast and dinner. I can't start feeding his breakfast at lunchtime !!!
It is dangerous for me to have to give his evening shot after 10pm. I mow 5 acres with a push mower and have to mow every other day. I am exhausted by 10pm and he needs to eat before then as well. I am scared I might make a mistake on his insulin dose since I am tired. THIS METHOD IS NOT WORKING !!!

Please, I need other suggestions. Phoenix's BG always rises during the day because he is eating. His pm BG is always falling because he hasn't eaten overnight. This is why his a.m. numbers are low. The longer I wait to feed him, the lower his BG falls. I need help !

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

I think you can shoot, if you feel ready to do so. This is part of the process, moving the "no-shoot" number down bit by bit. 171 is not that much different than 200, so it's a good opportunity. But only if you feel ready-- are you able to monitor today?

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Also, I think you should take the reduction to 6.0U from the 73 the other night (anything under 90 is a reduction under SLGS). I suspect he may be going low at night other times...

 

[Scdal]

It is 11 a.m. here. If I shoot now, doesn't that mean I can't give his evening shot until 11 p.m.? That means I can't give him his breakfast until 11a.m. tomorrow, almost lunchtime? I usually fall asleep around 9:30 p.m. because I am exhausted.

This method is ridiculous. I know you are trying to help but Phoenix will be ravenous by 11 a.m. tomorrow morning for his breakfast. He usually eats at 8a.m. I can't stay up to 11 p.m. to give his injection.

 

[Scdal]

Also, I think you should take the reduction to 6.0U from the 73 the other night (anything under 90 is a reduction under SLGS). I suspect he may be going low at night other times...

I did reduce his dose after that from 7 to 6.5.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

OK. Skip this morning, get back on schedule tonight, then the next time you hit a number like that, consider shooting.

I'm looking at the 73 on the night of 7/16. You were shooting 6.5 then, so that 73 gives you another reduction to 6.0. Perhaps the lower dose will help stabilize Phoenix's numbers, allowing you to shoot more consistently.

 

[Scdal]

OK. Skip this morning, get back on schedule tonight, then the next time you hit a number like that, consider shooting.

I'm looking at the 73 on the night of 7/16. You were shooting 6.5 then, so that 73 gives you another reduction to 6.0. Perhaps the lower dose will help stabilize Phoenix's numbers, allowing you to shoot more consistently.

Thank you, but that doesn't answer my question about continuously having to delay his preshot by an hour. How do people cope with this problem? I don't want to keep skipping injections. His numbers get very high when I do that. I cannot be feeding him his dinner and breakfast at 11 o clock.

 

[Scdal]

OK. Skip this morning, get back on schedule tonight, then the next time you hit a number like that, consider shooting.

I'm looking at the 73 on the night of 7/16. You were shooting 6.5 then, so that 73 gives you another reduction to 6.0. Perhaps the lower dose will help stabilize Phoenix's numbers, allowing you to shoot more consistently.

I see what you mean. I will reduce his dose to 6 units. My vet had told me to hold him at one dose for at least 2 weeks to allow his body to adjust to the new dose. Other people on this website insisted that I was holding a dose for too long. So I took their advice and only held doses for a week before increasing. Now, I am having to backtrack and start reducing his doses. This makes no sense to me.
Increasing his doses so fast has caused a lot of stress and worry including getting up at 3 a.m. when his BG falls into the 50's.

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

Susan,

I love how direct you are. It isn't uncommon at all to increase doses up to a higher level than eventually needed. The reason we want to increase at the beginning is to try to get the cat into healthier numbers faster. The longer the high numbers go on, the more the cat doesn't feel well and isn't as healthy as he/she should be. And the chance of neuropathy setting in is higher, the longer the cat has high BGs. Also insulin resistance may get worse (meaning higher doses needed). I've read when you start a dose at the beginning of treatment, give it 10 to 14 days. However, after that, you can go at a faster pace. These protocols are very good - the SLGS and TR. If Phoenix does have neuropathy - the sooner his numbers are blue and GREEN, and stay there . . . the sooner he may get better!

I can see your side too - it doesn't make a lot of sense, especially if you aren't familiar with diabetes and insulin(s) in general. Even if you are, it doesn't always make perfect sense because so many factors are involved that mess things up (stress, illness, full moon, etc. only semi-joking!) BG testing is our best friend.

With my Tina, I went up to 3 units to finally see good numbers (and thank goodness I found this forum), then began decreasing at a pretty decent rate, until off insulin altogether in 5 months. I've seen other kitties go very slowly with increases, and take several months to ever even go under 200. You are doing good!

No doubt, this is tough and stressful. Do your best to find a balance that suits you and Phoenix - a little give (by Phoenix) and take when necessary. Don't let your health suffer any more than absolutely necessary. If you have to let him run a bit high to get needed sleep, that's ok sometimes.

I hope the 6 unit dose will help!

 

[Beck and Philly]

Could you leave some food out when you go to bed or try an automatic feeder so he can eat a bit overnight?

We are having the same pattern here with Philly.

 

[Scdal]

Could you leave some food out when you go to bed or try an automatic feeder so he can eat a bit overnight?

We are having the same pattern here with Philly.

Phoenix will eat everything I put down all at once. I don't give him dry food but he would eat all of that, too. I think he would knock over an automatic feeder if he smelled the food inside. He is back to his normal weight of 34 pounds. Anymore and he would be overweight.

I have tried getting up at 3 a.m. and dragging myself out of bed to fix a snack for him. That works and keeps his BG up.
There is nothing better than getting up at 3 a.m. and checking his BG and giving him a snack. I don't mean to sound ungrateful but there has got to be a better answer. If you find a solution, please let me know. We are both newbies. There has got to be a senior member with a solution to our problem.

 

[Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)]

There has got to be a senior member with a solution to our problem.

If you need more help than you got, I suggest you change your title: you can use the "?" as prefix and ask a question OR just be more specific about your needs in your title (ex: 07/18 Phoenix .... (and your problem))!
In case you didn't know, we use 911 prefix for emergency only (cat's life in danger).

Good luck with the reducie for Phoenix! You'll see things will get better !

 

[Scdal]

Susan,

I love how direct you are. It isn't uncommon at all to increase doses up to a higher level than eventually needed. The reason we want to increase at the beginning is to try to get the cat into healthier numbers faster. The longer the high numbers go on, the more the cat doesn't feel well and isn't as healthy as he/she should be. And the chance of neuropathy setting in is higher, the longer the cat has high BGs. Also insulin resistance may get worse (meaning higher doses needed). I've read when you start a dose at the beginning of treatment, give it 10 to 14 days. However, after that, you can go at a faster pace. These protocols are very good - the SLGS and TR. If Phoenix does have neuropathy - the sooner his numbers are blue and GREEN, and stay there . . . the sooner he may get better!

I can see your side too - it doesn't make a lot of sense, especially if you aren't familiar with diabetes and insulin(s) in general. Even if you are, it doesn't always make perfect sense because so many factors are involved that mess things up (stress, illness, full moon, etc. only semi-joking!) BG testing is our best friend.

With my Tina, I went up to 3 units to finally see good numbers (and thank goodness I found this forum), then began decreasing at a pretty decent rate, until off insulin altogether in 5 months. I've seen other kitties go very slowly with increases, and take several months to ever even go under 200. You are doing good!

No doubt, this is tough and stressful. Do your best to find a balance that suits you and Phoenix - a little give (by Phoenix) and take when necessary. Don't let your health suffer any more than absolutely necessary. If you have to let him run a bit high to get needed sleep, that's ok sometimes.

I hope the 6 unit dose will help!

T

Susan,

I love how direct you are. It isn't uncommon at all to increase doses up to a higher level than eventually needed. The reason we want to increase at the beginning is to try to get the cat into healthier numbers faster. The longer the high numbers go on, the more the cat doesn't feel well and isn't as healthy as he/she should be. And the chance of neuropathy setting in is higher, the longer the cat has high BGs. Also insulin resistance may get worse (meaning higher doses needed). I've read when you start a dose at the beginning of treatment, give it 10 to 14 days. However, after that, you can go at a faster pace. These protocols are very good - the SLGS and TR. If Phoenix does have neuropathy - the sooner his numbers are blue and GREEN, and stay there . . . the sooner he may get better!

I can see your side too - it doesn't make a lot of sense, especially if you aren't familiar with diabetes and insulin(s) in general. Even if you are, it doesn't always make perfect sense because so many factors are involved that mess things up (stress, illness, full moon, etc. only semi-joking!) BG testing is our best friend.

With my Tina, I went up to 3 units to finally see good numbers (and thank goodness I found this forum), then began decreasing at a pretty decent rate, until off insulin altogether in 5 months. I've seen other kitties go very slowly with increases, and take several months to ever even go under 200. You are doing good!

No doubt, this is tough and stressful. Do your best to find a balance that suits you and Phoenix - a little give (by Phoenix) and take when necessary. Don't let your health suffer any more than absolutely necessary. If you have to let him run a bit high to get needed sleep, that's ok sometimes.

I hope the 6 unit dose will help!

Thank you for explaining the reasoning to me. That makes sense. Phoenix goes low overnight and in the morning before his injection. So sleep is impossible when his numbers drop. I love him very much and he is my number 1 priority. I hope lowering the dose to 6 units helps but wouldn't that make his afternoon numbers climb?
Even at 6.5 units, his afternoon BG climbs to the high 200 and low 300' s.

I have considered leaving his morning injection at 7 units and giving 5 units in the evening. Would that be acceptable?

 

[Beck and Philly]

Phoenix will eat everything I put down all at once. I don't give him dry food but he would eat all of that, too. I think he would knock over an automatic feeder if he smelled the food inside. He is back to his normal weight of 34 pounds. Anymore and he would be overweight.

I have tried getting up at 3 a.m. and dragging myself out of bed to fix a snack for him. That works and keeps his BG up.
There is nothing better than getting up at 3 a.m. and checking his BG and giving him a snack. I don't mean to sound ungrateful but there has got to be a better answer. If you find a solution, please let me know. We are both newbies. There has got to be a senior member with a solution to our problem.

If Philly is above 300 when I go to bed, I don't set my alarm for 3AM. Otherwise I get up, test, feed him a snack, and if the numbers are ok, I crash again. Last night we shot a mid 100s PMPS, so my kind roommate shared in the fun. She tested him at midnight, I got up and tested at 2 AM, she got up at 4 AM, I did 6 AM, and then it was time for his 8 AMPS. He was fine all night, but we wanted to be sure.

I don't think this will last forever as they get more regulated and I can predict more reliably how he'll handle shots at lower numbers.

Hang in there.

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

I have considered leaving his morning injection at 7 units and giving 5 units in the evening. Would that be acceptable?

It's not a good idea because there wouldn't be stabilization. We need to take both cycles into consideration: he went too low, "earning" a reduction from 6.5, now down to 6. You should not give over 6 units either cycle. What Nan said is what the hope is - that the stable 6 units without skipping, may level out those numbers. It's not a quick process either.
Also it is scary shooting a lower AMPS, but after the first time you try it, there's a great chance it will work nicely. It takes a couple hours for the Lantus to onset, and usually kitty will start naturally rising by then. It also helps a whole lot if the cat is cooperative with the food timing. After numbers start balancing out, and coming down, you will eventually look forward to shooting a green number.

Lantus really is a 24 hour insulin - for humans. It's purpose is keeping numbers level, even though there are small dips during the cycle. Cats systems are a lot speedier than ours (real scientific I know), and require twice daily dosing. Still - as you keep traveling this road, you'll see the process does get easier and more predictable.

When I first bought a Cat Mate auto feeder, my cats were all over that thing, and I just knew it wouldn't work. Maybe I was lucky, but they eventually quit trying to get in it. And then I only used it for Tina in a separate room. Helped me leave the house for a while since I was feeding her several small meals.

I do feel for you. I lost a lot of sleep, but actually learned how to wake up, test (fed at 3am for quite a while), and go right back to bed. Still we all know that isn't great for our health, especially long term. A before bed BG test can be very helpful, and you might be able to give a bit higher carb food than usual so you won't have to get up or worry. This is a challenge for sure

OK. Skip this morning, get back on schedule tonight, then the next time you hit a number like that, consider shooting.

I'm looking at the 73 on the night of 7/16. You were shooting 6.5 then, so that 73 gives you another reduction to 6.0. Perhaps the lower dose will help stabilize Phoenix's numbers, allowing you to shoot more consistently.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

In addition to what Jan noted regarding a different dose in the AM vs PM, the big factor to keep in mind with Lantus is that it is a depot-type of insulin. Holding the dose for a minimum of 3 days (like with TR) allows any change in dose to stabilize. If you give a different amount of insulin at each shot time, the depot never levels out and you end up with wonky numbers.

What you are likely seeing is that Phoenix's numbers are dropping later in the PM cycle and are lower than your current comfort level for shooting at AMPS. If you look at the says you shot (7/8) or stalled and then shot (7/17), the reason you saw higher numbers by PMPS is that there was a "bounce." Bounces occur when a kitty's BG drops low, drops to numbers lower than what the cat is used to, or numbers drop fast. As a result, a protective mechanism occurs where the liver and pancreas release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones which cause the numbers to spike. A bounce can last for 3 days -- more or less. The more time a kitty spends in normal numbers, the faster the bounce clears. Bounces are hugely annoying for us but are not dangerous and are part of the process. For many cats, holding a dose that isn't bringing numbers down to a better range means. your cat's body isn't getting reacclimatized to normal numbers and treats those high numbers as the "new normal." (Technically, this is called glucose toxicity.) This is why both of the dosing methods we use have you evaluating how effective the dose is by no more than a week.

If you're willing to consider a timed feeder, the CatMate 5 is harder for a cat to break into. There are 5 food slots that rotate and open based on how you program the feeder. Are you spreading out Phoenix's meals? Given a few "mini-meals" rather than feeding all at once may also help.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

From another thread:

Good luck with getting you question answered. I have asked the same question myself several times. My cat has very low BG numbers in the morning because he hasn't eaten. I been told to wait an hour and check again. Most of the time, i have had to wait 2 hours before his numbers rose high enough to shoot. By then, it is 10 a.m. and my cat is starving. Then, it is 10 p. m. before I can shoot again

If I skip his shot, his BG goes up in the 500 range. I don't think anyone is monitoring this forum or helping us newbies with the answers we need.

I hope you have some answer's to your question.

To be honest, ultimately, the goal is to shoot progressively lower numbers. With TR, most of us would work our way down to shooting anything above 50. With SLGS, if you are brand new to FD, you would post and ask for help if numbers are below 200. You want to collect data so you have a reasonable sense of how your cat responds to insulin as you shoot lower numbers. I rarely tell people to stall for an hour. I would re-test 20 min after a lower than expected pre-shot and if numbers are heading up, I'd consider shooting. It can help to remember that you will be feeding your cat and that Lantus onset doesn't occur for 2 hours in most cats -- which is why collecting information and being data ready is important.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

From Philly & Beck's thread:

I have made a decision. Phoenix and Philly do seem to act a lot alike. They both are high during the day and then drop at night. It was suggested to me to drop Phoenix back to 6 units from 6.5. I am going to do this.
But, this is what I am going to do. In the morning, I am going to give him 7 units. He has taken 7 units before and his day numbers were great.

At night, I am only going to give him 5 units. I think this should stop the low numbers. Correct me if I am wrong but 6+6=12. and 7+5=12. I am going to try it. I am a newbie so please don't follow my advice. But I am going to give it a shot and see how he does.

You are lucky you have a roommate to help you. I set my alarm to wake me up at 3a.m. I slept through my alarm and didn't wake up until 6 a.m. Thankfully, Phoenix was ok but this is why I need to get these numbers under control as well.

I would greatly appreciate it if you are going to discuss your decisions about your cat that you do it in your thread. By discussing your cat in Philly's thread, you are, in essence, hijacking the thread.

While you are the one holding the syringe, there are posts above that indicate that your decision is not based on how Lantus best works. Hopefully, the logic that's been presented will temper your decision.

 

[Scdal]

From another thread:

I hope you have some answer's to your question.

To be honest, ultimately, the goal is to shoot progressively lower numbers. With TR, most of us would work our way down to shooting anything above 50. With SLGS, if you are brand new to FD, you would post and ask for help if numbers are below 200. You want to collect data so you have a reasonable sense of how your cat responds to insulin as you shoot lower numbers. I rarely tell people to stall for an hour. I would re-test 20 min after a lower than expected pre-shot and if numbers are heading up, I'd consider shooting. It can help to remember that you will be feeding your cat and that Lantus onset doesn't occur for 2 hours in most cats -- which is why collecting information and being data ready is important.

If you chc

 

[Scdal]

From another thread:

I hope you have some answer's to your question.

To be honest, ultimately, the goal is to shoot progressively lower numbers. With TR, most of us would work our way down to shooting anything above 50. With SLGS, if you are brand new to FD, you would post and ask for help if numbers are below 200. You want to collect data so you have a reasonable sense of how your cat responds to insulin as you shoot lower numbers. I rarely tell people to stall for an hour. I would re-test 20 min after a lower than expected pre-shot and if numbers are heading up, I'd consider shooting. It can help to remember that you will be feeding your cat and that Lantus onset doesn't occur for 2 hours in most cats -- which is why collecting information and being data ready is important.

From another thread:

I hope you have some answer's to your question.

To be honest, ultimately, the goal is to shoot progressively lower numbers. With TR, most of us would work our way down to shooting anything above 50. With SLGS, if you are brand new to FD, you would post and ask for help if numbers are below 200. You want to collect data so you have a reasonable sense of how your cat responds to insulin as you shoot lower numbers. I rarely tell people to stall for an hour. I would re-test 20 min after a lower than expected pre-shot and if numbers are heading up, I'd consider shooting. It can help to remember that you will be feeding your cat and that Lantus onset doesn't occur for 2 hours in most cats -- which is why collecting information and being data ready is important.

On 7/12 and 7/16, Phoenix's numbers headed down both after a skipped shot and after an injection. I am just trying to figure out what to do. I am 68 years old and mow 5 acres with a push mower. You try staying up all night. It states under the sticky dosing methods that you have 3 options for numbers between 150 - 200.
1. Give nothing
2.give a token dose
3.feed as usual, test in a couple of hours and make a decision.

If I test in a couple of hours and his numbers have risen enough to shoot, then I am back to shooting at 10pm instead of 8pm. Then, when he is low again the next day, the shoot time is midnight! This is what I am dealing with.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Susan:

I just went back and looked over the information you referenced. You're correct. However I think the 3rd point is badly written. Here's the logic. If you get a lower than expected pre-shot number and want to stall, you want to be able to shoot as soon as you see that numbers are substantially rising. Thus, you don't want to wait a few hours since ideally, numbers will have gone up and you may have missed the upward turn. In addition, waiting hours throws your schedule off and your cat is more than annoyed and threatening to eat your ankle. The information is clearer in the Handling Low Numbers sticky even though that note was written primarily for TR.

I hear you about getting off schedule. I try to encourage people to stay as close to their shot schedule as possible because it takes days to walk the shot time back to where it's not totally disruptive.

While it may not be ideal, what would you think about lowering the dose a bit? Another alternative might be to pick an earlier shot time so if you do need to stall, it doesn't have as much of an impact on your sleep. Obviously, I don't know if that's possible for your schedule.

What would you think about shooting numbers that are over 150? Of the options, that may be the best.All of your lower pre-shot numbers are above 150. You're not "new" at managing Phoenix's numbers and you collect a good amount of data. It may be time to start working on shooting lower numbers.

 

[Scdal]

If you need more help than you got, I suggest you change your title: you can use the "?" as prefix and ask a question OR just be more specific about your needs in your title (ex: 07/18 Phoenix .... (and your problem))!
In case you didn't know, we use 911 prefix for emergency only (cat's life in danger).

Good luck with the reducie for Phoenix! You'll see things will get better !

 

[Scdal]

The time I got really low numbers, I used the ?? with Please Help Low Numbers in the header. No one responded for hours. When someone did reply, they told me that next time I should use 911 in my header so people would be alerted that I needed help. Now, I get told not to use it. Don't worry, I won't use it again!

 

[Scdal]

Susan:

I just went back and looked over the information you referenced. You're correct. However I think the 3rd point is badly written. Here's the logic. If you get a lower than expected pre-shot number and want to stall, you want to be able to shoot as soon as you see that numbers are substantially rising. Thus, you don't want to wait a few hours since ideally, numbers will have gone up and you may have missed the upward turn. In addition, waiting hours throws your schedule off and your cat is more than annoyed and threatening to eat your ankle. The information is clearer in the Handling Low Numbers sticky even though that note was written primarily for TR.

I hear you about getting off schedule. I try to encourage people to stay as close to their shot schedule as possible because it takes days to walk the shot time back to where it's not totally disruptive.

While it may not be ideal, what would you think about lowering the dose a bit? Another alternative might be to pick an earlier shot time so if you do need to stall, it doesn't have as much of an impact on your sleep. Obviously, I don't know if that's possible for your schedule.

What would you think about shooting numbers that are over 150? Of the options, that may be the best.All of your lower pre-shot numbers are above 150. You're not "new" at managing Phoenix's numbers and you collect a good amount of data. It may be time to start working on shooting lower numbers.

I cut his dose from 7 units to 6.5 when his BG dropped to 79. That was 4 days ago. Are you saying I should lower his dose to 6 units tonight?

As for as his morning preshot, I started out giving his insulin at 7 a.m. With all the wait and test again, his morning shot is now at noon and p.m. is midnight. With me skipping a shot this morning, I am going to give his evening shot at 8 p.m.

Frankly, I am very confused. One person on the forum tells me one thing and then someone else tells me another. My cat is the one who suffers with all the conflicting information.

I still haven't been given a clear answer as to how to handle morning preshot low numbers. If after an hour and his numbers are falling or still low CAN I GO AHEAD AND FEED HIM? And after 2 hours, if his numbers are then ok to shoot how do you get back on schedule when his numbers are consistently low every morning?

It would really help if the senior members on this board would get together on their answers. To Feed or Not To Feed, That Is The Question !

I have been told by others members not to feed if numbers are low and wait and test again. This is how my poor cat has now had to wait until almost lunchtime for his breakfast. I really need some straight answers. I don't need 4 different responses with different answers. I am confused and very aggravated right now so please forgive me.

 

[MamaLovesMomo]

The time I got really low numbers, I used the ?? with Please Help Low Numbers in the header. No one responded for hours. When someone did reply, they told me that next time I should use 911 in my header so people would be alerted that I needed help. Now, I get told not to use it. Don't worry, I won't use it again!

Hello,

I am a new member here, but I just want to share with you my experience also with my Momo.
I saw you are using Lantus. I am using Lantus also for MM. The first vial I used- she was always very high. I only posted half of June here on her spreadsheet. Prior than that was always higher. I was told I can use Lantus up to 6 months.
But- I did some research, and some says may not be as effective after 28 days, some says still good up to 6 months.
I gave a try, got her a new vial, and the result- after giving her same shot, she got better results.
But then, got same problem with you- I have to wait couple of hours because there were times she was at 73 or 90 or 107... then she started to rise after eating- so I injected her dose after couple of hours.
Because of always adjusting her hours- there were times, I have to go home during my lunch break- test her and dose her.
I can feel your frustrations- but, we must need to sacrifice for them.
You can also read the Tilly Diabetes( you can google it). I really like her protocol- so you get some ideas when Phoenix is low. I actually did that for Momo. When she was low, like in her 150+, I gave her half of the dose(make sure Phoenix eats), then if rising after couple of hours( gave Phoenix) the other half...
They don’t really follow that here- but it is all up to you.
You are the one that knows the best for Phoenix.
Also- have you considered maybe getting another new Vial? I know it is expensive... maybe the vial you are using is no longer potent... and maybe with new vial- Phoenix may need less insulin. I am not sure. I am just saying this from my own experience.
Hope it helps...

 

[MamaLovesMomo]

I cut his dose from 7 units to 6.5 when his BG dropped to 79. That was 4 days ago. Are you saying I should lower his dose to 6 units tonight?

As for as his morning preshot, I started out giving his insulin at 7 a.m. With all the wait and test again, his morning shot is now at noon and p.m. is midnight. With me skipping a shot this morning, I am going to give his evening shot at 8 p.m.

Frankly, I am very confused. One person on the forum tells me one thing and then someone else tells me another. My cat is the one who suffers with all the conflicting information.

I still haven't been given a clear answer as to how to handle morning preshot low numbers. If after an hour and his numbers are falling or still low CAN I GO AHEAD AND FEED HIM? And after 2 hours, if his numbers are then ok to shoot how do you get back on schedule when his numbers are consistently low every morning?

It would really help if the senior members on this board would get together on their answers. To Feed or Not To Feed, That Is The Question !

I have been told by others members not to feed if numbers are low and wait and test again. This is how my poor cat has now had to wait until almost lunchtime for his breakfast. I really need some straight answers. I don't need 4 different responses with different answers. I am confused and very aggravated right now so please forgive me.

I also read what you said that don’t feed when numbers are low.

Honestly, I do the best for Momo. If she is hungry, I feed her. A diabetic cat cannot be hungry, and if he is so hungry- his numbers will go very low and is dangerous.
And just 1 question- I have learned all these things because I am always researching, reading and asking wisdom from God- WHICH part of the body you are injecting the insulin? I have read it is more effective if you inject it at the belly or sides rather than the back of his shoulder? If you have some time- read, research... so that you do not get confused- as you said, some told you this, others told you that.
The final decision is on you. You know the best for Phoenix.
Good luck, relax and take a deep breath...

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

Lantus is ok to leave outside the refrigerator for 28 days. If keeping refrigerated, it lasts a very long time, even though I've seen it said to dispose after 28 days of use, even if refrigerated.
To me, that would be a complete waste of money and good insulin. The only time I ever had insulin go bad, was when I carried it in my purse all day long at Six Flags over Texas in 100 degree heat.

I am not arguing with Momo's mama at all. Just giving my experience. I've been taking insulin for almost 41 years and using Lantus since it came on the market.

 

[Scdal]

I also read what you said that don’t feed when numbers are low.

Honestly, I do the best for Momo. If she is hungry, I feed her. A diabetic cat cannot be hungry, and if he is so hungry- his numbers will go very low and is dangerous.
And just 1 question- I have learned all these things because I am always researching, reading and asking wisdom from God- WHICH part of the body you are injecting the insulin? I have read it is more effective if you inject it at the belly or sides rather than the back of his shoulder? If you have some time- read, research... so that you do not get confused- as you said, some told you this, others told you that.
The final decision is on you. You know the best for Phoenix.
Good luck, relax and take a deep breath...

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your excellent advice. I inject in different sites. I try to alternate between the scruff of his neck, his belly and his flank.
I am going to take your advice and feed him at his regular breakfast time each day. I do believe that his numbers are dropping because he is hungry. I feel like it would be better to give him a reduced dose and feed him rather than wait for hours to shoot. This gets me way off schedule.
I will read and research as you suggested. You watch, no one will answer my previous question about feeding if preshot numbers are low. I have asked it numerous times and no one ever answers it. Thanks again for responding. You have calmed me down and really helped me put things in perspective.

 

[MamaLovesMomo]

Lantus is ok to leave outside the refrigerator for 28 days. If keeping refrigerated, it lasts a very long time, even though I've seen it said to dispose after 28 days of use, even if refrigerated.
To me, that would be a complete waste of money and good insulin. The only time I ever had insulin go bad, was when I carried it in my purse all day long at Six Flags over Texas in 100 degree heat.

I am not arguing with Momo's mama at all. Just giving my experience. I've been taking insulin for almost 41 years and using Lantus since it came on the market.

Hi Tina,

I respectfully agree with you. Lantus is very expensive, and appreciate the fact that you’ve been using it for 4 decades. But as far as the researched that conducted based on my readings (factual research- actual people experiences higher numbers in their BG when their insulin is past the recommended date that needs to be disposed, so they advised to just increase the dosage to compensate for its potency and effectiveness.
Since you are using it for yourself- you can justify how you feel after using it after the recommended 28 days.
But as for cats- they don’t talk, we can never know what they feel- only we see the numbers.
Or- maybe, the first Vial I got was already bad. I don’t know and will never know. I don’t know how the pharmacy stored that before I got it. I have no idea- but by reading, constant researching, praying and asking for wisdom- I came to that article and discarded that insulin right away, and now- with the new vial- her numbers are getting better.
My opinion may not be “good” or may not be practical- but if anyone here can afford a new vial- why not?
And if not- then stick to the old ones- we all have different perspectives, different financial situations- we are all different, we just need to agree to disagree.
It is all up to the person on how she/he handles the situation.
Thank you for your input. Take care.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Susan
When you get a lower than normal Preshot the idea is to stall for 20 minutes, don’t feed and then test again after the 20 mins to see if the number is rising. At that point, depending on the BG, you can decide whether to skip, give a smaller dose or feed as usual, test in a couple of hours and decide then based on the BG value, although the third option will throw out the schedule. Post and ask for help. Don’t stall for hours because you will get off schedule and the numbers won’t go up because Phoenix needs to eat.

I’m sorry if no one answered you on one occasion. We do try really hard to answer people as soon as possible but we are all volunteers who lead busy lives as well.
It’s true that the 911 is only for emergencies. If you are stalling write something like this. BG XX STALLING, PLEASE HELP. That will gain attention.
You may get different opinions on things. This is a peer reviewed board which is for the safety of all. Have a look at the experience of the person giving the advice.

I would print off the SLGS method if you haven’t already and make sure you take the reductions when earned and follow the directions. It is actually a very good method when followed correctly.

We all understand how tiring it can be looking after a FD kitty. And sometimes it can be overwhelming. I hope things improve for you soon.
I would post daily so that you can get input and hopefully stop some of the things happening that have been causing you problems.

 

[Scdal]

Hello,

I am a new member here, but I just want to share with you my experience also with my Momo.
I saw you are using Lantus. I am using Lantus also for MM. The first vial I used- she was always very high. I only posted half of June here on her spreadsheet. Prior than that was always higher. I was told I can use Lantus up to 6 months.
But- I did some research, and some says may not be as effective after 28 days, some says still good up to 6 months.
I gave a try, got her a new vial, and the result- after giving her same shot, she got better results.
But then, got same problem with you- I have to wait couple of hours because there were times she was at 73 or 90 or 107... then she started to rise after eating- so I injected her dose after couple of hours.
Because of always adjusting her hours- there were times, I have to go home during my lunch break- test her and dose her.
I can feel your frustrations- but, we must need to sacrifice for them.
You can also read the Tilly Diabetes( you can google it). I really like her protocol- so you get some ideas when Phoenix is low. I actually did that for Momo. When she was low, like in her 150+, I gave her half of the dose(make sure Phoenix eats), then if rising after couple of hours( gave Phoenix) the other half...
They don’t really follow that here- but it is all up to you.
You are the one that knows the best for Phoenix.
Also- have you considered maybe getting another new Vial? I know it is expensive... maybe the vial you are using is no longer potent... and maybe with new vial- Phoenix may need less insulin. I am not sure. I am just saying this from my own experience.
Hope it helps...

You may be right about a new vial. I started a new vial about 3 days ago. Now, his numbers are dropping. I hadn't thought that the new vial might be causing this. I am going to check out the Tilly Diabetes website. I want to learn all I can. I love Phoenix so much and want to do what I can to get the diabetes under control. Thank you for your advice!

 

[Scdal]

Hi Susan
When you get a lower than normal Preshot the idea is to stall for 20 minutes, don’t feed and then test again after the 20 mins to see if the number is rising. At that point, depending on the BG, you can decide whether to skip, give a smaller dose or feed as usual, test in a couple of hours and decide then based on the BG value, although the third option will throw out the schedule. Post and ask for help. Don’t stall for hours because you will get off schedule and the numbers won’t go up because Phoenix needs to eat.

I’m sorry if no one answered you on one occasion. We do try really hard to answer people as soon as possible but we are all volunteers who lead busy lives as well.
It’s true that the 911 is only for emergencies. If you are stalling write something like this. BG XX STALLING, PLEASE HELP. That will gain attention.
You may get different opinions on things. This is a peer reviewed board which is for the safety of all. Have a look at the experience of the person giving the advice.

I would print off the SLGS method if you haven’t already and make sure you take the reductions when earned and follow the directions. It is actually a very good method when followed correctly.

We all understand how tiring it can be looking after a FD kitty. And sometimes it can be overwhelming. I hope things improve for you soon.
I would post daily so that you can get input and hopefully stop some of the things happening that have been causing you problems.

 

[MamaLovesMomo]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your excellent advice. I inject in different sites. I try to alternate between the scruff of his neck, his belly and his flank.
I am going to take your advice and feed him at his regular breakfast time each day. I do believe that his numbers are dropping because he is hungry. I feel like it would be better to give him a reduced dose and feed him rather than wait for hours to shoot. This gets me way off schedule.
I will read and research as you suggested. You watch, no one will answer my previous question about feeding if preshot numbers are low. I have asked it numerous times and no one ever answers it. Thanks again for responding. You have calmed me down and really helped me put things in perspective.

Hi Susan,
@Scdal...

Yes, please read the “Tilly Diabetes” I used to follow another forum, (not this one).. But I left because they always do- sliding scale and my Momo never gets a good number. Then, constant reading, researching- gives me more knowldege than before. I was very new with all this diabetic things. I never knew in my life- one day, I will learn to use a syringe and inject an insulin. All these things- we do for love... same thing as what you and I, and everyone here all doing here- to give our best to our diabetic fur baby.
Honestly— If I know I am right, I follow my own decision. When they say- she was at low numbers like 150 (from old forum) and do not dose ( I did before because I was new in the other forum).. the next shot she is at 591. I got shocked. So, from constant reading and researching- I found out- she may not stay low- she may rise after eating. So, I tested her- after 2 hours she went up like 180, then at her 4+ she was at 300+. So I dosed her.
We just need to sacrifice our times- since I don’t want Momo to be in high numbers- I did sacrifice my time. Constantly testing her if she will rise(instead of me comfortably sleeping at night- thinking she is at 150 and will be good).. But wait.. NO.. in few hours she is at 300+... I don’t want her to have unhealthy and unnecessary hyperglycemia ( Per Kirsten of Tilly Diabetes), so I dosed her...
Honestly- I follow my own decision, even I am in this forum— I know the best for Momo. They advised me to reduce her to 1u- I did follow them. But her numbers went back to 300+-400+ until yesterday.
So last night and this Am, I gave her same dose she had@1.25- and her PMPS is back to 152.
I know the best for Momo, and YOU are the only one that knows the best for Phoenix- if you know you are right, DO IT! That is one thing- no one can take from me. I take advices, why not, but if it is obviously not working- then do what you think works best for you and Phoenix...
You will learn a lot as you deal with this everyday. I still make mistakes...but we learn from our mistakes...
Ps... I am happy you calm down a little..
Relax and enjoy..
Take care and God bless..

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Sienne, Wendy (I haven’t seen her post yet), and I are some of the most experienced members on the board and we are happy to try and get you through a dilemma.

When I look at his SS, what strikes me most is you are stalling or skipping on BGs that are easily shot even under SLGS. Please read the entire information on the SLGS Sticky:

There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.

You have plenty of data; alot of members doing SLGS will shoot any number above 90.

In general, when the BG is safe to shoot, stalling and skipping are for you and not for your cat. Yes, there are some times, especially when a member is brand new to FD or if the member has to shoot and leave, that caution should be given even with BGs in the range that you are skipping and stalling on. He’s had green numbers and so you obviously know how to handle them. I would suggest you start shooting any number 120 or above without stalling and then gradually lower that to 90.

I am going to take your advice and feed him at his regular breakfast time each day.

Bad advice and incorrect solution. What you and she risk is feeding, causing a food spike that you think is fine to shoot, and then the BG tanks. I’ve seen some cats get enormous food spikes so if you feed and then test, get a large food spike, shoot, and then the BG comes racing down.....not pretty. If you learn to shoot lower and lower (above 90), the need to stall and delay feeding becomes a rare event. In five years of my kitty being diabetic, I stalled one time without feeding waiting for numbers to come up.

Pick your shot time that works best for your schedule. Test him 15 or 30 mins before that shot time, if the BG is 120 or above, give his insulin on time while feeding and test at +1 and +2 to catch any dropping numbers. Use food to manage those numbers. I’m sorry you didn’t get help when you needed it but one reason you could use the 911 is the first time he drops into lower numbers (50 or below) and you need help. But please be sure and take it down as soon as someone helps you (I took it off today’s thread). Remember that you are in control of lower numbers with your meter and testing and food so be sure you have a variety of low, medium, and high carb food (the latter with gravy), and some honey or syrup on hand. (i.e. have the hypo toolkit ready).

I would not shoot a different dose each cycle. Just because 6+6=12 and 7+5=12 does not mean it works with Lantus and Levemir. Insulin is a hormone and not a medication so you will not get the results you are looking for if you do that. As others have suggested, you need to shoot a dose, consistently that doesn’t drop him too low and doesn’t cause you to stall or skip. He actually looks the best on 7u but dropping to 6u twice a day for a few days will help see what he’s doing.

The other thing that will help you is when you test. At night, test at +2 every single night and then before you go to bed. If he’s alot lower than his PMPS at +2, you need to realize his BG will likely drop that evening so you need to test again sooner rather than later and give him the food he needs to flatten him a bit. The recommendation for the PetSafe5 feeder is a good one. My girl was very smart and could get alot of things open but she couldn’t get that one open to get food out and she was very food driven.

It’s also helpful for you and us if you record what you feed him and when. Many of us have found that a few minimeals at specific times help.

Instead of getting discouraged, please read as much as you can from the Stickys and Info posts. The Health Index/FAQ has a ton of great info. The things that will help you manage this without so much frustration are:

• knowing his onset, nadir, duration
• knowing how he responds to foods of different carbs
• figuring out (specific to him) when the best time to feed those carbs is
• learning how to shoot on time without stalling and skipping when it is safe to do so (i.e. when he’s above 90).

I also see you are very frustrated on “to feed or not to feed”. That goes back to my discussion above that if you start using your data to shoot numbers above 90, then the “to feed or not to feed” goes away because you don’t need to skip or stall if you will be there to monitor. Again, in five years of FD, i skipped two shots: one was because Gracie didn’t want to come out of the 40s even with low carb food and the second was to take a day off to do something special with my hubby on our anniversary.

I hope this info helps. I’ve thrown alot at you at once.

But as far as the researched that conducted based on my readings (factual research- actual people experiences higher numbers in their BG when their insulin is past the recommended date that needs to be disposed, so they advised to just increase the dosage to compensate for its potency and effectiveness.

Two important things to consider: you are doing research on people, not cats, and the lantus pens, as humans use them typically, are for them to be carried in purse or pocket and thus 28 days is generally it. By refrigerating it as we do and recommend, it extends the life. I can only tell you that we have decades of experience here with lantus and levemir and how long they are efficacious when stored properly in the refrigerator (drawer not door). I always used my pens to the very last drop and my kitty was on a very low dose which meant it lasted months and months. I’ve even used vials to the very last drop. If they are handled correctly in their storage, there should be no reason to not use them until they are empty. Yes, you are correct that you could have gotten a bad vial because it was not properly stored at the pharmacy. Vials should always be refrigerated; early on, I also got a bad vial of Lantus and found it had not been properly handled prior to me purchasing it.

We actually don’t need to agree to disagree because we have the anecdotal evidence from, again decades, of using lantus and levemir. However, having said that, if you wish to buy a new pen or a new vial every 28 days , that is completely your decision. But I would very respectfully request that you be cautious about conveying this to newer members who don’t have the financial ability to purchase the insulin more often than it needs to be. That only serves to confuse them especially in light of our data here).

 

[Marje and Gracie]

So last night and this Am, I gave her same dose she had@1.25- and her PMPS is back to 152.

I don’t like to condo hijack but you should be careful. I respect that you know your kitty but keep in mind that Lantus doesn’t work in a vacuum. When you reduce the dose because a reduction is earned, you can get bouncing for up to six subsequent cycles. Increasing the dose again before you know whether the reduction is a successful one or not can get you in deep trouble with the depot. I see many other things on your SS that cause me concern but I’m not going to further hijack this thread; that info can be given on your thread. But I did not want Susan to get confused over what you are doing and think it’s ok to do the same.

 

[Scdal]

I will try stalling for 20 minutes and checking again. If still low, I am going to give a reduced dose. I think this new vial may be why his numbers are lower. The waiting 2 hours is not a good option for me or Phoenix. He really wants to eat his breakfast on time and not at almost noon. His stomach was growling so loud this morning I could hear it across the room. I really appreciate your help. Have a nice evening!

 

[MamaLovesMomo]

I don’t like to condo hijack but you should be careful. I respect that you know your kitty but keep in mind that Lantus doesn’t work in a vacuum. When you reduce the dose because a reduction is earned, you can get bouncing for up to six subsequent cycles. Increasing the dose again before you know whether the reduction is a successful one or not can get you in deep trouble with the depot. I see many other things on your SS that cause me concern but I’m not going to further hijack this thread; that info can be given on your thread. But I did not want Susan to get confused over what you are doing and think it’s ok to do the same.

Thank you... Momo already past 6 cycles and still high. Actually, per Kirsten- there is no such somogyi effect.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thank you... Momo already past 6 cycles and still high. Actually, per Kirsten- there is no such somogyi effect.

I never said there was Somogyi. Somogyi and bouncing are two very different things.

I was not able to tell how many cycles because Momo’s SS was not updated. If you are doing TR and the BG does not come back to green after any bounce clears, then it is a failed reduction and the dose needs to go back up. There is no indication on her SS or your signature if you are following TR but if you are following what is on Tilly’s then you are doing TR.

 

[MamaLovesMomo]

I never said there was Somogyi. Somogyi and bouncing are two very different things.

I was not able to tell how many cycles because Momo’s SS was not updated. If you are doing TR and the BG does not come back to green after any bounce clears, then it is a failed reduction and the dose needs to go back up. There is no indication on her SS or your signature if you are following TR but if you are following what is on Tilly’s then you are doing TR.

Hello,

Sorry was not able to update, I am still tired from tax season. She was really high after the reduction. Always at 300+. And last night was 484.. that’s how I decided to put her back to her dose@1.25u, and the 6 cycles had passed.

Thank you... I don’t really know what I am following— they told me Start Slow, but I like the TR better since that’s what I have been doing before. So i guess- I am doing TR...

Thanks

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Hello,

Sorry was not able to update, I am still tired from tax season. She was really high after the reduction. Always at 300+. And last night was 484.. that’s how I decided to put her back to her dose@1.25u, and the 6 cycles had passed.

Thank you... I don’t really know what I am following— they told me Start Slow, but I like the TR better since that’s what I have been doing before. So i guess- I am doing TR...

Thanks

We should continue on her thread and I’m going to move these last few posts there. Oops...guess I won’t as she doesn’t have a current thread. The best way to get help is to open a thread in the Lantus/Basalgar/Levemir forum. Hope to see you there.

But it’s up to you to decide which method...not what others tell you to do.

 

[MamaLovesMomo]

We should continue on her thread and I’m going to move these last few posts there. Oops...guess I won’t as she doesn’t have a current thread. The best way to get help is to open a thread in the Lantus/Basalgar/Levemir forum. Hope to see you there.

But it’s up to you to decide which method...not what others tell you to do.

Thank you. Take care.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Susan

I know you’ve gotten some differing advice even in this thread but that doesn’t mean one is wrong and the other right.

Ideally, if you were up an hour or so before his normal shot time, you could test him at +10 or +11 and then at his Preshot time. That will tell you if your preshot is dropping or not. If it’s dropping, 20 minutes might not result in his BG going up. Sometimes, dropping numbers continue to drop until food is given. You can also do this at +10 or +11 before his PMPS.

That’s why I suggest you start shooting the kinds of numbers you’ve been skipping or stalling on. As soon as your shoot, you can feed and then the number will start to rise. Will it come back down after his shot? Possibly and that’s why I suggested you test at +1 and +2 so you can catch it and feed. But it might go up once he eats.

Also, be aware that Lantus can give a second dip near +12. The difference between a second dip and a dropping number is that in a cycle with a second dip, he will have already nadired and the second dip will not be lower than the nadir. With dropping numbers, they start higher at the previous preshot and continue down all cycle so the lowest number in the cycle is around +12.

 

[Scdal]

UPDATE ON PHOENIX THIS MORNING

After a skipped a.m. shot yesterday, I gave him 6 units last night. I checked his BG every 2 hours. His BG dropped until 2 a.m. This is when I fed him his turkey meatball. He usually gets a snack between midnight & 2 a.m. After that, his BG slowly went up.

I think this confirms my suspicions that previously he had built up a lot of insulin in his system. This is what you call the insulin depot. Now that he has depleted it, he is going to have to build it back up.

I have decided that if his preshot number is 170 or above, I will give his full dose and monitor him. If it is lower than 170, he is getting a reduced dose. No more waiting hours for his BG to rise and getting way off schedule.

Thank you all for your help. It was a very stressful time yesterday.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

UPDATE ON PHOENIX THIS MORNING

After a skipped a.m. shot yesterday, I gave him 6 units last night. I checked his BG every 2 hours. His BG dropped until 2 a.m. This is when I fed him his turkey meatball. He usually gets a snack between midnight & 2 a.m. After that, his BG slowly went up.

I think this confirms my suspicions that previously he had built up a lot of insulin in his system. This is what you call the insulin depot. Now that he has depleted it, he is going to have to build it back up.

I have decided that if his preshot number is 170 or above, I will give his full dose and monitor him. If it is lower than 170, he is getting a reduced dose. No more waiting hours for his BG to rise and getting way off schedule.

Thank you all for your help. It was a very stressful time yesterday.

Susan

You have the data to shoot below 170 on time without giving a reduced dose. I suggest you at least start with 150 and then gradually lower it until you are shooting, on time, the full dose he’s on for any numbers above 90.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I am glad you are lowering your number you feel comfortable shooting the full dose, though you have the data to shoot lower. If you take a closer look at the Dosing Methods Sticky Note SLGS section on shooting lower numbers, you will see there are two parts to it. The first part says "Until you collect enough data to know how your cat will react", in other words, when you are new. That's the section that talks about delaying for 2 hours. The second part starts "With experience, you may find that lowering these thresholds may work well for your cat". That second section is more appropriate for you now.

I hope 6 units is a better dose for you now.

@MamaLovesMomo I hope you start your own post on this forum. As you're new to feline diabetes and only been on Lantus since the end of May, I'm sure there are a few things we can help you with.

 

[Scdal]

Phoenix's numbers are now rising even after 6 units this morning. If I had just given him a reduced dose yesterday morning, I wouldn't be in the mess I am in now. It is going to take weeks to get him back on track again. I AM NOT SHOOTING WHEN HIS NUMBERS ARE BELOW 150. My cat is 16 years old. He was doing fine until yesterday. I am not taking chances with his life. My veterinarian is happy with Phoenix being in the 150 range and I am too. I can work on slowly lowering his BG. All the excessive peeing and drinking had stopped. Now he is back to peeing and drinking because his BG is 349. This is not happening again and yes I am upset.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

When my cat was almost 16 (she passed a week short), I was shooting numbers below 100. Age of the cat has nothing to do with it. And as you can see, skipping shots has consequences. It shouldn't take more than a couple more days to fill the depot and get him back on track. Not weeks.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Phoenix's numbers are now rising even after 6 units this morning. If I had just given him a reduced dose yesterday morning, I wouldn't be in the mess I am in now. It is going to take weeks to get him back on track again. I AM NOT SHOOTING WHEN HIS NUMBERS ARE BELOW 150. My cat is 16 years old. He was doing fine until yesterday. I am not taking chances with his life. My veterinarian is happy with Phoenix being in the 150 range and I am too. I can work on slowly lowering his BG. All the excessive peeing and drinking had stopped. Now he is back to peeing and drinking because his BG is 349. This is not happening again and yes I am upset.

First, when you post in capital letters, it is like you are shouting at us It’s not needed

Adding to Wendy’s post above, because you are doing SLGS, there are safety mechanisms built in which will typically keep the numbers from dropping too low. Can we promise? No but it is certainly not as common to see cats on SLGS drop below 50; just for reference, long-term diabetics on tight regulation don’t even get a dose reduction until the BG drops below 40 a human meter.

Second, for you to consider, which does relate to his age is that renal threshold (i.e. the BG at which the kidneys dump sugar into the urine which is not something you want happening) is specific to the cat. We have had some members here track it and their cat’s renal threshold was around 150 (on a human meter). Perhaps Phoenix’s is at 200 but it takes a lot of work to figure it out and if he’s one that dumps sugar at or a little below 150, then you are taxing his kidneys unnecessarily. If, every time he is at 150 at shot time, you reduce the dose, then the numbers will likely go up and potentially trigger a urine sugar dump.

We aren’t trying to push you at all but want you to recognize the issues and also let you know that SLGS was specifically designed for people who want or need to run their cats at a little higher BG than those doing TR.

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

Hi Susan,
I hope you have had a chance to destress some from FD. I want to keep this real simple - start from now/today, and consistently keep up with the 6 units and give the depot time to stabilize, like you know. Anything that's already happened can't be changed. Take it a day at a time (only saying that because I keep trying to do so) and if everything gets confusing - go back and read what the moderators have said. When I was giving my cat insulin, I printed out some of the info given by Sienne, Wendy and Marje, who helped my cat and I tremendously. Others who have helped you are very good too.

It could be a few more days (3-4-5) before Phoenix shows just what a consistent 6 unit dose will do for him. Definitely not weeks for him to get back in line.

It would be really helpful if you could start a new thread, maybe in the morning, in our typical format: 7/20 Phoenix AMPS number, and any morning comments inside your thread. And link this long thread at the top of your new thread. Be sure to ask if you need help with that.
I look forward to your boy's numbers getting better and better